Turbin trade value + Keeping MRob

[bbsplitter]

I don't get the desire to trade away a guy who's on his rookie contract. He's doing fine, infact I think many opinion on here would be different of him if it weren't that every big run he makes get's called back by some boneheaded play (or tickey tacky penalty call) on the OL. He literally was robbed over 100 yards rushing over the coarse of a season.

As for Robinson, there's no way he's coming back. There are plenty of replacements and at a cheaper price for a position that isn't used that often.

Because there comes a point when the team has greater talent in Ware and Michael that are pretty much the same cost. No doubt they will bring in another RB this year, and keep the talent pool renewed. He may be cheap but arguably he is not worth the roster spot.

PC/JS do value intangibles very highly though. And MRob has A LOT to offer in that category.

 

[DavidSeven]

I doubt there's a running back in the NFL that was one the wrong side of more 50/50 holding calls than Robert Turbin was last year. I almost had to laugh when it happened again in the Super Bowl. "Robert Turbin" rule, indeed.

Anyway, there's no upside in trading away a 24 year old RB who's playing on a 4th round contract and is good enough to be on your roster. I don't think the book is closed on him yet either. Year 3 will tell us what we need to know.

 

[Basis4day]

There *won't be* a lot of running backs like Marshawn. Sorry. Yes, in 2015 he will have a high cap number. But to automatically diagnose paying him as a "Tim Ruskell" move before his time has even come, is just pessimistic. Realistically, maybe he has lost a step by then. But he is a freakish human being and especially with all the new BS safety rules I could still see him making a major impact in 2015.

I think expecting Marshawn to hold up in 2014 and be able in 2015 to justify a 9 million dollar cap number at 29 years old is far too optimistic and defines a Tim Ruskell move.

It is realistic, not pessimistic, to expect him to be released following 2014 when the FO is making an attempt to pay ET, Sherman and Wilson.

 

[DavidSeven]

Because there comes a point when the team has greater talent in Ware and Michael that are pretty much the same cost.

What makes you say that? I understand the case for Michael, but Turbin was once a preseason hero, too. He also ran for 100 yards in an ACTUAL NFL GAME. I like Ware's potential, but what has he shown to suggest he's better than Turbin right now?

 

[jammerhawk]

Turbin has a low cap # and has proven to be a reliable RB. Film on him will prove that if his OLine didn't hold, etc. his yardage totals would be much more substantial /carry. He has real value to me but is now surplus to needs and could be a trade piece. I think he could be worth a 5th from a team that is cap strapped and wants a proven dependable fast (sub 4.5), big (225+) RB at a low price. I just got an exchange of 4th and 6th rd picks from Detroit in a comprehensive mock I'm doing at KFFL.com.

 

[JMR]

Will be interesting to see how Lynch holds up this season. Most RBs who have long, successful careers go off a cliff around 1700-1900 carries and their production drops big time and never comes back. Lynch is at 1753 right now, and his ypc this year was .8 lower than in 2012 but right in line with his career avg of 4.2.

He's going to tote it about 300 times in '14, and we need to be realistic about the expectations on him going into 2015 when he has over 2000 career rushing attempts. Especially when you consider his punishing style, you have to think he's going to wear out sooner vs later. Turbin could probably step in right now and be nearly as effective on the whole, and he just may have to do that at some point as the miles rack up on Beast Mode. I think that probably makes Turbin more valuable to us than what we could get for him in a trade.

 

[Jville]

To date .... Robert Turbin has been used as a spot player off the bench giving others a breather ..... both in the offense and on special teams. He wasn't given an (in season) start and has been limited to 20 to 25 percent of offensive snaps while deployed at various positions. We do see running backs who can not handle that role. Indeed, some who are asked to contribute as spot players ...... can't do it. Backups, who can jump in and compete on the fly have value ... and that is the value of Turbin to this point in his career.

It would seem Christine Michael and Spencer Ware have a lot of work in front of them in their quest to carve out bigger roles with the 2014 offense. I'm optimistic about those 2014 roles. It's unfortunate that Spencer Ware has the added task of going thru DUI procedures. I would think the experience will make him stronger in his quest to be a Seahawk 24/7

 

[formido]

Because there comes a point when the team has greater talent in Ware and Michael that are pretty much the same cost.

