Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Seymour]

I'm going on record that Ciara will buy the team and make Russell player coach! "They call me Seymour the scientist". :2thumbs: :snack:

 

[Seahawker]

Facing one of the best (KC) and then one of the lesser (AZ) teams and into the playoffs will be a good gauge to RW3's value/status and will likely be a factor in future contract negotiations. This is especially true considering 18' being a retooling year and so many key players being dinged up late in the season, will Wilson's play be a deciding factor in this playoff run? I'm not taking anything away from Wilson, I like him for all the same reasons every 12 does, his often record breaking accomplishments are undeniable and minus the height, you'd have a tough time building a better QB prototype on the drawing board. But, there is no question Russell benefited from Lynch & one of the greatest defenses this league has ever seen. From the start, RW was one of the most talented, intelligent & driven rookie QB's ever, a leader from day one.
At 30, most would say he is in his prime, I would say Russell has been playing close to his ceiling since his 2nd year and will continue at this same level for the next 5-6 years. Does Wilson need to put this young team on his back and push them deep into the playoffs to be considered elite and deserve a top contract? In my view the parameters for being an elite QB can not be based on a yearly top 2 or 3, pro bowls or how much $ they make. It's more about a long term body of work resulting in playoff & SB wins and the caliber of teams they performed within.

Russell Wilson's story is yet to be written, the final chapter likely to be published in Canton.
Legendary>Elite>Great>Good>Below Average

I believe RW is a consistently GREAT QB capable of making elite plays who when all is said & done may someday be considered Legendary. We will see if the Seahawks or another franchise can field a championship team with Wilson making top QB $ and how far he carries them.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We have gotten to the point where there are such ridiculous blind fans of Wilson they spring up to 'defend' him whenever anyone points out his obvious shortcomings.

He is without a doubt a top 5-7 QB in the league, depending on how you rate/rank QBs.

He isn't consistent enough to be top 3. But when he is good he is spectacular, and when he is bad - he is never really terrible. Can he carry a team? Not really. He can be the only option, but for the most part then it becomes the only option on a bad offense.

He really hasn't accomplished anything that great without his great defense. The moment we lost Lynch, we never really beat a team past the wildcard round. And there are a lot of QBs that would have won a SB with that defense and that run game.

I don't think there are a lot of QBs that could have done what he has done since but he hasn't really produced actual results. It has pretty much been a slightly above average win record with a lot of excuses added in. Those excuses were valid so he got a pass.

This year, he has no excuses. He has a good line, he has a great run game, he doesn't have his All-Everything Historic defense but then most QBs don't. Can he beat a team in the playoffs, outside of the wildcard game, by leading the team to victory? It feels possible this year because there are more supporting pieces than he has had the first few years.

And because Wilson can have moments where he is better than any QB in the league. When he is peaking he his better than any other QB in the league. The problem is sometimes he is great and sometimes average. The real problem is that he is really good at things that are very hard to do - but he has never mastered some of the average chain movers that most QBs are solid at.

This year, he can take that step and be the guy that pushes a team forward to a real win the playoffs. He certainly has the talent/skill. He has a good coach. He just needs to do this in a playoff game and do it without the help of the historic defenses or runners that he used to be able to count on. He can do it, he just hasn't yet.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

We have gotten to the point where there are such ridiculous blind fans of Wilson they spring up to 'defend' him whenever anyone points out his obvious shortcomings.

He is without a doubt a top 5-7 QB in the league, depending on how you rate/rank QBs.

He isn't consistent enough to be top 3. But when he is good he is spectacular, and when he is bad - he is never really terrible. Can he carry a team? Not really. He can be the only option, but for the most part then it becomes the only option on a bad offense.

He really hasn't accomplished anything that great without his great defense. The moment we lost Lynch, we never really beat a team past the wildcard round. And there are a lot of QBs that would have won a SB with that defense and that run game.

I don't think there are a lot of QBs that could have done what he has done since but he hasn't really produced actual results. It has pretty much been a slightly above average win record with a lot of excuses added in. Those excuses were valid so he got a pass.

This year, he has no excuses. He has a good line, he has a great run game, he doesn't have his All-Everything Historic defense but then most QBs don't. Can he beat a team in the playoffs, outside of the wildcard game, by leading the team to victory? It feels possible this year because there are more supporting pieces than he has had the first few years.

And because Wilson can have moments where he is better than any QB in the league. When he is peaking he his better than any other QB in the league. The problem is sometimes he is great and sometimes average. The real problem is that he is really good at things that are very hard to do - but he has never mastered some of the average chain movers that most QBs are solid at.

