POLL: Geno Is Our Franchise QB

[Lagartixa]

Jim played in an era that was brutal and was elite for that time. Eli may have not been in the top five for a season but when he got in the playoffs he was cluch and has the rings to prove it.

@Bear-Hawk, help us out here. You're a Bears fan. Would you say McMahon was "elite"?

@Bear-Hawk, if you missed my comment to which @Fresno Hawk was responding, I said that not even the Bill Swerski Superfans thought McMahon was elite. But as you can see in the quoted comment, rather than saying "oh yeah, brain fart" or something, @Fresno Hawk decided to double down on it.

For what it's worth, McMahon only made one Pro Bowl in his career, and that was in the 1985 season when the team went 15-1 with the greatest defense the league has ever seen, shut out both of their NFC playoff opponents, and then manhandled the pre-culture-of-cheating (pre-Kraft) Patriots 46-10 in the Super Bowl, and the domination in that game was even greater than the eye-popping score suggests. I loved that game so much, and there were few of us in Maine who did. Oh, how I enjoyed the total silence about football from Mainers the week after that game. Watching that game was like watching somebody play a football video game with the difficulty set about two or three skill levels too low.

McMahon was not among the top five quarterbacks in the league in his best season.

The best quarterbacks in 1985 were Marino, Fouts, and Montana, probably roughly in that order. Simms, Ken O'Brien, and Esiason were also clearly better than McMahon. And that was probably the only season in McMahon's career when he was even arguably among the top ten quarterbacks in the league.

But the burden of proof isn't on me. The one making the outrageous claim that Jim McMahon was an elite quarterback is the one who should provide evidence to back up such a ridiculous provocative statement. Good luck with that, @Fresno Hawk

By the way, you're aware "elite" doesn't mean "you can say positive things about that player", right? Neither Eli Manning nor Jim McMahon was even close to the top tier of quarterbacks for even a single season of his career. The fact that Manning had some good games in the playoffs does not make him an elite quarterback. Manning was very good in the playoffs after the 2007 and 2011 seasons, but not good at all in the playoffs after the 2006, 2008, 2016, and especially 2005 seasons. Eli Manning never had a postseason as good as Flacco's after the 2012 season, so are you going to put Flacco in the "elite" category too?

@Fernie Hawks Fan's point is rock-solid, and your attempts to argue against it so far have ranged from feeble to downright silly.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Marino and Montana were elite. McMahon was on some level below them. He was helped a lot by having Walter Payton and the legendary ‘85 Bears defense.

 

[bigskydoc]

Your comparing apples to oranges. And i would love for Geno to rozelle some trophies for us.

Definitely not elite. Can't disappear for half the game.

Except, I'm not comparing anyone, just pointing out that disappearing for half a game is not a valid metric for measuring one's eliteness. Even the elitist of the elite can, at times, disappear for half the game, or more.

 

[Jac]

Jim McMahon carved out a long career and was an iconic QB on an iconic team. It was a different era, but his actual stats barely rise to the level of mediocre (and that's being generous). He only started 97 games, threw for 18K yards, 100 TDs, and 90 INTs. He passed for double-digit TDs five times in his 17-year career, with marks of 10, 12, 12, 12, and 15 TDs. That Bears team (as everybody knows) was all about Payton and that defense. At least half the league's QBs at the time could have stepped in and had success there.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

@Bear-Hawk, help us out here. You're a Bears fan. Would you say McMahon was "elite"?

@Bear-Hawk, if you missed my comment to which @Fresno Hawk was responding, I said that not even the Bill Swerski Superfans thought McMahon was elite. But as you can see in the quoted comment, rather than saying "oh yeah, brain fart" or something, @Fresno Hawk decided to double down on it.

For what it's worth, McMahon only made one Pro Bowl in his career, and that was in the 1985 season when the team went 15-1 with the greatest defense the league has ever seen, shut out both of their NFC playoff opponents, and then manhandled the pre-culture-of-cheating (pre-Kraft) Patriots 46-10 in the Super Bowl, and the domination in that game was even greater than the eye-popping score suggests. I loved that game so much, and there were few of us in Maine who did. Oh, how I enjoyed the total silence about football from Mainers the week after that game. Watching that game was like watching somebody play a football video game with the difficulty set about two or three skill levels too low.

McMahon was not among the top five quarterbacks in the league in his best season.

The best quarterbacks in 1985 were Marino, Fouts, and Montana, probably roughly in that order. Simms, Ken O'Brien, and Esiason were also clearly better than McMahon. And that was probably the only season in McMahon's career when he was even arguably among the top ten quarterbacks in the league.

But the burden of proof isn't on me. The one making the outrageous claim that Jim McMahon was an elite quarterback is the one who should provide evidence to back up such a ridiculous provocative statement. Good luck with that, @Fresno Hawk

By the way, you're aware "elite" doesn't mean "you can say positive things about that player", right? Neither Eli Manning nor Jim McMahon was even close to the top tier of quarterbacks for even a single season of his career. The fact that Manning had some good games in the playoffs does not make him an elite quarterback. Manning was very good in the playoffs after the 2007 and 2011 seasons, but not good at all in the playoffs after the 2006, 2008, 2016, and especially 2005 seasons. Eli Manning never had a postseason as good as Flacco's after the 2012 season, so are you going to put Flacco in the "elite" category too?

