Underrated play by Geno

[-Pete-]

I don't dislike Geno - I want him to succeed. I think he's a step above a game-manager, but hardly elite. Flashes of brilliance, but some head-shaking decisions as well. Average deep ball touch. Better legs than most. Dunno what goes on in the locker room, but I feel like he has leadership respect. I absolutely believe the offense has *not* been designed to maximize his strengths. Teams have won with worse but he ain't getting any younger so I'm still looking for a QB in the draft if a good fit is there. But t won't matter without some stability on the O-line.

As for best offensive player the last two years (if not longer), I'm hard-pressed to look past #16. That dude just quietly gets the job done - often in jaw-dropping fashion (although he didn't have a great day last week - not that it was his fault).

Anyway, Go Bears!

 

[Lagartixa]

don’t recall the year, just recall Russ beating Green Bay in a last play miracle and lots of sad sad Packers fans.
made me cry was so beautiful

Do you mean the NFC Championship Game after the 2014 season, when Wilson first got the team into deep trouble with four intereceptions, with the team going down 16-0 before the Seahawks' punter threw a TD pass for the Seahawks' first score of the day to start a spectacular comeback and the fourth quarter ended with the game tied at 22, and then Wilson got his only TD pass of the game in overtime?

It's a great game and it always gets dusty in the room when I watch videos of it, but I'm not sure it's the best argument in favor of Wilson. Wilson was 14/29 with four interceptions and one TD (zero in four quarters, one in OT) plus five sacks, "good" for a 44.3 passer rating. Not QBR. Passer rating. The one that goes up to 158.3, which was Jon Ryan's passer rating for the game (1/1 with a 19-yard TD pass). At the two-minute warning in the first half, Wilson was 1/8 for 14 yards with three interceptions and two sacks. Yes, at that point, he had three times as many completions to Packers defenders as to Seahawks receivers.

The Seahawks defense and Marshawn Lynch won that game. Lynch had 25 rushes for 157 rushing yards. The defense had a lot of stupid-ass penalties, but between Baldwin's fumble on a kickoff return and Wilson's throwing better to the Packers than to the Seahawks, the Packers had a lot of great opportunities and it's pretty amazing that the defense was able to hold them to just 22 points. Both Sherman and Maxwell had interceptions. Rodgers ended up 19/34 for just 178 yards, one TD, and two interceptions.
To be fair to Wilson, I should mention that his fourth interception, the one in the fourth quarter, was Kearse's fault. Kearse should have caught it, but instead tipped it up for an easy pick. But the other three were not on the receivers. The first interception was also off Kearse's hands, but that one's not on Kearse, because it was thrown too far outside. The one in the fourth quarter was thrown well, and Kearse blew it. But the Wilson-to-Kearse TD pass that ended the game was perfectly thrown and perfectly caught on a perfectly run route.

 

[hawkfan68]

Do you mean the NFC Championship Game after the 2014 season, when Wilson first got the team into deep trouble with four intereceptions, with the team going down 16-0 before the Seahawks' punter threw a TD pass for the Seahawks' first score of the day to start a spectacular comeback and the fourth quarter ended with the game tied at 22, and then Wilson got his only TD pass of the game in overtime?

It's a great game and it always gets dusty in the room when I watch videos of it, but I'm not sure it's the best argument in favor of Wilson. Wilson was 14/29 with four interceptions and one TD (zero in four quarters, one in OT) plus five sacks, "good" for a 44.3 passer rating. Not QBR. Passer rating. The one that goes up to 158.3, which was Jon Ryan's passer rating for the game (1/1 with a 19-yard TD pass). At the two-minute warning in the first half, Wilson was 1/8 for 14 yards with three interceptions and two sacks. Yes, at that point, he had three times as many completions to Packers defenders as to Seahawks receivers.

