Seattle Sounders 2015 Season Thread

[SeatownJay]

In expansion news:

Minnesota United are emerging as favorites to gain MLS expansion of those left in the "bidding". With strong fan support, and supposedly a new outdoor stadium in the pipeline it looks like the northern US could be adding another team to the mix.


In Sounders news, Ozzie Alonso looks like he will rejoin training with the club next week. So expect Azira and Pineda in the middle of the park vs San Jose.

They are going to expand to a cold weather city with an outdoor stadium? Does this indicate that MLS will moving to the "normal" soccer schedule like the rest of the world, or are the Sounders going to have to play in -10 degree weather in Minny in February?

The MLS doesn't play in February. The season runs from March to October with playoffs in November.

 

[Smurf]

Jay is correct. The rest of the world insists on play during Winter for some reason...

 

[Trenchbroom]

Thanks fellas.

Jesus, I don't know what I was thinking, not sure how I got that confused...

 

[Smurf]

Thanks fellas.

Jesus, I don't know what I was thinking, not sure how I got that confused...

Happens dude. Don't sweat it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

In expansion news:

Minnesota United are emerging as favorites to gain MLS expansion of those left in the "bidding". With strong fan support, and supposedly a new outdoor stadium in the pipeline it looks like the northern US could be adding another team to the mix..

Anyone else worried that the MLS is expanding WAY too much? I mean, it's already a lesser than saturated product, how many more greedy franchise fees do the current owners want to line their pockets with before it's enough?

If anything I'd like to see half the teams with expanded payroll to rival other top North and South American leagues. Can't do that with the bottom dwellers pulling down the cap number.

 

[Uncle Si]

In expansion news:

Minnesota United are emerging as favorites to gain MLS expansion of those left in the "bidding". With strong fan support, and supposedly a new outdoor stadium in the pipeline it looks like the northern US could be adding another team to the mix..

Anyone else worried that the MLS is expanding WAY too much? I mean, it's already a lesser than saturated product, how many more greedy franchise fees do the current owners want to line their pockets with before it's enough?

Yes, one of the reasons why there has been a call for promotion/relegation. The current MLS product is not a strong one, talent wise. It is succeeding (relatively) but if the product goes down, it will begin to struggle. Once you start contracting teams, the league is not far behing.

Minnesota's franchise will be interesting. I would like to suggest it will do well. I do not trust the fan base out here to fully support an MLS team though. Not consistently atleast.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Yeah I watched most of the NYCFC vs Orlando match, that was NOT good soccer.

Seems like the MLS success plan is now based on over paying aging stars, then surrounding them with USL level players. Once the novelty of watching guys like Kaka and David Villa wears off, everyone's going to tune out, even MLS fans.

 

[Uncle Si]

Yeah I watched most of the NYCFC vs Orlando match, that was NOT good soccer.

Seems like the MLS success plan is now based on over paying aging stars, then surrounding them with USL level players. Once the novelty of watching guys like Kaka and David Villa wears off, everyone's going to tune out, even MLS fans.

Well, that's why I had asked about the "exciting players" coming up.

MLS' challenge is to keep its fans interested in its product. It's not really competition with baseball or basketball/hockey playoffs, but more about how easily soccer fans can access matches across the globe.

It's been my concern for awhile. Every league needs superstars.

 

[hawkfan68]

Yeah I watched most of the NYCFC vs Orlando match, that was NOT good soccer.

Seems like the MLS success plan is now based on over paying aging stars, then surrounding them with USL level players. Once the novelty of watching guys like Kaka and David Villa wears off, everyone's going to tune out, even MLS fans.

That's where the dilemma is right now. Without the stars, the recognizable players, most people would not watch the MLS. They need the stars. Would most people watch two expansion franchises play each other without Kaka and Villa? I don't think so.

 

[Uncle Si]

Yeah I watched most of the NYCFC vs Orlando match, that was NOT good soccer.

Seems like the MLS success plan is now based on over paying aging stars, then surrounding them with USL level players. Once the novelty of watching guys like Kaka and David Villa wears off, everyone's going to tune out, even MLS fans.

That's where the dilemma is right now. Without the stars, the recognizable players, most people would not watch the MLS. They need the stars. Would most people watch two expansion franchises play each other without Kaka and Villa? I don't think so.

Agree and disagree. The league has become quite sustainable in its current model. The issue, really, is can they continue to sustain and even develop based on the model. Adding new teams only thins the market.

They need to develop stars to play along with the aged vets of Europe. The issue (and its a good one for the players) is that the better players in MLS are going to be snatched up sooner to Europe.

