PFF Player Rankings Thru Week 13

[RiverDog]

I haven't posted one of these in a while, but I was bored, so what the heck. These are the player rankings by position for our guys through Week 13. The number in parenthesis is the number of players in the position who received enough snaps to qualify for a ranking, relevant information as some positions, like QB and Center, have just one player in the game at a time while others, like wide receiver, can have as many as 3 or 4 depending on the situation.

QB (39) Geno Smith T-#9. Top Ranked: Lamar Jackson, Ravens.

WR (117) Jaxon-Smith Njibia # 20, DK Metcalf #32, Tyler Locket #52, Jake Bobo #114. Top Ranked: Nico Collins, Texans.

RB (60) Kenneth Walker #5, Zach Charbonnet #34. Top Ranked: Derrick Henry, Ravens.

TE (77) Noah Fant, #39, AJ Barner T-#45, Pharoah Brown, #68. Top Ranked: George Kittle, Niners.

Center (39) Top Ranked: Conner Williams #17. Creed Humphrey, Chiefs.

OG (73) Laken Tomlinson, #42, Anthony Bradford #70. Top Ranked: Chris Lindstrom, Falcons.

OT (76) Charles Cross, #11. Stone Forsythe, #73. Top Ranked: Jordan Mailata, Eagles.

CB (113) Devon Witherspoon, T-#24. Tre Brown, #99. Josh Jobe, #110. Top Ranked: Pat Surtain, Broncos.

Safety (90) Julian Love, #7. Coby Bryant, T-#17. Rayshawn Jenkins, #78. Top Ranked: Kerby Joseph, Lions.

LB (83) Tyrice Knight, #31. Ernest Jones, #41. Top Ranked: Zach Baun, Eagles.

DT (131) Leonard Williams, #4. Jarran Reed, #35. Byron Murphy, #64. Roy Robinson-Harris, #81. Jonathan Hankins, #130. Top Ranked: Cameron Heywood, Steelers.

Edge (114): Boye Mafe, T-#30. Derrick Hall, T-#60. Dre Mont Jones, #101. Top Ranked: Adian Hutchinson, Lions.

Just some random comments. IMO Geno Smith is ranked a little too high, that they aren't docking him enough for his interceptions and brain farts. Kenneth Walker, despite being just the 19th ranked RB in fantasy points, is aptly ranked as the #5 running back. FF doesn't take into account broken tackles and making the most out of a horrible offensive line. Safety play is lots better than it was with Adams and Diggs. I thought that Witherspoon would be ranked a little higher than 24th, but it's still not a bad ranking. Byron Murphy's ranking might be a bit of a surprise/disappointment, but he's far from bust material. Besides, this isn't to be considered the holy grail.

Our guards are aptly ranked. If anything gives PFF credibility, it's their ranking of our guards. FYI Christian Haynes has a horrible grade, too, 50.4, almost exactly where Anthony Bradford graded out at. The rookie that beat out Haynes for the start last Sunday, Sataoa Laumea, had one of the worst grades I've seen anywhere, 29.3. I sure hope that John Schneider sees these grades and takes them to heart.

 

[Ozzy]

Thanks for sharing this as I know it takes some time to do and it’s appreciated.

 

[RiverDog]

Thanks for sharing this as I know it takes some time to do and it’s appreciated.

No sweat, man. I have a subscription to PFF, so I need to get my money's worth out of it.

And if anyone out there has a question about a specific player, position, team, etc, I'd be more than happy to see what I can find. There's a ton of information on that website.

 

[StaffAmerica74]

Can you check former seahawks like Ethan Polic, Germain Ifedi, Damien Lewis? Cody Barton looked good on Monday too.

 

[Smellyman]

Well if you believe PFF rankings as it appears you do, the INTs and 'brain farts' aren't impacting negatively because many of them perhaps were not turnover worthy. tips, drops, etc.

 

[RiverDog]

Can you check former seahawks like Ethan Polic, Germain Ifedi, Damien Lewis? Cody Barton looked good on Monday too.

Ethan Pocic, now playing center for the Browns, has a 62.3 pass blocking grade, a 61.3 run blocking grade for an overall offensive grade of 60.4, which places him 28th out of 39 ranked centers. Not very good.

Germain Ifedi, a tackle for the Browns, has a 42.7 pass blocking grade, a 55.0 run blocking grade, and a 45.9 overall grade. He hasn't seen enough snaps to get a position ranking, but it would place him at roughly the same spot as Stone Forsythe, ie at the very bottom.

Damien Lewis, now a guard for the Panthers, is doing much better. He has a 77.5 pass blocking grade, a 74.9 run blocking grade, and an overall 75.9 offensive grade, placing him 13th in the league amongst 73 ranked offensive guards.

