Time for Seahawks to be a pass-first offense

[MontanaHawk05]

Lacking a running game really hurts you in January more than in any other month. With the colder weather, you want a running game that can endure in the physical harshness and take the game out of the hands (no pun intended) of needing your receivers to make all the plays. Not to mention the above-referenced unpredictability that a two-dimensional offense gives you. It's also how you close out games.

I think we can win with Wilson first, but Seattle needs to figure out something in the run game.

It'd be nice if they just put Rawls in and let him get into a rhythm, instead of desperately trying to squeeze something out of Lacy to justify the money spent on him.

 

[johnnyfever]

The one thing I can guarantee you is that PC will not rest until we can run the ball effectively and balance the offense. It has been one of his core philosophies for decades. I don't think we have the RB we need or want on the team right now.

We are now forced due to lack of cap to use our current personnel as effectively as we can. I see the coaching staff getting creative and a little more experimental in the next few weeks with our run blocking scheme. As we have seen with Collins, maybe the actual backs arent the main problem.

Bev has been doing much better with his offensive strategies and schemes, but there is still a lot of room to improve. We still rely on broken plays too much instead of solid misdirection to keep defenses guessing. Cable's line is getting better, and now with pocic and brown should be ready for a large jump in improvement. We spent draft capital and money on this line and I'm sure PC and JS expect to see results from this.

As far as Running backs, We know what rawls is capable of. In my opinion, we should put him in quite often in the skins game and keep him the primary back all game. Let him get a little more used to the flow and let the line get accustomed to his tempo as well. Lacy is Lacy. He is a bowling ball, but needs a lane to roll through. If he could get past the initial DL with a head of steam he can go. Keep him north and south and really press this into him. He is not a quick cut back.

The next 3 weeks are going to be very telling if we will be able to make these adjustments. W's are important especially because HFA would be very important for us to make a run at the SB, but unless we can balance this offense we will get exposed in the playoffs where the teams we play have been battle tested.

 

[Anthony!]

I like first downs.

agreed we have been getting a lot more fo them passing than we were running

 

[Anthony!]

well, first no one is saying don't run at all, just use the pass to set up the run and pass more than run.

"For our defenses sake" why you don't think that having an offense that can score a lot helps them. We held the ball for 29:38 almost a whole half throwing it most of the time, so its not about them being on the field too much. So why for our defenses sake. I would think scoring and moving the ball is better than 3 and outs which is what we get when we try to be a run-first team.

Just remember too many teams.. Colts and Patriots come to mind.. fast strike, last team to score wins.
I want our team to be Run oriented.. ball controlling, time controlling and Russ only passes for no more than 250 yards..

Besides, if teams are just trading points, whats the point in putting all the money into a defense that's going to be ineffective cause their gasping all the time? I think we want the offense on the field for time consuming drives, not necessarily a lot of drives.

just because we pass more doe snot mean it will be a trading scores thing. I mean look the week before against the giants we threw for over 300 yards but won by 17. Look at the Indy game we threw for 295 but won by 28. Just because we throw more does not mean were in the last score wins. I mean that is up to our defense but we don't have to be. If you look at all the games were we threw for 295 or more which were 4 games, only 1 game did our offense not hold the ball for 29 minutes or more(30 is half) and in that game, it was over 27 minutes so only 5 minutes different. So the defense has not been getting burned out when we pass a lot. In fact, the only game where we did not hold the ball a lot was Gb the rest we were all 27 or more. Now not all of this is on the offense either if the defense cant get off the file that also plays a part in the time of possession. However, as I pointed out passing more does not mean the Defense is on the field longer.

Your talking about two of the worst teams in the league..
Good teams don't get desperate if they know they can get the ball back quickly, they will get desperate if they realize the Hawks offense is on another long time consuming drive and they don't know when they will get the ball back, which forces them to pass the ball desperately, into the Hawks strength.. deep balls(well generally). Look, if the Hawks need fast points, they can still go that route, but it's not the norm I'm looking for.

As far as passing more? I remember that if Russ threw for more the 250 yards, we probably lost that game.. of course we had a runner back then. No, I think it's a crap shoot if were run and gun against a decent team.. We did it with Texas, but hell their pass defense is just awful.

once again we had or were equal in time of possession in all the games were we through for 295 or more, IN all those games there were several long drives, and very few 3 and outs. IN the games were we did not through alot we had way more 3 and outs. Houston is ranked 19th in pass defense by yards, which is not awful. This year when RW throws for more than 250 we are 3-1. Last year we were 8-2 when he did it, 2015 we were 5-2 so in the last 3 years we are 16-5 when he throws for over 250 which is really good. AS to a crap shoot, right now it is a crap shoot if we can run at all, so why would you even try to be run first. We are 5-2 with a pass-first offense, you don't change what it's working. You pas to set up the run.

