PFF ranks our O-line 31st in the league

[twisted_steel2]

Our line is a problem.

Not because it is terrible, but because our players are not healthy or are playing out of position.

We know this affects at the very least the RB, QB and WR positions. It probably impacts what the TEs can do as well, since we have to keep them in to block.

We have essentially been forced to play with one hand tied behind our back this year, (or at least in a cast). The Oline is key to any offensive production. So it should be no shock that the QB, RB and WRs are not making the impact we feel/believe they should.

The question is, this far into the season, can we really depend on our "real" line and how much difference will it make? But without our line solidified, whatever playoff aspirations we have should be tempered with the realization that we at least have to have our core group healthy or we can probably expect to stumble once or twice along the way. Since one stumble in the playoffs can mean one exit - that isn't great.

But there is still hope our guys can come back and get into playing form quickly. Then we just have to hope that they can gel in time.

What is amazing is that with the state of our line, we only have one loss.

And we're 7th in the NFL, scoring offense at 27.4 pts a game. Crazy.

 

[DavidSeven]

While I agree our schemes and Russell's tendencies often make our line look worse than it is, there is no question that the current configuration of our offensive line (w/ injuries) is objectively bad .

Russell's feet and Marshawn's yards-after-contact are the reasons this offense hasn't completely imploded with this group yet.

 

[Keyhawk]

Not that it's a surprise with Unger and Okung out, but still, it kind of hurts. Even before the season started, I wanted to see us draft a high O-lineman in the next draft. Hope we do it.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... t-quarter/

On NFL Radio's Weekend Kickoff this past Saturday, Jamie Dukes was asked which teams had the best O lines. He said San Fran and Seattle, noting Unger as one of best centers and Okung as one of best left tackles. Dukes acknowledged the O Line is banged up, and said that it seems that Okung is injured every 15 minutes (suggesting that Okung get injured often).

Regarding next offseason, I agree about drafting O Line early in the draft.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

PFF can rank my crotch.

 

[RolandDeschain]

They said it doesn't rate, Montana.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

There are too many "what if" players on the line. With Okung and Unger the line significant improves but it really masks the line's weak players such as Sweezy, MCQ, and Carp. Now these are in the forefront thus the inconsistent and subpar play at the OL. I think this review is spot on. To be 4-1 with a bad OL is something to be said. It shows how the team is being lifted by it's defense, ST, Wilson, and Lynch.

3 of those wins were with the starting OL and the Texans game was won on a prayer, so W-L record is not so amazing when taken in context.

What IS amazing is how the D, RW and Marshawn have kept us competitive. Any other Hawks team would have imploded by now.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

While I agree our schemes and Russell's tendencies often make our line look worse than it is, there is no question that the current configuration of our offensive line (w/ injuries) is objectively bad .

Russell's feet and Marshawn's yards-after-contact are the reasons this offense hasn't completely imploded with this group yet.

Hmm! A tendency to move, keep his eyes downfield or break into run when nothing is available. This is usually after pass blocking by those buffoons breaks down. Yeah, he's making them look worse.

 

[Laloosh]

Clearly the front office needs to hire several contributors to this thread. No idea why they're wasting all of those millions on their guys when we've got so many experts right here to choose from.

:229031_rant:

 

[RiverDog]

It's not clear to me how we can be the #2 ranked rushing team and the #10 overall offense with an OL that is rated #31. Sure, Lynch is one of the best YAC backs in the league and Russell is one of if not the best scrambling quarterbacks in the league, but even if you factor all that in, #31 seems really low.

I also don't think the process they use for attributing a sack to one particular lineman is valid. Suppose the left guard is expecting help from his center, and as such, sets up to take away a rush to his outside shoulder, but the center blows his assignment and doesn't give him help. It's no different than a corner getting beat deep when he's expecting help from the safety.

But I do agree that the general premise is correct. The OL is a weak link. We haven't done a lot in recent years to add any depth, either in the draft or in free agency, and it's beginning to show.

 

[themunn]

It's not clear to me how we can be the #2 ranked rushing team and the #10 overall offense with an OL that is rated #31. Sure, Lynch is one of the best YAC backs in the league and Russell is one of if not the best scrambling quarterbacks in the league, but even if you factor all that in, #31 seems really low.

