Poll- Pete Carroll: Great motivator, great coach, both?

[Uncle Si]

Bingo! You said it better than I ever could have. I would add however his general offensive philosophy is wrong/poor.
He needs to “free Russ” and sit back and reap the rewards of doing so.

Doesn't need to do any of that. That's what guys like McCarthy did with Rodgers and it led to a lot of injuries for Erin and no SB's..

Right, and after two years of that failed experiment McCarthy and Thompson were fired and new younger people were brought in to completely revamp how the Packers played and used Rodgers.........and looky here, they're 7-1.

Completely overhauled defense and punishing run game with explosive play action. Sound familiar?

That's how we used to be, but Pete and John haven't been able to duplicate that personnel or scheme to get back to this style of football.

I love Pete, and I'm glad he's our coach.......but if you think he hasn't lost his fastball, you haven't been paying attention the last 3-4 years. Six seasons after our last SB trip, and our defense is statistically the worst of any Pete Carroll team since he's been here. That my friend, is what we call a red flag. We've got a couple nice young players, but Pete and John are struggling mightedly to fix this defense, and have been for a while now.

I'm sorry but the new guys in green bay are following our pattern that we are still using. How is Chris Carson not punishing? We are frequently hitting explosive play action to Lockett and Metcalf.

I agree that they are struggling to get the defense right but Dan Quinn, 3 years removed from a SB appearance is having more trouble. Philadelphia, 2 years from a SB win, still can't get their secondary right. LA Rams, 1 year from the SB has also struggled on D this year.

You are looking at the Hawks in a bubble without perspective. Teams change. Drafts are a crap shoot. We got really fortunate in 2010-2012. We sucked in 2013-2016 and we've been pretty good 2017-2018. These patterns run for every team. We do pretty well given we draft late every year.

You seem to think that a FO has ultimate control in every thing that happens. But you can't predict injuries, who other teams draft, what FA's become available, how much a player wants to be paid, and how rookies will develop. You can only control how you coach, how you evaluate and what culture you set up. Pete's clarity of culture is really what defines him and has produced unrivalled Seahawks success.

Is there someone better than Pete? Probably. Are there worse coaches then Pete out there. Most definitely. Odds always favour that anytime a good coach is fired, you'll go through several bad ones before finding another good one. I'd rather ride the Pete wagon that take that chance.

I agree with this.. and not just looking at PC in a bubble, but as compared to BB... which is unfair.

PC is probably one of the strongest coaches not including the best ever. And you can see that in how easily good coaches succumb to the pressures of thus league.

While criticism is fair, people here do not appreciate nearly enough how good PC really is

 

[Sgt. Largent]

LOL what premier talent did Pete get rid of that wasn't an obvious locker room cancer?

Would they have been the locker room cancer if Pete would have listened and changed sooner than what he has?

Yes, he should have done what the Patriots do, trade their aging stars at the top of the market instead of hang onto them too long and give them fat 2nd and 3rd contracts.

Which I think Pete DID learn his lesson, thus no 22M a year for Frank Clark, and not caving in to Earl's demands to be the highest paid safety in the league.

So for as stubborn as Pete can be, I do think he's conscious of his personnel mistakes and trying to do things better. Is he being successful? Idk, that's another conversation.

I do agree with you about signing aging vets to big contracts, but It makes me look at the current situation and think Sherman and Thomas are a whole lot better than what we have now. Although I havent paid any attention to Clark since he went to KC, but i'm sure he would make our nonexistent pass rush better than it currently is. I dont know, its always a tough call. It works for the Pats because they seem to squeeze the most talent out of free agent signings as they possibly can, Seattle,,,,,not so much, but Belichick is a better coach than Carroll so maybe thats it. Like you said, its a conversation for another time.

In a vacuum you're right, but neither Thomas or Sherman would have been able to exist on this team going forward with their scar tissue and VERY outward contention of how Pete runs the organization.

Thus they had to go.....which for as much as we might miss their talent, was the right move.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Absolutely was the right move. They decided that they were above the team and didn't buy in. Hell yes I miss the talent. But once you start calling out the coach, front office, players etc. it's time to go.

 

[chris98251]

Whats funny is way back when Chuck Knox was the Coach I heard a lot of this same stuff, Pete did do one thing Knox did not, win a Super Bowl, but it is very similar in style with Pete giving more leeway for the QB to make big plays, Knox didn't trust his QB's to win games for him.

 

[Jville]

Pete Carroll's program is an annual process ....



