Pete, culture, and quarterbacks

PNW25

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He won a Superbowl and assembled and developed one of the greatest NFL defenses of all time, and turned a 5 foot nothing QB into one of best QB's in the entire league for a solid decade.

What a weird take.

I said the same thing, in 2011.
I think at this stage at 70+ years old and 6-7 years in a row of almost zero playoff success the approach is outdated. I think it cost us an all time great QB because he was stubborn. What was perfect early in Wilsons career probably wasn't ideal later in the career and Russ wanted out because Pete wasn't willing to adapt. Pete is an all time great and created what I think is the greatest team of all time. Is it the formula for today with this roster? Yeah I don't think so and sorry if you think that's a weird take. Maybe you will prove me wrong and this team is a juggernaut and I'm the moron.
 

PNW25

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On the meddling comments, there are levels to meddling.

There's the "I think we should run it here" over the headset in a critical situation. Which is fine, all HCs do that.

Then there's the OC has already called the play, HC gets on the headset and changes the play after the fact, causing a delay of game in the 4th qtr of the playoffs. Pete did this.

AND… "He's running my offense (even though I'm a defensive coach), and the new OC I just hired is going to add to that." That is what Pete said shortly after hiring Schotty.

They are all instances of meddling, but they are not the same. Levels.

=======

Pete's beliefs on how to handle the QB position are well documented at this point.

Strategically, he believes in building the team up first to properly support them. Defense, running game, etc. THEN you go get the QB.

Believe it or not most teams do it the opposite. They take the QB with a top pick with nothing around him, then act surprised when they flounder as they then scramble to build around said top pick. That would describe Lawrence, Fields, and Zach Wilson just last year, alone.

I agree with Pete in this area. And was not surprised when they didn't take any QBs in this draft class, as none of them were even remotely worthy of being the exception to that rule.

Skillset wise he is looking for a RW type. That is what is spooky, he had his prototype and he couldn't win a playoff game to save his life.

Once the team is built up: He wants a QB that takes care of the football, has a big arm, is mobile and can extend plays. All that plus can perform when the game is on the line.

Pete has his dogmatic religion, regardless if his players skillsets fit or not, square pegs be damned, we're jammin' 'em in there. it's about running the ball and playing great defense. And the QB plays off that. Meaning there are going to be stretches where the QB is going to be a professional ball warmer, more than they are a QB as Pete wastes 3 qtrs trying to feel out the other team. Pete will call their number in the 4th when he needs them to finally go win the game.

Any rookie QB stepping into that framework in today's NFL will fail, unless they are an absolute Superstar, and can overcome their coach as well as the opponent.

A new trend has formed and I hope Pete hops on the wagon. And that is teams are building themselves up, but instead of drafting a QB, they are going and getting a highend veteran.

2020: TB - Brady
2021: LA - Stafford
2022: DEN - Wilson

I'd like Seattle to trade for a great veteran QB if available, rather than a 20% dice roll on a 1st round rookie QB. Only 1 in 5 QBs taken in the 1st round since 2000 would be qualified as franchise guys. While a veteran Brady, Stafford, Wilson, Montana, Farve, Manning, etc. is 100%.

The narrative out there that Pete is some kinda QB whisperer is odd. College is college. Carson who he had the least amount of time with is the only one who did anything in the NFL. In the pros, no QBs did anything substantive under Pete, or even show massive improvement. Wilson is the one guy in Pete's NFL career you can point to, and he is a unicorn. Unicorn's don't grow on trees, if you will.

This season will be a reminder once again, that you need a QB to win in the NFL, and they are hard to find. If you've been watching the NFL for any length of time, you already know this of course.

You want to see it look like the 2011 season ideally. Where they have a top 5 defense, and a top 5 running game, finish with a mediocre record, but they are just a QB away from being contenders again.
Fantastic post and I agree 10%
 

Sgt. Largent

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I think at this stage at 70+ years old and 6-7 years in a row of almost zero playoff success the approach is outdated. I think it cost us an all time great QB because he was stubborn. What was perfect early in Wilsons career probably wasn't ideal later in the career and Russ wanted out because Pete wasn't willing to adapt. Pete is an all time great and created what I think is the greatest team of all time. Is it the formula for today with this roster? Yeah I don't think so and sorry if you think that's a weird take. Maybe you will prove me wrong and this team is a juggernaut and I'm the moron.

My point is not our current team, it's that you prefaced your entire opinion with "I think Pete's a better college QB."