The league would be better off (imo) in running its market a little tighter, with less teams in smaller stadiums. But what's done is done. Adding teams will make the sustainability difficult. But, right now they are feeding off the general growing interest in soccer as a sport. Hopefully the development in the reserve and youth systems will support the top level teams.

Remember, alot of these teams have or are developing symbiotic relationships with European clubs. I think "salvation" may come in those relationships, where MLS is sending its best and brightest (to be fair, this wouldn't be many) to its "parent" clubs while the MLS hosts some of the bright stars not quite ready for the first 11s of the Citys, Chelseas, Arsenals of the world. (chosen because they have these relationships here already).

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Yeah I watched most of the NYCFC vs Orlando match, that was NOT good soccer.

Seems like the MLS success plan is now based on over paying aging stars, then surrounding them with USL level players. Once the novelty of watching guys like Kaka and David Villa wears off, everyone's going to tune out, even MLS fans.

That's where the dilemma is right now. Without the stars, the recognizable players, most people would not watch the MLS. They need the stars. Would most people watch two expansion franchises play each other without Kaka and Villa? I don't think so.

I'm OK with the DP rule, in fact I thought from day one that it was a stroke of brilliance.

My problem with the MLS is how they distribute said DP's and the other 27-28 players on team rosters. Why are Altidore and Bradley playing in Canada? Why is the USMNT allocation process steeped in secrecy?

The US does not have the development system in place that fosters young vibrant talent in order to spark interest in the MLS beyond a very small percentage of die hard soccer fans.......and those fans are REALLY only fans of their club, they have zero interest in watching Columbus play Houston on a Thursday night on ESPN. Which is why the ratings are abysmal.

Talent is key, and specifically young talent. If the MLS ever wants to move beyond just being a nursing home for aging soccer stars it MUST focus most of it's resources into development and attraction of quality young international talent.

 

[SeatownJay]

I'm OK with the DP rule, in fact I thought from day one that it was a stroke of brilliance.

My problem with the MLS is how they distribute said DP's and the other 27-28 players on team rosters. Why are Altidore and Bradley playing in Canada? Why is the USMNT allocation process steeped in secrecy?

It's because the MLS has a single-entity structure, meaning the players sign contracts with MLS, not with the individual teams, then MLS works with the teams to decide who goes where. It doesn't have to be fair or transparent, even though the fans and media wish it were.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm OK with the DP rule, in fact I thought from day one that it was a stroke of brilliance.

My problem with the MLS is how they distribute said DP's and the other 27-28 players on team rosters. Why are Altidore and Bradley playing in Canada? Why is the USMNT allocation process steeped in secrecy?

It's because the MLS has a single-entity structure, meaning the players sign contracts with MLS, not with the individual teams, then MLS works with the teams to decide who goes where. It doesn't have to be fair or transparent, even though the fans and media wish it were.

I understand all this, but then the league is never going to truly be a parity league as it claims because the lower half of the clubs are NEVER going to get the DP's necessary to compete with the top half.

So if that's the case, then just cut the clubs in half and raise the cap to 25-30 million and let's play some damn soccer. Instead of pretending that we care about being some all inclusive parity league where every club can compete.

 

[Uncle Si]

Yeah I watched most of the NYCFC vs Orlando match, that was NOT good soccer.

Seems like the MLS success plan is now based on over paying aging stars, then surrounding them with USL level players. Once the novelty of watching guys like Kaka and David Villa wears off, everyone's going to tune out, even MLS fans.

That's where the dilemma is right now. Without the stars, the recognizable players, most people would not watch the MLS. They need the stars. Would most people watch two expansion franchises play each other without Kaka and Villa? I don't think so.

The US does not have the development system in place that fosters young vibrant talent in order to spark interest in the MLS beyond a very small percentage of die hard soccer fans.......and those fans are REALLY only fans of their club, they have zero interest in watching Columbus play Houston on a Thursday night on ESPN. Which is why the ratings are abysmal.

Talent is key, and specifically young talent. If the MLS ever wants to move beyond just being a nursing home for aging soccer stars it MUST focus most of it's resources into development and attraction of quality young international talent.

This is wrong. I don't know how many posts need to be made to further discuss it. To each his own I suppose.

The MLS is far more focused on its development of young talent than i think you are aware of (boy, this all sounds so familiar). The key is not developing the players. They are developing. The key is either keeping them in the MLS, or setting up ways in which the MLS gets keeps these players as loans.