The Seahawks defense and Marshawn Lynch won that game. Lynch had 25 rushes for 157 rushing yards. The defense had a lot of stupid-ass penalties, but between Baldwin's fumble on a kickoff return and Wilson's throwing better to the Packers than to the Seahawks, the Packers had a lot of great opportunities and it's pretty amazing that the defense was able to hold them to just 22 points. Both Sherman and Maxwell had interceptions. Rodgers ended up 19/34 for just 178 yards, one TD, and two interceptions.
To be fair to Wilson, I should mention that his fourth interception, the one in the fourth quarter, was Kearse's fault. Kearse should have caught it, but instead tipped it up for an easy pick. But the other three were not on the receivers. The first interception was also off Kearse's hands, but that one's not on Kearse, because it was thrown too far outside. The one in the fourth quarter was thrown well, and Kearse blew it. But the Wilson-to-Kearse TD pass that ended the game was perfectly thrown and perfectly caught on a perfectly run route.

Is RW solely responsible for INTs that were bouncing of his receivers' hands? Aren't professional receivers supposed to make catches when the ball hits their hands? While RW didn't have his best game, he wasn't the only one to blame for the first half of the NFCCG in 2014. There was a fumble on a kickoff return too.

 

[Lagartixa]

I do think Geno is a little better than I’ve given him credit for when you dive into the metrics but most of the advanced metrics still put him in the <top 10 range and that’s with fantastic wr room hence why i have him in the next 10 guys grouping. Good for sure, probably not great and in this league it’s really, really hard to make a SB without a great QB. We all know the three or so names like Foles, Dilfer, Flacco although I’d argue he was really good for a time etc

Your perception is not backed up by what's actually happened in Super Bowls since 2000. I previously went and took a look at the quarterbacks who have won Super Bowls in recent years (←←that's a link to it) and found that 14 of the last 23 Super Bowls were won by teams with less-than-great QBs.

 

[Lagartixa]

Is RW solely responsible for INTs that were bouncing of his receivers' hands? Aren't professional receivers supposed to make catches when the ball hits their hands? While RW didn't have the best game, he wasn't the only one to blame for the first half of the NFCCG in 2014.

Tell me, Mr. Reading Comprehension, what you thought I meant when I wrote

To be fair to Wilson, I should mention that his fourth interception, the one in the fourth quarter, was Kearse's fault. Kearse should have caught it, but instead tipped it up for an easy pick. But the other three were not on the receivers. The first interception was also off Kearse's hands, but that one's not on Kearse, because it was thrown too far outside. The one in the fourth quarter was thrown well, and Kearse blew it. But the Wilson-to-Kearse TD pass that ended the game was perfectly thrown and perfectly caught on a perfectly run route.

The fourth interception was absolutely on Kearse. He blew it, AS I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS POST. Watch the video. The other three interceptions were not on the receivers. Kearse was targeted on three of the four interceptions, and two of them were off his hands, but the first one off his hands was thrown way outside, so you've gotta be wearing Wilson's-colon-colored glasses to put that one on Kearse.

 

[hawkfan68]

Tell me, Mr. Reading Comprehension, what you thought I meant when I wrote


The fourth interception was absolutely on Kearse. He blew it, AS I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS POST. Watch the video. The other three interceptions were not on the receivers. Kearse was targeted on three of the four interceptions, and two of them were off his hands, but the first one off his hands was thrown way outside, so you've gotta be wearing Wilson's-colon-colored glasses to put that one on Kearse.

Once I read your first sentence in which you placed the blame on Wilson, it was enough for me not to read the rest of your drivel.

 

[Ozzy]

Your perception is not backed up by what's actually happened in Super Bowls since 2000. I previously went and took a look at the quarterbacks who have won Super Bowls in recent years (←←that's a link to it) and found that 14 of the last 23 Super Bowls were won by teams with less-than-great

Yeah I went through the list and did not come to this conclusion.

Your list starts off by calling Brady good and not great. Seems odd to me?

 

[Ozzy]

No offense but most of the guys you rated as good were elite quarterbacks. Russ in 2013 was a monster and multiple game winning drives, elite efficiency and was one of or the the best running quarterbacks in football that year.