Cody Barton, now a linebacker for the Broncos, is having a good year, at least according to PFF. He has a run defense grade of 76.5, a pass rush grade of 64.9, a pass coverage grade of 59.5, and an overall defensive grade of 67.8, good enough for a #30 ranking amongst 83 ranked linebackers. He's definitely playing better for the Donkeys than he was with us.

 

[keasley45]

Well if you believe PFF rankings as it appears you do, the INTs and 'brain farts' aren't impacting negatively because many of them perhaps were not turnover worthy. tips, drops, etc.

Exactly.

PFF doesnt just factor turnovers equally. If for example, a qb threw 8 picks and each one hit the wr in the chest, bounced off and was intercepted, those throws wouldnt impact the score of the QB the way they do in raw quarterback ratings.

Its why, IMO when it comes to QBs , its the far more accurate measure of a players performance.

 

[RiverDog]

Exactly.

PFF doesnt just factor turnovers equally. If for example, a qb threw 8 picks and each one hit the wr in the chest, bounced off and was intercepted, those throws wouldnt impact the score of the QB the way they do in raw quarterback ratings.

Its why, IMO when it comes to QBs , its the far more accurate measure of a players performance.

I am of the opinion that PFF doesn't take into enough account turnovers and where/when they occur as it relates to Geno. A good example was in the Cards game. It's a low scoring game with our defense playing lights out having kept the Cards out of the end zone and we're ahead 10-6 with the 4th quarter just starting. We have the ball and are at the end of a long drive, one of our few decent drives of the game. It's 3rd and 6 at the Cards' 18. As he's being tackled, Geno throws an off-balance pass to the end zone that gets picked off, robbing us of an easy 3 points and a touchdown lead in the 4th quarter.

Those are the brain farts we're talking about. I don't feel that PFF does a good job taking into account the game situation, the fact that in a low scoring game in the 4th quarter, 3 points are like gold. Sure, you always want the TD, but you can't blow scoring opportunities, especially in the 4th quarter of a low scoring game.

 

[SeaWolv]

As I’ve said before, PFF is directionally correct, but some of the scores can be argued +/- 10% or more depending on extenuating circumstances.

 

[Ozzy]

I think

Well if you believe PFF rankings as it appears you do, the INTs and 'brain farts' aren't impacting negatively because many of them perhaps were not turnover worthy. tips, drops, etc.

I don't agree with PFF on Geno. The other sites that use their advanced metrics have Geno in the 15-22 range and that feels more accurate to me.

I love looking at this stuff and like I said I appreciate Riverdog doing this because its super cool and fun to look at but sometimes PFF is wildly off. I forgot which Seahawk defensive player had a monster game earlier this year, probably Williams and PFF graded the game much lower than nearly everyone else did.

But its a super hard job and they do a lot of cool things for sure.

 

[Ozzy]

Exactly.

PFF doesnt just factor turnovers equally. If for example, a qb threw 8 picks and each one hit the wr in the chest, bounced off and was intercepted, those throws wouldnt impact the score of the QB the way they do in raw quarterback ratings.

Its why, IMO when it comes to QBs , its the far more accurate measure of a players performance.

Like I said above they're not the only outfit who attempts to grade players with a bunch of advanced metrics and PFF is an outlier in comparison with the other sites who have Geno in the 15-22 range which feels more accurate to me.

 

[Ozzy]

Ethan Pocic, now playing center for the Browns, has a 62.3 pass blocking grade, a 61.3 run blocking grade for an overall offensive grade of 60.4, which places him 28th out of 39 ranked centers. Not very good.

Germain Ifedi, a tackle for the Browns, has a 42.7 pass blocking grade, a 55.0 run blocking grade, and a 45.9 overall grade. He hasn't seen enough snaps to get a position ranking, but it would place him at roughly the same spot as Stone Forsythe, ie at the very bottom.

Damien Lewis, now a guard for the Panthers, is doing much better. He has a 77.5 pass blocking grade, a 74.9 run blocking grade, and an overall 75.9 offensive grade, placing him 13th in the league amongst 73 ranked offensive guards.

Cody Barton, now a linebacker for the Broncos, is having a good year, at least according to PFF. He has a run defense grade of 76.5, a pass rush grade of 64.9, a pass coverage grade of 59.5, and an overall defensive grade of 67.8, good enough for a #30 ranking amongst 83 ranked linebackers. He's definitely playing better for the Donkeys than he was with us.

I wish we could've kept Lewis.

 

[JPatera76]

I wish we could've kept Lewis.

10000000% same I was bummed to see him elsewhere

 

[RiverDog]

I wish we could've kept Lewis.

