Scot Mccloughan on his pick for ROY

[hawknation2018]

:lol:

 

[jlwaters1]

I think Penny is going to need some time to adjust to this level, and I don't believe that's a bad thing. At SDSU, he saw a lot of really wide running lanes. He's not as physically developed as he will be a year from now. Improving his body is now his full-time job. Fortunately, Chris Carson looks amazing. C.J. Prosise and Mike Davis also look great. Carson gives them a physical, bell-cow back with excellent vision. They don't need to put stress on the rookie. He can return some kicks, play a change of pace role, catch passes out of the backield, and split carries with the more experienced, physically developed guys. It's actually a great situation for him.

If the criteria for "bell cow back" is lasting only 4 games in a 16 game season and amassing 200 yards with 1 touchdown, then your expectations are low indeed. We'll check in 8 games through the season and see where Penny is, ok? Using the above criteria, I figure if he has 600 yards and 6 touchdowns, you'll be wanting to fit him for a gold jacket.

No kidding. Carson has been overvalued by Seahawk Fans. He may be great this year, (I hope) but he is certainly unproven from last year. Consider this, in his 4 games he had just 1 that was of note- against a hapless SF squad. 1 Above average/good game doesn't mean anything.

Even 1 good season doesn't mean much-- just look at Thomas Rawls who had a good rookie year and was average/below average ever since and is no longer here.

Procise has shown much more talent than Carson, but again we have the durability issue. Hopefully both Procise and Carson will stay healthy this year. If so, I think we'll see a return to dominance in the run game. (Along with the OL improvements to a better scheme more suited to the players.)

 

[KiwiHawk]

No kidding. Carson has been overvalued by Seahawk Fans. He may be great this year, (I hope) but he is certainly unproven from last year. Consider this, in his 4 games he had just 1 that was of note- against a hapless SF squad. 1 Above average/good game doesn't mean anything.

Even 1 good season doesn't mean much-- just look at Thomas Rawls who had a good rookie year and was average/below average ever since and is no longer here.

Procise has shown much more talent than Carson, but again we have the durability issue. Hopefully both Procise and Carson will stay healthy this year. If so, I think we'll see a return to dominance in the run game. (Along with the OL improvements to a better scheme more suited to the players.)

It's more about how Carson has looked than the stats. The stats are skewed by the running back rotation the team was going through at the time, and the tendency to bail on the run rather quickly because the OL was so bad. However, even with a bad OL, Carson still did a lot better than the alternatives. Give him a lead blocker and a blocking TE and let's see what he can do. That's kinda what pre-season is for, isn't it?

Of course the people who think Carson isn't all he's cracked up to be will say the other side is nominating him for the hall of fame, but if you actually read any posts, nobody here is doing so.

 

[chris98251]

Carson looked the part last year, he had the demeanor, the toughness, the hands, ability to block and speed and ability to hit holes and shed tacklers, did all that with the worst line in the league. I am far more excited to see what he and all the other backs can do with actual running lanes to get a step or two going forward before contact is made.

Penny needs a crease with his speed and burst and will be gone, he is at 230 Pete said that's plenty of size.

 

[seahawkfreak]

If Carson and Penny are a success, I hope that stupid Thunder and Lightning metaphor doesn't show up. I mean I'll take success over a stupid nickname that is overused but I just hope that it won't happen.

Success yes, stupid nickname no.

 

[chris98251]

So Fire and Reign wouldn't work either I guess

 

[hawknation2018]

I think Penny is going to need some time to adjust to this level, and I don't believe that's a bad thing. At SDSU, he saw a lot of really wide running lanes. He's not as physically developed as he will be a year from now. Improving his body is now his full-time job. Fortunately, Chris Carson looks amazing. C.J. Prosise and Mike Davis also look great. Carson gives them a physical, bell-cow back with excellent vision. They don't need to put stress on the rookie. He can return some kicks, play a change of pace role, catch passes out of the backield, and split carries with the more experienced, physically developed guys. It's actually a great situation for him.

If the criteria for "bell cow back" is lasting only 4 games in a 16 game season and amassing 200 yards with 1 touchdown, then your expectations are low indeed. We'll check in 8 games through the season and see where Penny is, ok? Using the above criteria, I figure if he has 600 yards and 6 touchdowns, you'll be wanting to fit him for a gold jacket.

No kidding. Carson has been overvalued by Seahawk Fans. He may be great this year, (I hope) but he is certainly unproven from last year. Consider this, in his 4 games he had just 1 that was of note- against a hapless SF squad. 1 Above average/good game doesn't mean anything.

Even 1 good season doesn't mean much-- just look at Thomas Rawls who had a good rookie year and was average/below average ever since and is no longer here.

