Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread

[Uncle Si]

Valdez- From the start of this season and parts of last season i'm wondering if he is worth the DP tag. He has quality but not sure if he is DP quality rather than TAM and can only last 60 minutes. I feel like he loses possession at ton..

This.

Maybe I'm missing something, but having an aging oft injured target hold up forward as the center of your offensive attack is confusing to me.........especially coming off two years of amazing creative and dynamic success with how Oba and Clint played off each other.

Now we have to count on Clint to incorporate a rookie and an old target forward to score goals?

idk, seems like a bigtime regressive strategy to let Oba go for not much, and keep Valdez. Why btw his asset is suppose to be his passing touch and vision, and I've seen a LOT of bad passes out of him so far this year. I expect better quality if we're going to be counting on Valdez to create for Clint and Morris.

The Sounders have the most dynamic young forward in the USMNT pool and are playing him wide so they can play a 32 year old striker in the #9 and wedge a 3 man front out of it.

It's dumb

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Valdez- From the start of this season and parts of last season i'm wondering if he is worth the DP tag. He has quality but not sure if he is DP quality rather than TAM and can only last 60 minutes. I feel like he loses possession at ton..

This.

Maybe I'm missing something, but having an aging oft injured target hold up forward as the center of your offensive attack is confusing to me.........especially coming off two years of amazing creative and dynamic success with how Oba and Clint played off each other.

Now we have to count on Clint to incorporate a rookie and an old target forward to score goals?

idk, seems like a bigtime regressive strategy to let Oba go for not much, and keep Valdez. Why btw his asset is suppose to be his passing touch and vision, and I've seen a LOT of bad passes out of him so far this year. I expect better quality if we're going to be counting on Valdez to create for Clint and Morris.

The Sounders have the most dynamic young forward in the USMNT pool and are playing him wide so they can play a 32 year old striker in the #9 and wedge a 3 man front out of it.

It's dumb

Right, and it's dumb out of a "well without Oba that's all we can do right now" tactical approach.

Ideally to take advantage of Morris's speed and skill you want him center, and not limit him to trying to be effective on only half of the pitch. But we can't do that because no Oba and Valdez is a liability anywhere but center because he can't run.

 

[Uncle Si]

You can't do it because the manager won't make the necessary changes to the squad. It's dumb to shoehorn players to fit a tactical system, which is what's happening. Could just as easy play a 4diamond2 with Valdez and Morris, Dempsey underneath, and Iva as one of the wides (tucked in); or a 4411 with Morris above Dempsey and Valdez off the bench. or a 4321 with Iva and Dempsey below Morris.

What's happening is Sigi is determined to make his 433 work despite bringing in two centerforwards. The only way morris is involved is on the overlap of Valdez as happened on his early (only?) attempt.

Thing is, even with Oba, the 433 would be dumb with Morris on there as well.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

You can't do it because the manager won't make the necessary changes to the squad. It's dumb to shoehorn players to fit a tactical system, which is what's happening. Could just as easy play a 4diamond2 with Valdez and Morris, Dempsey underneath, and Iva as one of the wides (tucked in); or a 4411 with Morris above Dempsey and Valdez off the bench. or a 4321 with Iva and Dempsey below Morris.

What's happening is Sigi is determined to make his 433 work despite bringing in two centerforwards. The only way morris is involved is on the overlap of Valdez as happened on his early (only?) attempt.

Thing is, even with Oba, the 433 would be dumb with Morris on there as well.

To be fair to Sigi, I don't think we switched to a 4-3-3 without already knowing Oba was gone.

Goes back to Valdez, we saw at the end of last year he can't play anywhere but up top without getting hurt and/or being a midfield liability if that's where you put him. So again, why the hell choose to keep Valdez and giving up our most dynamic and productive offensive weapon............for 2 million? I get it if China throws 7 million at us like they are with other overpaid players they're acquiring.

Who knows, maybe Oba forced our hand, or hell maybe Morris and his agent forced our hand telling us that's the only way he'd sign is if he started and was an offensive focal point not having to split time or fight for goals with Oba, Clint and Valdez.

 

[Uncle Si]

Losing Oba hurts, but staying resolute in a formation that doesn't best suit your players is more damaging. It's just a matter of time before Morris begins to get frustrated waiting for the majority of the offense to run through a 32 year old target striker.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Losing Oba hurts, but staying resolute in a formation that doesn't best suit your players is more damaging. It's just a matter of time before Morris begins to get frustrated waiting for the majority of the offense to run through a 32 year old target striker.

