Russ MVP

[chris98251]

Given his contract situation, he's currently auditioning for teams that will be desperate for a QB in the offseason.

Some are desperate now, Cleveland where all QB's go to die..............

 

[Lagartixa]

not to keep arguing over trivial stuff but the year we won the SB Wilson played a huge factor. His ability to run allowed them to take Lynch who was a good but not great runner up to that point and make him great....

Lynch had over 1200 rushing yards and made the Pro Bowl in 2011. That looks like a runner who's already great.

Before that, he had had seasons of over 1000 rushing yards in his first two seasons on Bills teams with losing records.

It's a pretty big reach to give Wilson credit for the fact that Lynch's best years were 2012 and 2014, especially considering that they pretty much fell exactly where you'd expect them to fall based solely on his age (26 and 28, right around the typical athletic peak at age 27).

 

[knownone]

There's no doubt that Russell's presence made Lynch a more effective rusher, especially in '12-'13 when teams hadn't figured out how to defend the read option. But yeah, Lynch, from my perspective, was a top-5 talent long before he came to Seattle. He was just a knucklehead.

With that said, I don't know if we're winning the Super Bowl without Lynch. He carried us in that Saints game.

 

[Lennie]

If Russ even gets one MVP vote this year, this site will implode.

 

[Cyrus12]

If Russ even gets one MVP vote this year, this site will implode.

But why would he??

 

[Ozzy]

Lynch had over 1200 rushing yards and made the Pro Bowl in 2011. That looks like a runner who's already great.

Before that, he had had seasons of over 1000 rushing yards in his first two seasons on Bills teams with losing records.

It's a pretty big reach to give Wilson credit for the fact that Lynch's best years were 2012 and 2014, especially considering that they pretty much fell exactly where you'd expect them to fall based solely on his age (26 and 28, right around the typical athletic peak at age 27).

He gained almost a yard per carry and was traded for 4th pick. Everyone in the sport knows Wilson helped him and he helped Wilson. Russ ran for almost 900 yards in 2014, in what world is that not a plus for lunch when defenses had to account for both guys and the read option they ran?

 

[Ozzy]

There's no doubt that Russell's presence made Lynch a more effective rusher, especially in '12-'13 when teams hadn't figured out how to defend the read option. But yeah, Lynch, from my perspective, was a top-5 talent long before he came to Seattle. He was just a knucklehead.

With that said, I don't know if we're winning the Super Bowl without Lynch. He carried us in that Saints game.

I don’t think we win the SB without Russ, Lynch or the defense. They all played massive roles at different times

 

[RiverDog]

not to keep arguing over trivial stuff but the year we won the SB Wilson played a huge factor. His ability to run allowed them to take Lynch who was a good but not great runner up to that point and make him great....the zone read stuff they ran with Wilson and Lynch was so good and without Russ you can't run that. He also had multiple game winning drives that year, played fantastic in the playoffs and mistake free football. Not claiming that you think he wasn't a factor I just always take offense when someone says the QB didn't play a big role because he did. We don't make the SB without him that year regardless how good the defense was. That was a special team with all time great defense, a running game that was innovative and new and a QB who played his best football late in games and rarely made mistakes....every part of it was needed.

The SB game itself was so lopsided that maybe they win with me at QB but before that he played a massive role. I would also argue he was really good early in that game though too.

I just read your poitn about Russ being like DIlfer or Johnson.....that is a crazy statement. Go look up how productive those guys were and how productive Russ. I couldn't disagree any more than I do.

The issue isn't how productive Russell was. The issue is how relevant it was to his team's success. The award says "most valuable," not most productive.

Russell wasn't trash, and he did make significant contributions to our Lombardi season. But it wasn't at an MVP level. Given that team we had with that defense, no quarterback, past, present, or future, would have been able to have made a contribution large enough to exceed that of our defense. Even Beast's contributions pale in comparison. My comments aren't some sort of indictment of Russell as you're trying to spin them. It's a tribute to that defense of ours, which IMO was the best defense of this century, which includes the Bucs and Ravens, and in the conversation with the best defenses in the history of the game, ie Steel Curtain, Doomsday, No Name, et al.

During our Lombardi season, Peyton Manning was much more of a factor in his team's success than Russell was with his. In the majority of contests, all Russell was asked to do was to protect the ball, not put the defense in bad positions, and score when given the opportunity, and he did so extremely well. But that's vastly different from what Manning was asked to do in the Broncos games that season. And in the Super Bowl itself, almost any competent QB, say Tavaris Jackson, could have played well enough for us to win that game. We were that dominant. The SB MVP recognized that fact by choosing a relatively unknown linebacker named Malcom Smith, who never so much as made a Pro Bowl, for the award.

 

[hawkfan68]

The issue isn't how productive Russell was. The issue is how relevant it was to his team's success. The award says "most valuable," not most productive.

Russell wasn't trash, and he did make significant contributions to our Lombardi season. But it wasn't at an MVP level. Given that team we had with that defense, no quarterback, past, present, or future, would have been able to have made a contribution large enough to exceed that of our defense. Even Beast's contributions pale in comparison. My comments aren't some sort of indictment of Russell as you're trying to spin them. It's a tribute to that defense of ours, which IMO was the best defense of this century, which includes the Bucs and Ravens, and in the conversation with the best defenses in the history of the game, ie Steel Curtain, Doomsday, No Name, et al.