Wilson has 233 yards and Lynch 410, it's quite clear Wilson's scrambling ability is inflating our rushing yardage somewhat (which the O-Line can take a little credit for but not much).

Furthermore, Lynch is averaging 4.3 YPC which is pedestrian in this league (18th among RBs with 30+ carries), yet that's despite his ridiculous yards-after-contact figure (which I can't find off hand). Lynch is playing as hard as ever, so the blame has to come down to the O-Line.

It's not surprise really that both Turbin and Lynch's YPC has taken a roughly 1ypc drop this year from last.

 

[Mtjhoyas]

Beating a dead horse here...again, but:

For everyone wanting to just arbitrarily throw high draft picks at the OL, please look at the last few years and consider the following:

1) How many of them were good players on Day 1? If yes, how many singlehandedly made the entire OL better?
2) How many of them haven't turned into good players at all?
3) How many of them are playing the same position they played in college? I know we think "it's just blocking," but footwork can be drastically different for a guy who played LT in college, that now plays RG.

The OL has been an issue, but it's mainly due to injuries. While we would all love to have starting quality OL waiting in the fold, that's really hard to do without spending a ton of resources (managing draft picks and the cap is a dance).

Honestly, if a stud OL is available in late R1, I'm all for it. I just don't want to get in a James Carpenter, Gabe Carimi, Derek Sherrod situation where we draft a guy just to fill a spot. I'd hate to see us pass on ie Odell Beckham to draft an interior OL who isn't as talented or a no non-sense Day 1 starter/contributor.

 

[formido]

I just get so tired of everything being the OL fault. We don't know what kind of schemes they are running, we don't know what the exact blocking assignments are. What I do know is that our horrible receivers don't help at all. Our fullback cant block at all and our OC isn't very good.

Pete Carroll said this week that the reason for the passing game struggles the last two weeks was the offensive line. He knows what kinds of schemes we're running. It is the offensive line's fault right now. Considering the number of players out, it would be extremely bizarre if it were NOT the offensive line's fault. That would imply that offensive lineman are irrelevant and completely interchangeable. It would also imply that we could cut several expensive contracts and not expect a drop-off in play. Then, after figuring out which parts of a football team aren't interchangeable, we could funnel all that saved money there.

 

[RiverDog]

It's not clear to me how we can be the #2 ranked rushing team and the #10 overall offense with an OL that is rated #31. Sure, Lynch is one of the best YAC backs in the league and Russell is one of if not the best scrambling quarterbacks in the league, but even if you factor all that in, #31 seems really low.

Wilson has 233 yards and Lynch 410, it's quite clear Wilson's scrambling ability is inflating our rushing yardage somewhat (which the O-Line can take a little credit for but not much).

Furthermore, Lynch is averaging 4.3 YPC which is pedestrian in this league (18th among RBs with 30+ carries), yet that's despite his ridiculous yards-after-contact figure (which I can't find off hand). Lynch is playing as hard as ever, so the blame has to come down to the O-Line.

It's not surprise really that both Turbin and Lynch's YPC has taken a roughly 1ypc drop this year from last.

I understand that. But 31st in the league? Second worst, worse even than the Jags? We're 4-1 with an offense that's ranked 10th in the league and 7th in points scored. Are offensive lines that inconsequential?

Like I said, I fully agree that our OL is not up to snuff. But there's far too many gaping holes our backs have had run through and we've won too many games, two of them by wide margins, for our offensive line to be ranked 2nd worst in the league. You could talk me into a ranking in the high 20's, but not second worst. There's too many bad teams out there ranked above us for me to buy a ranking like that.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Not really a whole lot of stats to back up their list, but yeah It's not a surprise to see people criticizing our O-Line.

Interesting comment on Sweazy, was it premature to let Moffitt go? I know our coaches fell in love with how physical Sweazy plays, but he has been routinely poorly graded out after most games, especially on pass protection.

 

[Anonymous]

Boy, do I regret starting this thread.

Don't feel bad, Roland, happens to me too.

