Rumor: RW asking to be the highest paid player in history

[theincrediblesok]

or

probably 2 1st round picks via trade and 25m/yr to spend on the rest of the roster


hmmmm....

The Redskins gave up three first round picks and a second round pick so they could draft RGIII. There's no way the FO trades RW for 2 firsts only. If they traded him for what the 'Skins gave up we'd still be getting screwed. The only thing that would make a trade of RW even close to palatable would be a trade so historically one sided that the like would never be seen, ever again. And if that happened I'd still be pretty damn upset.

And the Rams still have nothing to show for it with those 1st round picks (production wise), this is why having a QB is important.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Let's just take a look at 2011, a team with Marshawn Lynch, a healthy and primed Sidney Rice, Big Mike Williams, a healthy Zach Miller AND a top 10 defense (I believe it was the 7th ranked scoring defense that year).

What else did that team have? TJack at QB. That team finished 7-9...

 

[Tical21]

When you have a franchise Qb you pay him as such. It's really that simple. Franchise qb's do not hit the open market for a reason.

And that's certainly been the overwhelmingly popular opinion for the past twenty years. But what if that theory is wrong? What if that exact theory in fact prevents you from winning Super Bowls. Evidence suggests this might be the case. And if ANY roster was setup to try it a different way, it would be ours, wouldn't it? This roster, this front office, shouldn't have to succumb to payoing the highest money in the NFL to anyone. Let alone a player that by definition is asked to throw less than all other players at his position.

 

[Mike 4G]

Let's just take a look at 2011, a team with Marshawn Lynch, a healthy and primed Sidney Rice, Big Mike Williams, a healthy Zach Miller AND a top 10 defense (I believe it was the 7th ranked scoring defense that year).

What else did that team have? TJack at QB. That team finished 7-9...

QFFT

 

[theincrediblesok]

Here's a list i made and how many numbers of drafted players we had in the era of JS/PC through 2014 that contributed a great amount of playtime and I think were hits in the draft. That's 14 players out of 47 that actually were good for us, look at after 2012 we aren't hitting on players anymore, no one can crack the starting position and they become depth players, but as you can see from this year we lost a lot of depth, and that means we aren't finding the right personnel like we use to.


*1st Rounders

2010 draft 8 players
*Russell Okung, *Earl Thomas, Golden Tate, Kam Chancellor

2011 draft 9 players
KJ Wright, Richard Sherman, Byron maxwell

2012 draft 10 players
*Bruce Irvin, Russell Wilson, Bobby Wagner, JR Sweezy, Jeremy Lane

2013 draft 11 players
Luke Willson

2014 draft 9 players
Justin Britt

 

[JimmyG]

So, just for the sake of this speculative, highly opinionated thread - what would RW's trade value be if the Seahawks decided to move on?

I know... It's not happening. I don't want it to happen. But I'm just curious as to what people would guess.

The first thing I'd look at is what the Eagles were reportedly willing to part with for the rights to Marcus Mariota. What I heard/read was Sam Bradford, Fletcher Cox, and two first round picks. I'm not sure how accurate that is because I can't find the link, but I did read that was their final offer.

If that's true, I have to believe that RW is worth something to the effect of three first round picks, a second, and at least one proven player.

Mariota has promise, but is completely unproven in the NFL. Wilson is a proven superstar. So I have to believe that any deal would crush what the Eagles offered.

A couple things come to mind.

First of all, the Eagles offer was just a rumor, at least according to Peter King:

All those rumors of huge offers for the No. 2 pick? Didn’t happen. The Titans never got an offer they seriously considered. That’s because Tennessee made sure everyone knew exactly what they thought of Marcus Mariota: He was always going to be their quarterback of the future

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/01/marcus-ma ... nfl-draft/

Second, here's something paramount to the discussion: we're not just comparing Marcus Mariota to Russell Wilson. Obviously Wilson wins in a landslide. I mean, in this hypothetical scenario, why are the Seahawks entertaining the idea of trading Russell Wilson in the first place? Because of his exorbitant salary demands.

The point I'm trying to make is that we're not just looking at "Wilson versus Mariota". We're looking at "Mariota on a rookie salary for 5 years" versus "Russell Wilson on one of, if not the, largest contract(s) in the NFL". There's opportunity cost there. If the Seahawks were to ever trade Wilson, it would be because they believe the ensuing losses of other players would outweigh the value of keeping Wilson. Other teams would have that same dilemma. It hurts his value.