.................... where it's about growth and finishing

 

[Subzero717]

Pete Carroll is the 2nd best coach in the league. Its the Hood, a gap, Carroll, a gap and then everyone else.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, all he does is win. Especially from November on. For whatever reason, they just hit their stride. We have been in good hands under Pete. And for the 734th time, just because we may not always agree with HOW it gets done, it clearly does get done in the Win column. But somehow, if you have any criticism of Pete, it means you're a "hater" or you just don't understand him etc. He's a football Coach, coaches get criticized. I'm very glad he's the coach is this team and hope he sticks around for a few more years. I don't dislike the guy at all, one of the best coaches of our generation, period.

 

[thegameq]

Pete is a great coach. But he leaves a lot to be desired in the Xs and Os part of the game.

Yes, he's a master motivator and has got the whole playing not to lose thing down pat. But he has got to do a better job at scheming for opponents. I get the whole simplified defense and offense is easier for players to pickup, which enables them to contribute earlier-but come on. It's amazing how the Belichick and the Pats (there they are again) can exploit team after team, but the Seahawks are content to just "do what they do".

That game against the Cowboys last year was frustrating to no end. It seemed as if Pete had no answers for that game. We just "do what we do", and if what we do doens't work we are SOL--no adapting, no scheme adjustment to get players open or confuse quarterbacks. Just lose.

To be fair, most of the coaches in the NFL seem lost when when plan A doesn't work, so there's that.

 

[Mad Dog]

Pete is a great coach. But he leaves a lot to be desired in the Xs and Os part of the game.

Yes, he's a master motivator and has got the whole playing not to lose thing down pat. But he has got to do a better job at scheming for opponents. I get the whole simplified defense and offense is easier for players to pickup, which enables them to contribute earlier-but come on. It's amazing how the Belichick and the Pats (there they are again) can exploit team after team, but the Seahawks are content to just "do what they do".

That game against the Cowboys last year was frustrating to no end. It seemed as if Pete had no answers for that game. We just "do what we do", and if what we do doens't work we are SOL--no adapting, no scheme adjustment to get players open or confuse quarterbacks. Just lose.

To be fair, most of the coaches in the NFL seem lost when when plan A doesn't work, so there's that.

I think far too many fans get hung up on tough losses like XLIX and last year's Cowboys playoff game. They have blinders on for every game Pete has totally outcoached and manhandled the opposition. Just recall the bad moments.

Last week we totally outcoached and destroyed the Falcons in the first half, but because we played conservative in the second half, got a bit unlucky with some untimely drops and penalties leading to a moderately close game, people go bananas.

it's all narratives based on myopic tunnel vision if you ask me. Pete is both solid as a motivator and schemer. He is not Belichek but there is only one Belichek and we aren't ever going to get him. Pete's ceiling isn't Belichek but it's certainly in the Payton/Reid realm and his results confirm that.

 

[chris98251]

Pete is a great coach. But he leaves a lot to be desired in the Xs and Os part of the game.

Yes, he's a master motivator and has got the whole playing not to lose thing down pat. But he has got to do a better job at scheming for opponents. I get the whole simplified defense and offense is easier for players to pickup, which enables them to contribute earlier-but come on. It's amazing how the Belichick and the Pats (there they are again) can exploit team after team, but the Seahawks are content to just "do what they do".

That game against the Cowboys last year was frustrating to no end. It seemed as if Pete had no answers for that game. We just "do what we do", and if what we do doens't work we are SOL--no adapting, no scheme adjustment to get players open or confuse quarterbacks. Just lose.

To be fair, most of the coaches in the NFL seem lost when when plan A doesn't work, so there's that.

I think far too many fans get hung up on tough losses like XLIX and last year's Cowboys playoff game. They have blinders on for every game Pete has totally outcoached and manhandled the opposition. Just recall the bad moments.

Last week we totally outcoached and destroyed the Falcons in the first half, but because we played conservative in the second half, got a bit unlucky with some untimely drops and penalties leading to a moderately close game, people go bananas.

it's all narratives based on myopic tunnel vision if you ask me. Pete is both solid as a motivator and schemer. He is not Belichek but there is only one Belichek and we aren't ever going to get him. Pete's ceiling isn't Belichek but it's certainly in the Payton/Reid realm and his results confirm that.

Funny you compare him to two offensive Coaches.

