Seattle Sounders 2015 Season Thread

[Uncle Si]

That's a fair say, Rob. I enjoy going to watch the Tulsa Athletics, they're a 4th-tier team here. Good fun, local lads playing their hearts out.

MLS just doesn't do anything for me.

And plus Americans want a US soccer league, so MLS is the top quality league in the US, in my opinion. It'll get better in the next several years.

How is it going to get better in your opinion? Not disagreeing with your statement (I mean I do, but thats a topic I covered in great lenghths a page back) but describe why its going to get better.

This is the crux of peaches statement (and similar to thoughts I have posted in this very thread). Its germane to the general discussion of the MLS as a viable soccer outlet. I love going to Minnesota United games. Not the best product, but fun to watch and like 10 bucks. Not sure I would pay $50 to watch a Sounders game (if I lived in the area). Is this not worthy of the topic?

The Sounders thread is the general MLS thread, as no other exists. Peaches doesnt see the quality in play, Smurf ties it to more of sentiment than standard. This is part of a discussion.

Don't respond to posts unless you're going to contribute something to the conversation. Telling someone to post somewhere else isnt. Smurf showed you the way.

 

[Seabhac]

That's a fair say, Rob. I enjoy going to watch the Tulsa Athletics, they're a 4th-tier team here. Good fun, local lads playing their hearts out.

MLS just doesn't do anything for me.

And plus Americans want a US soccer league, so MLS is the top quality league in the US, in my opinion. It'll get better in the next several years.

How is it going to get better in your opinion? Not disagreeing with your statement (I mean I do, but thats a topic I covered in great lenghths a page back) but describe why its going to get better.

This is the crux of peaches statement (and similar to thoughts I have posted in this very thread). Its germane to the general discussion of the MLS as a viable soccer outlet. I love going to Minnesota United games. Not the best product, but fun to watch and like 10 bucks. Not sure I would pay $50 to watch a Sounders game (if I lived in the area). Is this not worthy of the topic?

The Sounders thread is the general MLS thread, as no other exists. Peaches doesnt see the quality in play, Smurf ties it to more of sentiment than standard. This is part of a discussion.

Don't respond to posts unless you're going to contribute something to the conversation. Telling someone to post somewhere else isnt. Smurf showed you the way.

OK here's a story.
I was at the World Cup in Japan in 2002. I was on a train with hundreds of Irish Soccer fans to Nigata to watch Ireland Play Germany. Standing next to me was a man and his two sons. I asked him if he was Irish and going to the match. He said, no I'm American and I came to Japan to watch the World Cup with my boys.

I asked him why he was going to Ireland V Germany and not the USA V Portugal which was played a few hours earlier. He said he wanted to see "quality" football and didn't think that the USA would go very far - He also wasn't aware that the USA were playing Portugal that day. So...I told him that the USA had just defeated the highly fancied Portugese 3-2.
I wasn't mean to him but I pointed out that the USA were a quality side and that they could use all the support they could get etc etc etc.

The point of my story is this - Lots of Soccers 'early adopters' in the US don't think that the quality is up to the standards that they see in Europe and consequently shy away from "investing' themselves in the MLS and the US game. Is this an American thing? If we're not the best then I'm not interested - is that it?

I used to go to Sounders before they were in the MLS in Starfire. I watched the support grow from a few hundred loyal individuals to one of the best attended and supported teams in the World. Yes the World. The passion is there. It's real and it's growing. At Sounders Timbers game last year I sat beside a German lad who had travelled from Dortmund to be at the game. He was a Sounders Supporter. That opened my eyes to the fact that the MLS is growing both in reputation and quality.

At Spurs Vs Sounders last summer it was 3-3. Sounders should have had 6 - they were just a better team on the day.
Now before you say "that was just a friendly for Spurs" Well it was for the Sounders too. You can only judge from what you see in front of you.

Heres a fact - USA will win a World Cup before Ireland will. USA will win a World Cup before England does again. The national team are no longer the whipping boys of the World, The system is set up so one of these years a crop of great players will come through and change everything.