This year, he can take that step and be the guy that pushes a team forward to a real win the playoffs. He certainly has the talent/skill. He has a good coach. He just needs to do this in a playoff game and do it without the help of the historic defenses or runners that he used to be able to count on. He can do it, he just hasn't yet.

He is Mr. Consistency. Prove me wrong with data. Not the eye test.

 

[Tical21]

We played a tough d and he had like 16 yards. Model of consistency.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

We played a tough d and he had like 16 yards. Model of consistency.

72yds and a win. One bad game makes him inconsistent? C’mon man you can do better than that. Where’s the trend?

 

[scutterhawk]

We have gotten to the point where there are such ridiculous blind fans of Wilson they spring up to 'defend' him whenever anyone points out his obvious shortcomings.

He is without a doubt a top 5-7 QB in the league, depending on how you rate/rank QBs.

He isn't consistent enough to be top 3. But when he is good he is spectacular, and when he is bad - he is never really terrible. Can he carry a team? Not really. He can be the only option, but for the most part then it becomes the only option on a bad offense.

He really hasn't accomplished anything that great without his great defense. The moment we lost Lynch, we never really beat a team past the wildcard round. And there are a lot of QBs that would have won a SB with that defense and that run game.

I don't think there are a lot of QBs that could have done what he has done since but he hasn't really produced actual results. It has pretty much been a slightly above average win record with a lot of excuses added in. Those excuses were valid so he got a pass.

This year, he has no excuses. He has a good line, he has a great run game, he doesn't have his All-Everything Historic defense but then most QBs don't. Can he beat a team in the playoffs, outside of the wildcard game, by leading the team to victory? It feels possible this year because there are more supporting pieces than he has had the first few years.

And because Wilson can have moments where he is better than any QB in the league. When he is peaking he his better than any other QB in the league. The problem is sometimes he is great and sometimes average. The real problem is that he is really good at things that are very hard to do - but he has never mastered some of the average chain movers that most QBs are solid at.

This year, he can take that step and be the guy that pushes a team forward to a real win the playoffs. He certainly has the talent/skill. He has a good coach. He just needs to do this in a playoff game and do it without the help of the historic defenses or runners that he used to be able to count on. He can do it, he just hasn't yet.

He is Mr. Consistency. Prove me wrong with data. Not the eye test.

He, tcal & the whole bunch can only jack their jaws, because THEY CAN'T PROVE YOU WRONG.

It pisses them off that Wilson such has a Mega Following and that they are constantly pissing into the wind with trying to bolster an erroneous OPINION, so the only option they have left, is that ANY Wilson supporter is a Homer.

Wilson got the Seahawks into the playoffs WITHOUT LYNCH, or any kind of Running Attack, AND HE DID IT WITH CABLE & BEVELL AT THE CONTROLS OF WILSON'S OFFENSE.....THAT'S ELITE!!!!

 

[scutterhawk]

When Russel Wilson has faced a top 12 defense this year, his stats:


93/154 for 1023 yards (204.6 avg and 6.6 yards per attempt) 9 TD's 5 Int, 5 fumbles, 20 sacks, 2 wins, 3 losses - despite having the best running game in the NFL.


I ran out of time to do all the numbers, but the numbers at glance indicate that he's the worst performing of all top QB's in the league when facing a top 12 defense.. though it looks like Goff could be in that conversation as well.

The two QB who perform best against top D's are Andrew Luck. and Phillip Rivers


A cursory glance at career numbers, and looks to me like RW has been consistently bad over his career when facing the better defenses in the NFL... more so than all other top tier QB's, even Peyton Manning.....and it appears he's actually worse than Manning in bad weather situations --- as I was looking into those cold weather/raining/windy games, it jumped out that RW has more turnovers than he does touchdowns... and completes 50% of his passes or less...

Maybe someone else who has a more complete stat program can look a little deeper into these numbers....

^More "Cherry Picking Bullshit", Just admit that you're wrong eh?

 

[IndyHawk]

We have gotten to the point where there are such ridiculous blind fans of Wilson they spring up to 'defend' him whenever anyone points out his obvious shortcomings.

He is without a doubt a top 5-7 QB in the league, depending on how you rate/rank QBs.

He isn't consistent enough to be top 3. But when he is good he is spectacular, and when he is bad - he is never really terrible. Can he carry a team? Not really. He can be the only option, but for the most part then it becomes the only option on a bad offense.