To make an analogy here, look at Jimmy Graham. Graham is one of the best playmakers in the NFL, and basically unquestionably the second-best TE in the game behind Gronk. To acquire him in a trade, we gave up Unger (who was possibly going to get cut) and the 31st pick in the draft for Graham and a 4th round pick. We've heard this incessant narrative trumped out along the lines of, "great trade, we'd never find a player of Jimmy's caliber with the 31st pick in the draft." Well, no kidding. Why did the Saints make the trade in the first place? Because of salary relief. It's not just "Jimmy for a first round pick". For the Saints, they're essentially trading Jimmy for a cost-controlled first round pick and freeing up a lot of money annually, which can in turn be used to improve the rest of the team.

Mike Wallace (+ a 7th) was traded for a 5th round pick.
Haloti Ngata (+ a 7th) was traded for a 4th and 5th.
Brandon Marshall was traded for a 5th round pick.
...etc..

Now, obviously these players aren't quarterbacks, so they don't hold as much value; also, in fairness, Ngata/Marshall are 31, whereas Wilson is a lot younger. Still, if you asked Bears fans how much they thought Marshall was worth in a trade, I guarantee you they wouldn't have said, "uhm... a 5th round pick seems fair!"

I don't know what his trade value would look like. But honestly, I think it's less than you'd believe. We'd only be trading Wilson in the first place because of his unreasonable contract demands, and that problem doesn't magically go away on another team. That has to diminish his value.

 

[seatownlowdown]

i like to play devil's advocate when everyone is so certain something should be done regardless of cost.

well obviously nobody is saying wilson doesnt warrant being resigned... the real question is but at what cost? all im saying is, before paying someone whatever they want, there needs to be a reasonable check/balance done- especially when so much is at stake for salary capped organization. everything is temporary, and our window is NOW. our defense and run game crush opponents. yes rw has saved us (especially from poor oline play) and even put the team on his back some moments... i wont argue that. but remember that $25+m/yr man is just 1 hit away from being $25+m/yr of dead money

i guess there is something prompting my hesitation as a fan buying into making him the highest paid player in nfl history ... for whatever reason, i had imagined rw as this humble character that put the team first. maybe its an act he has put up? he he's had an agenda this whole time? maybe its just what he wanted us to believe? now we are all attached to this beloved "humble character" and heaven forbid we think of having a different qb. maybe we are just a small checkbox on his "to do" list?

honestly? a deal would already be done if he were willing to take "less" money. and by less i mean 17-20m/yr as opposed to 25+ m/yr. and as you guys are saying yourselves, "you have to pay him whatever he wants regardless" that is the general assumption/conclusion, me personally i just wouldnt put all my eggs in one basket. currently he has the organization by the balls, he knows it, and hes undoubtedly gunning for the most he can squeeze out of em. there is nothing else to it. its all about the money with him, hence why hes not signed long term already. yep, you guys can sugarcoat things however you want. will he get resigned? probably. for what he's probably asking? god i hope not... because our days at the top certainly become fewer.

its gotta be a serious heartbreaker for john schneider and carroll to watch their beloved roster that theyve strategically built up get gutted piece by piece after this season because their beloved qb that they took a chance on decided its either ridiculously HUGE $$$ or bye bye. oh well, atleast we would still have a franchise qb!

i dont mind mike bennett asking for a raise. it couldnt hurt, and hes a different cat so u might even expect a person of his character to even go on record saying he wants a raise. same with shawn. even sherm was the highest paid player at his position for a moment, and deservingly so. but russell seems disingenuous to me. like a politician. you know who reminds me of russell wilson? a young alex rodriguez. yeah, i went there...... and you know, a funny thing happened the first year after alex.... the 2001 seattle mariners happened http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2001.shtml

hey, he had me believin he was different too, but i woke up. perhaps you should too.

 

[Hawkfan77]

i like to play devil's advocate when everyone is so certain something should be done regardless of cost.

well obviously nobody is saying wilson doesnt warrant being resigned... the real question is but at what cost? all im saying is, before paying someone whatever they want, there needs to be a reasonable check/balance done- especially when so much is at stake for salary capped organization. everything is temporary, and our window is NOW. our defense and run game crush opponents. yes rw has saved us (especially from poor oline play) and even put the team on his back some moments... i wont argue that. but remember that $25+m/yr man is just 1 hit away from being $25+m/yr of dead money

i guess there is something prompting my hesitation as a fan buying into making him the highest paid player in nfl history ... for whatever reason, i had imagined rw as this humble character that put the team first. maybe its an act he has put up? he he's had an agenda this whole time? maybe its just what he wanted us to believe? now we are all attached to this beloved "humble character" and heaven forbid we think of having a different qb. maybe we are just a small checkbox on his "to do" list?

