POLL: Geno Is Our Franchise QB

[bigskydoc]

Not true Tampa entered the playoffs with 8 wins that year.

That’s all you’ve got. . I was off by one because I didn’t bother to go back and check the record. The point still stands.

The Seahawks got in because they did what they had to do to get in, same as every other team that got in. Just enough in the Seahawks game.

If you want to claim they needed help to get in, well, so did every other team that got in.

 

[Torc]

It's never only because of 1 guy. But he happens to play the postion that guy's must be Elite at and can make up for other deficiencies on the team in order to take us to the next level.

I don't know how anyone can say that, considering the one super bowl we won, we didn't have an elite QB. I'm not saying Russ didn't become elite, but year two Russ was very good and efficient but not elite.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Not necessarily a "must" but definitely almost one. Luckily, his level of play has been elite or near elite for a good while now.

Definitely not elite. Can't disappear for half the game.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

That’s all you’ve got. . I was off by one because I didn’t bother to go back and check the record. The point still stands.

The Seahawks got in because they did what they had to do to get in, same as every other team that got in. Just enough in the Seahawks game.

If you want to claim they needed help to get in, well, so did every other team that got in.

Yeah, you checked every other stat when you went back to get all your other info, but that stat. Teams that don't controll their own destiny are the teams that need help to get in and we were one of those teams that year. What i find funny is how guy's that really like Geno, try and find any little thing other guys say and specifically target that one comment to be passive aggressive.So if i thought we didn't make the playoffs his first year, ok my bad I wasn't like you going back to makesure i had the years correct. But any ways are your points making him a franchise guy nope,only time will tell.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

I don't know how anyone can say that, considering the one super bowl we won, we didn't have an elite QB. I'm not saying Russ didn't become elite, but year two Russ was very good and efficient but not elite.

Russ was elite by year 2. Now was he elite at passing no but he was elite at making sh#t happen when we couldn't run. And the year we won the superbowl Russ was elite at moving outside the pocket dropping bombs. And make no mistake about it we won because of our defense. But all the teams that won a superbowl without a elite QB had once and a generation defenses. We happened to be one of those teams.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Definitely not elite. Can't disappear for half the game.

Definitely has been elite if judging by simple fundamentals and tape. Has managed to produce in more difficult circumstances than almost any quarterback in football since midpoint of 2022. Context that the stat sheet misses.

He's still producing in the face of incredible hardship with his protection. OL has been absolutely putrid so far, and still he deals.

It's been like this for a while. It becomes clearer with every rewatch. His mistakes are rare, his mic-drop throws are often, and he's consistently improved on his biggest weaknesses since seizing the top spot in Seattle.

On a snap-by-snap basis judging solely by watching each snap to see what he's leaving on the field, it becomes undeniable after a bit that he's been operating at an elite level for the better part of a calendar year.

The advanced stats on his accuracy, the CPOE, the tape grinders... they all hint at it.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Definitely has been elite if judging by simple fundamentals and tape. Has managed to produce in more difficult circumstances than almost any quarterback in football since midpoint of 2022. Context that the stat sheet misses.

He's still producing in the face of incredible hardship with his protection. OL has been absolutely putrid so far, and still he deals.

It's been like this for a while. It becomes clearer with every rewatch. His mistakes are rare, his mic-drop throws are often, and he's consistently improved on his biggest weaknesses since seizing the top spot in Seattle.

On a snap-by-snap basis judging solely by watching each snap to see what he's leaving on the field, it becomes undeniable after a bit that he's been operating at an elite level for the better part of a calendar year.

The advanced stats on his accuracy, the CPOE, the tape grinders... they all hint at

Stat guys always try and bring up, when watching tape he does all these good things. And it's usually from the games that are won. What about the games lost. Those are the games that matter. How many game changing plays were missed that could have either won the game,or could have been the difference between blowing out a team and barley winning. Those things matter aswell not just high percentage passing percentage.

 

[Torc]

Stat guys always try and bring up, when watching tape he does all these good things. And it's usually from the games that are won. What about the games lost. Those are the games that matter. How many game changing plays were missed that could have either won the game,or could have been the difference between blowing out a team and barley winning. Those things matter aswell not just high percentage passing percentage.

Dunno. He's undefeated running this offense under these coaches. Ask again when he loses a game.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Definitely has been elite if judging by simple fundamentals and tape. Has managed to produce in more difficult circumstances than almost any quarterback in football since midpoint of 2022. Context that the stat sheet misses.

He's still producing in the face of incredible hardship with his protection. OL has been absolutely putrid so far, and still he deals.