Quit being snobs - support the game, get on board.

Who knows where this journey will end.

 

[Uncle Si]

Seab...

Get over yourself mate. I'm not some Eurocentric soccer hipster. I work in the Academy program affiliated with an MLS team. I have been helping to develop players for years. Many went off to college, 5 are now professional. Two are in Europe, one is in England. My high school assistant plays professionally in Italy (2nd tier, loaned out to a Swedish outfit at the moment). I work with a soccer organization that helps fund soccer programs in Haiti and other communities devastated by natural disasters and poverty developed by a player who both started and had an assist in that US-Portugal game in 2002. Many of the coaches involved directly in that program work in my club. We are trying to build the game here.

I watched the Sounders in the early 80s when the "support group" was in the tens of thousands. I watched the league fold. Amazingly, the MLS was very close to doing the same damned thing yesterday. (or atleast going into work stoppage) I've been "supporting the game" if you will for decades, and given quite a lot back in the process. Does that make me a snob? This is not a resume check, but you can calm down on your defensive assumptions about product and quality. I watched a fully functioning Man United team put 8 past the Sounders a couple years ago. I feel I can ask how people see the league getting better without being accused a "snob"

The question of the progress and development of the MLS is a legitimate one. Nothing to do with what I believe is the best quality. Soccer in the states is developing.Players are being identified, supported and developed like never before. They are leaving their DAs and being signed to Academy and Reserve teams all over the world (more than you probably can guess at). Many of our Academies, including MLS teams, have affiliations with European and South American clubs in place. This is symbiotic, but also competition to the MLS. The Reserve league will help. Lots of Americans in the last few years have signed to small contracts with lower level Euro and SA teams. That trend may stop.

The question is, how do you see the league itself getting better? I am certain that American (and cooperatively the USMNT) will always be progressing and developing better players. The "system" you mention is something I described in detail a page ago. But that is not the MLS. It will always be a challenge for them to produce a product that can compete with the big Euro leagues. Why is asking how it can get better is such a snobby question?

And before you answer the obvious "trickle down effect" of a strong support system, that would contradict why you believe the US would win a World Cup before England does again.

It was a legitimate question posed. How one guy in Japan felt 12 years ago isn't an trend, an answer or even a hint at how people view American soccer in this country then, now or in between.

 

[Seabhac]

No the snobby part is saying "Not sure I would pay $50 to watch a Sounders game (if I lived in the area)"
Thats you being elitest and saying that fans who fork over their hard earned dosh to follow the local team are f**king idiots.

I understand that you live in part of the country where Soccer is irrelevant. But here in Seattle it has taken on a life of its own (PDX too for that matter) Sounders are the number 2 sports franchise in the PNW - well supported and improving EVERY year. Yes - the MLS is getting better. Atmospheres in the Stadiums and quality of football on the pitch. The players are being siphoned off but the structure and the fans are providing a sound basis for growth.

It will come.

 

[Seabhac]

Actually - Come to Seattle for a Sounders - Timbers Game. See the game day atmosphere first hand.
It's different that the Chicago Sting / Cosmos days.... The worm is turning.

 

[Uncle Si]

No the snobby part is saying "Not sure I would pay $50 to watch a Sounders game (if I lived in the area)"
Thats you being elitest and saying that fans who fork over their hard earned dosh to follow the local team are f**king idiots.

I understand that you live in part of the country where Soccer is irrelevant. But here in Seattle it has taken on a life of its own (PDX too for that matter) Sounders are the number 2 sports franchise in the PNW - well supported and improving EVERY year. Yes - the MLS is getting better. Atmospheres in the Stadiums and quality of football on the pitch. The players are being siphoned off but the structure and the fans are providing a sound basis for growth.

It will come.

There's the seabhac we knew.