 

[Anthony!]

I like first downs.

I like touchdowns.

Yeah. The former usually determines the latter doesn't it. Even if it is not on the same drive. Don't care how we get them.

we are avg over 30 points a game in the last 5 since we went pass first, so there you go

 

[Millen Hawk]

Hawks have been forced to be a Pass First offense and they are one of the top passing teams, they are winning games, they are winning time of possession, only 4 INT, and averaging 7.8yds/play. Basically every thing PC has been preaching about the importance of a strong running game we have in a passing game. And lastly, our entire offense seems to be having fun and working together.

Adding Brown is awesome and we all have been asking for improvement to our OL and protection for RW. My only only only only only concern by adding Brown is that we will go back to a run first offense. I completely understand the importance of a balanced offense and that a solid run game can do. But in the past few games, I have seen what a solid pass game can also do to defenses.I feel at this point with the weapons we have catching the ball (and lack of weapons running the ball) that a passing offense is the way to go.

It was mentioned that we will need a solid run game as we get further into the season and the weather turns, however looking at our schedule, all of our away games are either played in a dome or warm weather climates.

 

[The Breh]

We should have addressed our O-line in the draft, and we needed to find a legitimate X receiver, but didn’t.

We’ve jeopardized RW’s health in the process, and it’s a minor miracle that he’s never missed a game. Our front office needs to reevaluate our O-line philosophy, and start emphasizing athleticism rather than brawn.

Our second pick was a versatile lineman who can play positions on the line.
We brought in Joeckel and Aboushi. Missed out on Lang.
We got plenty of linemen now and yet a difficult scheme to run. It always takes time.
Patience is key but foolish to make the presumption that we haven't at least TRIED to address the glaring issue.

I'll just assume you were trolling on both accounts not addressing the line or finding another "x receiver".
When we clearly had McEvoy, Williams (at the time), we drafted a big sure handed Darboh among all the other receivers we have or have been patiently waiting to blossom. And Richardson has finally provided what we've been waiting for.

Yeah, I'll stick with the trolling assumption because option B I'll leave alone and not look like I'm "attacking" a posters opinion.

 

[Anthony!]

The one thing I can guarantee you is that PC will not rest until we can run the ball effectively and balance the offense. It has been one of his core philosophies for decades. I don't think we have the RB we need or want on the team right now.

We are now forced due to lack of cap to use our current personnel as effectively as we can. I see the coaching staff getting creative and a little more experimental in the next few weeks with our run blocking scheme. As we have seen with Collins, maybe the actual backs arent the main problem.

Bev has been doing much better with his offensive strategies and schemes, but there is still a lot of room to improve. We still rely on broken plays too much instead of solid misdirection to keep defenses guessing. Cable's line is getting better, and now with pocic and brown should be ready for a large jump in improvement. We spent draft capital and money on this line and I'm sure PC and JS expect to see results from this.

As far as Running backs, We know what rawls is capable of. In my opinion, we should put him in quite often in the skins game and keep him the primary back all game. Let him get a little more used to the flow and let the line get accustomed to his tempo as well. Lacy is Lacy. He is a bowling ball, but needs a lane to roll through. If he could get past the initial DL with a head of steam he can go. Keep him north and south and really press this into him. He is not a quick cut back.

The next 3 weeks are going to be very telling if we will be able to make these adjustments. W's are important especially because HFA would be very important for us to make a run at the SB, but unless we can balance this offense we will get exposed in the playoffs where the teams we play have been battle tested.

I agree with some of this but not all. I think the word balance is overused. We will need to pass more than we run period we have the personnel for it. That said I do agree we need to run more. An optimal ratio would be 35 passes and 25 runs. Unfortunately, we will not get there as we just can't run right now, and trying to do it too much puts too much pressure on the passing game and the defense. That said I would like to see us work toward having a decent run game by playoffs, Does not have to be great but enough to avg 3.5-4.0 ypa consistently. Right now we are at 3.7 but that is with Rw, without him, we are at 3.2 and again it is a boom or bust yards. Meaning a lot of 2 or less with one big one. Not sustainable. So I guess I agree we need to be able to run but it is not a more issue but a better issue, but we need to maintain a pass to set up the run offense. This way when we need the pass it is already in gear and hopefully we can get a lead and then can afford to run more.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Yes.

Pete wants a balanced team. And in 2015, 2016 and 2017, we've spend 6-8 weeks of the season trying to be a balanced team.