During our Lombardi season, Peyton Manning was much more of a factor in his team's success than Russell was with his. In the majority of contests, all Russell was asked to do was to protect the ball, not put the defense in bad positions, and score when given the opportunity, and he did so extremely well. But that's vastly different from what Manning was asked to do in the Broncos games that season. And in the Super Bowl itself, almost any competent QB, say Tavaris Jackson, could have played well enough for us to win that game. We were that dominant. The SB MVP recognized that fact by choosing a relatively unknown linebacker named Malcom Smith, who never so much as made a Pro Bowl, for the award.

Cam Newton won a MVP award. Russ' play was equal or better than Newton. Russ wasn't the only reason the Seahawks were great during the period, that is true. However in 2015, Carolina defense had Luke Kuechly, Josh Norman, Kaawan Short, Star Lotulei, and Thomas Davis. An argument could be made that the Panthers defense was the reason they were in the Superbowl not Cam Newton. Y If you look at Cam's numbers, his numbers (2015 season) are below what Geno did last season. He had a under 60% comp pct. Yet Cam was the NFL MVP that season.

 

[RiverDog]

Cam Newton won a MVP award. Russ' play was equal or better than Newton. Russ wasn't the only reason the Seahawks were great during the period, that is true. However in 2015, Carolina defense had Luke Kuechly, Josh Norman, Kaawan Short, Star Lotulei, and Thomas Davis. An argument could be made that the Panthers defense was the reason they were in the Superbowl not Cam Newton. Y If you look at Cam's numbers, his numbers (2015 season) are below what Geno did last season. He had a under 60% comp pct. Yet Cam was the NFL MVP that season.

So what's your point? That Cam winning the MVP in 2015 was a travesty? If that's your point, then I might with you as you make a solid argument. But it doesn't mean that Russell should have won the award in that season or any other. If I remember correctly, both Brady and Manning got their teams to the conference championship game, so perhaps they would have been more deserving than Cam.

And fyi while Carolina's defense was very good that season, ranked 6th both in terms of yards and points, the Hawks defense was better, ranked 2nd in yards and 1st in points. Oh, and one other little detail. In 2015, the Panthers advanced to the Super Bowl. The Hawks lost to the Panthers in the divisional round.

Another little tidbit. Cam Newton swept the MVP and the Offensive Player of the Year awards that season, so your opinion is an outlier.

Award Winners​

AP MVP: Cam Newton
PFWA MVP: Cam Newton
Bert Bell Award (Player of the Year): Cam Newton
AP Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton
PFWA Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton
Sporting News Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton

2015 NFL Standings & Team Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2015 NFL Standings & Team Stats including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Ozzy]

The issue isn't how productive Russell was. The issue is how relevant it was to his team's success. The award says "most valuable," not most productive.

Russell wasn't trash, and he did make significant contributions to our Lombardi season. But it wasn't at an MVP level. Given that team we had with that defense, no quarterback, past, present, or future, would have been able to have made a contribution large enough to exceed that of our defense. Even Beast's contributions pale in comparison. My comments aren't some sort of indictment of Russell as you're trying to spin them. It's a tribute to that defense of ours, which IMO was the best defense of this century, which includes the Bucs and Ravens, and in the conversation with the best defenses in the history of the game, ie Steel Curtain, Doomsday, No Name, et al.

During our Lombardi season, Peyton Manning was much more of a factor in his team's success than Russell was with his. In the majority of contests, all Russell was asked to do was to protect the ball, not put the defense in bad positions, and score when given the opportunity, and he did so extremely well. But that's vastly different from what Manning was asked to do in the Broncos games that season. And in the Super Bowl itself, almost any competent QB, say Tavaris Jackson, could have played well enough for us to win that game. We were that dominant. The SB MVP recognized that fact by choosing a relatively unknown linebacker named Malcom Smith, who never so much as made a Pro Bowl, for the award.

Fair enough but I still disagree. Russ was ultra critical that year. The running game isn't as good as it was without him, obviously. The dude had almost a thousand yards and its common knowledge when a QB is a threat it opens up the running game because you're defending two players. Pete/Bevell deserve credit too for the innovative offense. Russ had multiple game winning drives, come from behind victories and because he played mistake free football it allowed you to play defense ultra aggressively too. Russ was nowhere near a Dilfer or Johnson....not even remotely close. I have a DVD that goes through all their games and its obvious how much they relied on Wilson.

No one is arguing the didn't have an all time great defense, I think it's possibly the best ever but Dilfer had 1/4 of the production and that isn't a typo lol and averaged under 100 yards per game. Its dishonest to say him and Russ are in the same stratosphere for what they meant to their team. I could throw for 90 yards and almost a pick per game too just like Dilfer.

 

[Ozzy]

So what's your point? That Cam winning the MVP in 2015 was a travesty? If that's your point, then I might with you as you make a solid argument. But it doesn't mean that Russell should have won the award in that season or any other. If I remember correctly, both Brady and Manning got their teams to the conference championship game, so perhaps they would have been more deserving than Cam.

