The myth of the number 1 defense in the NFL

[Followthelegion]

I don't know about all of you Hawk fans out there, but the thing that constantly winds me up in the media, both commentary shows and written, is that the best defense in the league belongs to the Denver Broncos.

The fact that Seattle has been number 1 in points for the last 4 years, which is unprecedented since the 1950s seems to barely garner any attention.

This myth has been fuelled by Denver's superbowl win based on the mostpart of their defense due to Manning's deficiencies.

Now don't get me wrong, the defense is really strong from a pass rushing standpoint with Ware and Von Miller, alongside effective push from the rotation (Wolfe has jumped off the screen when I've seen them this year), and so on the line most of us would give Denver a definitive advantage (despite the disruption that Bennett, Clark and a lesser extent Avril now brings). However this idea that the back 3 are clearly much better than Sherman, Shead and Lane is disrespectful. If people were picking a dream team, I imagine the most popular selection would be Sherman and Talib as CBs, with Lane in the slot.

Then when you consider the advantage Seattle have at LB with Wagner and Wright, I just do not understand how "experts" can categorically state (with no reservations) that Denver's defense is the league's best. This is all backed up by their statistical output in recent history.

I'm hoping we put together a lockdown performance of the Falcons a la Superbowl 48 to get the narrative correct. THIS is the greatest Defense in the league. No debate.

 

[tmobilchawker79]

I need a greater sample size than four games to base my judgement on just how good this Seattle D is. I think we need to hold off crowning anyone just yet.

 

[Followthelegion]

I need a greater sample size than four games to base my judgement on just how good this Seattle D is. I think we need to hold off crowning anyone just yet.

I agree about the sample size being too small. Its just this assumption that somehow Denver has earnt its right to be given this title by default irks me.

In the same way they were being equated by some in the media to the Seahawks 2013 defense after their superbowl win. No, just no.

 

[Hollandhawk]

I need a greater sample size than four games to base my judgement on just how good this Seattle D is. I think we need to hold off crowning anyone just yet.

I agree about the sample size being too small. Its just this assumption that somehow Denver has earnt its right to be given this title by default irks me.

In the same way they were being equated by some in the media to the Seahawks 2013 defense after their superbowl win. No, just no.

Not everyone says that about Denver, Nate Burleson said the Vikings have the best defense and compared them to the 85 bears :lol:

 

[12thbrah]

I don't know about all of you Hawk fans out there, but the thing that constantly winds me up in the media, both commentary shows and written, is that the best defense in the league belongs to the Denver Broncos.

The fact that Seattle has been number 1 in points for the last 4 years, which is unprecedented since the 1950s seems to barely garner any attention.

This myth has been fuelled by Denver's superbowl win based on the mostpart of their defense due to Manning's deficiencies.

Now don't get me wrong, the defense is really strong from a pass rushing standpoint with Ware and Von Miller, alongside effective push from the rotation (Wolfe has jumped off the screen when I've seen them this year), and so on the line most of us would give Denver a definitive advantage (despite the disruption that Bennett, Clark and a lesser extent Avril now brings). However this idea that the back 3 are clearly much better than Sherman, Shead and Lane is disrespectful. If people were picking a dream team, I imagine the most popular selection would be Sherman and Talib as CBs, with Lane in the slot.

Then when you consider the advantage Seattle have at LB with Wagner and Wright, I just do not understand how "experts" can categorically state (with no reservations) that Denver's defense is the league's best. This is all backed up by their statistical output in recent history.

I'm hoping we put together a lockdown performance of the Falcons a la Superbowl 48 to get the narrative correct. THIS is the greatest Defense in the league. No debate.

It may not be the #1 defense in the league today (I would put the Vikings above us right now) but what this squad has done since 2012 should put them in the all-time conversation.

 

[sutz]

Typically, the league and the media tend to rate based on yardage, not points, so our "bend but don't break" philosophy works against us in the rating. We are a bit soft underneath sometimes to RBs and TE's in short crossing routes, but we seldom get beat deep. That can lead to giving up a lot of cheap yards, but keeps us ahead in the scoring category.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Denver has a great defense.