@Fernie Hawks Fan's point is rock-solid, and your attempts to argue against it so far have ranged from feeble to downright silly.

So 2 of the QBs you mentioned are in the Hal of fame. Eli, and Bommer may be 1 day in the Hall aswell. Ken O'Brien has a chance. So your putting McMahon up against Elite QBs is what I'm guessing your argument is. Then saying he only won because of the Bears once and a generational defense.
Ok, but is it Jim fault he played with the probably the best running back EVER. And probably Best defense EVER. He wasn't asked to do more because of that. So how can you just say, he never was top 5 this he never did this blah blah blah. Joe Flacco how did he get in this? Your using someone else's reply to stick you nose into debating something. And if you read my comment I stated I would argue but didn't at the time.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Except, I'm not comparing anyone, just pointing out that disappearing for half a game is not a valid metric for measuring one's eliteness. Even the elitist of the elite can, at times, disappear for half the game, or more.

Except you are comparing, other wise why bring them up? And when i said you can't disappear for half the game. It wasn't at times. It was alot last year. Why do you think we were trying to come from behind last year. And I've said it before this is a team game that's not all on Geno. But yeah I stand by my opinion he not Elite. Just to save a million words being typed.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

So 2 of the QBs you mentioned are in the Hal of fame. Eli, and Bommer may be 1 day in the Hall aswell. Ken O'Brien has a chance. So your putting McMahon up against Elite QBs is what I'm guessing your argument is. Then saying he only won because of the Bears once and a generational defense.
Ok, but is it Jim fault he played with the probably the best running back EVER. And probably Best defense EVER. He wasn't asked to do more because of that. So how can you just say, he never was top 5 this he never did this blah blah blah. Joe Flacco how did he get in this? Your using someone else's reply to stick you nose into debating something. And if you read my comment I stated I would argue but didn't at the time. So pump your breaks master debater. Or should I say Mastur-bater

I was asked whether I’d call him elite I said Marino and Montana are elite and he was not. I also said he got a lot of help from Walter Payton and the defense.

I’m not here to debate anybody. Just my opinion as a Bears fan.

 

[knownone]

Statistically, McMahon wasn't a top-15 QB in his own era. He's certainly iconic, though.

Suppose we're running on Fresno's goofy assumption that elite QBs don't disappear for half the game. In that case, Geno's Seahawk half-splits are better than Eli Manning's and significantly better than Jim McMahon's (obviously). It's only a fair comparison with Eli if you cherry-pick his best seasons. But if that's the criteria, Geno Smith must be elite.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

I was asked whether I’d call him elite I said Marino and Montana are elite and he was not. I also said he got a lot of help from Walter Payton and the defense.

I’m not here to debate anybody. Just my opinion as a Bears fan.

Honestly I wasn't replying to you. It was the other guy that got you involved.

 

[BlueTalon]

I've watched every game since 1981 my friend. If it was such a dominant clinic as you call it, then why did it take until OT to eek out a win against a subpar team. Honestly, Brissette and Geno look like absolute carbon copies. The only difference is Geno has many more weapons than Brissette. Keep drinking the Kool Aid and when Geno craps the bed (he will you can bet on this) I can't wait to hear how it was the Offensive Coordinator/Defense/Offensive line's fault. I've seen this movie 2 years too many and it always has a bad ending!!!

John?

 

[BlueTalon]

He is just now beginning to master the "hurry up" game (calling two plays at once and hardly ever in trouble with the play clock expiring).

I was watching the Jets/Patriots game the other night. Rodgers was good, but he was consistently getting into trouble with the play clock. We were like that with Russ at the helm. Denver was like that with Russ at the helm, including the infamous crowd play clock countdowns.

Not to bash on Russ, just noting that it's really nice to not have to worry about the play clock except for rare occasions.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I've watched every game since 1981 my friend.

Honestly, Brissette and Geno look like absolute carbon copies.

There is no way anyone who has watched that many football games could actually say these sentences in the same post with a straight face.

They look nothing alike. Not even considering their caliber. They are stylistically opposed. Completely different archetypes.

I'm sorry. You either haven't watched them, or you haven't watched closely enough to be able to tell the difference. Not trying to be rude or condescending, but that's just the fact of the matter if you're trying to sell that crap as honest analysis.

 

[chris98251]

Jim had a great arm, another Brigham Young QB, he did not have a bunch of great receivers, he wasn't as accurate as most of todays QB's, he also didn't have a pillow for a pocket. He was tough and injured many times which was part of the issue if I remember, shoulder problem hurt him after the injury. What Jim had aside from that was Moxie, same as another QB people think based on todays stats should not be a HOF player, Joe Namath, he also had Moxie and charisma. He was loved by his team due to his toughness and Moxie and willing to stand up to Ditka many times. That alone got him props.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Jim also did not have as many passing attempts per game as the QBs of today's game. That era was so difficult to play QB. Geno has had 2 decent years his whole career, and his best season is probably not better than Eli's best season. I remember Eli used to throw for alot of yards with lesser offensive talent around him.