He really hasn't accomplished anything that great without his great defense. The moment we lost Lynch, we never really beat a team past the wildcard round. And there are a lot of QBs that would have won a SB with that defense and that run game.

I don't think there are a lot of QBs that could have done what he has done since but he hasn't really produced actual results. It has pretty much been a slightly above average win record with a lot of excuses added in. Those excuses were valid so he got a pass.

This year, he has no excuses. He has a good line, he has a great run game, he doesn't have his All-Everything Historic defense but then most QBs don't. Can he beat a team in the playoffs, outside of the wildcard game, by leading the team to victory? It feels possible this year because there are more supporting pieces than he has had the first few years.

And because Wilson can have moments where he is better than any QB in the league. When he is peaking he his better than any other QB in the league. The problem is sometimes he is great and sometimes average. The real problem is that he is really good at things that are very hard to do - but he has never mastered some of the average chain movers that most QBs are solid at.

This year, he can take that step and be the guy that pushes a team forward to a real win the playoffs. He certainly has the talent/skill. He has a good coach. He just needs to do this in a playoff game and do it without the help of the historic defenses or runners that he used to be able to count on. He can do it, he just hasn't yet.

He is Mr. Consistency. Prove me wrong with data. Not the eye test.

He, tcal & the whole bunch can only jack their jaws, because THEY CAN'T PROVE YOU WRONG.

It pisses them off that Wilson such has a Mega Following and that they are constantly pissing into the wind with trying to bolster an erroneous OPINION, so the only option they have left, is that ANY Wilson supporter is a Homer.

Wilson got the Seahawks into the playoffs WITHOUT LYNCH, or any kind of Running Attack, AND HE DID IT WITH CABLE & BEVELL AT THE CONTROLS OF WILSON'S OFFENSE.....THAT'S ELITE!!!![/quote]
Twisted made a good point...As we see above :ditto:

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

^More "Cherry Picking Bullshit", Just admit that you're wrong eh?

I used to be in the RW rah rah rah, camp... but I am re-evaluating QB altogether - across the board.


Deion is right... it's utter nonsense, its out of control, and it needs to change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEP51uOS3Pw

NOBODY is the QB that people claim they are.

Especially not Wilson.

So no, I won't admit I'm wrong.

If you’re agreeing with Primetime..... I know where to file your opinions. Thanks for sharing.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Well Wilson has the perfect opportunity to prove what his fans are all saying about him - he can carry this team.

He has no excuses this year, but he doesn't have an all world defense to bail him out while he struggles for 3 quarters either (in fairness, that was only last year that he was 3 quarters terrible - but him being barely adequate for the 1st 2 quarters is not really new. )

He has a history of being one of the greatest 4th quarter QBs in the NFL. So the door is not shut.

But if he makes the playoffs, he is going to need to produce as the primary. This will be the time that determines if the fans are right or not.

We will see.

It would be great to see.

 

[scutterhawk]

Well Wilson has the perfect opportunity to prove what his fans are all saying about him - he can carry this team.

He has no excuses this year, but he doesn't have an all world defense to bail him out while he struggles for 3 quarters either (in fairness, that was only last year that he was 3 quarters terrible - but him being barely adequate for the 1st 2 quarters is not really new. )

He has a history of being one of the greatest 4th quarter QBs in the NFL. So the door is not shut.

But if he makes the playoffs, he is going to need to produce as the primary. This will be the time that determines if the fans are right or not.

We will see.

It would be great to see.

The problem is, OTHERS around Wilson can and do make mistakes, and some of Y'all will be quick pin their drops, fumbles etc. on RW for it.
Other considerations --->Blocking of the Offensive Line? ----Receivers? ----TE's? ----RB's? ----Unless you think that Wilson should be able to throw a pass ,& then go downfield and catch it himself, or that maybe he should be able to be the featured RB in the boot.

Z won't admit that he's wrong, BUT HE IS.

 

[TwistedHusky]

When you are paying your QB 30M a year, you create holes in the team. (We are not paying him this, but we will have to)

You have lesser players at certain, often still key, positions.

Your 30M QB is supposed to be good enough to make up for that.

The problem is that is really hard to do. Aaron Rodgers screwed the Packers by assuring that they could not pay a defense and if they lucked into a great defensive player - they were sure to lose him as soon as FA appeared. Because a giant chunk of the money had to go to the QB.

We are not that bad off right now. But all the excuses people have made for Wilson are gone. He needs to win playoff games like elite QBs do. It won't be enough to constantly fling up moon shots, 3 and out, then have the defense repeatedly shut the door and then eventually have one of those moonshots hit. You won't just be able to hang around for 3 quarters and then suddenly start producing in the 4th - he is going to have to be the one that drives us for TDs against a good team with likely a good defense. That is how the playoffs work.

