Thoughts on PFF's grading of our OL players

[toffee]

These are grading from PFF, all below 50 in red. According to PFF, Cross isn't a problem, nor Laken, Conner was getting better until the Buffalo game. So what's the problem?

Coaching:
OL needs to play as a unit. The sum should be greater than the parts; in our case, it really is not. I put that on coaching.
Our younger players' grading went south the more they played. Adjustments from DC are killing our young players.

RG:
We invested heavily on RG, drafted Bradford then a year later drafted Haynes who is older and more experienced than Bradford. Both sucked, but Bradford had more serviceable games than Haynes, lol, his replacement. Both guys are better with pass blocking than run blocking. You know what? Damien Lewis is having a good season in Carolina,

RT:
It was unfortunate that Fant was injured in game one, since then Stone had one good game against the Dolphins,

Run/Pass blocking:
If we believe in PFF, our run blocking on the left ought to be better than on the right, yet we might run more toward the right. Our guys scored better on pass blocking than run blocking, could that be why Grubb favored passing?

 

[Rat]

How do you score a 12 in pass blocking? That's like equivalent to just placing a traffic cone to the right of the center.

 

[toffee]

How do you score a 12 in pass blocking? That's like equivalent to just placing a traffic cone to the right of the center.

If Fant can play at the level of his first game, and Bradford improves some. Our OL could surprise the league, I am quite positive about our OL after putting together this chart. My biggest worry is coaching, our OL ain't playing like an unit, quite disjointed.

 

[seabowl]

One player that I have not been real impressed with is Connor Williams. I thought he’d be much better than he is.

 

[toffee]

One player that I have not been real impressed with is Connor Williams. I thought he’d be much better than he is.

Connor came back from a major injury, also he didn't have the benefit of a training camp to learn a new system. So he was two steps forward (SF and Atl), one step back (Bills).

 

[AgentDib]

In my view Cross has been solid but he hasn't played quite as well as the grades would suggest. The best pass rushers have tended to line up against our right side due to our struggles there, and in many cases we haven't really seen Cross go against the best defenders.

One limitation of PFF's 'objective' grading approach is that they don't know the assignments, don't grade relative to the difficulty of assignment, and don't consider the defensive personnel. Some players are more likely to be involved in combo blocks, or get support from RBs and TEs. Most defenses have one or two star pass rushers who move around and will be going against different players.

For example, last night the Texans LG got a lot of heat for allowing pressures. He got hurt and then his backup also allowed a ton of pressure. However, Quinnen Williams (Jets DT) is a monster and looked borderline unblockable. If he had been lined up against the RG, then perhaps the RG would have struggled all night too. Or did Williams just look particularly dominant because the LGs were struggling?

The fun part of being a fan is that there's plenty of room to speculate on both sides, and ultimately you can't accurately grade this stuff from an outside perspective. PFF grades are for entertainment purposes.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Bradford is playing deceptively well. This has a lot of stats on the whole line.

MSN

 

[Lords of Scythia]

In my view Cross has been solid but he hasn't played quite as well as the grades would suggest. The best pass rushers have tended to line up against our right side due to our struggles there, and in many cases we haven't really seen Cross go against the best defenders.

One limitation of PFF's 'objective' grading approach is that they don't know the assignments, don't grade relative to the difficulty of assignment, and don't consider the defensive personnel. Some players are more likely to be involved in combo blocks, or get support from RBs and TEs. Most defenses have one or two star pass rushers who move around and will be going against different players.

For example, last night the Texans LG got a lot of heat for allowing pressures. He got hurt and then his backup also allowed a ton of pressure. However, Quinnen Williams (Jets DT) is a monster and looked borderline unblockable. If he had been lined up against the RG, then perhaps the RG would have struggled all night too. Or did Williams just look particularly dominant because the LGs were struggling?

The fun part of being a fan is that there's plenty of room to speculate on both sides, and ultimately you can't accurately grade this stuff from an outside perspective. PFF grades are for entertainment purposes.

Every o-line in the league is strong on the left side as this is the QB's blind side when he drops back--the best lineman will always be the LT, like Walter Jones. MM says Cross is playing great.

 

[hawkfan68]

In my view Cross has been solid but he hasn't played quite as well as the grades would suggest. The best pass rushers have tended to line up against our right side due to our struggles there, and in many cases we haven't really seen Cross go against the best defenders.

One limitation of PFF's 'objective' grading approach is that they don't know the assignments, don't grade relative to the difficulty of assignment, and don't consider the defensive personnel. Some players are more likely to be involved in combo blocks, or get support from RBs and TEs. Most defenses have one or two star pass rushers who move around and will be going against different players.

For example, last night the Texans LG got a lot of heat for allowing pressures. He got hurt and then his backup also allowed a ton of pressure. However, Quinnen Williams (Jets DT) is a monster and looked borderline unblockable. If he had been lined up against the RG, then perhaps the RG would have struggled all night too. Or did Williams just look particularly dominant because the LGs were struggling?

