Russell Wilson to Giants? - NBC Sports comentary

[Sgt. Largent]

Here is what it boils down 2. you choices

1. don't sign him hope you GET LUCKY in the draft or Fa, use the money for other things and HOPE you can put together a good enough team to win 9+ game
2. Resign Wilson, use what cap money and the draft to fill out KNOWING (have been 9+ win every year since Wilson and with Wilson taking up large % cap) barring injury you are a 9+ win team every year.

So simple luck and hope over the known.

Pretty simple really

#1. If your long term plan is not to resign Russell, then you better damn well trade him now while he still has a year left on his deal.

To let him play out his contract with no intention of extending him is a waste of picks you could get for him, which is probably multiple #1's.

btw, I'm fine with not extending Russell.............as long as his replacement is already on the roster like Mahomes or Lamar Jackson, and he's ready to roll. But we don't have that, with very little prospects of finding a suitable replacement this draft.

So bottom line, I don't think we have a choice. Extend Russell.

 

[DomeHawk]

Ok here's a better question. Everyone has to have a number. At what price is Russell Wilson's contract not worth the price?

$25MM? $30MM? $40MM?

There has to be a number for everyone. Once we can get people to admit the number we can have a dialogue about value.

"keep him at all costs" isn't a viable argument unfortunately.

If Russ wants to sign a long term deal at a reasonable price (3-5th highest QB range) with lots of guaranteed money, it's a no brainer... But breaking QB money records will not allow the Seahawks to be a perennial SB contender, which we haven't been in about 3 years (since.. guess when?)

If Russ is going to play it like Kirk Cousins (which he as the full right to do if that's what he's chasing), then you might as well get some incredible assets.. that's a big IF. I have no idea what Russ is looking for.

Give him 200mil for seven years with 100mil guaranteed.

He's locked up and his financial future is secured.

Given his commitment to his health and training it's a reasonable risk.

 

[MarylandHawk]

New York Media would hate Wilson, he doesn't give them anything to eat and feed on.

Yes this is why Jeter is so reviled in NY.

 

[mrt144]

Ok here's a better question. Everyone has to have a number. At what price is Russell Wilson's contract not worth the price?

$25MM? $30MM? $40MM?.

The price will be next man up.

That's how the salary structure in the NFL works. If profits go up (which they are), and the salary cap goes up (which it is), then the next top 10 QB will sign for more than the last QB.

So what's the next "highest paid" QB going to want? Rodgers just signed for 4 years @ $134,000,000 / $57,500,000 signing bonus / $98,700,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $33,500,00.

So THAT'S where all conversations should start if you're one of the people debating whether Russell is worth the price. The price will be north of 100M guaranteed, and north of 33.5M per year.

And if the Cowboys and Dak get their deal done first, and it's more than Rodgers? Then THAT'S the new benchmark for your conversation.

I totally get that. My question is. How teams have won a SB after the QB signed a market leading contract within the first 3 years of the term?

Dak isn't getting Rodgers money though. That's foolish. It's not the next man up gets the most. It's the next elite QB up gets it which would fit rodgers but not Dak in my opinion.

1. You're introducing another question. Can we win with Russell soaking up 20-25% of the cap, idk good question. Definitely makes it harder.

2, Dak will get more than Rogers IMO........and I illustrated why above. Unless the Cowboys refuse and let him walk, which I highly doubt the will.

You guys keep trying to apply logical reasoning to how to pay these guys, and it's not logic, it's simple math. Cousins, Garrappolo, Smith, and Rodgers...........next man up gets paid. Dak and Russell are next men up. They gonna get paid.

Fans are bond traders insisting on rationality from stock market speculators.

 

[mrt144]

Here is what it boils down 2. you choices

1. don't sign him hope you GET LUCKY in the draft or Fa, use the money for other things and HOPE you can put together a good enough team to win 9+ game
2. Resign Wilson, use what cap money and the draft to fill out KNOWING (have been 9+ win every year since Wilson and with Wilson taking up large % cap) barring injury you are a 9+ win team every year.

So simple luck and hope over the known.