There won't be any room for excuses. And there should not need to be, he has shown he is more than capable of being great in stretches. We just need that stretch to hit during the playoffs.

Elite QBs do this. QBs on the tier just below that, do a decent job but there is always some reason they could not take that next jump. I have always contended that Wilson is in the 5-7 range, which I am happy for. Can he make the next jump and be a guy that wins us playoff games in spite of not having the all-everything defense he is used to? Now that he has one of the best running games in NFL, can he take advantage of that to beat teams with better records when it counts most?

All the reasons people gave for why he shouldn't be expected to produce CONSISTENTLY like the other elite QBs are gone - he needs to produce playoff wins outside of the wildcard games when HE is the lead horse. He has not done that since Lynch left. But he had no line and terrible coordinators. Now that is changed, so the results need to change too.

 

[IndyHawk]

When you are paying your QB 30M a year, you create holes in the team. (We are not paying him this, but we will have to)

You have lesser players at certain, often still key, positions.

Your 30M QB is supposed to be good enough to make up for that.

The problem is that is really hard to do. Aaron Rodgers screwed the Packers by assuring that they could not pay a defense and if they lucked into a great defensive player - they were sure to lose him as soon as FA appeared. Because a giant chunk of the money had to go to the QB.

We are not that bad off right now. But all the excuses people have made for Wilson are gone. He needs to win playoff games like elite QBs do. It won't be enough to constantly fling up moon shots, 3 and out, then have the defense repeatedly shut the door and then eventually have one of those moonshots hit. You won't just be able to hang around for 3 quarters and then suddenly start producing in the 4th - he is going to have to be the one that drives us for TDs against a good team with likely a good defense. That is how the playoffs work.

There won't be any room for excuses. And there should not need to be, he has shown he is more than capable of being great in stretches. We just need that stretch to hit during the playoffs.

Elite QBs do this. QBs on the tier just below that, do a decent job but there is always some reason they could not take that next jump. I have always contended that Wilson is in the 5-7 range, which I am happy for. Can he make the next jump and be a guy that wins us playoff games in spite of not having the all-everything defense he is used to? Now that he has one of the best running games in NFL, can he take advantage of that to beat teams with better records when it counts most?

All the reasons people gave for why he shouldn't be expected to produce CONSISTENTLY like the other elite QBs are gone - he needs to produce playoff wins outside of the wildcard games when HE is the lead horse. He has not done that since Lynch left. But he had no line and terrible coordinators. Now that is changed, so the results need to change too.

This kind of relates to the uproar over what I posted earlier in year.."Is RW worth.."
I won't really get into that again till after season but it remains a concern with others besides just
me..All I can say is most of us are not RW haters but are concerned about the team as a whole.
You cannot keep the Frank Clarks and others without causing even more holes that get filled
with weaker players which will lead to more losses I don't care who the QB is..What good is that?
The rules of today favor so much in offense/QB that you could say their jobs are much easier
than ever so why pay more?Same for defense-you cannot do this or that so why even pay for a
star studded D..This opens up even more scenerios than I imagined when I made that post so
you will see another in broader scope besides just RW

 

[chris98251]

Or you let Wilson play out his contract and pick up Mullens as a proven guy that can supplement your offense and not break the bank. In our offense it may work since it is a run first and he has enough arm to get it deep enough to make teams play, maybe not Wilson arm but a decent arm.

 

[scutterhawk]

When you are paying your QB 30M a year, you create holes in the team. (We are not paying him this, but we will have to)

You have lesser players at certain, often still key, positions.

Your 30M QB is supposed to be good enough to make up for that.

The problem is that is really hard to do. Aaron Rodgers screwed the Packers by assuring that they could not pay a defense and if they lucked into a great defensive player - they were sure to lose him as soon as FA appeared. Because a giant chunk of the money had to go to the QB.

We are not that bad off right now. But all the excuses people have made for Wilson are gone. He needs to win playoff games like elite QBs do. It won't be enough to constantly fling up moon shots, 3 and out, then have the defense repeatedly shut the door and then eventually have one of those moonshots hit. You won't just be able to hang around for 3 quarters and then suddenly start producing in the 4th - he is going to have to be the one that drives us for TDs against a good team with likely a good defense. That is how the playoffs work.

There won't be any room for excuses. And there should not need to be, he has shown he is more than capable of being great in stretches. We just need that stretch to hit during the playoffs.

