Pete, culture, and quarterbacks

sc85sis

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PNW25

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I think Pete's system works better in College and I still think like multiple players have said after leaving that he meddles in the offense and holds it back. But having said that, I do think his unique culture also allows QB's to play better early on and its good for guys who aren't elite and gives them a better chance to succeed. All of that sounds contradictory but its where I'm at. I have zero reason to doubt a Greg Olsen who said it was absolutely strange to see a coach treat an offense with a garage full of lambo's like he had a fleet of outbacks. Olsen loves Pete by the way so I don't think it was pettiness on his part. I guess we will find out this year which is what makes this debate fun.
 

TwistedHusky

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That was then.

Pete absolutely WAS tremendous at finding ways to use players in ways that maximize their effectiveness while mitigating their weaknesses.

Examples like how he used Kam and Browner come immediately to mind.

Then he started to focus on how he wanted to play instead of how his pieces best SHOULD be played. Examples are how he used guys like Jimmy and even that cornerback we released that magically became tremendous against TEs.
At some point, things flipped from what extracted the greatest contribution from the individual athlete (exceptional athletes specifically), to whatever Pete decided was important - regardless of whether he had the pieces to execute or more importantly - whether it made sense to even execute that way with those pieces.

So we will see.
Nobody is disputing that Pete was an exceptional enabler of talent or builder of roster.
The problem is the word WAS. Because he hasn't shown signs of doing any of that exceptionally well anymore in almost half a decade.
And again, that requires exceptional athletes/players. Neither of our QBs seem to qualify.
But maybe things will change?
 

PNW25

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I agree. I think as he's gotten older he might be a little more stuck in his ways. I could be completely wrong and its just a hunch combined with what multiple ex-players have said.
 

scutterhawk

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Damn good article...Notice the first two responses? LOL these guys weren't having any of it.
MESHING more than 53 different personalities, building POSITIVITY and self-assurance is what the article was all about, and NO, it's NOT JUST for College players, that's what Palmer was alluding to.... Playing for some other Coaches in the NFL, and how Pete Carroll's way was the missing ingredient.
This "Pete messes/interferes with the Offense" is CRAP, it sounds stupid because it IS stupid to keep on repeating that.
There were times when Russell Wilson was scrambling WHEN HE DIDN'T NEED TO, times when he would only do things his own way, I'm not arguing that he didn't have success, but there were times that he DID NOT optimize his >opportunities< when they were there to be had also.
I guess if you have a dislike for Pete Carroll, there's no article or player that's ever going to change your negativities on him.
Just gonna say, Pete still has the multi-million-dollar job as HC for the Seahawks, and his critics/doubters are not only WRONG, they're on the outside looking in.
Can't wait to see what John63 with all his expertise has to say about the article, eh? LOL
 

BASF

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Look, Carroll ruined too many fantasy seasons for the people who drafted Wilson in the first round by not allowing him to throw fifty times a game. They can't just let that go man. They lost too much money on the entry fee.
 

TeamoftheCentury

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That is one of the best football articles I've ever read. I just sent it to my youngest son who leaves for Ohio soon (from Orlando) to play college football. He's had the benefit of great LB coaches that have believed in him and he's going into a great culture of one of the winningest programs in history of CFB.

Anyway, I don't think just positivity gets it done. You need talent. But you can sure make or break someone with potential.

Thanks for reminding me how fortunate we are to have Pete.
 

Exittium

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We get it twisted, you hate/dislike Pete Carroll and want him gone, hence why anything posted involving PC has a response from you going full bore "WAS" and lobbying somehow for the dude to begone, yet you provide no alternatives of WHO could be a fore sure equal to better coach. Other times such at this you like to play it 50/50 i.e. He WAS good BUUUUUTT idk what poster said it, but they're right in calling you the .net Eeyore.. thought Blitzer was bad but damn you take the cake by a mile.
 