Dude won a SB and has one of the highest win percentages of any current tenured NFL coach, if you don't think that dispels your opinion then I don't know what would.
 

scutterhawk

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I'd rather have Stockton, Malone, and Hornacek all able to take that last shot, rather than have Iverson go 1-on-5 and throw up some off-balance Hail Mary. MJ was the only guy who could make 1-on-5 actually work. So give me Stockton over Iverson. Stockton has made his share of GW shots because the D chose to take away Malone.

Here is the case in point:

LOL Takes me back to my Highschool days ^, We had a gym coach (ex Marine drill instructor) who had a bit of warped sense of humor, he had us playing Basketball with boxing gloves on, and there were no rules LOL, Anyways, back to Football using a Basketball? LOLOLOL
 

PNW25

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My point is not our current team, it's that you prefaced your entire opinion with "I think Pete's a better college QB."

Dude won a SB and has one of the highest win percentages of any current tenured NFL coach, if you don't think that dispels your opinion then I don't know what would.
It was a misunderstanding then and I didn't write it correctly. Obviously Pete is/was a great NFL coach and you're still arguing that was my point when its clear it wasn't. We can keep arguing though if you want? For the third time......That's not what I meant.
 

scutterhawk

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I think at this stage at 70+ years old and 6-7 years in a row of almost zero playoff success the approach is outdated. I think it cost us an all time great QB because he was stubborn. What was perfect early in Wilsons career probably wasn't ideal later in the career and Russ wanted out because Pete wasn't willing to adapt. Pete is an all time great and created what I think is the greatest team of all time. Is it the formula for today with this roster? Yeah I don't think so and sorry if you think that's a weird take. Maybe you will prove me wrong and this team is a juggernaut and I'm the moron.
The last "6-7 years in a row" were with a lesser acrobatic Russell Wilson "Cooking" shit 'HIS WAY' so the 27 to 34 year-old gun slinger has to take his FULL SHARE of the criticisms there too.
When things go great, Russell Wilson is the 'SHIT' when Wilson makes a crap play, or has a few bad games, AND HE MOST CERTAINLY DID, it's all on Pete????? NOPE!
 

PNW25

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So you're going to argue Wilson wasn't good the past 6-7 years and that was the one thing holding this roster back? Seriously?

And where in my argument did I say its all Pete's fault and zero Wilsons fault? You good? Your anti Wilson stuff is bizarre. We get it you think he sucked and now that he's gone this team will take off. Maybe you will be proven right. I doubt it though.
 

scutterhawk

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My point is not our current team, it's that you prefaced your entire opinion with "I think Pete's a better college QB."

Dude won a SB and has one of the highest win percentages of any current tenured NFL coach, if you don't think that dispels your opinion then I don't know what would.
LOL, He went from Pete's rah rah ways only worked for "college", (discovered that wasn't going to work) to the Pete's 'TOO OLD' that Twisted, Fade & a few others started parroting.
 

scutterhawk

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So you're going to argue Wilson wasn't good the past 6-7 years and that was the one thing holding this roster back? Seriously?

And where in my argument did I say its all Pete's fault and zero Wilsons fault? You good? Your anti Wilson stuff is bizarre. We get it you think he sucked and now that he's gone this team will take off. Maybe you will be proven right. I doubt it though.
NO,> Y-O-U < pointed to the last 6-7 years of failure being ALL Pete's doing, I just pointed out that IT'S A TEAM SPORT, WHERE EVERYONE gets their fair share of EATS, eh.
 

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1 of 2 scenarios:
Either Pete's consistent winning and great QBs spanning 20 years as a Head Coach stopped abruptly 5 years ago and Wilson has carried the team since.
Or
The troubles of the recent seasons have more to do with RWs unwillingness to play Pete-ball.
 

Sgt. Largent

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It was a misunderstanding then and I didn't write it correctly. Obviously Pete is/was a great NFL coach and you're still arguing that was my point when its clear it wasn't. We can keep arguing though if you want? For the third time......That's not what I meant.

Fair enough.

I also wanted Pete gone a couple years ago, but I disagree about his handling of Russell........and that will prove me right when he looks EXACTLY the same in Denver and continues to regress as he slows down and doesn't have the escapability.

Russell and others disagree, but Pete and John knew exactly what Russell's strengths were, and it's not hucking the ball all over the field 50 times a game.

Pete's the reason Russell's going to be putting on a gold jacket in 10 years.
 

PNW25

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Fair enough.

I also wanted Pete gone a couple years ago, but I disagree about his handling of Russell........and that will prove me right when he looks EXACTLY the same in Denver and continues to regress as he slows down and doesn't have the escapability.