Elite QBs do this. QBs on the tier just below that, do a decent job but there is always some reason they could not take that next jump. I have always contended that Wilson is in the 5-7 range, which I am happy for. Can he make the next jump and be a guy that wins us playoff games in spite of not having the all-everything defense he is used to? Now that he has one of the best running games in NFL, can he take advantage of that to beat teams with better records when it counts most?

All the reasons people gave for why he shouldn't be expected to produce CONSISTENTLY like the other elite QBs are gone - he needs to produce playoff wins outside of the wildcard games when HE is the lead horse. He has not done that since Lynch left. But he had no line and terrible coordinators. Now that is changed, so the results need to change too.

Oh hell no, just because you pay a QB 30 or 40 mil. it has NOTHING to do with other signings...They gave Graham 10 mil. to do what?, because he sure as hell didn't produce as expected, that ain't on Russ.
Defense got the lions share of the money, and they couldn't keep Brady from picking up ten points in SB 49 to win the game.
Chancellor held out for more, Bennett did the same, Sherman was pissed at Wilson for finally getting a decent payday.
Both Sherman & Bennett sniveled their way out of Seattle....And soon to join them is Earl Thomas.

If I could only buy these guys for what they are really worth, & sell them for what they think they're worth, I'd be one rich bastage.

Oh and, the money that Wilson will get WILL NOT HAMSTRING THE SEAHAWKS, period.

How much were Sherman, Bennett, Thomas, Chancellor making when the Seahawks won SB 48? :stirthepot:

 

[mrblitz]

in 'l33tsp3ak', russell is l33t.

 

[Tical21]

When you are paying your QB 30M a year, you create holes in the team. (We are not paying him this, but we will have to)

You have lesser players at certain, often still key, positions.

Your 30M QB is supposed to be good enough to make up for that.

The problem is that is really hard to do. Aaron Rodgers screwed the Packers by assuring that they could not pay a defense and if they lucked into a great defensive player - they were sure to lose him as soon as FA appeared. Because a giant chunk of the money had to go to the QB.

We are not that bad off right now. But all the excuses people have made for Wilson are gone. He needs to win playoff games like elite QBs do. It won't be enough to constantly fling up moon shots, 3 and out, then have the defense repeatedly shut the door and then eventually have one of those moonshots hit. You won't just be able to hang around for 3 quarters and then suddenly start producing in the 4th - he is going to have to be the one that drives us for TDs against a good team with likely a good defense. That is how the playoffs work.

There won't be any room for excuses. And there should not need to be, he has shown he is more than capable of being great in stretches. We just need that stretch to hit during the playoffs.

Elite QBs do this. QBs on the tier just below that, do a decent job but there is always some reason they could not take that next jump. I have always contended that Wilson is in the 5-7 range, which I am happy for. Can he make the next jump and be a guy that wins us playoff games in spite of not having the all-everything defense he is used to? Now that he has one of the best running games in NFL, can he take advantage of that to beat teams with better records when it counts most?

All the reasons people gave for why he shouldn't be expected to produce CONSISTENTLY like the other elite QBs are gone - he needs to produce playoff wins outside of the wildcard games when HE is the lead horse. He has not done that since Lynch left. But he had no line and terrible coordinators. Now that is changed, so the results need to change too.

Oh hell no, just because you pay a QB 30 or 40 mil. it has NOTHING to do with other signings...They gave Graham 10 mil. to do what?, because he sure as hell didn't produce as expected, that ain't on Russ.
Defense got the lions share of the money, and they couldn't keep Brady from picking up ten points in SB 49 to win the game.
Chancellor held out for more, Bennett did the same, Sherman was pissed at Wilson for finally getting a decent payday.
Both Sherman & Bennett sniveled their way out of Seattle....And soon to join them is Earl Thomas.

If I could only buy these guys for what they are really worth, & sell them for what they think they're worth, I'd be one rich bastage.

Oh and, the money that Wilson will get WILL NOT HAMSTRING THE SEAHAWKS, period.

How much were Sherman, Bennett, Thomas, Chancellor making when the Seahawks won SB 48? :stirthepot:

lolwut

 

[IndyHawk]

Glad he isn't running our cap,,The math doesn't add up..

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Franchise QB is more valuable in today’s game. PC has proven he can coach up a defense and Solari is demonstrating similar proficiency with the O-line. Go young on defense, Pay Russ and keep a good O-line in front of him.

Edit: I’m not saying to set a QB paycheck record, but to lose RW over a contract is stupid.