Pretty simple really

#1. If your long term plan is not to resign Russell, then you better damn well trade him now while he still has a year left on his deal.

To let him play out his contract with no intention of extending him is a waste of picks you could get for him, which is probably multiple #1's.

btw, I'm fine with not extending Russell.............as long as his replacement is already on the roster like Mahomes or Lamar Jackson, and he's ready to roll. But we don't have that, with very little prospects of finding a suitable replacement this draft.

So bottom line, I don't think we have a choice. Extend Russell.

And unless someone is defiantly not following the moves of the team in the prelude to this situation, then there's no excuse to keep banging the drum of one's own opinion about jettisoning Wilson. We all get it, it might be the best move but there's perilous little that suggest it's a move that's even being entertained by the Hawks. Arguing the severely unlikely in the service of expressing what you think is absolute best is catharsis best served by a mirror and 10 minutes a day.

You're pretty damn good at dispassion and I appreciate it.

 

[lukerguy]

Ok here's a better question. Everyone has to have a number. At what price is Russell Wilson's contract not worth the price?

$25MM? $30MM? $40MM?

There has to be a number for everyone. Once we can get people to admit the number we can have a dialogue about value.

"keep him at all costs" isn't a viable argument unfortunately.

If Russ wants to sign a long term deal at a reasonable price (3-5th highest QB range) with lots of guaranteed money, it's a no brainer... But breaking QB money records will not allow the Seahawks to be a perennial SB contender, which we haven't been in about 3 years (since.. guess when?)

If Russ is going to play it like Kirk Cousins (which he as the full right to do if that's what he's chasing), then you might as well get some incredible assets.. that's a big IF. I have no idea what Russ is looking for.

Give him 200mil for seven years with 100mil guaranteed.

He's locked up and his financial future is secured.

Given his commitment to his health and training it's a reasonable risk.

I absolutely would agree to 7 years $200 MM. $28+MM is reasonable.

I saw on twitter he's looking for $35MM. So would you do 7 Years at $245MM? What if he was looking for $40MM a year?

My point is if he's looking for $35-$40MM a year, at what point does the contract % towards total cap make his competitive genius no longer an advantage. Every player has a number. The reason the Pats win every year is because their GOAT earns about half of what he should be paid every year. I'm not asking Russ to do that but every player has a breaking point where their contract no longer makes sense. I don't know the right answer but I would assume that number is somewhere around where he is asking (if he is indeed hopeful of $35MM per season).

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's just the next one up. When he signed his last deal, people freaked out about it, and it turned out to be a bargain compared to what some guys are getting now. Guys who are not even CLOSE to the QB that Russ is, or they have done very little in this league. A few years after he signs an extension, it won't be any different. Their are some average at best QB's making a lot more per than he is. He deserves to be to be one of the top paid QB's in the league.

 

[mrt144]

Nobody's missing the point, There are a variety of ways to win championships.

5 yards and a cloud of dust won Seattle a Super Bowl 5 seasons ago, took them within a yard of another. Denver a Super Bowl with the same set up 3 years ago. This last Super Bowl was won with a similar game plan.

the only issue i have with PC is there are not as many in game adjustments as you'd hope, and you dont see as many wrinkles offensively.

"Why should I use wheels when these slabs of stone to build The Pyramids were ferried here sans wheel? Look at you chumps, trying to reinvent the plank and rope pull"

I've experienced this first and second hand - your prior efforts of success are not always the easily replicated nor are the inherently successful as you imagine as the situations in which they resulted in success can and do change.

While one might posit that a large part of our success was in large part due to the offensive tactical football style to play, such a notion then demands explanations of other successful methods. As you say, there is a variety of ways to win a championship, so why settle exactly on a paradigm from 6 years ago to strive for exclusively?

 

[DomeHawk]

Ok here's a better question. Everyone has to have a number. At what price is Russell Wilson's contract not worth the price?

$25MM? $30MM? $40MM?

There has to be a number for everyone. Once we can get people to admit the number we can have a dialogue about value.

"keep him at all costs" isn't a viable argument unfortunately.