What makes you say that? I understand the case for Michael, but Turbin was once a preseason hero, too. He also ran for 100 yards in an ACTUAL NFL GAME.

Russell Wilson ran for 100 yards in a game once, but that's bad evidence he's a better runner than Christine Michael. I suspect as you wildly cheer for Michael's explosive plays in the years to come, and his career yardage pulls away from Turbin, you'll understand why bbsplitter says Michael has more talent. If you do understand the case for Michael then you understand there's a lot more to it than being a preseason hero. Michael was the #3 ranked back coming out of high school, a 5 star recruit, while Turbin was unranked and a 2 star recruit. Despite a tumultuous time his senior year of college, Michael was more highly rated coming into the draft, too, with Mike Mayock advising that Michael was the most talented back in the draft. Players on the team call Michael "baby Lynch". Michael topped the combine tests among RBs, with a smattering of top placements and including a RB all-time combine record 43 inch vertical. A 43 inch vertical is just the sort of thing that makes John Schneider say "You can't go through drafts passing on talents like Michael" after the draft, because he and Carroll know that athleticism almost always wins. And, again, not just a 43 inch vertical standing on its own, a 43 inch vertical belonging to the #3 rated RB out of high school and proven college runner: A demonstrated football player with elite athleticism.

So, there's a lot more to it than just that Michael was 2nd in the preseason NFL in yards per game on 5.0 yards per carry or that he took a hand-off from Russell Wilson and made Green Bay's first string defense vanish on a 43 yard TD. No particular piece of evidence is proof, but it all adds up in a Bayes' rule sort of way. The case for Michael being more talented than Turbin is extremely well-supported.

 

[DavidSeven]

Because there comes a point when the team has greater talent in Ware and Michael that are pretty much the same cost.

What makes you say that? I understand the case for Michael, but Turbin was once a preseason hero, too. He also ran for 100 yards in an ACTUAL NFL GAME.

Russell Wilson ran for 100 yards in a game once, but that's bad evidence he's a better runner than Christine Michael.

That comparison makes utterly no sense.

I suspect as you wildly cheer for Michael's explosive plays in the years to come, and his career yardage pulls away from Turbin, you'll understand why bbsplitter says Michael has more talent. If you do understand the case for Michael then you understand there's a lot more to it than being a preseason hero. Michael was the #3 ranked back coming out of high school, a 5 star recruit, while Turbin was unranked and a 2 star recruit. Despite a tumultuous time his senior year of college, Michael was more highly rated coming into the draft, too, with Mike Mayock advising that Michael was the most talented back in the draft. Players on the team call Michael "baby Lynch". Michael topped the combine tests among RBs, with a smattering of top placements and including a RB all-time combine record 43 inch vertical. A 43 inch vertical is just the sort of thing that makes John Schneider say "You can't go through drafts passing on talents like Michael" after the draft, because he and Carroll know that athleticism almost always wins. And, again, not just a 43 inch vertical standing on its own, a 43 inch vertical belonging to the #3 rated RB out of high school and proven college runner: A demonstrated football player with elite athleticism.

So, there's a lot more to it than just that Michael was 2nd in the preseason NFL in yards per game on 5.0 yards per carry or that he took a hand-off from Russell Wilson and made Green Bay's first string defense vanish on a 43 yard TD. No particular piece of evidence is proof, but it all adds up in a Bayes' rule sort of way. The case for Michael being more talented than Turbin is extremely well-supported.

Cool story. Did you see the point in my post where I said "I UNDERSTAND THE CASE FOR MICHAEL BEING MORE TALENTED THAN TURBIN"? I'm not even disputing your overall point, but a lot of your evidence isn't particularly helpful anyway. Russell Wilson was a two-star recruit in high school as well. Jimmy Clausen was a five-star recruit and #1 at his position. How has that helped us evaluate the two players at the pro level?

Anyway, you say nothing of Ware being better than Turbin, which was the point I was specifically addressing. Feel free to blow me away with his high school scouting report.

 

[HawkWow]

If I had to grade Turbin right now, using the eye / common sense test, I'd give him a solid B. He does what he is asked to do in the offense, behind a (mostly) woeful line, blocks well and holds onto the ball (when used correctly). I don't mean to be redundant, but the RB position, more so than any other, is about reps. Reps = rhythm = improved YPC. You will always hear the announcers comment about a back "he gets stronger as the game gets longer". Well, if we're talking 20-30 reps, they all do. The D-line is wearing and the RB is finding his rhythm. We've not seen turbo allowed that luxury.