honestly? a deal would already be done if he were willing to take "less" money. and by less i mean 17-20m/yr as opposed to 25+ m/yr. and as you guys are saying yourselves, "you have to pay him whatever he wants regardless" that is the general assumption/conclusion, me personally i just wouldnt put all my eggs in one basket. currently he has the organization by the balls, he knows it, and hes undoubtedly gunning for the most he can squeeze out of em. there is nothing else to it. its all about the money with him, hence why hes not signed long term already. yep, you guys can sugarcoat things however you want. will he get resigned? probably. for what he's probably asking? god i hope not... because our days at the top certainly become fewer.

its gotta be a serious heartbreaker for john schneider and carroll to watch their beloved roster that theyve strategically built up get gutted piece by piece after this season because their beloved qb that they took a chance on decided its either ridiculously HUGE $$$ or bye bye. oh well, atleast we would still have a franchise qb!

i dont mind mike bennett asking for a raise. it couldnt hurt, and hes a different cat so u might even expect a person of his character to even go on record saying he wants a raise. same with shawn. even sherm was the highest paid player at his position for a moment, and deservingly so. but russell seems disingenuous to me. like a politician. you know who reminds me of russell wilson? a young alex rodriguez. yeah, i went there...... and you know, a funny thing happened the first year after alex.... the 2001 seattle mariners happened http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/SEA/2001.shtml

hey, he had me believin he was different too, but i woke up. perhaps you should too.

What a ridiculous post. Seriously, Russell is somehow a liar and a disingenuous person because he supposedly wants to be the highest paid player in the league? Really?! So Russell lacks character because he wants a payday?? Ok...whatever. :roll:

Second, who here is saying "pay him whatever he wants no matter the cost"? I can't seem to find one person saying that, so who exactly are you talking to or talking about?

 

[Mick063]

He is going to get better, but how much better? A highest paid player will bankrupt other starting positions. Even if the cap reliably rises at significant levels.

I would really hate to lose him but his play isn't good enough to bankrupt other starting positions. I can see bankrupting depth, but not starters.

Given the choice of league's highest salary or let him walk, I would let him test the waters. What other team would make him the league's highest paid player? I think none.

 

[TheRealDTM]

Given the choice of league's highest salary or let him walk, I would let him test the waters. What other team would make him the league's highest paid player? I think none.

Unfortunately there are plenty of teams that would: Rams, Cardinals, Browns, Eagles, Jets etc. etc.

Every franchise that doesn't think they have their franchise QB would likely give him the contract he's asking for. And that is precisely why he's asking for that much, his market value is likely higher than his actual value.

I want him on the team but the price has to be right, the people saying "just pay the man" are crazy. Anything above 20m a year I'd rather we trade him for picks and/or a QB prospect (sober manziel).I'd miss him but It would be nice to finally see him outside of our "bubble" of Marshawn Lynch and the best D of the millennium.

 

[kearly]

Kearly- doesn't matter to the team if you sign an extension or wait to next year as unused cap rolls over these days.

That's true, but it does make the "chunks" more spread out and a bit easier to manage.

Mostly, the advantage of signing now is that the going rate for QBs will be higher in 2016 than 2015.

Four year rumor doesn't make sense though. Not sure why you would want to negotiate that soon again.

The sooner you hit FA again, the sooner you can tap into market value. I'll use the exaggeration for effect method to convey this idea. Let's say Wilson signs a 10 year, $200 million deal. $20 million a year is a pretty decent payday in 2015, but by 2024, the top QB might be making $35 million at the current rate of inflation, and suddenly that $20 million feels like a rip-off.

So basically, the more frequently a QB can hit the market, the less distanced his deal is going to be from earning top money. This is why I thought the Kaep deal was actually pretty smart for SF, because by years six and seven of that deal $21 million will be Alex Smith type money due to NFL inflation.

 

[kearly]

Alex Smith and KJ Wright comparison isn't fair. Two terribly overpaid players. My thought process was finding another QB on a rookie contract or finding a diamond of a cheap veteran that you like. Maybe a few of each and let them duke it out. It really can't be that hard to find QB's that can play cautiously and run it a bit. Our system allows us to treat the QB position with kid gloves if we have to. It can make a lot of guys look a lot better than they really are. I think there are a bunch of QB's that would have won at least one Super Bowl with our roster over the past two or three seasons.

How about door number 1 is Wilson
Door number 2 is a couple cheap QB's that you like, Vincent Jackson and Lamar Houston, and I get to keep another one of my own guys. I can roll with that. I think within a year or two we could find a QB to win with for another year or two. I know it is unconventional, but I gotta say, I'd feel pretty good with something like that. 23+ million to spend on players. That's a couple of pro bowlers right there. You gotta hit on a QB, I get that. I really do. I'm the guy that has long said you are only as good as your quarterback. But I hadn't seen a roster like this, and not many quarterbacks made this kind of franchise hindering money. And we throw the ball less than anybody else. I think there can be another way.