Russell and others disagree, but Pete and John knew exactly what Russell's strengths were, and it's not hucking the ball all over the field 50 times a game.

Pete's the reason Russell's going to be putting on a gold jacket in 10 years.
It’s entirely possible but I predict Russ is going to be a monster in Denver much like he was here. I think we got hypercritical of his faults out of boredom and now that we get to watch someone else do it we may get a different perspective on how critical we were of Wilson’s faults. Either way it’s going to be fun to watch it unfold. I hope you’re right because we have draft capitol banking on it.

As critical as I have been of Pete I do think they helped Wilson immensely early on. I think he’s an all time great either way but there is no denying their approach with him was really, really good.

This year is fascinating because we all get a chance to test out our theories the past few years. Who knows maybe Seattle and Russ flourish post divorce?
 

toffee

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I think at this stage at 70+ years old and 6-7 years in a row of almost zero playoff success the approach is outdated. I think it cost us an all time great QB because he was stubborn. What was perfect early in Wilsons career probably wasn't ideal later in the career and Russ wanted out because Pete wasn't willing to adapt. Pete is an all time great and created what I think is the greatest team of all time. Is it the formula for today with this roster? Yeah I don't think so and sorry if you think that's a weird take. Maybe you will prove me wrong and this team is a juggernaut and I'm the moron.
2019, revisit 2019! If our RBs didn't get hurt, we will go very deep into the playoff, I therefore respectfully disagree with your 6-7 years in a row statement.

For the entire 2019 post season, Marshawn carried 18 times for 33 yards, that was 1.8 yards per carry. Russ? 61 pass attempts for 602 yards, 2 TDs. 2019 also show that our franchise QB couldn't carry the team single handedly without a running game. The same 2019, Carson carried 278 attempts averaged 4.4 yards per carry totally 1230 yards. Penny was 5.7 yards per carry, total 370 yards.

I think it was reasonable for front office and Pete to conclude that Russell needs a balanced offense with great running game to thrive.
 
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Sgt. Largent

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It’s entirely possible but I predict Russ is going to be a monster in Denver much like he was here. I think we got hypercritical of his faults out of boredom and now that we get to watch someone else do it we may get a different perspective on how critical we were of Wilson’s faults. Either way it’s going to be fun to watch it unfold. I hope you’re right because we have draft capitol banking on it.

As critical as I have been of Pete I do think they helped Wilson immensely early on. I think he’s an all time great either way but there is no denying their approach with him was really, really good.

This year is fascinating because we all get a chance to test out our theories the past few years. Who knows maybe Seattle and Russ flourish post divorce?

Oh I'm sure Russell will still be a good QB in Denver for a couple more years until they have to fork over 50M+ for him.

Because like here in the beginning, Denver has a good defense and run game.

My point is he's not going to look any different, nor will how they use him look any different. Balanced attack, with explosive plays off of Russell buying time.

That's been his game since high school. So all the "Pete's not using Wilson correctly" crowd is not going to be vindicated when he looks exactly the same in Denver and they still finish 3rd in their own division.
 

PNW25

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I agree with the first part and its a fair point. 2019 if the running game stayed healthy we definitely had a shot.

On the second point....Meh I sort of agree and don't. I don't think any QB can carry a team but Russ is about as good as anyone at covering a bad roster. Multiple years multiple outlets had our roster as a bottom third of the league and yet we won 10+ games every year outside of a missed kick and last year. Russ is really, really good. I think 2015 we had zero running game and what most considered the worst line in the league and Russ put up monster numbers. I'm not sure what else he could of done really.

Like I said above I hope the gamble pays off but I think Russ was probably more valuable than we realize overall. I would love to see what Fade said and a rebuild of the SB team. You won't get another LOB but a great defense, pieces on offense and then go get your QB and you give yourself a shot.
 

PNW25

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Oh I'm sure Russell will still be a good QB in Denver for a couple more years until they have to fork over 50M+ for him.

Because like here in the beginning, Denver has a good defense and run game.

My point is he's not going to look any different, nor will how they use him look any different. Balanced attack, with explosive plays off of Russell buying time.

That's been his game since high school. So all the "Pete's not using Wilson correctly" crowd is not going to be vindicated when he looks exactly the same in Denver and they still finish 3rd in their own division.
But this makes it sound like there are dozens of guys better than Russ and that his style holds teams back. Cowherd had a segment on and they talked about who are the guys you know can win a SB flaws and all. They listed 8 guys and Russ was one of them. I think that's completely fair. Is he perfect? No but neither are any of the other guys on the list....we are hypercritical of his flaws because he's different. Russ gives Denver a chance when most teams, Seattle included now don't have one.