Its not being elitist. Ive been to plenty of Sounders games. I was born and raised and played soccer extensively in the Seattle area. Played high school ball in Oregon. Played ODP there and worked with Clive Charles when he was University of Portland in camps and clinics. I don't need a lesson on soccer in the PNW. But thanks for having a go.

I've been to a handful of MLS games. I'm not that interested. What other people do with their money is their own business. You've not heard me tell someone its a waste of time. On the contrary, I get paid helping develop players who play in the MLS. 12 Academies with 20+ affiliates within 6 hours of 4 MLS teams and Minneapolis on the brink of being added. I was at that meeting. Did you go to the Sounders pitch to the MLS for acceptance? Irrelevant indeed. Whose the elitist?

You are being assumptive, hyperbolic and hypocritical. But that's fine. You obviously have your head in the know. While you're in the stands I'm on a field or a dome or a classroom trying to help the game you want to watch.

The question was quality on the field. I know quite well the atmosphere is there, and in other MLS stadiums. Its great. It is at Stoke too. How is their quality?

 

[Seabhac]

No the snobby part is saying "Not sure I would pay $50 to watch a Sounders game (if I lived in the area)"
Thats you being elitest and saying that fans who fork over their hard earned dosh to follow the local team are f**king idiots.

I understand that you live in part of the country where Soccer is irrelevant. But here in Seattle it has taken on a life of its own (PDX too for that matter) Sounders are the number 2 sports franchise in the PNW - well supported and improving EVERY year. Yes - the MLS is getting better. Atmospheres in the Stadiums and quality of football on the pitch. The players are being siphoned off but the structure and the fans are providing a sound basis for growth.

It will come.

There's the seabhac we knew.

Its not being elitist. Ive been to plenty of Sounders games. I was born and raised and played soccer extensively in the Seattle area. Played high school ball in Oregon. Played ODP there and worked with Clive Charles when he was University of Portland in camps and clinics. I don't need a lesson on soccer in the PNW. But thanks for having a go.

I've been to a handful of MLS games. I'm not that interested. What other people do with their money is their own business. You've not heard me tell someone its a waste of time. On the contrary, I get paid helping develop players who play in the MLS. 12 Academies with 20+ affiliates within 6 hours of 4 MLS teams and Minneapolis on the brink of being added. I was at that meeting. Did you go to the Sounders pitch to the MLS for acceptance? Irrelevant indeed. Whose the elitist?

You are being assumptive, hyperbolic and hypocritical. But that's fine. You obviously have your head in the know. While you're in the stands I'm on a field or a dome or a classroom trying to help the game you want to watch.

The question was quality on the field. I know quite well the atmosphere is there, and in other MLS stadiums. Its great. It is at Stoke too. How is their quality?

I'm not sure what you want the MLS to be - a league full of Barcelonas and Real Madrids and other ELITE clubs? I would take a league full of Stokes that's well supported and always improving any day of the week.

 

[SeatownJay]

The more I read about the new CBA, the more convinced I am that MLS will not take the final step forward to being a competitive league until it's forced to give up it's single-entity status.

 

[Uncle Si]

No the snobby part is saying "Not sure I would pay $50 to watch a Sounders game (if I lived in the area)"
Thats you being elitest and saying that fans who fork over their hard earned dosh to follow the local team are f**king idiots.

I understand that you live in part of the country where Soccer is irrelevant. But here in Seattle it has taken on a life of its own (PDX too for that matter) Sounders are the number 2 sports franchise in the PNW - well supported and improving EVERY year. Yes - the MLS is getting better. Atmospheres in the Stadiums and quality of football on the pitch. The players are being siphoned off but the structure and the fans are providing a sound basis for growth.

It will come.

There's the seabhac we knew.

Its not being elitist. Ive been to plenty of Sounders games. I was born and raised and played soccer extensively in the Seattle area. Played high school ball in Oregon. Played ODP there and worked with Clive Charles when he was University of Portland in camps and clinics. I don't need a lesson on soccer in the PNW. But thanks for having a go.