That's my point, going back to a 4-4-2 doesn't work either, because of Valdez.

idk, we'll see. Maybe the long range plan is to get a more dynamic goal scoring DP mid during the summer transfer window that fits into a 4-4-3.

But as of now? Me thinks it's going to be tough sledding to score goals with this current lineup.

 

[Uncle Si]

Losing Oba hurts, but staying resolute in a formation that doesn't best suit your players is more damaging. It's just a matter of time before Morris begins to get frustrated waiting for the majority of the offense to run through a 32 year old target striker.

That's my point, going back to a 4-4-2 doesn't work either, because of Valdez.

idk, we'll see. Maybe the long range plan is to get a more dynamic goal scoring DP mid during the summer transfer window that fits into a 4-4-3.

But as of now? Me thinks it's going to be tough sledding to score goals with this current lineup.

Why can't Valdez play in a striker pairing?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Losing Oba hurts, but staying resolute in a formation that doesn't best suit your players is more damaging. It's just a matter of time before Morris begins to get frustrated waiting for the majority of the offense to run through a 32 year old target striker.

That's my point, going back to a 4-4-2 doesn't work either, because of Valdez.

idk, we'll see. Maybe the long range plan is to get a more dynamic goal scoring DP mid during the summer transfer window that fits into a 4-4-3.

But as of now? Me thinks it's going to be tough sledding to score goals with this current lineup.

Why can't Valdez play in a striker pairing?

He can, but that'd mean Clint dropping back to midfield, and I don't think he likes that position, more work. That's what I said after the first CA match two weeks ago, that I loved Dempsey playing wide and having the freedom to move all over the pitch creating.............but even Alexi Lalas said during that match that he'd be surprised if the Sounders kept this tactic going forward because it'd wear Clint out. Low and behold we didn't do that in the 2nd leg.

 

[SeatownJay]

As deep as Clint is dropping on a routine basis to get touches, can we really consider him a true forward? There were a couple of times when Clint was closer to the back line than Oniel Fisher or Joevin Jones were. Once or twice I swear I saw the following formation out there.

--------Evans------Marshall------

----Roldan-----Alonso------Jones

Fisher----Dempsey-----Ivanshitz

----Morris------Valdez--------

 

[knownone]

I really wish people wouldn't pay so much attention to formations. It doesn't matter where players line up, Dempsey currently lines up as a forward, but his role is similar to an inverted winger. That doesn't change the formation, soccer is a fluid sport, players tend to move around.

Dempsey drops deep because the Sounders have no creative options in the midfield, that's a huge issue atm, this formation would be fine if Seattle had Yaya Toure type CM who could defend as well as transition and dictate in the attacking third.

 

[Uncle Si]

Formation is a huge part of it. It plays to your players strengths and hides weaknesses. So yes, the fact that toure current plays for man city is a big deal. Also, aguero doesn't drift out wide for them as silva doesn't play up high. So while fluidity exists it's not as rampant to suggest that it dissolves formation.

Formation and tactics are a massive part of a teams philosophy, game plan and use of players. At odds here is whether the current set up with Valdez gives this Sounders team a better chance to win than a change

City dominated liverpool for great stretches one day then were run over a few days later. Difference was toure. Without his presence the formation was completely unbalanced. Rather than change set up they inserted a new player and the result was drastically different.

 

[SeatownJay]

Once Torres is healthy I'd like to see Seattle play a backline of Fisher, Torres, Marshall, Mears, a midfield of Evans, Alonso, Dempsey, Ivanschitz, and a pairing of Morris & Valdez up top.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I really wish people wouldn't pay so much attention to formations. It doesn't matter where players line up, Dempsey currently lines up as a forward, but his role is similar to an inverted winger. That doesn't change the formation, soccer is a fluid sport, players tend to move around.

Dempsey drops deep because the Sounders have no creative options in the midfield, that's a huge issue atm, this formation would be fine if Seattle had Yaya Toure type CM who could defend as well as transition and dictate in the attacking third.

I'm not blaming the formation, I'm blaming management for not using some forethought on getting rid of our most productive and creative goal scorer and replacing him with a rookie and slow ass target forward.

A target forward who btw had a ball drop right to his feet with an open goal yesterday and couldn't get on top of it........or just tap it to a wide open Morris for an easy goal.

 

[knownone]

Formation is a huge part of it. It plays to your players strengths and hides weaknesses. So yes, the fact that toure current plays for man city is a big deal. Also, aguero doesn't drift out wide for them as silva doesn't play up high. So while fluidity exists it's not as rampant to suggest that it dissolves formation.