Bear in mind just how little help they are getting from their offense, and just how taxing an unproductive offense is to the defense.

We actually don't know what we have as our defense.

We seem to have a much better pass rush, but we also have a total mystery at the other CB spot. Some days Shead looks spectacular and some days, much less.

It also matters that our defense has been faced with a procession of bad to average teams. This one against Atlanta will be the first real test we have gotten.

So far we look better, but then again our opponents look a lot worse. We haven't faced a real test save vs the Rams and we lost that one.

We will know a lot more about where we stand defensively after the Atlanta game.

 

[ivotuk]

I need a greater sample size than four games to base my judgement on just how good this Seattle D is. I think we need to hold off crowning anyone just yet.

This year? Sure. But historically, I think 4 years in a row is all the sample size I need.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Talk to me after the next four weeks.

I need to see this version of the Hawk's D play against better offenses than the 14th, 24th, 26th and 28th ranked offenses.

 

[Popeyejones]

Typically, the league and the media tend to rate based on yardage, not points

Yep.

Not saying it should be that way, but it's the way it has always been.

Other things to consider:

1) The Broncos are coming off a Super Bowl win, and like all SB winning teams of course they'll get talked up as long as they perform.

2) The Broncos are 4-1 so far this year, and if you go back to Sanchez being the starter in the pre-season, they have already cycled through three pretty crappy QBs, and their running game ain't much to talk about either. If they're winning with mediocre QBs who had never played an NFL snap before this year (which they are), of course their defense is gonna get talked up.

3) It's literally been years since someone has denied how great the Hawks defense is. That people talk about the Broncos and Vikings (last year and this year) also having good defenses doesn't really take away from the Hawks, IMO.

4) To the degree that Wilson gets more credit for the Hawks success (which he has been, and which a lot of Hawks fans have been clamoring for) the defense is going to get a little bit less credit. TBF Wilson and Baldwin have mostly siphoned off credit that use to go to Lynch, but if this is really "Wilson's team" now in the way the Hawks get talked about in the media, the defense is just gonna get talked about a little less.

 

[Fade]

Seattle stands alone in this era.

Via Hawkblogger. Up through week 4 this year.


Look at that gap. It's not even close.

A more recent sample: the last 9 games going back to last year.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/hawkblogger/status/784401508255150080[/tweet]


The 2013 Seahawks are the only team in the NFL since the 1985 Bears. To lead the league in Yards, Points, and Turnovers in the same season. Completing the very hard to do Defensive Triple Crown.

The Seahawks defense is historic. Denver has yet to do anything historic. Seattle just beat them out for the scoring title last year. Denver has a great defense, but they couldn't take the scoring title belt away from Seattle who BTW handicapped themselves last year by starting a woeful Carry Williams a large portion of the year.

Seattle is the 1st team since the 1950's Browns to lead the league in scoring defense 4 consecutive years. And they very well may get a 5th consecutive scoring title this year.

Short sample size so far this year, but this is how they stack up right now w/2013. Again Via Hawkblogger.


Pass rush is better than 2013 as well.


http://www.hawkblogger.com/2016/10/seahawks-stat-porn-quarter-mark.html

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

But, but, but................South Alaska!



It really is shitty as hell that no one talks about this defense. What they are doing is historically good, especially considering the offensive oriented era they're playing in. I will say if these guys win another Super Bowl this year and lead the NFL yet again in scoring D they might finally get their just dessert. I will also say it is my sincere hope that whether it happens or not, they keep the chip on their collective shoulders which in turn fuels them to continue to be the best for a number of years to come.

 

[Hawks46]

This year, we lead Denver in almost every important defensive category.

In my mind, we'll answer a lot of questions about this defense after Sunday. Denver was actually a bit ahead of us (due to us giving up some garbage time TD's to SF) but then played Atlanta. They didn't give up all that many points, but got gashed yardage and 3rd down conversion wise. If we can hold Atlanta to under 20 points and under 350 yards of offense, it will be a big win for our defense and probably catapult us into the 1st place for scoring defense.