The fun part of being a fan is that there's plenty of room to speculate on both sides, and ultimately you can't accurately grade this stuff from an outside perspective. PFF grades are for entertainment purposes.

Agreed on Cross. According to this article he's either 2nd or 3rd highest in most pressures allowed stat - https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ot...-at-right-guard/ar-AA1tlb0U?ocid=BingNewsVerp

 

[toffee]

I agree y'all, to my eyes, Cross isn't as good as PFF grades indicated. He was tested in Detriot, and it wasn't pretty. Bradford hasn't been good, but he is more promising than Haynes in those games. He is also bigger and possibly quicker.

The most important thing for our OL:

COACHING

We have three coaches in three years—that's Cross's entire pro career, and Lucas, too. Solaris has the whole difference-blocking philosophy from his successor, and now we have a college coach. Hard for OL to have continuous chemistry when we screw around their schemes and coaching approaches.

I suspect Solaris was 'forced' on Waldron by Pete, and he get rid of Solari after one season to install his own man. Now Grubb wants his own man too. All at the expense of our OL chemistry.

 

[Shane Falco]

I agree that a great offensive line coach can make a huge impact. I don't know how many times that I've read about a guy that probably would have been out of football but was made into a great player all due to a specific coach. A couple that come to mind is, Nate Newton of Dallas and Joe Jacoby of the old Washington team with 'the hogs' as a couple of extreme cases. These guys wholeheartedly credited the offensive line coaches for turning them into what they became. And there are many more examples if you really dig into it.

I also think the lower talent level we have now could really use a great coach about right now. lol

We should be better at the tackle position, there's been some bad breaks with Lucas and maybe Cross isn't as elite as we all hoped based on his high draft status / rankings and all that. This front office has always went after the tackle position like they value it highly through the draft and the trade for Duane Brown.

But when it comes to the interior, this team has barely done anything at all in a lot of years. To expect these guys to be good is kind of crazy if you ask me. I am actually amazed at how well we've gotten by all this time with washed up/never was/last minute/whatever is left - signings and barely much draft capital spent on the interior over the years. It's a philosophy that hopefully changes with the new coaching staff.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm not gonna neg Cross. He's always been underrated here, frankly. PFF grades ruin everything.

Cross has consistently been competent at worst. He's played near-elite ball this year, and PFF at least is getting that right. They're also getting Bradford > Haynes right.

Laken Tomlinson got a lot of hate early on, but PFF is also correct (to my eyes) that he's been increasingly competent and actually is becoming easily the second-brightest spot on the line. That should be expected, as he's always been average-at-worst.

 

[Shane Falco]

There's other metrics you can use. I take PFF with a grain of salt also. But Cross isn't even in the top 20 tackles in the league in Pass Block Win Rate. I think he is our best lineman, I was just saying we hoped he'd be more than what he is considering. You would have hoped he would be at least a top 15 tackle in the league. But I don't consider him a problem, just hoped for a bit more out of him.

Not exactly a high accomplishment to become the second best guy on this line. So PFF ruins Cross but is correct on Tomlinson? Just wondering there.

 

[knownone]

It's worth mentioning Cross is ranked 20th in pass blocking according to PFF. He's not really overvalued in that department. He gives up a lot of pressure because Seattle passes the ball at an absurd rate, and he's still only credited with one sack given up this season.

 

[toffee]

Tomorrow, the rams will face:

Cross - Laken - Connor - Bradford - FANT

This group surely can handle the Rams' front 7, the way they handled the Broncos front 7.

Go Hawks.

 

[Shane Falco]

Should be better for sure. I don't think Grubbs offensive system is doing them any favors and there is a lack of continuity happening that is not helping either. But that lineup is definitely better on paper. RT has been a disaster.

 

[HawkinNY]

If Fant can play at the level of his first game, and Bradford improves some. Our OL could surprise the league, I am quite positive about our OL after putting together this chart. My biggest worry is coaching, our OL ain't playing like a unit, quite disjointed.

No. Nothing will make this line serviceable. The talent is so bad. They are all backups besides cross. And when I say backups I mean 3rd string guys who only come in when they have no one healthy.

 

[toffee]

George Fant may be the worst off-season acquisition. He was injured and played poorly in his limited snaps. Otherwise, PFF graded our OL higher and disagreed with my eyeballs.

 

[knownone]

George Fant may be the worst off-season acquisition. He was injured and played poorly in his limited snaps. Otherwise, PFF graded our OL higher and disagreed with my eyeball.

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PFF definitely graded the left side higher than expect, but the right is still a dumpster fire. Jerrell's grade is below replacement level, and Bradford is at replacement level.

 

[toffee]

PFF definitely graded the left side higher than expect, but the right is still a dumpster fire. Jerrell's grade is below replacement level, and Bradford is at replacement level.

Jerrell is not the answer, he was not expected to being a RT4.