It all goes back to John Schneider not having respect for the offensive line. Lewis wasn't playing that badly for us and deserved a 2nd contract. He was a penalty magnet, but he was also a damn good run blocker. Now, we're having to suffer the consequences of letting a good offensive lineman walk.

 

[evergreen]

One of the few we've drafted...

 

[keasley45]

That

I am of the opinion that PFF doesn't take into enough account turnovers and where/when they occur as it relates to Geno. A good example was in the Cards game. It's a low scoring game with our defense playing lights out having kept the Cards out of the end zone and we're ahead 10-6 with the 4th quarter just starting. We have the ball and are at the end of a long drive, one of our few decent drives of the game. It's 3rd and 6 at the Cards' 18. As he's being tackled, Geno throws an off-balance pass to the end zone that gets picked off, robbing us of an easy 3 points and a touchdown lead in the 4th quarter.

Those are the brain farts we're talking about. I don't feel that PFF does a good job taking into account the game situation, the fact that in a low scoring game in the 4th quarter, 3 points are like gold. Sure, you always want the TD, but you can't blow scoring opportunities, especially in the 4th quarter of a low scoring game.

Thats true, but the stat also doesnt account for the number of times the qb makes a throw he had no right to make because of how difficult it was or the number of times the qb made a clutch throw.

Geno's brain fart passes have been far outnumbered by miraculous passes that (as an example) got us inside the 10, where Walker ran the ball in. I documented all of his INTs over 2024 and only 3 have been undoubtedly scoring opportunity killers AND his fault.

In PFF there also are no bonuses for completing passes under extreme duress.

Shouldnt a guy who goes 17/20 and a TD facing consistent pressure on almost every play and throwing into tight windows constantly score better than a qb who drops back into a clean pocket with no pressure and goes 18/21 with 2 TDs?

Interestingly, Brock and Salk had Daniel Jeremiah on and they talk specificslly about Geno and how the PFF rankings are actually helpful to be able to see tbrough basic stats like INTs and TDs. At the end of it all they all 3, given his overall perofrmance over his time as starter, his clutch play in particular, and his explosive plays as rational for placing him in the top 10 range, or better.

They also asked Daniel if he'd sign Geno long term and he said yes... if he can lead the team to victories over the next few weeks. He dismissed the idea that you dont sign him because of his age, citing the slim pickings at qb in the college ranks over the next few years.

Nobody has ever annointed Daniel Jeremiah a football genius, but its interesting that more often than not, when folks who are in the industry watch tape and are asked to assess Geno, they are usually signifucantly more positive about what he's doing, even in a down year, statistically speaking.

 

[keasley45]

Like I said above they're not the only outfit who attempts to grade players with a bunch of advanced metrics and PFF is an outlier in comparison with the other sites who have Geno in the 15-22 range which feels more accurate to me.

Can you post the links to them? Would love to see what they measure.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

I haven't posted one of these in a while, but I was bored, so what the heck. These are the player rankings by position for our guys through Week 13. The number in parenthesis is the number of players in the position who received enough snaps to qualify for a ranking, relevant information as some positions, like QB and Center, have just one player in the game at a time while others, like wide receiver, can have as many as 3 or 4 depending on the situation.

QB (39) Geno Smith T-#9. Top Ranked: Lamar Jackson, Ravens.

WR (117) Jaxon-Smith Njibia # 20, DK Metcalf #32, Tyler Locket #52, Jake Bobo #114. Top Ranked: Nico Collins, Texans.

RB (60) Kenneth Walker #5, Zach Charbonnet #34. Top Ranked: Derrick Henry, Ravens.

TE (77) Noah Fant, #39, AJ Barner T-#45, Pharoah Brown, #68. Top Ranked: George Kittle, Niners.

Center (39) Top Ranked: Conner Williams #17. Creed Humphrey, Chiefs.

OG (73) Laken Tomlinson, #42, Anthony Bradford #70. Top Ranked: Chris Lindstrom, Falcons.

OT (76) Charles Cross, #11. Stone Forsythe, #73. Top Ranked: Jordan Mailata, Eagles.

CB (113) Devon Witherspoon, T-#24. Tre Brown, #99. Josh Jobe, #110. Top Ranked: Pat Surtain, Broncos.

Safety (90) Julian Love, #7. Coby Bryant, T-#17. Rayshawn Jenkins, #78. Top Ranked: Kerby Joseph, Lions.

LB (83) Tyrice Knight, #31. Ernest Jones, #41. Top Ranked: Zach Baun, Eagles.

DT (131) Leonard Williams, #4. Jarran Reed, #35. Byron Murphy, #64. Roy Robinson-Harris, #81. Jonathan Hankins, #130. Top Ranked: Cameron Heywood, Steelers.