It looks like to my eyes that the Vikings defense is the best in the league this year. They make every team earn every yard, all game long. It's like we throttle an opponent, then just relax halfway through the 4th quarter and give up garbage points and yards every game.

 

[Smellyman]

Typically, the league and the media tend to rate based on yardage, not points, so our "bend but don't break" philosophy works against us in the rating. We are a bit soft underneath sometimes to RBs and TE's in short crossing routes, but we seldom get beat deep. That can lead to giving up a lot of cheap yards, but keeps us ahead in the scoring category.

#1 in yards per game this year.
#2 in 2015
#1 in 2014
#1 in 2013
and a horrible #4 in 2012

 

[GeekHawk]

Why is it that when people talk about the crappy offenses we've faced, the fact that facing our D *really* skews their O numbers down isn't part of that conversation? With the small sample, I believe that if those teams had faced an average or mediocre D their rankings would be much better.

 

[RussB]

I personally think minnesotas defense is actually currently better than the broncos. Broncos deserve to be called the best defense though because they won a superbowl because of their defense just last season. Seattle though has been consistent for a long time now unlike the rest in the league. I think this years seattle defense could be their best yet .

 

[NINEster]

Maybe the best sign is that the Hawks are "unblowoutable". Metaphorically the Hawks get blown out if they lose by more than a TD.

Denver's defense is very good but reminds me of a rich man's version of those Strahan/Tuck/Osi/JPP Giant's Super Bowl winning defenses: a 3-4 version with better CBs, and even better pair of edge rushers. A very good formula but not the ultimate "complete" defense.

It's about finding that balance at stopping the run and pass. What keeps the Fangio and Rivera defenses from being historic is that they didn't have quite the DBs Seattle and Denver has, despite having superior LBs and run stopping ability out of a base defense.

And one way or another, you can overcome LB/run stopping deficiency (used loosely......we're talking about comparing elite to very good) with putting teams in passing situations more often than not. Having very good ILBs can help with shutting down good TEs and RBs, but often times teams are trying to strike with WRs on the outside and in the slot. The 49ers struggled in shutting down the Giants a few years ago in this aspect.

Teams focusing around TEs and RBs either are lacking that type of QB (Alex Smith) or forced into it out of fear of the Seahawks secondary (Patriots).

Carroll is smart -- he sees that it takes incredible discipline to beat the Seahawks using short passes, so it's something he's willing to sacrifice to ensure better defense against WRs and longer passes.

SF and CAR at their best didn't not to struggle as much in this area. More susceptible to getting beaten deep but very good at taking away most everything else. Just more talent in front 7, and ILBs that can cover elite TEs.

Seattle vs. Denver (or any other defense) ultimately boils down to consistency; Broncos often seemed scarier in parts last season and this season, but Seahawks defense never takes a day off.

We're still waiting for it, trust me.

 

[themunn]

Don't know how people can criticise the offenses we've played then turn around and put the Vikings on a pedestal - only the Titans are in the top half of the league for offense among their opponents - 15th in YPG.

Of the 54 points we've allowed, 14 were garbage time against the Niners and another 7 was from a garbage time freak 70 yard fumble return against the Jets.

Points allowed are still points allowed, but I have no doubts that in a tight game our defense will always close out.

 

[TransGenderHawkFan]

Talk to me after the next four weeks.

I need to see this version of the Hawk's D play against better offenses than the 14th, 24th, 26th and 28th ranked offenses.

The massive fallacy in your statement is that the Seahawks defense contributed a large portion of what made those teams rank so low.

 

[NINEster]

Talk to me after the next four weeks.

I need to see this version of the Hawk's D play against better offenses than the 14th, 24th, 26th and 28th ranked offenses.

The massive fallacy in your statement is that the Seahawks defense contributed a large portion of what made those teams rank so low.

Tell that to themunn as well trying to discredit the Vikings defense for similar reasons.

Vikings faced a few top QBs so far this season.

Seahawks about to face their first.