Formation and tactics are a massive part of a teams philosophy, game plan and use of players. At odds here is whether the current set up with Valdez gives this Sounders team a better chance to win than a change

City dominated liverpool for great stretches one day then were run over a few days later. Difference was toure. Without his presence the formation was completely unbalanced. Rather than change set up they inserted a new player and the result was drastically different.

Sure, I think formations give us as fans a little insight into what the clubs are trying to do, I do however find the conversation of them slightly bombastic. My point being, when you look on the field and start assuming roles based on formation things start to get distorted, the system is what's important, not whatever shape the team happens to have at any given moment. Keep in mind I'm primarily referring to Seatown's comment of seeing the Sounder's in a 2-3-3-2, which is a fine observation to have and I'm glad people are actively trying to learn the sport and understand the tactics behind it, but from my perspective it's a slightly odd conclusion.

I'm really not sure what to make of the Sounders formation at the moment. Seattle has no one who can consistently take people on, they have no one besides Dempsey who can consistently create chances in the run of play, and for some reason the consensus seems to be it's Valdez's fault, well if Valdez isn't getting service can we really blame him? I can't. I understand your perspective of moving Morris up top, but I honestly wonder how much that will help given the lack of truly creative players the Sounders currently have. It's obviously to early to tell and admittedly I hope my assumptions are wrong.

 

[Uncle Si]

Fair enough knowone... and when i read Seatown's comments on the 2-3-3-2 it did reflect recognition of the higher line of the outside backs. that is formation based on system as you say. Cruyff's Barca teams used to play a 433, but in reality as the game played out they had 7 lines of depth... 1(GK)- 2 (CBs)-1 (CDM)-2 (R/LWB)-2 (L/RAM)-2(L/RW)-1 (CF)... so that's where the fluidity of the formation comes into play. Still a 433... but those depth positions are where they players take up as the ball moves out of transition into possession. Either way, I sort of love the discussion.

I don't believe Valdez is at fault for the Sounders concerns getting forward. I don't think he's the right fit. He's a true target 9. As you noted, with Dempsey dropping deeper and deeper to pick up the ball because the mids aren't winning it high enough, Valdez is more and more on an island. Which leaves Morris essentially standing around doing nothing. I only saw once Morris overlap Valdez and receive a ball.

Put Morris in that spot and you have the same formation, different dynamic. Now, instead of someone holding up play, you have someone running into diagonal channels or even able to run over the top. You can spring your transition (in the way Leicester use Vardy) and at worst flip the field to start your press. Now Dempsey is helping support the attack from the other half, your wingbacks are able to move up from the defensive 3rd and your mids are able to recover their shape.

I don't think the Sounders have the players at the moment to possess and move the ball through spaces with enough consistency. As you said, they lack attacking quality and creativity. Sporting, for what it's worth, struggles with the same thing. They were dull until they got the man advantage and even then used the man up to pump possession stats. I truly believe they wanted 0-0 and were happy with that even a man up. Any goal they scored would be a bonus. Disappointing.

I

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm really not sure what to make of the Sounders formation at the moment. Seattle has no one who can consistently take people on, they have no one besides Dempsey who can consistently create chances in the run of play, and for some reason the consensus seems to be it's Valdez's fault, well if Valdez isn't getting service can we really blame him? I can't. I understand your perspective of moving Morris up top, but I honestly wonder how much that will help given the lack of truly creative players the Sounders currently have. It's obviously to early to tell and admittedly I hope my assumptions are wrong.

Valdez is getting plenty of service, he's just not showing the quality when he does get the ball.

Just one match, and we really were the better side before Fisher got his red card. So we'll see going forward. But yeah, I'm just not seeing the hype with Valdez right now as a dependable forward that along with Morris can make up for Oba's goals.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Just as we thought, Sounders pursuing DP midfielder before the May transfer window closes.

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/03 ... totti-roma

No mention of specific players.

 

[Uncle Si]

Im far more concerned with what the Sounders are doing with Morris than whether they are able to replace Martins.

They have brought in one of the most talented young attacking talents in the country and have immediately moved him out of position.

If Morris is behind Bobby Wood by the time the Copa America comes around he will be asking some serious questions.

 

[Glasgow Seahawk]

Looks like a fee agreed with Man City for Samir Nasri. Yes!!!!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Looks like a fee agreed with Man City for Samir Nasri. Yes!!!!

Hoax

http://www.sounderatheart.com/sounders- ... than-later