Procise has shown much more talent than Carson, but again we have the durability issue. Hopefully both Procise and Carson will stay healthy this year. If so, I think we'll see a return to dominance in the run game. (Along with the OL improvements to a better scheme more suited to the players.)

To be fair, it's not just the fans. You have reporters and Carroll himself calling Carson the standout of the off-season workouts. The stats don't look good for Carson, because he got knocked out early, but you have to consider the full body of work, including his preseason runs against a first team KC defense. Carson has shown potential.

But you're right that the stats don't do him justice, and the sample size is small. The same can be said for Penny until we see him against NFL defenses.

 

[vin.couve12]

I seriously doubt he gets ROY. Almost no chance, in fact. Saying that is in no way, shape, or form a knock against Penny. Penny has serious long term good to even great career potential. The problem is that Carson does as well, IMO. Blaming Carson for getting rolled by 3 defenders in the backfield is stucking fupid as is gets, which....yeah. Par the course.

 

[vin.couve12]

If all you know is a retrospect of the end result, you're null in evaluation.

It was evident that Carson can create his own yards at an NFL level with heinous blocking. You can have all walks of life at various physical talent levels, but creating your own yards as a RB is positively a most valued commodity in the NFL.

 

[bigskydoc]

If he turns our run game even average, he is going to get accolades for being the reason why. Remember our run game was almost non-existent last year.

If another player puts together better numbers that are still close to his numbers here, Penny would get the nod just because of how bad the run game was last year.

Everybody in the media knows, and has reported on, just how terrible our offensive line has been. I honestly believe that, unless the line is demonstrably atrocious, and Penny racks up a massive YAC average, he will be overlooked. If he turns in a productive year, the credit for turning the run game around will go to Solari.

Penny will have to be clear and away the undeniable ROTY to have a chance. It will probably take 1,000 yds, 4 YPA, and 7 TDs to secure, maybe even 1,100, 4.9, and 10.

 

[toffee]

I think Penny is going to need some time to adjust to this level, and I don't believe that's a bad thing. At SDSU, he saw a lot of really wide running lanes. He's not as physically developed as he will be a year from now. Improving his body is now his full-time job. Fortunately, Chris Carson looks amazing. C.J. Prosise and Mike Davis also look great. Carson gives them a physical, bell-cow back with excellent vision. They don't need to put stress on the rookie. He can return some kicks, play a change of pace role, catch passes out of the backield, and split carries with the more experienced, physically developed guys. It's actually a great situation for him.

If the criteria for "bell cow back" is lasting only 4 games in a 16 game season and amassing 200 yards with 1 touchdown, then your expectations are low indeed. We'll check in 8 games through the season and see where Penny is, ok? Using the above criteria, I figure if he has 600 yards and 6 touchdowns, you'll be wanting to fit him for a gold jacket.

No kidding. Carson has been overvalued by Seahawk Fans. He may be great this year, (I hope) but he is certainly unproven from last year. Consider this, in his 4 games he had just 1 that was of note- against a hapless SF squad. 1 Above average/good game doesn't mean anything.

Even 1 good season doesn't mean much-- just look at Thomas Rawls who had a good rookie year and was average/below average ever since and is no longer here.

Procise has shown much more talent than Carson, but again we have the durability issue. Hopefully both Procise and Carson will stay healthy this year. If so, I think we'll see a return to dominance in the run game. (Along with the OL improvements to a better scheme more suited to the players.)

To be fair, it's not just the fans. You have reporters and Carroll himself calling Carson the standout of the off-season workouts. The stats don't look good for Carson, because he got knocked out early, but you have to consider the full body of work, including his preseason runs against a first team KC defense. Carson has shown potential.

But you're right that the stats don't do him justice, and the sample size is small. The same can be said for Penny until we see him against NFL defenses.

Our OL shown potential too during last off season .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[chris98251]

If the criteria for "bell cow back" is lasting only 4 games in a 16 game season and amassing 200 yards with 1 touchdown, then your expectations are low indeed. We'll check in 8 games through the season and see where Penny is, ok? Using the above criteria, I figure if he has 600 yards and 6 touchdowns, you'll be wanting to fit him for a gold jacket.

No kidding. Carson has been overvalued by Seahawk Fans. He may be great this year, (I hope) but he is certainly unproven from last year. Consider this, in his 4 games he had just 1 that was of note- against a hapless SF squad. 1 Above average/good game doesn't mean anything.

Even 1 good season doesn't mean much-- just look at Thomas Rawls who had a good rookie year and was average/below average ever since and is no longer here.