I've been to a handful of MLS games. I'm not that interested. What other people do with their money is their own business. You've not heard me tell someone its a waste of time. On the contrary, I get paid helping develop players who play in the MLS. 12 Academies with 20+ affiliates within 6 hours of 4 MLS teams and Minneapolis on the brink of being added. I was at that meeting. Did you go to the Sounders pitch to the MLS for acceptance? Irrelevant indeed. Whose the elitist?

You are being assumptive, hyperbolic and hypocritical. But that's fine. You obviously have your head in the know. While you're in the stands I'm on a field or a dome or a classroom trying to help the game you want to watch.

The question was quality on the field. I know quite well the atmosphere is there, and in other MLS stadiums. Its great. It is at Stoke too. How is their quality?

I'm not sure what you want the MLS to be - a league full of Barcelonas and Real Madrids and other ELITE clubs? I would take a league full of Stokes that's well supported and always improving any day of the week.

You can read the posts if you're up to it? Or just ask questions I've already answered.

I take the league to be developing. I take soccer in the US to be developing. The question (its a question, offer an answer instead of more questions) was based around the assertion the standard of play will improve in the next few years.

The standard of soccer, both in the development of its players and the passion, understanding and interest of its fans is growing more than just what you see at a Sounders game. I honestly don't think you are aware of it. Alot of people I work with, including the affiliate club, are generally concerned that the elite developed players will jump to foreign leagues rather than stay.

I'm not begrudging you your love for the Sounders. I was a passionate supporter of them at one point as well. The question was about the quality of the play on the field.

Give me a reason why you think it will develop in the next few years? I'm earnestly interested. If it doesnt matter what the play looks like to you then so be it. It's not a condemnation of the league or its players. Just a response to a statement.

 

[Seabhac]

No the snobby part is saying "Not sure I would pay $50 to watch a Sounders game (if I lived in the area)"
Thats you being elitest and saying that fans who fork over their hard earned dosh to follow the local team are f**king idiots.

I understand that you live in part of the country where Soccer is irrelevant. But here in Seattle it has taken on a life of its own (PDX too for that matter) Sounders are the number 2 sports franchise in the PNW - well supported and improving EVERY year. Yes - the MLS is getting better. Atmospheres in the Stadiums and quality of football on the pitch. The players are being siphoned off but the structure and the fans are providing a sound basis for growth.

It will come.

There's the seabhac we knew.

Its not being elitist. Ive been to plenty of Sounders games. I was born and raised and played soccer extensively in the Seattle area. Played high school ball in Oregon. Played ODP there and worked with Clive Charles when he was University of Portland in camps and clinics. I don't need a lesson on soccer in the PNW. But thanks for having a go.

I've been to a handful of MLS games. I'm not that interested. What other people do with their money is their own business. You've not heard me tell someone its a waste of time. On the contrary, I get paid helping develop players who play in the MLS. 12 Academies with 20+ affiliates within 6 hours of 4 MLS teams and Minneapolis on the brink of being added. I was at that meeting. Did you go to the Sounders pitch to the MLS for acceptance? Irrelevant indeed. Whose the elitist?

You are being assumptive, hyperbolic and hypocritical. But that's fine. You obviously have your head in the know. While you're in the stands I'm on a field or a dome or a classroom trying to help the game you want to watch.

The question was quality on the field. I know quite well the atmosphere is there, and in other MLS stadiums. Its great. It is at Stoke too. How is their quality?

I'm not sure what you want the MLS to be - a league full of Barcelonas and Real Madrids and other ELITE clubs? I would take a league full of Stokes that's well supported and always improving any day of the week.

You can read the posts if you're up to it? Or just ask questions I've already answered.

I take the league to be developing. I take soccer in the US to be developing. The question (its a question, offer an answer instead of more questions) was based around the assertion the standard of play will improve in the next few years.

The standard of soccer, both in the development of its players and the passion, understanding and interest of its fans is growing more than just what you see at a Sounders game. I honestly don't think you are aware of it. Alot of people I work with, including the affiliate club, are generally concerned that the elite developed players will jump to foreign leagues rather than stay.