I do agree in part but its more fun to argue as its the off season, you understand.
 
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sc85sis

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On the meddling comments, there are levels to meddling.

There's the "I think we should run it here" over the headset in a critical situation. Which is fine, all HCs do that.

Then there's the OC has already called the play, HC gets on the headset and changes the play after the fact, causing a delay of game in the 4th qtr of the playoffs. Pete did this.

AND… "He's running my offense (even though I'm a defensive coach), and the new OC I just hired is going to add to that." That is what Pete said shortly after hiring Schotty.

They are all instances of meddling, but they are not the same. Levels.

=======

Pete's beliefs on how to handle the QB position are well documented at this point.

Strategically, he believes in building the team up first to properly support them. Defense, running game, etc. THEN you go get the QB.

Believe it or not most teams do it the opposite. They take the QB with a top pick with nothing around him, then act surprised when they flounder as they then scramble to build around said top pick. That would describe Lawrence, Fields, and Zach Wilson just last year, alone.

I agree with Pete in this area. And was not surprised when they didn't take any QBs in this draft class, as none of them were even remotely worthy of being the exception to that rule.

Skillset wise he is looking for a RW type. That is what is spooky, he had his prototype and he couldn't win a playoff game to save his life.

Once the team is built up: He wants a QB that takes care of the football, has a big arm, is mobile and can extend plays. All that plus can perform when the game is on the line.

Pete has his dogmatic religion, regardless if his players skillsets fit or not, square pegs be damned, we're jammin' 'em in there. it's about running the ball and playing great defense. And the QB plays off that. Meaning there are going to be stretches where the QB is going to be a professional ball warmer, more than they are a QB as Pete wastes 3 qtrs trying to feel out the other team. Pete will call their number in the 4th when he needs them to finally go win the game.

Any rookie QB stepping into that framework in today's NFL will fail, unless they are an absolute Superstar, and can overcome their coach as well as the opponent.

A new trend has formed and I hope Pete hops on the wagon. And that is teams are building themselves up, but instead of drafting a QB, they are going and getting a highend veteran.

2020: TB - Brady
2021: LA - Stafford
2022: DEN - Wilson

I'd like Seattle to trade for a great veteran QB if available, rather than a 20% dice roll on a 1st round rookie QB. Only 1 in 5 QBs taken in the 1st round since 2000 would be qualified as franchise guys. While a veteran Brady, Stafford, Wilson, Montana, Farve, Manning, etc. is 100%.

The narrative out there that Pete is some kinda QB whisperer is odd. College is college. Carson who he had the least amount of time with is the only one who did anything in the NFL. In the pros, no QBs did anything substantive under Pete, or even show massive improvement. Wilson is the one guy in Pete's NFL career you can point to, and he is a unicorn. Unicorn's don't grow on trees, if you will.

This season will be a reminder once again, that you need a QB to win in the NFL, and they are hard to find. If you've been watching the NFL for any length of time, you already know this of course.

You want to see it look like the 2011 season ideally. Where they have a top 5 defense, and a top 5 running game, finish with a mediocre record, but they are just a QB away from being contenders again.
But if the coach doesn't like the call, it's his job to overturn it. That's why he's the head coach. Had Pete done this in the 2014 Super Bowl, you'd all have been thrilled with him.

As far as "he's running my offense" - again, he's the head coach. It was his offense at USC too. Ask Norm Chow (who repeatedly said it was Pete's offense not his).
 

toffee

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Fair enough.

I also wanted Pete gone a couple years ago, but I disagree about his handling of Russell........and that will prove me right when he looks EXACTLY the same in Denver and continues to regress as he slows down and doesn't have the escapability.

Russell and others disagree, but Pete and John knew exactly what Russell's strengths were, and it's not hucking the ball all over the field 50 times a game.

Pete's the reason Russell's going to be putting on a gold jacket in 10 years.
I agree with you 100% but quite sure Russ totally disagree with us. Oh Russ and John63 disagree.
 

PNW25

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NO,> Y-O-U < pointed to the last 6-7 years of failure being ALL Pete's doing, I just pointed out that IT'S A TEAM SPORT, WHERE EVERYONE gets their fair share of EATS, eh.
I clarified but keep carying the Pete is infallible torch and getting offended anytime someone is slightly critical. Ironically though you've blamed Russ for the teams failures and given Pete a complete pass. Well done.
 
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