Yedlin is a perfect example. Why is he in Tottenham at the moment. Not playing there. Why wouldn't Spurs lend him back to play full 90s? Same, if not better, than lending him to Blackburn.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

This is wrong. I don't know how many posts need to be made to further discuss it. To each his own I suppose.

The MLS is far more focused on its development of young talent than i think you are aware of (boy, this all sounds so familiar). The key is not developing the players. They are developing. The key is either keeping them in the MLS, or setting up ways in which the MLS gets keeps these players as loans.

Yedlin is a perfect example. Why is he in Tottenham at the moment. Not playing there. Why wouldn't Spurs lend him back to play full 90s? Same, if not better, than lending him to Blackburn.

You named one player, and your "young exciting" MLS players to watch fell on deaf ears. Not because people don't want to discuss it, because the players don't exist.

Most of our USMNT roster is filled with young players, but they're mostly duel citizenship players that grew up overseas.

So are we REALLY developing US born and raised world class players? Not sure how you can say this, because it's just not true. Yedlin is the exception, not the example.

 

[Uncle Si]

This is wrong. I don't know how many posts need to be made to further discuss it. To each his own I suppose.

The MLS is far more focused on its development of young talent than i think you are aware of (boy, this all sounds so familiar). The key is not developing the players. They are developing. The key is either keeping them in the MLS, or setting up ways in which the MLS gets keeps these players as loans.

Yedlin is a perfect example. Why is he in Tottenham at the moment. Not playing there. Why wouldn't Spurs lend him back to play full 90s? Same, if not better, than lending him to Blackburn.

You named one player, and your "young exciting" MLS players to watch fell on deaf ears. Not because people don't want to discuss it, because the players don't exist.

Most of our USMNT roster is filled with young players, but they're mostly duel citizenship players that grew up overseas.

So are we REALLY developing US born and raised world class players? Not sure how you can say this, because it's just not true. Yedlin is the exception, not the example.

Sgt.. you need to learn more about the sport in this country. Honestly man. I know you say you were into the youth system, but it doesn't seem you're all that aware of what's happening these days.

Most of our USMNT roster is filled with young players with duel citizenship? Like who? Altidore? (your "exciting player to watch" from a previous post, remember?) Bradley? Howard? Yedlin? Dempsey? Beckerman? Cameron? Bedoya? Besler? Zusi? Beasley? These were your primary players outside Jermain Jones and Fabian Johnson in the World Cup. All American born. 9 started in the last game against Belgium. Altidore was out with injury.

Do you want to go further? the squad that played its latest friendly on February 8 featured ZERO duel citizen players.

Smurf answered the "exciting young players" just fine. You probably didnt read it. And you didnt contribute because you don't know have a clue on the players (as reflected in your "exciting players" list). You're banging on about development but you have little information to support it. You change the wording to "World Class" because you know its the only thing left to support your assumption. You obviously don't know much about the development system in this country (a discussion we had just a couple weeks ago), know little about the young players this country is producing (honestly, try googling, you may be shocked how many American born players are playing overseas at a high level right now, ages 18-28), where they are playing and what kind of impact they will have (despite several posts naming them by myself and Smurf). Its fine. But when someone comes along to try and help you see its much further along then you may realize, try reading about it instead of shooting it down. Or.. just go to any MLS website and scroll through its academy pages. Go to the USMNT site and look at its U23 roster, U21 roster, etc.

You are talking out both sides of your mouth, and contradicting yourself along the way. Christ, I was accused of being an "elitist" here two weeks ago, and now i'm defending the league and still taking shots.

The biggest issue this nation will have in the near future is keeping these young players from leaving to play overseas.

 

[Smurf]

In expansion news:

Minnesota United are emerging as favorites to gain MLS expansion of those left in the "bidding". With strong fan support, and supposedly a new outdoor stadium in the pipeline it looks like the northern US could be adding another team to the mix..

Anyone else worried that the MLS is expanding WAY too much? I mean, it's already a lesser than saturated product, how many more greedy franchise fees do the current owners want to line their pockets with before it's enough?

Yes, one of the reasons why there has been a call for promotion/relegation. The current MLS product is not a strong one, talent wise. It is succeeding (relatively) but if the product goes down, it will begin to struggle. Once you start contracting teams, the league is not far behing.

Minnesota's franchise will be interesting. I would like to suggest it will do well. I do not trust the fan base out here to fully support an MLS team though. Not consistently atleast.

I'm a bit worried too. I honestly thought we would have a break after Atlanta and Miami (Assuming becks can get it done). But I guess the league has a plan to keep expanding. At this rate, I can see us hitting 30 before slowing.