And fyi while Carolina's defense was very good that season, ranked 6th both in terms of yards and points, the Hawks defense was better, ranked 2nd in yards and 1st in points. Oh, and one other little detail. In 2015, the Panthers advanced to the Super Bowl. The Hawks lost to the Panthers in the divisional round.

Another little tidbit. Cam Newton swept the MVP and the Offensive Player of the Year awards that season, so your opinion is an outlier.

Award Winners​

AP MVP: Cam Newton
PFWA MVP: Cam Newton
Bert Bell Award (Player of the Year): Cam Newton
AP Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton
PFWA Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton
Sporting News Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton

2015 NFL Standings & Team Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2015 NFL Standings & Team Stats including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

I've seen multiple outlets say Russ was better that year but regardless it shows he was MVP level play so the idea "he's never gotten a vote because he's never been that good" is a little misleading at the least?

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Some are desperate now, Cleveland where all QB's go to die..............

Too funny - that's EXACTLY what my wife said about the Broncos when Russ got traded Except replace QB with 'everyone' -

 

[CalgaryFan05]

If Russ can return after the bye, put this team on his back, and lead them to the playoffs he has a shot at the MVP that he's always coveted.

1 game out of a wildcard currently, so it's not impossible.

Especially if he somehow beats the Cards twice.

Oh yea, and:

 

[hox]

If you look at Cam's numbers, his numbers (2015 season) are below what Geno did last season. He had a under 60% comp pct. Yet Cam was the NFL MVP that season.

You have to look at his performance in totality, including his rushing stats / TDs that year.

 

[hawkfan68]

So what's your point? That Cam winning the MVP in 2015 was a travesty? If that's your point, then I might with you as you make a solid argument. But it doesn't mean that Russell should have won the award in that season or any other. If I remember correctly, both Brady and Manning got their teams to the conference championship game, so perhaps they would have been more deserving than Cam.

And fyi while Carolina's defense was very good that season, ranked 6th both in terms of yards and points, the Hawks defense was better, ranked 2nd in yards and 1st in points. Oh, and one other little detail. In 2015, the Panthers advanced to the Super Bowl. The Hawks lost to the Panthers in the divisional round.

Another little tidbit. Cam Newton swept the MVP and the Offensive Player of the Year awards that season, so your opinion is an outlier.

Award Winners​

AP MVP: Cam Newton
PFWA MVP: Cam Newton
Bert Bell Award (Player of the Year): Cam Newton
AP Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton
PFWA Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton
Sporting News Offensive Player of the Year: Cam Newton

2015 NFL Standings & Team Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the 2015 NFL Standings & Team Stats including AFC and NFC results and standings on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

My point is MVP award is a joke and very subjective. MVP should stand for the best player in the league. He definitely wasn’t the best player that season. I’d argue that he wasn’t the best player on his own team that season.

 

[hox]

My point is MVP award is a joke and very subjective. MVP should stand for the best player in the league. He definitely wasn’t the best player that season. I’d argue that he wasn’t the best player on his own team that season.

Carolina was #1 in PPG that year. Cam's 10 rushing TD and rush yards had a lot to do with that.

The MVP was well deserved and I don't even like Cam.

 

[Lagartixa]

Some are desperate now, Cleveland where all QB's go to die..............

Too funny - that's EXACTLY what my wife said about the Broncos when Russ got traded Except replace QB with 'everyone' -

Then maybe this will be of some use for "everyone":

 

[rcaido]

SCam Newton benefited from an elite defense & media hype to get the MVP that year. Wilson beat him in every single metric passing except for TD 35 to 34. Wilson had more passing yards, completion, higher completion%, less interceptions, and led the NFL with the highest passer rating. He also finished strong, recording one of the best second half of football 24td to 1int in 7 games. Seahawks started 2-4 and went on a run 8-2. Everyone love the DAB though. Palmer/ Brady were better then Cam that year too.

2017 probably most deserving for MVP votes, then 2018-2020 he was the top 3 QB. Wilson was ahead of the MVP votes in 2019 but Lamar took it from him that year. It was pretty close. 2020 i blame Pete for handcuffing him.

 

[hox]

SCam Newton benefited from an elite defense & media hype to get the MVP that year. Wilson beat him in every single metric passing except for TD 35 to 34. Wilson had more passing yards, completion, higher completion%, less interceptions, and led the NFL with the highest passer rating. He also finished strong, recording one of the best second half of football 24td to 1int in 7 games. Seahawks started 2-4 and went on a run 8-2. Everyone love the DAB though. Palmer/ Brady were better then Cam that year too.

MVP not only considers passing stats, but overall contribution to the team's success. Again, Carolina was #1 in PPG that year. The next team wasn't even close. Seattle was 7th.



Cam had 35 Passing TD + 10 Rushing TDs = 45 Total TDs.
RW had 34 Passing TD + 1 Rushing TD = 35 Total TDs.

Dudes need to take off their Russ-colored glasses. He clearly wasn't the most valuable that year.