Spin Doctor

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Damn good article...Notice the first two responses? LOL these guys weren't having any of it.
MESHING more than 53 different personalities, building POSITIVITY and self-assurance is what the article was all about, and NO, it's NOT JUST for College players, that's what Palmer was alluding to.... Playing for some other Coaches in the NFL, and how Pete Carroll's way was the missing ingredient.
This "Pete messes/interferes with the Offense" is CRAP, it sounds stupid because it IS stupid to keep on repeating that.
There were times when Russell Wilson was scrambling WHEN HE DIDN'T NEED TO, times when he would only do things his own way, I'm not arguing that he didn't have success, but there were times that he DID NOT optimize his >opportunities< when they were there to be had also.
I guess if you have a dislike for Pete Carroll, there's no article or player that's ever going to change your negativities on him.
Just gonna say, Pete still has the multi-million-dollar job as HC for the Seahawks, and his critics/doubters are not only WRONG, they're on the outside looking in.
Can't wait to see what John63 with all his expertise has to say about the article, eh? LOL
Like it or not, the Seahawks offense has been very hit or miss under Pete Carroll. He also has a habit of hiring and keeping subpar offensive coordinators/coaches such as Cable, Bevell, Bates and Schottenheimer -- though Schottenheimer wasn't so bad with us. I think it will be very telling how Wilson looks under a more offensive minded OC. Carroll is very much so a guy that likes to win his way -- as we can see in playoff games. Some of the talent utilization has been questionable as well. Forcing Jimmy Graham to play as an inline blocking TE was a head scratching decision. Somewhere down the line, Carroll had to OK that.

This Lock/Geno experiment is going to play out exactly like every other reclamation project that we have under Carroll. We seem to have a Dion Jordan figure hanging around every year, this year Lock and Geno are that.

This article is just a fluff piece, Carroll is not some QB mastermind or QB guru -- if anything he's hindered his offenses in the playoffs.
 

Spin Doctor

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We get it twisted, you hate/dislike Pete Carroll and want him gone, hence why anything posted involving PC has a response from you going full bore "WAS" and lobbying somehow for the dude to begone, yet you provide no alternatives of WHO could be a fore sure equal to better coach. Other times such at this you like to play it 50/50 i.e. He WAS good BUUUUUTT idk what poster said it, but they're right in calling you the .net Eeyore.. thought Blitzer was bad but damn you take the cake by a mile.
Exactly what has Pete Carroll done since our last Super Bowl appearance? For a guy that many around here bill as one of the best HC's in the NFL -- he sure has been getting lackluster results. We have a single playoff win in 5 years, we don't have a single quality playoff win since 2014. Since 2015 no team has lost more in the playoffs than Seattle has. Our team has slowly been slipping into irrelevancy. This is despite the fact that Seattle had some stacked teams -- especially in 2015.

Carroll has struggled to keep up with NFL trends and he's hired and kept subpar coaching talent. Ken Norton Jr.? Come on man. There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Carroll. The "well who would you hire that would be better?" line is nothing but deflection from the obvious that have been plaguing this franchise for awhile now.

Carroll is now one of the oldest coaches to ever coach the nfl at this point, and he's been struggling to get anything going for the last few years. The fandom of this team really likes to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like they don't see what is happening. We could see it in full force with Wilson "oh, Wilson wants to stay -- this is just the mediots trying to drum clicks". I saw those sentiments everywhere around here, guess what happened?

Carroll is a fading a star.
 

Exittium

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great screen name there Spin is fits for a good 99% of your lackluster posts.
Fluff piece hardly. But go what what rocks your boat i guess and gives you the warm fuzzies.

I think Pete Carroll Knows whats the team needs, and knows that Go Hawks, Seahawks Russell, became, "WhY nOt Me?" Team Russell. Carroll has also had to deal with a QB eating up most the cap space.. please since your so "intelligent" explain to us plebs how you build a consistent winning football team..

Carroll with subpar coaching staff has generated .500 and above seasons. while a QB has kept the cap hamstrung. And no my comment isnt a deflection, its a serious question who right now do you feel is better that could replace Pete. The last few years of Pete struggling, not really, its been the last few yrs of Pete letting him "cook" and russ flaming out to Pete reigns it in and goes on to PeteBall and produce wins.