Yet in each of the last 3 seasons, Wilson has gone off late as soon as this team threw the 50/50 philosophy out the window.

It is obvious to me this is Wilson's team. And we are a passing team. And the September/October period of denial about who we are is instrumental in our offensive dysfunction and our penchant for starting slow. And the November come to Jesus moment that Carroll has each of the last three seasons has neatly coincided with Seattle blossoming into a late season force.

Yes it's time. It's November. This is a pattern that has been fully borne out since Lynch became a non factor for us.

 

[Seymour]

Yes.

Pete wants a balanced team. And in 2015, 2016 and 2017, we've spend 6-8 weeks of the season trying to be a balanced team.

Yet in each of the last 3 seasons, Wilson has gone off late as soon as this team threw the 50/50 philosophy out the window.

It is obvious to me this is Wilson's team. And we are a passing team. And the September/October period of denial about who we are is instrumental in our offensive dysfunction and our penchant for starting slow. And the November come to Jesus moment that Carroll has each of the last three seasons has neatly coincided with Seattle blossoming into a late season force.

Yes it's time. It's November. This is a pattern that has been fully borne out since Lynch became a non factor for us.

There must be some mistake?

I was told this was Baldwin's team? :3-1:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Exactly. And Russ only wins because of the Defense and Running game. Oh wait...........

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Exactly. And Russ only wins because of the Defense and Running game. Oh wait...........

Yes, this is the lazy national narrative. It also happens to be outwardly true. For several reasons:

1. Pete in the last three seasons has stunted the transition to a QB centric offense. Russell has been handcuffed at the top and that distinction is lost in the national narrative.

2. Russell was hurt last year and by superficial appearances, regressed last year. The fact that he gutted through a poor statistical year doesn't show up on the stat sheet. Virtually no concession on that is made at the national level.

3. This team intentionally hasn't built a support structure offensively for Wilson to explode. Outsiders generally rail on the national narrative that Seattle's OL stinks. But Wilson gets only nominal credit for what he does despite that. And when he does, it's always a "Wilson performs well, despite the offense". Instead of merely Wilson performs well.

Basically, there are legitimate reasons why Russell's impact on our success is masked. But those reasons require a depth of understanding about this club that is difficult to near impossible to expect from an outsider's perspective. It's the kind of understanding that really only people that follow us in depth can appreciate.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

1. Pete in the last three seasons has stunted the transition to a QB centric offense. Russell has been handcuffed at the top and that distinction is lost in the national narrative.

It's lost even at our level.

And it's been going on since Russell got here. Even in his first two years, Russell was constantly pushing for more options and freedom in the offense, and Pete seemed to respond only grudgingly. It was a razor-thin goalline playbook, not The Call, that ended XLIX for us, because the Patriots knew what play was coming.

At the beginning of this season, even, Pete has insisted on a pared-down playbook instead of simply opening up. I don't know whether he's simply trying to protect Russell, wanting to get the run game going, or just being prideful (or some combination of all three).

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

1. Pete in the last three seasons has stunted the transition to a QB centric offense. Russell has been handcuffed at the top and that distinction is lost in the national narrative.

I don't know whether he's simply trying to protect Russell, wanting to get the run game going, or just being prideful (or some combination of all three).

I am of the all three camp as well. I think there is sufficient evidence to suggest that Pete has an ideal model that he wants to win with. This desire is borne both by offseason acquisitions and how the offense is tailored to start the seasons.

I think he naturally is risk averse as it pertains to QB play. That's not unusual for defensive minded head coaches. Offensive minded head coaches treat the QB position far differently. Incidentally, I give Belichick all the credit in the world for really allowing his offensive coaches virtual free reign with Brady. It's no coincidence that his offensive underlings get coaching gigs elsewhere.

I'm not sure of the prideful thing. If it were that, then I think we'd see more stubbornness in sticking with the ideal instead of relenting and allowing Wilson to go off. I'm guessing there is some element of that, but I'd also have to give him credit for conceding what I'm sure are core principles for how he wants his team to perform.

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

With OL improvement and the addition of OLT-Brown, I think we'll see more read-option plays, which likely help both the run and pass game. In the late 2015 season run by RW, the running game (mostly Rawls) was not a problem, but was used to set up other plays + IIRC the read option was a small but significant part of that late season run, maybe it will be again with improved run blocking where Brown helps out a lot? I hope so.

 

[chris98251]

If you look at our philosophy it's all about control, defense used to control field position and take away control from the offense, special teams about controlling filed position, running game to control pace of game and clock, also following theory less chance of a turnover running the ball. Passing game set to go to sidelines and away or deep and away with little over the middle passing to avoid turnovers. Everything to limit risks and control tempo and position.