It's been like this for a while. It becomes clearer with every rewatch. His mistakes are rare, his mic-drop throws are often, and he's consistently improved on his biggest weaknesses since seizing the top spot in Seattle.

On a snap-by-snap basis judging solely by watching each snap to see what he's leaving on the field, it becomes undeniable after a bit that he's been operating at an elite level for the better part of a calendar year.

The advanced stats on his accuracy, the CPOE, the tape grinders... they all hint at it.

At the end of the day all I care about is winning. Geno can have all the stats but if he wins 9 games again this year, will he be Elite. NO in case anybody has not noticed players are judged by wins. And all elite QB at some point in their career have that one defining year when they elevate their team to being great. Even if they go to the superbowl and lose it still defines a Qb by just getting there. Recently ,look at Joe burrow went to the superbowl and lost. But every year he's considered an elite Qb. Brock Purdy went to the superbowl and lost, everyone is saying he's a top QB. Geno is better than him in my opinion. But no one care that Geno has better stats.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Dunno. He's undefeated running this offense under these coaches. Ask again when he loses a game.

You mean the no huddle, we ran the no huddle and moved the ball. Every time we didn't our drives stalled. Come on man thees first games are like presean games no one knows what Grub is running there's no tape on his offensive scheme. Talk to me week 10 and hopefully we won't need to run the no huddle to move the ball. It's early nobody can judge Geno 2 games into the season.

 

[Ad Hawk]

You mean the no huddle, we ran the no huddle and moved the ball. Every time we didn't our drives stalled. Come on man thees first games are like presean games no one knows what Grub is running there's no tape on his offensive scheme. Talk to me week 10 and hopefully we won't need to run the no huddle to move the ball. It's early nobody can judge Geno 2 games into the season.

Why shouldn't the Hawks run no-huddle offense??? If it's effective, plays to our team's strengths and Geno's ability to make quick decisions at the line as he reads defenses, then it's to our advantage. Much like having RW and Lynch run the RO. It creates mismatches, which is what every good OC is supposed to do.

Oh, and we moved the ball without the no-huddle, as well, didn't we?

And if the QB must win to be elite, explain Lamar Jackson's first two games this year? And if you say anything about the contributions (or lack thereof) of anyone else on the team than LJ, then your arguments about Geno needing to win become fairly meaningless. It's a team game, not a QB game.

 

[knownone]

Stat guys always try and bring up, when watching tape he does all these good things. And it's usually from the games that are won. What about the games lost. Those are the games that matter. How many game changing plays were missed that could have either won the game,or could have been the difference between blowing out a team and barley winning. Those things matter aswell not just high percentage passing percentage.

What do non-stat guys do besides make baseless statements without supporting evidence?

Mael mentioned CPOE, which is the completion percentage above expected. Geno has been #1 in the league in CPOE since taking over in 2022. That means no one in the NFL completed a higher rate of improbable passes than Geno in two seasons. He's also among the top three in game-winning drives during that stretch.

So, how many game-changing plays has Geno missed in the way you've described? Do you know? Where would he rank relative to other QBs using that nebulous criterion? Without that evidence, we can't determine how much those things matter.

 

[bigskydoc]

Yeah, you checked every other stat when you went back to get all your other info, but that stat. Teams that don't controll their own destiny are the teams that need help to get in and we were one of those teams that year. What i find funny is how guy's that really like Geno, try and find any little thing other guys say and specifically target that one comment to be passive aggressive.So if i thought we didn't make the playoffs his first year, ok my bad I wasn't like you going back to makesure i had the years correct. But any ways are your points making him a franchise guy nope,only time will tell.

Except I didn’t go back to look at any stats, I’m not the one who pointed out the year thing, and I’m not a particular Geno fan, though I’m coming around and pointing out why. Must have me mixed up with someone else.

I just did the simple math of how many teams in the NFC made the playoffs, vs how many didn’t. The better argument against me is that, in fact, teams with worse records actually do get into the playoffs all the time, due to the way division champs are guaranteed a spot.

Point stands.

With extremely rare exceptions, like the ‘72 Dolphins, no team “controls their destiny.” Every one of them needs some level of help, at some point in the season, to make the playoffs. The ones at the bottom of the seeding needed more help than those at the top. Some get that help on the last week of the season, some get it earlier. Absolutely no difference.

The whole “doesn’t control their destiny” thing is a dumb canard. W-L record isn’t adjusted due to the time in the season when the games happen. A win or loss in week 1 counts exactly the same as a win or loss in week 18.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Stat guys always try and bring up, when watching tape he does all these good things. And it's usually from the games that are won. What about the games lost. Those are the games that matter. How many game changing plays were missed that could have either won the game,or could have been the difference between blowing out a team and barley winning. Those things matter aswell not just high percentage passing percentage.