If Russ wants to sign a long term deal at a reasonable price (3-5th highest QB range) with lots of guaranteed money, it's a no brainer... But breaking QB money records will not allow the Seahawks to be a perennial SB contender, which we haven't been in about 3 years (since.. guess when?)

If Russ is going to play it like Kirk Cousins (which he as the full right to do if that's what he's chasing), then you might as well get some incredible assets.. that's a big IF. I have no idea what Russ is looking for.

Give him 200mil for seven years with 100mil guaranteed.

He's locked up and his financial future is secured.

Given his commitment to his health and training it's a reasonable risk.

I absolutely would agree to 7 years $200 MM. $28+MM is reasonable.

I saw on twitter he's looking for $35MM. So would you do 7 Years at $245MM? What if he was looking for $40MM a year?

My point is if he's looking for $35-$40MM a year, at what point does the contract % towards total cap make his competitive genius no longer an advantage. Every player has a number. The reason the Pats win every year is because their GOAT earns about half of what he should be paid every year. I'm not asking Russ to do that but every player has a breaking point where their contract no longer makes sense. I don't know the right answer but I would assume that number is somewhere around where he is asking (if he is indeed hopeful of $35MM per season).

I see your point but it is entirely hypothetical. Obviously he knows there is a number he isn't going to get so his agent goes by the prevailing wage for his position and where he fits into that criteria. That's really the gist of that.

My point was that offering him a longer contract puts the admin in a less secure position thereby affording less per year but more security for the player. He's pretty confident so I would speculate that he wouldn't take that. It's just a thought.

 

[toffee]

Drew Lock is pretty darn good. He's got sneaky speed/athleticism too.

If you could get him 6th, reduce the cap space by about 20MM a year, get a 2nd and another 1st.. I'd definitely do it.

With that extra room you could sign the equivalent of Clowney type player.

Lock has small hands.

 

[Uncle Si]

Nobody's missing the point, There are a variety of ways to win championships.

5 yards and a cloud of dust won Seattle a Super Bowl 5 seasons ago, took them within a yard of another. Denver a Super Bowl with the same set up 3 years ago. This last Super Bowl was won with a similar game plan.

the only issue i have with PC is there are not as many in game adjustments as you'd hope, and you dont see as many wrinkles offensively.

"Why should I use wheels when these slabs of stone to build The Pyramids were ferried here sans wheel? Look at you chumps, trying to reinvent the plank and rope pull"

I've experienced this first and second hand - your prior efforts of success are not always the easily replicated nor are the inherently successful as you imagine as the situations in which they resulted in success can and do change.

While one might posit that a large part of our success was in large part due to the offensive tactical football style to play, such a notion then demands explanations of other successful methods. As you say, there is a variety of ways to win a championship, so why settle exactly on a paradigm from 6 years ago to strive for exclusively?

The Egyptians knew about wheels, they just had a preference.

As does Pete. As do most coaches.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

While one might posit that a large part of our success was in large part due to the offensive tactical football style to play, such a notion then demands explanations of other successful methods. As you say, there is a variety of ways to win a championship, so why settle exactly on a paradigm from 6 years ago to strive for exclusively?

I don't see the substance in this argument. 6 years ago was...only 6 years ago. The NFL was not substantially different in 2013-2014 from what it is now, and those who argue along those lines in an attempt to validate a different offensive style are grasping at straws.

Here's what I'd like to ask: why do others want the byzantine labyrinth pass-first offense so badly? Because it's more exciting? Because the pundits slob its knob harder? Or just because of a perception that run-first no longer working? Because if it's the perception that it's no longer working, I'd respond that nobody can make the Super Bowl every year, and there are plenty of reasons other than our offensive philosophy to explain our struggles to get back to the NFC championship. Peteball is far from the only potential culprit.

 

[Popeyejones]

And if the Cowboys and Dak get their deal done first, and it's more than Rodgers? Then THAT'S the new benchmark for your conversation.

Ah man, that's a scary thought.

What makes it even scarier is Jurry is probably the owner dumb enough to actually do that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

And if the Cowboys and Dak get their deal done first, and it's more than Rodgers? Then THAT'S the new benchmark for your conversation.

Ah man, that's a scary thought.

What makes it even scarier is Jurry is probably the owner dumb enough to actually do that.

He just said yesterday that he'd take Dak #1 in the draft and has no problem paying him. So it's happening my man, it's happening.

Hell, Jerry Jones is directly responsible for the hard cap in the NFL. His insane spending on players was legendary.

 

[Seymour]

And if the Cowboys and Dak get their deal done first, and it's more than Rodgers? Then THAT'S the new benchmark for your conversation.

Ah man, that's a scary thought.

What makes it even scarier is Jurry is probably the owner dumb enough to actually do that.

He just said yesterday that he'd take Dak #1 in the draft and has no problem paying him. So it's happening my man, it's happening.

Hell, Jerry Jones is directly responsible for the hard cap in the NFL. His insane spending on players was legendary.

What exactly "is happening"?? He sure as hell is NOT paying Dak more than Rodgers!!....that is not only absurd, that is death by 1000 paper cuts to his team.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

And if the Cowboys and Dak get their deal done first, and it's more than Rodgers? Then THAT'S the new benchmark for your conversation.

Ah man, that's a scary thought.

What makes it even scarier is Jurry is probably the owner dumb enough to actually do that.

He just said yesterday that he'd take Dak #1 in the draft and has no problem paying him. So it's happening my man, it's happening.

Hell, Jerry Jones is directly responsible for the hard cap in the NFL. His insane spending on players was legendary.

What exactly "is happening"?? He sure as hell is NOT paying Dak more than Rodgers!!....that is not only absurd, that is death by 1000 paper cuts to his team.

I can see both Russell and Dak breaking the 200M barrier............does that mean more guaranteed money than Rodgers, bigger signing bonus, etc? Idk, but that's how this works, next guy up earns more than the last guy.

So yes, probably both Russell and Dak get more than 35M+ per year, especially with the cap going up over 10M from last year.

 

[Seymour]

Ah man, that's a scary thought.

What makes it even scarier is Jurry is probably the owner dumb enough to actually do that.

He just said yesterday that he'd take Dak #1 in the draft and has no problem paying him. So it's happening my man, it's happening.

Hell, Jerry Jones is directly responsible for the hard cap in the NFL. His insane spending on players was legendary.

What exactly "is happening"?? He sure as hell is NOT paying Dak more than Rodgers!!....that is not only absurd, that is death by 1000 paper cuts to his team.

I can see both Russell and Dak breaking the 200M barrier............does that mean more guaranteed money than Rodgers, bigger signing bonus, etc? Idk, but that's how this works, next guy up earns more than the last guy.

So yes, probably both Russell and Dak get more than 35M+ per year, especially with the cap going up over 10M from last year.

Sure...next man up and more $$ if you completely eliminate talent, ability and results from the equation and call them equal! No team operates under that silly assumption, which it appear that is exactly what you are doing. No....Dak isn't getting $35+M....
Prescott is ranked between the #10 and #14 QB in the league right now.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/da.../05/top-15-nfl-quarterbacks-dak-prescott-rank

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He just said yesterday that he'd take Dak #1 in the draft and has no problem paying him. So it's happening my man, it's happening.

Hell, Jerry Jones is directly responsible for the hard cap in the NFL. His insane spending on players was legendary.

What exactly "is happening"?? He sure as hell is NOT paying Dak more than Rodgers!!....that is not only absurd, that is death by 1000 paper cuts to his team.

I can see both Russell and Dak breaking the 200M barrier............does that mean more guaranteed money than Rodgers, bigger signing bonus, etc? Idk, but that's how this works, next guy up earns more than the last guy.

So yes, probably both Russell and Dak get more than 35M+ per year, especially with the cap going up over 10M from last year.

Sure...next man up and more $$ if you completely eliminate talent, ability and results from the equation and call them equal! No team operates under that silly assumption, which it appear that is exactly what you are doing. No....Dak isn't getting $35+M....
Prescott is ranked between the #10 and #14 QB in the league right now.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/da.../05/top-15-nfl-quarterbacks-dak-prescott-rank

That is how it works. Look at the list of the highest paid QB's right now in total cash, and it's all the guys who have signed new extensions or contracts over the past two years.............regardless of top end talent.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/

......and when Russell and Dak sign their new deals this year or next, they'll be #1 and #2.