Edge (114): Boye Mafe, T-#30. Derrick Hall, T-#60. Dre Mont Jones, #101. Top Ranked: Adian Hutchinson, Lions.

Just some random comments. IMO Geno Smith is ranked a little too high, that they aren't docking him enough for his interceptions and brain farts. Kenneth Walker, despite being just the 19th ranked RB in fantasy points, is aptly ranked as the #5 running back. FF doesn't take into account broken tackles and making the most out of a horrible offensive line. Safety play is lots better than it was with Adams and Diggs. I thought that Witherspoon would be ranked a little higher than 24th, but it's still not a bad ranking. Byron Murphy's ranking might be a bit of a surprise/disappointment, but he's far from bust material. Besides, this isn't to be considered the holy grail.

Our guards are aptly ranked. If anything gives PFF credibility, it's their ranking of our guards. FYI Christian Haynes has a horrible grade, too, 50.4, almost exactly where Anthony Bradford graded out at. The rookie that beat out Haynes for the start last Sunday, Sataoa Laumea, had one of the worst grades I've seen anywhere, 29.3. I sure hope that John Schneider sees these grades and takes them to heart.

I'm rooting for Big Cat to be 1 by the end of the season

 

[keasley45]

It all goes back to John Schneider not having respect for the offensive line. Lewis wasn't playing that badly for us and deserved a 2nd contract. He was a penalty magnet, but he was also a damn good run blocker. Now, we're having to suffer the consequences of letting a good offensive lineman walk.

Is it John not respecting the O line or nor reading through the noise to actually see a player's value vs how they end up playing when they come out of the other end of our coaching system?

If you watched Lewis play during his last year here, he didn't look like a guy worth extending. In hindsight, it wasnt his fault he looked as bad as he did it was the system and the coaching. Maybe John has been reading the whole deal wrong, relying on Waldron, and past, failed position coaches and poor film to make assessments.

I'm pretty convinced the same thing is happening now. Schlereth was just on with Dave Wyman and was asked what he sees the issue with the line being and said again... coaching. Whther coaching the wrong thing or putting guys in position to fail.

 

[RiverDog]

That

Thats true, but the stat also doesnt account for the number of times the qb makes a throw he had no right to make because of how difficult it was or the number of times the qb made a clutch throw.

Geno's brain fart passes have been far outnumbered by miraculous passes that (as an example) got us inside the 10, where Walker ran the ball in. I documented all of his INTs over 2024 and only 3 have been undoubtedly scoring opportunity killers AND his fault.

In PFF there also are no bonuses for completing passes under extreme duress.

Shouldnt a guy who goes 17/20 and a TD facing consistent pressure on almost every play and throwing into tight windows constantly score better than a qb who drops back into a clean pocket with no pressure and goes 18/21 with 2 TDs?

Interestingly, Brock and Salk had Daniel Jeremiah on and they talk specificslly about Geno and how the PFF rankings are actually helpful to be able to see tbrough basic stats like INTs and TDs. At the end of it all they all 3, given his overall perofrmance over his time as starter, his clutch play in particular, and his explosive plays as rational for placing him in the top 10 range, or better.

They also asked Daniel if he'd sign Geno long term and he said yes... if he can lead the team to victories over the next few weeks. He dismissed the idea that you dont sign him because of his age, citing the slim pickings at qb in the college ranks over the next few years.

Nobody has ever annointed Daniel Jeremiah a football genius, but its interesting that more often than not, when folks who are in the industry watch tape and are asked to assess Geno, they are usually signifucantly more positive about what he's doing, even in a down year, statistically speaking.

Those are all legitimate criticisms, but they are extremely hard to quantify without introducing a significant bias. They're intangibles, like rating a woman's appearance. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. PFF does about as good of a job as humanly possible at a nearly impossible task.

Some of their rankings don't meet the eye test. For example, Derek Carr (#5) is ranked ahead of Josh Allen (#6). Joe Burrow is the #2 ranked QB, but his team is just 4-8. IMO a good part of a quarterback's ranking should be team success as the QB is the most influential position on the field. Patrick Mahomes isn't having a very good statistical season, but his Chiefs have lost just once. From what I've seen, the top QB's in the league are Allen, Jackson, Mahomes, Herbert, Hurts, and Goff, not necessarily in that order. And, I'd have Russell Wilson ranked in the top 10 if he'd played in a few more games. No way would I have Carr and Burrow ranked in the top 10.

What I use PFF for is to give me a heads up on a specific player. If I see a player highly ranked whom I've never heard of, it sends up a flag to keep an eye on him. A good example is Nick Herbig of the Steelers. I'd never heard of him before, but I see where PFF has him ranked as the #5 edge player ahead of Nick Bosa and Micha Parsons, so the next time the Steelers are in Prime Time, I'll be keeping an eye on him.