Procise has shown much more talent than Carson, but again we have the durability issue. Hopefully both Procise and Carson will stay healthy this year. If so, I think we'll see a return to dominance in the run game. (Along with the OL improvements to a better scheme more suited to the players.)

To be fair, it's not just the fans. You have reporters and Carroll himself calling Carson the standout of the off-season workouts. The stats don't look good for Carson, because he got knocked out early, but you have to consider the full body of work, including his preseason runs against a first team KC defense. Carson has shown potential.

But you're right that the stats don't do him justice, and the sample size is small. The same can be said for Penny until we see him against NFL defenses.

Our OL shown potential too during last off season .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hmmm we started off with Ifedi and Clark injured if I remember and even in pre season we looked like revolving doors with no glass in the panels, I do remember someone and it may have been Cable stating this was the best group he had ever had.

We were doomed then.

 

[adeltaY]

If all you know is a retrospect of the end result, you're null in evaluation.

It was evident that Carson can create his own yards at an NFL level with heinous blocking. You can have all walks of life at various physical talent levels, but creating your own yards as a RB is positively a most valued commodity in the NFL.

I think Carson had top-tier broken tackle and elusivity ratings before he went down, which was really promising. Improved blocking + healthy Carson could be special with Penny mixing it up here and there.

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

I like Carson as a Seahawk running back and can certainly see his potential to be a significant asset to the running game. The down side of Carson's past college performance is indicative of a player that unfortunately can't seem to stay healthy. Carson's 1-st two years at Oklahoma State, he had zero carries, In 2015, he played a full season of 12 games and had 131 carries for 517 yards, 3.9-ypc and 4-TD's. In his senior year, 2016, Carson played in 9 games had 82 carries for 559 yards, 6.8-ypc and 9-TD's. In 2015 and 2016, Carson also had 30 receptions for 128 yards and 1 TD.

So, perhaps Carson is a late bloomer? His college career doesn't show a consistent RB by any measure mostly due to games missed, either to injury or being beat out for #1, or #2 RB by other RB's on his own team. The potential that PC picked up on prior to the draft is most likely due to his partial Senior season when he averaged 6.8-YPC. Hopefully, the off-season improvements in Carson's body and training has helped him to retain his abilities without further major injury.

IMO-The Seahawks didn't want to take a gamble on Carson staying healthy, considering last seasons injuries to most of their RB's & the fact that they were left with lousy RB production, mostly due to a combination of RB injuries and incompetent OL play. Another RB was an absolute NEED during the draft and the Seahawks got the guy they wanted. I think "availability" is likely a #1 consideration for any and all Seahawk RB's, Rashaad Penny brings that and it doesn't hurt that statistically, he was also the #1 RB in this draft and IMO will have a better season than Barkley (who had 56% of the rushing yards that Penny had last season).

There are a lot of folks that bashed the Seahawks selection of Penny and he will have to earn respect on the field with his performance. A lot of people are sleeping on Penny as a kick returner. Most people say oh yea, he can return kicks too, but the real facts are that he is an NCAA KO-return 7-TD record holder and stat wise is one of the very best kick returners in the last 40-50 years. Remember when JS said during the draft that Penny had exceptional "spatial awareness" like he had 3 eyes? JS was talking about his kick return acumen more so than his vision as a RB (which is also evident). I fully expect Penny to set some NFL records in this category, early in his career. Penny/Carson should be one heck of a one two punch this year and I'd expect to see (sometimes) both on the field on a lot of plays. In fact, with the knowledge that both Penny and Carson are in the 230-lb range, maybe Penny plays RB and Carson is in at FB or lined up in the slot. Lots of plays coud be made from that line up and players playing to their strength is a good thing.

Carson can really block very well and since he gained 10-lbs, one must wonder if the coaches wanted to bulk him up to play the FB position? Maybe a possibility(?). Having both Penny & Carson on the field at the same time, with some more "inventive play calls" and opposing defenders might just crap there pants. Time will tell. Can't wait for preseason.

:smilingalien:

 

[chris98251]

I like Carson as a Seahawk running back and can certainly see his potential to be a significant asset to the running game. The down side of Carson's past college performance is indicative of a player that unfortunately can't seem to stay healthy. Carson's 1-st two years at Oklahoma State, he had zero carries, In 2015, he played a full season of 12 games and had 131 carries for 517 yards, 3.9-ypc and 4-TD's. In his senior year, 2016, Carson played in 9 games had 82 carries for 559 yards, 6.8-ypc and 9-TD's. In 2015 and 2016, Carson also had 30 receptions for 128 yards and 1 TD.