This is the same conversation we had about Clark. You said he's only worth 15-16M, and he just got tagged for 17M, and will get 18-20M per year when he finally signs his deal. Some of you guys still think the rules of logic apply to sports salaries.

They don't.

 

[Seymour]

What exactly "is happening"?? He sure as hell is NOT paying Dak more than Rodgers!!....that is not only absurd, that is death by 1000 paper cuts to his team.

I can see both Russell and Dak breaking the 200M barrier............does that mean more guaranteed money than Rodgers, bigger signing bonus, etc? Idk, but that's how this works, next guy up earns more than the last guy.

So yes, probably both Russell and Dak get more than 35M+ per year, especially with the cap going up over 10M from last year.

Sure...next man up and more $$ if you completely eliminate talent, ability and results from the equation and call them equal! No team operates under that silly assumption, which it appear that is exactly what you are doing. No....Dak isn't getting $35+M....
Prescott is ranked between the #10 and #14 QB in the league right now.
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/da.../05/top-15-nfl-quarterbacks-dak-prescott-rank

That is how it works. Look at the list of the highest paid QB's right now in total cash, and it's all the guys who have signed new extensions or contracts over the past two years.............regardless of top end talent.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/20 ... arterback/

......and when Russell and Dak sign their new deals this year or next, they'll be #1 and #2.


This is the same conversation we had about Clark. You said he's only worth 15-16M, and he just got tagged for 17M, and will get 18-20M per year when he finally signs his deal. Some of you guys still think the rules of logic apply to sports salaries.

They don't.

:roll: Clark aint getting $20M!
Clark also said he is fine with being tagged which means he doesn't see his value way over that!
Prescott aint getting $35+M. His talent level is clearly below most of those you are comparing him to.
You will see.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The NFL has an interesting situation right now.

The conventional wisdom used to be that in order to be successful or even competitive, you have to have a great QB.

This has led to teams essentially repeatedly driving themselves into the ground in order to get a bad enough record that they can get a good enough draft pick to get the QB. But since QB drafts are not an exact science, you are left with teams repeatedly having to go back to the well to get a QB.

This has led to a frenzy for QBs though, and that means keeping a QB so much more expensive it strips the team. So now, for the most part (Patriots not withstanding), having a great QB means you will be competitive but likely not successful.

The key to the SB no longer is getting the great QB and riding a mini dynasty for a few years. Instead it is getting a rookie QB, finding other high impact 1st contract players and then filling the gaps with all pro free agents.

The teams with good to great QBs still have good records to keep the fans engaged. The teams with bad records that draft a good or great QB can suddenly end up contenders in year 2 or 3 after that draft just by leveraging the increased budget available because the rookie QB salary gives them so much more spend than teams with veteran QBs.

It all works out perfectly for the NFL to keep teams competitive, which is one of the secrets to their success.

(The problem is that the mid-tier and lower tier QBs are getting huge contracts and so you get teams like Miami that get stuck with whatshisname, who they cannot even trade. Or the poor Jaguars after their godawful extension of Bortles.)

So the key here is that extending Wilson means we won't be reaching SBs but it means we will be reaching 9-11 win seasons regularly. That is how the system is set up. Teams with great QBs will have strong regular seasons but will always have glaring weaknesses that will usually cause them to fall short in the playoffs.

Wilson knows, we are a team with a lot of our better players on 2nd+ contracts. Even with his GIANT contact, if he goes to a team with a lot of young players on 1st contracts - he can probably still contend. He will not be a contender here, and worse, he won't even put up numbers that would get him the production he needs to leverage for the kind of legacy he wants to leave. 200 yds per game won't cut it, it isn't his fault but it might be his record unless he leaves.

Important to consider the earlier paragraphs, staying here he isn't getting to the Super Bowl. Somewhere else he has a small chance, but that is better than almost zero in our current situation. I see Wilson pushing to go to a place with a lot of young impact players where Wilson's impact to the salary cap will not hurt their chances as much. I don't see how the Giants fit this mold though.