I'm not begrudging you your love for the Sounders. I was a passionate supporter of them at one point as well. The question was about the quality of the play on the field.

Give me a reason why you think it will develop in the next few years? I'm earnestly interested. If it doesnt matter what the play looks like to you then so be it. It's not a condemnation of the league or its players. Just a response to a statement.

OK So...I spent my formative years going to League of Ireland games - small crowds, no real youth system and a next door neigbour with tons of cash and more importantly the ability to fulfill dreams. (3 of my mates were signed on with Coventry as apprentices but only one of them made it as a pro). Most players are taken out of Ireland before playing for an LOI team.

Soccer in Ireland is weaker now than back then. The arrival of professional rugby and a good British Island League means the pathway to professional/glory is there and kids now put Rugby above Soccer (no harm done as Ireland are now number 2 to the All blacks in the World)

League of Ireland is piss poor compared to other European Leagues. There was talk of and all British Island League with a Dublin Team and Celtic Rangers but it never got off the ground. Had this happened, Ireland would have gotten to keep their youth players and the hundreds of thousands of the fans that support United/Liverpool/Arsenil/Celtic etc would have become Dublin fans.

The MLS is similar to LOI (and other poor European Leagues) in that the best players get snatched up by the vacume that is the big clubs youth systems. Massive rosters of young talent - much of it going to waste .
The MLS is different. If the Sounders and Portland (and Kansas to some degree) are the benchmarks for how the MLS will be supported in the future then from a popularity point of view the sport is headed in the right direction. Even if half the fans are only there to get drunk and have a sing song that's how football cultures are created. You bring your kids they tell their friends and next thing you know it has a life of its own.

Once the fan culture is deeply rooted then real change will take place. The trophies will become meaningful. Possibility of structural change. Autonomous clubs with deep pockets bringing talent in and retaining homegrown players for life. As the fans become more powerful the game will change. This is all a far cry from the NASL and maybe 20 years more down the road for MLS. But it is happening. If you told me 20 years ago that any City in the USA would have a Soccer team that draws as much as Liverpool every week and has a unique fan culture, I would have said "no f**king way". But yet here we are.

I am and always will be a United fan. But I love the sport . So I will go to every Sounders home game (and away to Timbers and Whitecaps) and sing my Bollix off - that's just who I am and I have faith in the future no matter how imperfect things are today.

 

[Uncle Si]

Fair enough Seabhac. And I agree wholeheartedly. Honestly, the actual skill of the players on the field does not have to Real and Barca to be fun.

Understand where I am coming from. I am not disparaging the league. I enjoy watching the semi pro team out here. The quality is far below what the MLS can put out. Atmosphere is great. Small, but I can drink, lounge in the lawn and watch soccer.

The culture behind the MLS is already entrenched. That's not in question. The popularity of soccer in the US is deeper than most people realize. Also not in question. Really, the discussion was more about if the MLS can draw the talent (both on the field and on the touchline) to put out a really strong product. It probably doesn't matter, to be honest, in determining if the league will survive. As you said, fans are coming, growing, etc. The interest in the sport from a development standpoint is not deterred by whether the MLS teams are "good" or "great".

Question may have seemed like I was baiting Sounders fans. Really not. That would be slandering my own environment given my affiliation with Sporting. Just curious to get people's thoughts.

 

[Seabhac]

Fair enough Seabhac. And I agree wholeheartedly. Honestly, the actual skill of the players on the field does not have to Real and Barca to be fun.

Understand where I am coming from. I am not disparaging the league. I enjoy watching the semi pro team out here. The quality is far below what the MLS can put out. Atmosphere is great. Small, but I can drink, lounge in the lawn and watch soccer.

The culture behind the MLS is already entrenched. That's not in question. The popularity of soccer in the US is deeper than most people realize. Also not in question. Really, the discussion was more about if the MLS can draw the talent (both on the field and on the touchline) to put out a really strong product. It probably doesn't matter, to be honest, in determining if the league will survive. As you said, fans are coming, growing, etc. The interest in the sport from a development standpoint is not deterred by whether the MLS teams are "good" or "great".