So, perhaps Carson is a late bloomer? His college career doesn't show a consistent RB by any measure mostly due to games missed, either to injury or being beat out for #1, or #2 RB by other RB's on his own team. The potential that PC picked up on prior to the draft is most likely due to his partial Senior season when he averaged 6.8-YPC. Hopefully, the off-season improvements in Carson's body and training has helped him to retain his abilities without further major injury.

IMO-The Seahawks didn't want to take a gamble on Carson staying healthy, considering last seasons injuries to most of their RB's & the fact that they were left with lousy RB production, mostly due to a combination of RB injuries and incompetent OL play. Another RB was an absolute NEED during the draft and the Seahawks got the guy they wanted. I think "availability" is likely a #1 consideration for any and all Seahawk RB's, Rashaad Penny brings that and it doesn't hurt that statistically, he was also the #1 RB in this draft and IMO will have a better season than Barkley (who had 56% of the rushing yards that Penny had last season).

There are a lot of folks that bashed the Seahawks selection of Penny and he will have to earn respect on the field with his performance. A lot of people are sleeping on Penny as a kick returner. Most people say oh yea, he can return kicks too, but the real facts are that he is an NCAA KO-return 7-TD record holder and stat wise is one of the very best kick returners in the last 40-50 years. Remember when JS said during the draft that Penny had exceptional "spatial awareness" like he had 3 eyes? JS was talking about his kick return acumen more so than his vision as a RB (which is also evident). I fully expect Penny to set some NFL records in this category, early in his career. Penny/Carson should be one heck of a one two punch this year and I'd expect to see (sometimes) both on the field on a lot of plays. In fact, with the knowledge that both Penny and Carson are in the 230-lb range, maybe Penny plays RB and Carson is in at FB or lined up in the slot. Lots of plays coud be made from that line up and players playing to their strength is a good thing.

Carson can really block very well and since he gained 10-lbs, one must wonder if the coaches wanted to bulk him up to play the FB position? Maybe a possibility(?). Having both Penny & Carson on the field at the same time, with some more "inventive play calls" and opposing defenders might just crap there pants. Time will tell. Can't wait for preseason.

:smilingalien:

All of RB's can line up as a WR and slot guys, I would not be suprised to see three RB's on the field on some plays, then shift to a different formation under Schotty, something Bevell would never do but will drive a DC crazy since you cannot plan for plays based on just who is on the field.

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

I don't think the running offense will be nearly as bad as last year and may actually develop over the season as one of the NFL's best. The defense may be challenged to keep games in check with all the players lost but should also benefit from the run the clock down, running offense allowing the defense more rest. This will indeed be an exciting year because of all of the changes made in players and coaches. IMO- this isn't as bad a team as many are saying, just a little different than we are all used to & change can often be a good thing. + All aging players eventually have to be replaced, it's nature's way of saving their lives for something other than the game of football.

As to aging players, personally, I have to wonder how a player with multiple millions in the bank can justify not being on a nice beach somewhere drinking an ice cold beer (Stella Artois?) instead of putting his body at further risk. How many millions do they need? Maybe those concussion blows to the head are what makes some players greedy & stupid?

:smilingalien:

 

[Jimjones0384]

No doubt, that could be a hell of a one two punch.

Listening to everyone that attended camp this year, Carson was the star of the show. This is way exciting.

Hype. The flippin pads weren't on yet, and we heard the same hype about Lacey last year. I think Carson and Penny will be a solid 1-2 punch, and I think Penny will take over by mid season myself. But one thing I know for certain. There are no "star RB's" in mini camp when you cannot even tackle the runner and guys are not hitting yet. :roll:

Imagine that, ladies and gentlemen. Seymore with another negative take, who would have guessed. SMH. Well, all knowing guru, considering Carson is coming of a horrific leg injury, I will take the "hype," and have some optimism. I know optimism is a foreign concept to you, but idk.

 

[adeltaY]

Sounds more like a measured, logical take to me. It wouldn't surprise me if every team feels a lot of optimism about their RBs at this point in the year, even though many of those run offenses will turn out to be subpar.

 

[truehawksfan]

While I understand the cautious no pads, no tackling approach.

But what about Prosise's rookie year? Dude missed OTAs, mini camp, preseason, etc., but had dominant games against the Pats and Philly. Behind the crappy OLine too.

And Prosise did this as a rookie. Penny possesses the same size, speed, passing catches abilities and home run capabilities like Prosise without the injury prone baggage.

He has a chance to be ROY....even if he showed great speed, explosive traits, pass catching abilities in these so called meaningless OTAs and Mini camp.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm pretty stoked about the possibilities of the running game. Especially w/Penny and Carson. Plus the addition some good blocking for the running game......