 

[hawkfan68]

I think Pete's a great motivator and a good coach. I don't believe he's a great coach. He's definitely in top 10 of coaches in the league currently. Great coaches are guys like Don Shula's, Tom Landry's, Chuck Noll, Hank Stram's, Vince Lombardi's, Bill Walsh's, and Bud Grant's of the world. Pete is not in that category. Belichek is probably the only one of the current coaches that would fit into that category.

 

[scutterhawk]

I'm sorry but the new guys in green bay are following our pattern that we are still using. How is Chris Carson not punishing? We are frequently hitting explosive play action to Lockett and Metcalf.

I agree that they are struggling to get the defense right but Dan Quinn, 3 years removed from a SB appearance is having more trouble. Philadelphia, 2 years from a SB win, still can't get their secondary right. LA Rams, 1 year from the SB has also struggled on D this year.

You are looking at the Hawks in a bubble without perspective. Teams change. Drafts are a crap shoot. We got really fortunate in 2010-2012. We sucked in 2013-2016 and we've been pretty good 2017-2018. These patterns run for every team. We do pretty well given we draft late every year.

You seem to think that a FO has ultimate control in every thing that happens. But you can't predict injuries, who other teams draft, what FA's become available, how much a player wants to be paid, and how rookies will develop. You can only control how you coach, how you evaluate and what culture you set up. Pete's clarity of culture is really what defines him and has produced unrivalled Seahawks success.

Is there someone better than Pete? Probably. Are there worse coaches then Pete out there. Most definitely. Odds always favour that anytime a good coach is fired, you'll go through several bad ones before finding another good one. I'd rather ride the Pete wagon that take that chance.

To add, How does Pete not get Coach Of The Year in 2013, he & John rebuilt the team in just over three years, and fielded a once in a generation Run Game, a once in a life time Too Short Quarterback that kicks ass, and a smothering Defense that dismantled a high octane passing maestro, Payton Manning & the Bronco's to win the Super Bowl, while Bruce "Butt Head" Arians does NOTHING even close to what Pete accomplished, and he gets the COTY.....I Don't Get It.

 

[jammerhawk]

Popularity contests rarely pick the best contestants.

Compared to how bad the Cardinals were Arians did improve them lots in 2013, yet the true COY award should have been Pete’s

I frankly think we shall see if Pete has lost his fastball b/c the team is now facing an all conference remaining schedule that is ranked the toughest in the league. His record for the last half of the season is the best in the league as pointed out factually. We shall soon enough see how the last half of this season plays out. I disagree btw with that remark his record will tell if he’s lost it. I doubt it.

I think Pete is both a great coach and great motivator but like Aros I agree he is not exempt from criticism, not exempt from criticism, not exempt from criticism. The threads around here seem equally repetitive in that regard. Pete’s ways differ from traditional ways and the level of competition he’s faced has been far stronger than that of the AFL competitors. In case it escapes some. This season 3 of the top 10 teams in the NFL are in our Division. The Patriots have a creampuff division and usually are spotted 6 divisional games which gives them an annual advantage not otherwise available to other teams. In saying that Bellichek is a great coach and his way has demonstrably worked so I am not slagging him or that team but it is an observation of an advantage that overstates and allows that team greater success. Some dislike Pete’s ways and are envious of Bellichek’s . It’s hard not to want that type of success. Pete however has a different road to travel and is rebuilding his D. I doubt Pete is happy with how well his D has competed this season, notwithstanding the observations of some here. The record is still 6-2 and style points don’t get you to the dance, the record does.

This head coach is the best the team has ever had, his program is the best the team has ever had, the front office is the best the team has ever had. He is a great coach, great motivator, and better still he’s great man. The detractors can detract away, criticism can be constructive and also instructive but the team is his team and he’s still building it with a talented GM.

 

[olyfan63]

Everything that JammerHawk said.

I especially appreciate Pete's genius as a coach, from my own coaching endeavors in a variety of sports, and working on my coaching craft. Having had the crappy "old school" coaches I had growing up, I appreciate Pete even more. A lot of my coaches in middle school and high school were Vince Lombardi-wannabes who copied his often-abusive syntax towards players, the Marine drill instructor type of approach, without understanding Lombardi's substance. I did have a few good coaches as well along the way.

Locally, we've had amazing coaches like Frosty Westering of PLU, with 4 national titles in NAIA and Division III.
Then there is Brian Schmetzer of the Sounders. Also a fantastic coach. And too many more excellent coaches to list, offhand.

Pete has reinvented and adapted himself several times.