Point stands you need an elite QB or very close to reach and win a SB. I would argue maybe 2-3 of those 23 weren’t elite

 

[NoGain]

Your perception is not backed up by what's actually happened in Super Bowls since 2000. I previously went and took a look at the quarterbacks who have won Super Bowls in recent years (←←that's a link to it) and found that 14 of the last 23 Super Bowls were won by teams with less-than-great QBs.

I'm not saying you're wrong about the "less-than-great QB's" statement, but I can only see five years where a SB winning QB wasn't a top 7-9 or so QBs' in the league...

--Foles
--Dilfer
--Manning
--Brad Johnson
--Flacco

QB's like Stafford and RW may not be considered great, but they were top QB's in the league. I even think Eli Manning might be debatable as at least a top ten QB.

I wonder what QB's comprised your fourteen? That's all.

 

[Lagartixa]

I'm not saying you're wrong about the "less-than-great QB's" statement, but I can only see five years where a SB winning QB wasn't a top 7-9 or so QBs' in the league...

--Foles
--Dilfer
--Manning
--Brad Johnson
--Flacco

QB's like Stafford and RW may not be considered great, but they were top QB's in the league. I even think Eli Manning might be debatable as at least a top ten QB.

I wonder what QB's comprised your fourteen? That's all.

In addition to the ones you mentioned...

Early-career (before he turned 30) Brady, who was good but nowhere near great, accounts for three of them. The debate back then was about Peyton Manning's sport-changing on-the-field performance with bad teams vs. Brady's "game management" and titles on great teams. It wasn't until his age-30 season that Brady had a top-ten-level performance, and he went way beyond that and had the first of a run of seasons at the level of Peyton Manning's peak that would run through Brady's 30s and early and mid-40s. So I split Brady into two. Brady after 30 is obviously great. Look at the press coverage and the debates before his age-30 season, though, and you'll see arguments about "clutchness" and "game management," because those arguing for him couldn't make arguments based on QB measurables for putting him even close to Peyton Manning. And even Brady being on the losing side of the Super Bowl after the 2007 season after a season in which the Patriots offense had run roughshod over the entire league, and the one after the 2011 season, couldn't dispel the idea that he somehow had magic title-winning powers. What's stupid about that is that 2007 was the first year when there were genuinely good arguments based on actual on-the-field performance for putting Brady at the top of the league with Manning, and not resorting to lazy narratives made up by talking-head mediots.

Giving in-his-20s Brady credit for in-his-30s Brady's performance would be as wrong as giving 2015 Peyton Manning credit for 1999-2014 Peyton Manning's performance would be.

And that's my segue to another one who's on the list. 2015 Peyton Manning. 2015 Peyton Manning can't even be described as decent, let alone good. He was downright bad that season when he was on the field (nine starts, ten appearances, 59.8 completion percentage, nine TD passes and 17 interceptions), and the Broncos won despite his awful performance, not because he was helping the team win. I see that as compensation for all the years when the Colts were what my mom called "Peyton Manning and some guys" and Manning did otherworldly things on the field year-in and year-out, totally changing what could be expected of NFL quarterbacks, but still ended up with just one Super Bowl title from his 13 seasons with the Colts. But the point is that while Manning viewed for his whole career is obviously one of the greatest QBs ever to have played in the NFL, he was a bad QB in 2015.

I don't like even mentioning this one, but 2005 Rapelisberger was good, but not great.

Eli Manning was good but not great in 2011, and was... OK-ish I guess (far from great) in 2007. He accounts for two of the Super Bowls

Wilson in 2013 was a game manager on a team that had peak Marshawn Lynch and an all-time-great defense. It wasn't until the second half of the 2015 season that Wilson performed at a top-ten level.

And remember, I've just been talking about the guys who won Super Bowls. There were others who lost Super Bowls who also weren't playing at a great level. Those guys' teams made it to the big game without top-level QBs too.