Question may have seemed like I was baiting Sounders fans. Really not. That would be slandering my own environment given my affiliation with Sporting. Just curious to get people's thoughts.

OK man No Worries -

Now the reason I think the USA will win a World Cup before England is that the "pathway" in England for young players has gotten too competitive with the foreign influx of youth due to the two hour rule. So if the professional coaching isn't there for young English players the well will dry up. It's the case already. It's the flip side of a league being too wealthy - the national team suffers.

USA (sports in general) are strong in coaching and fitness and in time World class talent will emerge. Water that seedling....

 

[Smurf]

Si hit on the biggest point i have right now. Managers. The MLS has shit when it comes to Managers. Sigi, Arena, Kinnear, and somewhat Porter should be out mid table level coaches. Not ones we put in the top 4.

The style some teams in MLS is apalling. We are a league with 2 arsenals, and a chelsea and 17 stokes.

 

[Uncle Si]

USA (sports in general) are strong in coaching and fitness and in time World class talent will emerge. Water that seedling....

Kind of what my role is out here in soccer nowhere land. The development of the coaching needs to match the progress of the players, if you ask me. It kind of does. I think there is too much English influence at the moment. Nothing against the English, but they want to make it a replica of England's youth system. That may be in the right direction, but as I said earlier in the thread, this country is not only 6x the population, massively bigger in terms of distance, but also far more diverse. I see us more in the German mold. Our issue here is that while we can mold tactics and hammer discipline and fitness, our training rarely permits for the technical player to thrive. Its changing, but slowly.

There are some players too. Names you will be associating with the national team by the end of this cycle (I hope)

 

[Seabhac]

Nice new Jerseys this year.

 

[Uncle Si]

White is classy

 

[Uncle Si]

So I was just reading the MLS Power Rankings article on ESPN. I have to be honest, it felt like a lot of the names are re-hashed.

So, MLS (Sounders fans), who are the exciting players in the MLS this season?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So I was just reading the MLS Power Rankings article on ESPN. I have to be honest, it felt like a lot of the names are re-hashed.

So, MLS (Sounders fans), who are the exciting players in the MLS this season?

I'm excited to see Altidore and Bradley together, I think they'll both have big years playing off each other. Not sure if Orlando will be good or not, but they should at least be exciting to watch with Kaka, Mwanga and Shea.

 

[Uncle Si]

So I was just reading the MLS Power Rankings article on ESPN. I have to be honest, it felt like a lot of the names are re-hashed.

So, MLS (Sounders fans), who are the exciting players in the MLS this season?

I'm excited to see Altidore and Bradley together, I think they'll both have big years playing off each other. Not sure if Orlando will be good or not, but they should at least be exciting to watch with Kaka, Mwanga and Shea.

Yeah, but these are not "exciting" players, just pros.

If we did this list for the Prem, for example, we would not start with Danny Welbeck, Steven Gerrard, John Terry and Stuart Downing.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So I was just reading the MLS Power Rankings article on ESPN. I have to be honest, it felt like a lot of the names are re-hashed.

So, MLS (Sounders fans), who are the exciting players in the MLS this season?

I'm excited to see Altidore and Bradley together, I think they'll both have big years playing off each other. Not sure if Orlando will be good or not, but they should at least be exciting to watch with Kaka, Mwanga and Shea.

Yeah, but these are not "exciting" players, just pros.

If we did this list for the Prem, for example, we would not start with Danny Welbeck, Steven Gerrard, John Terry and Stuart Downing.

You crack me up Si, you ask open ended questions, then crap on people for not following some unexplained rules to your vague question.

I think most soccer fans would categorize players like Kaka, Jozy and Bradley as "exciting" to watch. Sorry I didn't bring my crystal ball today to divine what you were thinking when asking the question.