 

[Scottemojo]

Yes really. Its the same crap over and over. One person says so and so sucks, then another person reads that and says "he must suck because someone said he did" and it rolls on from there. Very very few of you pay any attention to the OL during the course of a game. That's a fact. Why don't any of you talk about our WR corps that absolutely suck or the fact Wilson holds on to the ball too long? The reason why is because you don't understand what you are looking at and why things happen the way they do.

Could you please explain to us what we should be looking for? That would be great.

If you actually paid attention to the OL during the game you would notice (A) Bowie gets beat...ALOT (B) Carpenter is lazy and takes a lot of plays off (C) Sweezy is the best run blocker on the team and is miles ahead of where he was last year in pass pro (D) Our receivers cant get open.....EVER (we may have the worst receivers in the league) (E) Russell holds on to the ball too long (F) Bevell is a horrible OC

As a poster, you have shown remarkable growth in just this one thread. You have progressed from listing why EVERY Hawk fan, except for you and your great brain, is stupid, to at least telling us what YOU think is really wrong. Good work. Though flawed.

A. True.
B. Not entirely false, but also faulty. Carpenter is a big strong man, and some defensive tackles have shied away from his area in pass rush. Not every time he is standing there blockin nobody is taking a play off. Carpenter has never, not one time, been in good condition as a Hawk, and poorly conditioned players will take plays off. Is it lazy? I am not sure I can attribute all his failures to one of the 7 deadly, After all he didn't get strong by being totally lazy. If bold sweeping strokes are your thing, have at it. I would contend that his poor conditioning was hidden by his timeshare with McQ, but now that McQ is the LT, Carp is being both exposed as poorly conditioned AND becoming better conditioned at the same time. Trial by fire.
C. Sweezy is the best run blocker in space and on the move. At the LOS, he gets blown back by bigger guys ALOT, to use your terminology, while Carpenter has been rather good in the short area, especially if moving straight ahead. Is Sweezy better than the other 4 guys right now? Hell yes. Now tell me which of the other 4 should be expected to be better than Sweezy. The guard playing LT? The rookie? THe backup center? The fat guy who struggles to move 10 yards down field?
D. Bullshit. You lost this argument the second you said EVER. Besides, you already said Wilson has missed passes to wide open guys. So which is it, were they wide open, or do they not get open EVER? I would contend that in space, Tate and Baldwin are exceptional at getting open. Worst receivers in the league? I dunno about that. I would also contend the lack of open receivers is tied to some offensive concepts we are holding to, which is on Bevell, rather than a dire lack of talent. It's pretty hard to create separation running routes between the sidelines and numbers, right?
E. True. Wilson does hold the ball a long time. However, if you broke down the number of drop backs where he faced pressure before 3 elapsed seconds, I think you might notice that for the most part this year, he would have to have the quickest recognition and release in the league to thrive. And once again, you might be buying into perception yourself. If the called plays have a lot of slow developing routes, primarily play action with a deep initial read, could part of the perception that Wilson holds the ball be tied to play calls as well?
F. Bevell is far from perfect. But HORRIBLE? I like Bevell less than most, but let's not grab the pitchforks and torches just yet, after all the guy is cooking with leftovers right now.

The lack of offensive flow right now is not any one thing, it's a dozen little things all magnified by a piecemeal offensive line. Even if the offensive line were in perfect order, about middle of the league would be where I expect to see them ranked, our offense is never going to lead to great pass pro numbers just by design. As run blockers, I would be pissed as hell if they were anywhere below top 10, every single one of them except Okung were drafted to run block first.

 

[hawkfan68]

To say Bevell is horrible is a stretch. He has had some questionable playcalling but Jeremy Bates was the worst OC the team has had. Thankfully he's not around the team anymore.

 

[pehawk]

To say Bevell is horrible is a stretch. He has had some questionable playcalling but Jeremy Bates was the worst OC the team has had. Thankfully he's not around the team anymore.

No, that's a stretch. Retread OL, WR's and the worst QB play since the Erickson era, yet he knocked out a passing game.

You reached a bit...I hope you properly stretched prior...you need your hamstrings.

 

[Scottemojo]

Knapp. need we say another name in any worst ever contest? Though Flores would definitely have some input in this discussion.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Yeah, at least Bates and Bevell have distinct goals and logic in their play design. There was no, and I mean literally no discernible long-range purpose in anything Greg Knapp did. He was nothing but throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck.