Poll: Wilson's potential behind a good OL

[jlwaters1]

I see his ceiling as being #2, behind Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is simply the most gifted and accurate QB I've ever seen in my life

But also put it this way. Russel is surrounded by the lowest paid offense in the league. No other team spends as little on offense. So really, it's kind of amazing what Russell has been able to pull off, even if it doesn't always seem like much

He's also the most overrated. How do you explain his failures in the playoffs. Consider this Aaron before last season was over was tied with Russell Wilson in playoff wins-- despite having several years head start on RW.

The fact that GB has had 2 hall of fame QB's back to back and as this point of time has only managed 2 Super Bowl wins and 3 SB appearances in the 20 years of Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

To put that into perspective the Seahawks in that same time frame have just as many Super Bowl Appearances, despite having Hasslebeck-- Good but not great QB and RW who was a noob to the league.

People will look back and realize how under-performing their 2 elite QB"s were.

 

[KitsapGuy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF/status/911308122211397633[/tweet]

 

[hawk45]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF/status/911308122211397633[/tweet]

Our passing offense has been awful in 2017, but how does that relate to a thread discussing how he would look behind a good OL?

 

[KitsapGuy]

Maybe if he had a better line, he would be better?

 

[hawk45]

Maybe if he had a better line, he would be better?

Okay, my bad, I didn't get how that graphic was meant to be interpreted.

I still don't get it TBH but I agree with what you say above.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I see his ceiling as being #2, behind Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is simply the most gifted and accurate QB I've ever seen in my life

But also put it this way. Russel is surrounded by the lowest paid offense in the league. No other team spends as little on offense. So really, it's kind of amazing what Russell has been able to pull off, even if it doesn't always seem like much

He's also the most overrated. How do you explain his failures in the playoffs. Consider this Aaron before last season was over was tied with Russell Wilson in playoff wins-- despite having several years head start on RW.

The fact that GB has had 2 hall of fame QB's back to back and as this point of time has only managed 2 Super Bowl wins and 3 SB appearances in the 20 years of Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers.

To put that into perspective the Seahawks in that same time frame have just as many Super Bowl Appearances, despite having Hasslebeck-- Good but not great QB and RW who was a noob to the league.

People will look back and realize how under-performing their 2 elite QB"s were.

Do you consider Russ to be overrated? How do you explain in his failures in the playoffs?

If you think Aaron Rodgers is overrated because he's had some god awful defenses or an onslaught of injuries at the worst possible time.. then you better have the same judgment for Russell Wilson.

 

[vin.couve12]

Top 5 is the ceiling, which isn't something to scoff at.

He's not the QB to lead some super duper passing attack to the tune of 60-70% pass playcalling though (Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc.).

He's already performed at that level so I have a hard time understanding how that's his ceiling unless you don't think he can get better. Based on DVOA, passer rating, 2nd half of 2015 and statistically even behind a terrible line since joining the league he's been borderline top 5 by most advanced stats and metrics.

Re-read what I posted and you have your answer. It's been 5 plus years and you're talking about half of a season with a QB who is extremely streaky regardless of circumstances. I don't waste time believing in things that aren't there.

His ceiling is top 5. And again, that's nothing to scoff at. That's an awesome playmaker\QB. Just not truly elite passer.

 

[IndyHawk]

Top 10. Even with a solid pocket, he struggles with high throws. This us especially evident early in games.

His inability to get Graham involved more often is on him. Russell is an elite playmaker, and a hell of a lot of fun to watch. But if he's throwing for 35+ times in a game, it's highly likely that game results in a loss. He's not an elite passer. Period.

This...
He is not getting better or doing things needed to be better.
.

 

[fire_marshall_bill]

Definitely a top 5 with even an average offensive line

He's a winner, but hardly anyone can put a team on their back with back up caliber players at o line.

 

[Scorpion05]

He struggles mightily in the red zone, which is not all on him, but a combination of the offensive line, play calling and Pete's no turnover philosophy.

You can't be a top 5 QB and be bad in the red zone. He struggles with the fade and fitting balls into tight windows. With a good OL I'm sure it would improve, but Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers etc are just so damn efficient in the RZ.


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Is there actually proof of this? In terms of their efficiency in the redzone in comparison?

 

[Ozzy]

Top 5 is the ceiling, which isn't something to scoff at.

He's not the QB to lead some super duper passing attack to the tune of 60-70% pass playcalling though (Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc.).

He's already performed at that level so I have a hard time understanding how that's his ceiling unless you don't think he can get better. Based on DVOA, passer rating, 2nd half of 2015 and statistically even behind a terrible line since joining the league he's been borderline top 5 by most advanced stats and metrics.

Re-read what I posted and you have your answer. It's been 5 plus years and you're talking about half of a season with a QB who is extremely streaky regardless of circumstances. I don't waste time believing in things that aren't there.

His ceiling is top 5. And again, that's nothing to scoff at. That's an awesome playmaker\QB. Just not truly elite passer.

He's already statistically top 5 and that's with a terrible line for 3 years. He's #2 all time in passed rating and all of his other advanced stats put him roughly in the top 5 now. Improve his line and I don't see how he doesn't put up even better numbers. I think recency bias is clouding people slightly with the past two weeks and last year when he was hurt. I think he could easily lead a high volume passing attack as well as anyone.

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[adeltaY]

Top 10. He can be an Elite Game Manager.

What is an elite game manager?

 

[Atradees]

Best QB ever. Ever. Hall of fame. 6 titles or more.

 

[Seymour]

Top 10. He can be an Elite Game Manager.

What is an elite game manager?

The best he could do for a compliment, with an insult twist.

 

[scrummymustard]

He struggles mightily in the red zone, which is not all on him, but a combination of the offensive line, play calling and Pete's no turnover philosophy.

You can't be a top 5 QB and be bad in the red zone. He struggles with the fade and fitting balls into tight windows. With a good OL I'm sure it would improve, but Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers etc are just so damn efficient in the RZ.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is there actually proof of this? In terms of their efficiency in the redzone in comparison?

In 2016 he was bottom 5 in the league for completion % (40.5%), Brady, Brees Rodgers above 60%, 14th in TDs
inside the 10: again bottom 5 in completion & (at a whopping 38.5%) woof. Brady Brees Rodgers again above 60%, 20th in TDs
Team scoring % in the RZ: 25th

2015: better, but he was still Bottom 10 in completion % (49.1%), 15th in TDs
inside the 10: again in bottom 5 at 36% completion %, 16th in TDs
Team scoring % in the RZ: 16th

2014: bottom 5 completion % (45.2%), 17th in TDs
inside the 10: again bottom 5 at 41% completion, bottom 5 in TDs
Team scoring % in the RZ: 20th

2013: bottom 5 completion % for full time starters (42.86%), 11th in TDs
inside the 10: better, but 16th in completion % at 44.4%, 15th in TDs
Team scoring % in the RZ: 14th

This is definitely not all on Russel, and has a lot to do with our offense, but its certainly not good. The biggest thing I realized with this: Our Red Zone offense is abysmal.

 

[mrkyle]

i dont view wilson ever has a top qb, that you can rely on he is simply, a game manager that can make a few plays.
He only excels when there is a dominant rushing game, that he can play off.
He is not like guys that can drop back and win a game, he isnt accurate enough, not tall enough to throw darts out of the pocket, and has tendencies over the years to flush out of the pocket easily.
Guys that can put a team on there backs and win.
Brady,Rodgers,Roethisburger,Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Newton,Eli Manning,Brees
Young guys that are trending that way.
Carr, Wentz, Mariota
Efficient Game Managers
Wilson, Alex Smith,Bradford, Tyrod Taylor, Winston, Daulton,Rivers,Cousins
Bottom Rung
Hoyer, Cleveland QB's,Jacksonvilles qb, glennon,houston qb, palmer,

 

[mrkyle]

:?

Top 10. He can be an Elite Game Manager.

What is an elite game manager?

The best he could do for a compliment, with an insult twist.

:?
well if you look at the whole league who is wilson actually better than
NFC West he is the best so he has that
NFC North, Rodgers, Stafford better
NFC East Personally i think Wentz, Cousins, Manning are better qb's and dak and wilson are similair
NFC South Ryan,Brees better Wilson and newton similiar
AFC West none of them are really better than wilson but its a toss up with smith, and carr
AFC South, i think mariota is better with a bigger upside i actually think wilson is better than luck
AFC Norh, Roethesberger is beter
AFC West Brady, tyrod taylor similiar player

SO there are 11 i count better than Wilson with 4 or 5 in the same area
SO i would put wilson 12-15 area keeping it real.

Lynch made this offense he was unreal, Beastiest running since prime Natrone Means.

 

[Scorpion05]

i dont view wilson ever has a top qb, that you can rely on he is simply, a game manager that can make a few plays.
He only excels when there is a dominant rushing game, that he can play off.
He is not like guys that can drop back and win a game, he isnt accurate enough, not tall enough to throw darts out of the pocket, and has tendencies over the years to flush out of the pocket easily.
Guys that can put a team on there backs and win.
Brady,Rodgers,Roethisburger,Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford, Newton,Eli Manning,Brees
Young guys that are trending that way.
Carr, Wentz, Mariota
Efficient Game Managers
Wilson, Alex Smith,Bradford, Tyrod Taylor, Winston, Daulton,Rivers,Cousins
Bottom Rung
Hoyer, Cleveland QB's,Jacksonvilles qb, glennon,houston qb, palmer,

Eli, Stafford, Wentz, Mariota better than Wilson??? LOL

Wilson on the same level as Dalton, Bradord, and Tyrod Taylor? LOL

You're entitled to your opinion I suppose. Doesn't mesh with the numerical facts

 

[mrkyle]

is what it is, wilson is in his prime years, has had plenty off time with the same coaches to learn and perfect the offense.
Instead he just kinda still looks like a younger player, were the game is still going to fast for him.

Wilson is Seattles Aikman, good qb's not great benefited from unreal talent around them

 

[JimmyG]

He's already statistically top 5 and that's with a terrible line for 3 years. He's #2 all time in passed rating and all of his other advanced stats put him roughly in the top 5 now. Improve his line and I don't see how he doesn't put up even better numbers. I think recency bias is clouding people slightly with the past two weeks and last year when he was hurt. I think he could easily lead a high volume passing attack as well as anyone.

Someone citing Wilson being #2 all-time in passer rating is accusing others of suffering from "recency bias". Now there's irony. Collectively, the league has a passer rating of 87.9 this year. 20 years ago the league average rating was 75.0. You cannot compare passer ratings across eras. You just can't. It's worthless. It's like comparing the vet min salary today to the vet min salary to the 1997 one.

Wilson had a strong second half yesterday. He was also complete garbage in the first half (up until the 2 minute warning). This has nothing to do with Bevell. Wilson airmailed countless throws. It's his fault. A bulk of his stats came in the 4th quarter after the Titans went up big. I know we like to use flowery language like Wilson "willing his team back" or "taking over the game" but in my opinion a lot of the bulk numbers were produced after Titans started to concede yards for clock time.

Wilson finished the day with 373 yards, 4 TD and a 110.3 passer rating. Great day, but I'm getting desensitized to these lopsided numbers. Again, times have changed. You know who also had a good day yesterday? Case Keenum (369 yards, 3 TD, 142.1 passer rating). And you know who else? Blake Bortles (244 yards, 4 TD, 128.2 passer rating -- and he was subbed out in the 4th for his backup). I'm not trying to downplay his performance so much as I'm trying to keep it in perspective. The game has changed now, let's not forget that.

Since Lynch retired, Wilson has a collective passer rating of 92.3 in 19 starts (which ranks 14th in the league) and a win percentage of .573; prior to that, it was a 101.8 passer rating and a .718 win pct. People are quick to bring up that "no, wait, our offensive line is terrible" or "no, you don't understand, he was playing gimpy last year". If are are going to make excuses for why his numbers have dropped, isn't it only fair/reasonable to take his early-career numbers with a grain of salt since he had probably the most talented roster in the league and the assistance of Lynch? (In fairness, he did have a really strong stretch in 2015 when Lynch was hurt, but that's a pretty small sample size.)