With that being said the Talent pool has steadily improved over the past 6 years and will continue to do so. The league is becoming more attractive to players out of country, including aging stars, and each club is signing more and more homegrown talent via its academies.

I think the leagues player pool has improved despite Expansion.

 

[Uncle Si]

In expansion news:

Minnesota United are emerging as favorites to gain MLS expansion of those left in the "bidding". With strong fan support, and supposedly a new outdoor stadium in the pipeline it looks like the northern US could be adding another team to the mix..

Anyone else worried that the MLS is expanding WAY too much? I mean, it's already a lesser than saturated product, how many more greedy franchise fees do the current owners want to line their pockets with before it's enough?

Yes, one of the reasons why there has been a call for promotion/relegation. The current MLS product is not a strong one, talent wise. It is succeeding (relatively) but if the product goes down, it will begin to struggle. Once you start contracting teams, the league is not far behing.

Minnesota's franchise will be interesting. I would like to suggest it will do well. I do not trust the fan base out here to fully support an MLS team though. Not consistently atleast.

I'm a bit worried too. I honestly thought we would have a break after Atlanta and Miami (Assuming becks can get it done). But I guess the league has a plan to keep expanding. At this rate, I can see us hitting 30 before slowing.


With that being said the Talent pool has steadily improved over the past 6 years and will continue to do so. The league is becoming more attractive to players out of country, including aging stars, and each club is signing more and more homegrown talent via its academies.

I think the leagues player pool has improved despite Expansion.

That's why I thought a list of "exciting players" would be a good exercise. I know the talent level of players coming up (U23/U21/U18) is significantly better than it was even 5 years ago. Again, my issue is can the MLS keep them?

I still think symbiotic relationships with Euro clubs (sharing resources and players) is a logical step in development

 

[Smurf]

Thought I'd pipe in here real quick as the convo got way ahead of where I was at with my last post, lol.

The national soccer media in this country is so incredibly quick to jump on any Duel National player the nats may have eyes on because of our history of getting burned. In the past US soccer tried to get a step ahead of their actual progression by trying to get these players on the USMNT. We got burned so many times. Two big ones (and fairly fresh) in my minds are Dortmund's Nevin Subotic (who was developed in part by the USSF) and Fiorentina's Giuseppe Rossi (Although he was very forward about his desire to play for Italy from the beginning)...

It's not uncommon for our grand melting pot of a country to miss out on top talent, and we should not be ashamed to offer the opportunity to those who are eligible and want to play for our colors. I would gladly take Gedion Zelalem on our team if he desires to be here (and from initial reports, he does....and once eligible will be called in).

The dual national talk is just so disproportionate in our Country because of its ties to multiple cultures across the globe, and initial lack of a definitive national soccer identity. I know we aren't the only nation that deals with dual nationals, (hell Belgium, Albania, Turkey, Kosovo and even England all tried to get Adnan Januzaj to play for them) but I feel our situation is a bit different because we were so heavily removed form the soccer epicenter of the world for such a long period of time. We are finally starting to draw in closer to be a legitimate soccer entity in the world, and our performance against Belgium in the WC went along way in doing so. We are gaining a lot of respect for how far we have come in the last 4-6 years (I would argue close to 10-12 years).


Also, I saw some talk about DP's in MLS and the post made it seem like there were only 7 in the league (Keane, Dempsey, Villa, Kaka, Martins, Bradley, Altidore)...there are close to 36 DP's in the league and every club has at least 1 under contract (Houston's Eric Torres is currently on loan as part of his purchase from Chivas De Guadalajara).

You can find the list here: http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/d ... ed-players

one thing you will notice is the large number of younger players from South American countries.


Gabriel Torres
Mauro Diaz
Carlos 'Offside' Rivas
Bryan Rochez
Fernando Aristeguieta
Octavio Rivero

All IIRC are younger than 25 and getting DP money in this league.

 

[Smurf]

That's why I thought a list of "exciting players" would be a good exercise. I know the talent level of players coming up (U23/U21/U18) is significantly better than it was even 5 years ago. Again, my issue is can the MLS keep them?

I still think symbiotic relationships with Euro clubs (sharing resources and players) is a logical step in development

Oh absolutely was a great exercise. One that I really enjoyed. I wish I had more for you then and still now. I personally feel like I failed to deliver on what you were looking for as my list was extremely Sounders geared. As we get deeper in the season I will re-evaluate my list and hopefully add some who are playing within MLS and not just limit myself to S2 products (which is probably one of the things I am most excited about right now).