The thing you aren't considering is that if a QB wins, even if he is Alex Smith or Andy Dalton, he will get paid. And he'll get paid 75% of what Russell is probably about to get.

Any veteran that is decent at all and wins 10+ games would immediately be looking at many millions on his next deal. You'd literally have to swap out your QB every year almost just to keep the position cheap. That is unless you drafted them, but then you have to sacrifice years while grooming them.

It's not that this model hasn't been tried. Look at Cleveland or Buffalo or the Texans. Cleveland has had something like 20 starting QBs in the last 17 years. Only three of those twenty were first round picks. Buffalo has churned through QBs since Kelly retired. The Texans only period of success came when they had a modicum of stability at the QB position for a few years with Schaub.

Baltimore wasted one of the better defenses in modern NFL history because they couldn't find a QB. Finally they got tired of it and traded for McNair. It instantly made them a much better football team.

Russell is not conventional, but he is massively above replacement level. I think he adds 3-4 wins to our team. I don't think you could add that many wins with a bargain basement QB du jour and two nice players at other positions. Wilson is easily worth 17% of his team's cap commitment.

As far as the top five theory, the Seahawks are not like other teams. They add value in free agency with smallish signings, but do their heavy lifting in the draft. Everyone that says Seattle wins because they could spend more elsewhere ignores the fact that no other team even comes close to providing as much cost effective value than Seattle does all over the field, so they can handle the hit better than most.

Besides, the top five premise is deeply flawed anyway. The Packers DVOA has remained equally high after paying Rodgers. The Ravens DVOA was excellent last year despite paying Flacco. Until Big Ben signed, Peyton Manning was top five and his team was one of the most dominant in the NFL the last three years. Back when Brady's salary was top five, he was on the best DVOA team of all time and nearly went 19-0.

Do you think there is a single GM in the NFL that would go cheap at QB if they could pay a difference maker like Wilson, Luck, or Rodgers? I seriously doubt there is even one. The value added by an elite QB dwarfs the value of an elite player at any other position, even Lynch does not add as much value as Wilson does (case in point, 2011).

Thankfully, it's easily possible to pay an elite QB and still strategically keep a few superstars at other positions, so it's a bit of a false choice. The guys we'd be letting go to make room for Wilson wouldn't be Earl, Kam, Sherm, or Lynch. It would be the Red Bryants, Chris Clemons, Breno Giacominis, James Carpenters, and Byron Maxwells. When we are talking about what money buys you, those are the kind of players the extra money would get us.

Superstars rarely hit UFA and it hasn't been JS's MO to pursue them because paying a guy like Suh $19 million AYP isn't all that great in terms of moneyball value. Realistically, how many wins does Suh add? Probably not many, considering that JJ Watt once played for a 2 win team.

Even at $22+ million, Wilson is excellent moneyball value in terms of wins added per dollar. It would be extremely hard to do better.

I don't know if I could really support the idea that our system makes QBs look good. Deep down, part of me wants to agree with you since Pete is such a brilliantly accommodating coach. But the facts paint a different picture. Flynn failed here. Whitehurst failed here. Brady Quinn looked bad. Terrell Pryor didn't suddenly become good. Tjack was basically the exact same guy he was in Minnesota.

 

[Tech Worlds]

Damn! Way to drop the mic kearly!

 

[RolandDeschain]

Damn! Way to drop the mic kearly!

+1

 

[Hawkfan77]

Damn! Way to drop the mic kearly!

+1

+2 what a post!

 

[MarylandHawk]

#1 in the NFL in 4th Qtr Comebacks since he entered the league. For those of us who are slow, that means games in which our vaunted DEFENSE gave up a lead. The best of the best QBs have always been judged by wins, titles, and the ability to bring your team back. Have we even been blown out of a game since he got to Seattle??? This discussion is hilarious.

PAY. THAT. MAN. HIS. MAANEY.

 

[RolandDeschain]

PAY. THAT. MAN. HIS. MAANEY.

If this is a Rounders Malkovich reference, I vehemently approve.

 

[Anthony!]

Damn! Way to drop the mic kearly!

+1

+2 what a post!

+3 Post of the Decade.

 

[ZagHawk]

RW publicly stated a while back that he wanted to own a professional sport's team. Taking a team friendly salary doesn't exactly get you any closer to that goal.

 

[Anthony!]

RW publicly stated a while back that he wanted to own a professional sport's team. Taking a team friendly salary doesn't exactly get you any closer to that goal.

I think he can take a team friendly deal, but the reportedly offered is pure low balling. I Mean 4 years 80 mil. This is really 5 years 81 mil or 16 mil a year and only 11 mil guaranteed. That is not the type of deal a Franchise QB who has done what Wilson has done has earned.