No, stat guys bring up stats, which is why they're called stat guys.

Film guys bring up the fundamentals of quarterback play. The information gleaned from a trained eye watching the true performance of a player. Their strengths, their weaknesses. The severity of their misses and the process behind their successes.

The things you mention do matter. They matter a lot. Those are precisely the reasons why I was lower than most on Russell Wilson and higher than most on Geno Smith. Their performance, as put on film, in the context of what they're doing for their teams.

 

[Maelstrom787]

You mean the no huddle, we ran the no huddle and moved the ball. Every time we didn't our drives stalled. Come on man thees first games are like presean games no one knows what Grub is running there's no tape on his offensive scheme. Talk to me week 10 and hopefully we won't need to run the no huddle to move the ball. It's early nobody can judge Geno 2 games into the season.

We can absolutely judge Geno 2 games into the season with the context that 2 prior seasons of play have provided us.

The reason everyone loves Geno now isn't really because he's playing better.

The reason everyone loves Geno right now is that they're excited about the team again. We are winning, and the malaise people felt under Carroll is gone, so they're optimistic again.

The eeyores are getting laughed off the forum because no one wants to hear eeyore stuff currently. That'll swing back around if we're 2-4 in a few weeks.

This is all human nature. Most people are not actually grinding film and compiling advanced data to form an opinion on Geno Smith. Most are having their opinions formed by their general feeling about the team as well as the general tone of team media and experts.

I've been preaching the gospel on Geno for the better part of 2 years. People just are willing to accept it now that they're not pissed off about everything else in the organization. He's doing the same shit - playing excellent ball.

 

[bigskydoc]

Definitely not elite. Can't disappear for half the game.

Yeah, like that QB, in 2014, who disappeared for 90% of the game against KC. He got benched for Garoppolo, who proceeded to easily drive the field for a nice TD.

It wasn’t enough, though. He put his team into too big a hole for Jimmy G climb out of. Sure looked like JG should have been the starter.

That guy? Definitely not elite. On to Cincinnati.

Though he did look pretty darn good in the last game of that season. I think he even got a trophy of some sort, oh, and a truck too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Definitely not elite. Disappeared for more than half a game. Not the only game of his career where he did that either.

 

[pittpnthrs]

What do non-stat guys do besides make baseless statements without supporting evidence?

Mael mentioned CPOE, which is the completion percentage above expected. Geno has been #1 in the league in CPOE since taking over in 2022. That means no one in the NFL completed a higher rate of improbable passes than Geno in two seasons. He's also among the top three in game-winning drives during that stretch.

So, how many game-changing plays has Geno missed in the way you've described? Do you know? Where would he rank relative to other QBs using that nebulous criterion? Without that evidence, we can't determine how much those things matter.

He also leads the league in passes that should have been intercepted but were dropped and he's terrible in the red zone. Stats! *shrugs*

 

[Fernie Hawks Fan]

It's never only because of 1 guy. But he happens to play the postion that guy's must be Elite at and can make up for other deficiencies on the team in order to take us to the next level.

Trent Dilfer, Eli Manning, Nick Foles, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Jeff Hostetler, even Jim McMahon were not what I would call ELITE.

 

[Hotchy]

Geno wants a new deal. So everything depends on what the want is.

 

[keasley45]

He also leads the league in passes that should have been intercepted but were dropped and he's terrible in the red zone. Stats! *shrugs*

This keeps on getting brought up sans context or acknowledgement that the plays we were running under Waldron were so obvious, most any armchair qb knew what was coming.

When there is little actual in game adjustment happening, the OC goes back to the well too often and fails to do basic things like integrate the run to the degree it at least gives a defense something to defend, DBs who have done any degree of film study know whats coming.

I dont know how many times i sat their white knuckled on a 3rd and 7 or 8, knowing Geno was going to throw the curl route to Tyler on the right hash, just beyond the sticks, because if i knew it, the D did too. And as games went on and one season transitioned to the next, DBs got closer and closer and closer. And the adjustment made? None really, as i think it just became a choice route for Tyler to curl in or run a soft out. Quite a few of those routes were the ones Geno gets dinged on for almost throwing an INT. In reality, it was Geno threading a needle that was getting narrower and narrower... and narrower.

The seam routes under Waldron that were also often 'close calls' were crap routes, especially when they went JSNs way early last year.

That doesnt absolve Geno from his tendency to force balls to DK that force him to become the DB, but i guarantee you that if you account for the ineptitude of Waldron and the fact that our gameplans were 'open book', Geno doesnt lead the league in 'almost INTs'.