Turbin, IMO, is worth no less than the 4th rd we used to obtain him. He is much more experienced and that experience came without a lot of wear. Yes, he needs to pick up his feet but he is not a #1 back and that is why he was drafted to play behind ML, and soon, behind CM. Ware and Coleman will replace MRob and Harvin will likely get reps @ RB, too.

I'd need to see Turbin carry the ball 20 times behind a healthy line before even thinking about ditching him and his miniscule contract. How many times have we heard Pete say about RW..."he's doing exactly what I ask of him"? I believe Pete would likely say the same for Turbin.

 

[randomation]

According to Sherman's article Lynch had been giving serious thought to retirement if they won the super bowl so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him retire especially if next years team wins it.

 

[HawkWow]

Unsure about the retirement talk. Sounds like it was just talk. In any event, I will be stunned if Lynch is a Hawk in 15. In fact, as much as I worship the man, I will be disappointed if he's a Hawk in 15. That would likely mean Michael was a bust / wasted pick. Running backs seldom just slow down. More times than not, they drop right off a cliff and few got pounded like Lynch. I sure hope the line gels / comes together for him to make another run next year. He's an all timer and that's how I'd like to see him go out.

 

[QuahHawk]

Best bet is to trade him for another player but I think he sticks around. He wouldn't get us more than what we drafted him for.

 

[A London Hawk]

If you've seen MRob doing his 'internship' on NFLN there's no doubt he's got his next gig lined up.

MRob has achieved his stated goal of winning the Superbowl. Whether he's back next year may be as much on him as anything else.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... ract-talks

He's part of the panel in that clip and looks and sounds like he belongs.

 

[kjreid]

we keep Turbin, great price, good player and we let go of MRob, bad price, good player.

 

[Grahamhawker]

To date .... Robert Turbin has been used as a spot player off the bench giving others a breather ..... both in the offense and on special teams. He wasn't given an (in season) start and has been limited to 20 to 25 percent of offensive snaps while deployed at various positions. We do see running backs who can not handle that role. Indeed, some who are asked to contribute as spot players ...... can't do it. Backups, who can jump in and compete on the fly have value ... and that is the value of Turbin to this point in his career.

It would seem Christine Michael and Spencer Ware have a lot of work in front of them in their quest to carve out bigger roles with the 2014 offense. I'm optimistic about those 2014 roles. It's unfortunate that Spencer Ware has the added task of going thru DUI procedures. I would think the experience will make him stronger in his quest to be a Seahawk 24/7

:13: I think Turbs has done a credible job doing exactly what he has been asked to do. If he was on an inflated contract, I could see a trade, but not now. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[Tokadub]

Turbin is really cheap right now I can't see any reason why we would trade him. As others mentioned he really gets a raw deal from the refs. There were several plays this season I actually felt bad for him after the penalties, the guy just can't get a break and all the calls have been terrible.

I think we are in great shape at RB, I expect Christine Michael to eventually take over for Lynch and Turbin will stay with us to run the ball in certain situations or when we have the game locked up already.

I am not quite sure if Lynch will be gone in 2015 but maybe if his contract is too large it's inevitable. I'd like to see him retire a Hawk. I'm also not yet ready to throw in the towel on him, against the Saints and 49ers in the playoffs he looked just as good as ever to me.

If we take the handcuffs off Christine Michael next season, and if Harvin provides us enough offence to lower our necessary Lynch snaps I could see Lynch being healthy and productive for several more years, but we'd have to restructure his contract things are going to get very messy 2015 when we pay Russel.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Turbin is so bad he can't get more than 5 yards without an obvious hold.

When turbin stops on a dime it's cause he's preparing for life after this contract, when turbin goes down he's preparing for life after first contact, turbin is so disproportionate he gets leg cramps simply holding Up his arms, turbin hits his sure tackle the hardest in the nfl, every time turbin breaks a tackle an angel dies, I once dvrd a turbin run only to discover he tripped over a germ. Lawd help this boy, I pray we even get a 5th for him.

 

[Scottemojo]

Turbin is just fine. He has more value here than as trade bait.

Why do I think this post was more about keeping MRob than getting rid of Turbin?

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Turbin makes forrest Gump look athletic.