"What we need in our offense is the same thing we've always needed whether it was Carson Palmer or Russell Wilson—we need a point guard," Carroll said last spring after the trade. "We need a guy that plays the game and moves the football around to the guys that are open and does all of the things that manages the game so that we can play great football. Because we're going to win with defense. We're going to win with how we play on special teams. We'll run the football to help the whole thing fit together. That's never changed. It's never been a philosophy that we needed to alter, other than to continue to grow and make it dynamic and present and current and all. And that's what we're looking for. We need to take care of the football."
 

pittpnthrs

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Carroll said last spring after the trade. "We need a guy that plays the game and moves the football around to the guys that are open and does all of the things that manages the game so that we can play great football. Because we're going to win with defense.

Well, Pete has his game managers now behind center. Lets see how well that works out for him.

Defense? Lol. The defense has been a joke for the past couple years. It'll be middle of the road at best again this season.
 

TeamoftheCentury

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Well, Pete has his game managers now behind center. Lets see how well that works out for him.

Defense? Lol. The defense has been a joke for the past couple years. It'll be middle of the road at best again this season.
I'd like to say something to you that probably gets me banned. You're not worth it.
 

Recon_Hawk

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Well, Pete has his game managers now behind center. Lets see how well that works out for him.

Defense? Lol. The defense has been a joke for the past couple years. It'll be middle of the road at best again this season.
I don't think there's many coaches that could come in and win with this roster. Whether that's indication of the coaches and front offices or a price you pay as a long-time great team that finally run out of ammo, that's reality.

This isn't a year anybody will come out looking great. Smith and Lock are not Pete's ideal type QB and they currently have $48M in dead cap space for 2022. 5th most in the NFL. They can't build team up around their QB if they wanted to. The smart move is to flush out the dead cap, play young guys and make a push over the next few years where a young QB or game manager could come in and win.

I'm not expecting much this year but I do expect Pete to do what he does and get lesser/younger players to play better than they probably should and that's really the goal this year.
 

toffee

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Exactly what has Pete Carroll done since our last Super Bowl appearance? For a guy that many around here bill as one of the best HC's in the NFL -- he sure has been getting lackluster results. We have a single playoff win in 5 years, we don't have a single quality playoff win since 2014. Since 2015 no team has lost more in the playoffs than Seattle has. Our team has slowly been slipping into irrelevancy. This is despite the fact that Seattle had some stacked teams -- especially in 2015.

Carroll has struggled to keep up with NFL trends and he's hired and kept subpar coaching talent. Ken Norton Jr.? Come on man. There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Carroll. The "well who would you hire that would be better?" line is nothing but deflection from the obvious that have been plaguing this franchise for awhile now.

Carroll is now one of the oldest coaches to ever coach the nfl at this point, and he's been struggling to get anything going for the last few years. The fandom of this team really likes to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like they don't see what is happening. We could see it in full force with Wilson "oh, Wilson wants to stay -- this is just the mediots trying to drum clicks". I saw those sentiments everywhere around here, guess what happened?

Carroll is a fading a star.
Would you still hold the same opinion if Carson and Penny didn't go down in 2019? We could and should go VERY DEEP into the playoff if we had our RBs.
 

toffee

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I think Pete's system works better in College and I still think like multiple players have said after leaving that he meddles in the offense and holds it back. But having said that, I do think his unique culture also allows QB's to play better early on and its good for guys who aren't elite and gives them a better chance to succeed. All of that sounds contradictory but its where I'm at. I have zero reason to doubt a Greg Olsen who said it was absolutely strange to see a coach treat an offense with a garage full of lambo's like he had a fleet of outbacks. Olsen loves Pete by the way so I don't think it was pettiness on his part. I guess we will find out this year which is what makes this debate fun.

I had the good fortune of asking coach Seifert if coach Walsh meddled in the defense. George Seifert was the head coach of 9ers when I popped that question, and Bill Walsh was having an office next to Stanford's AD in some sort of semi retirement. OK, Seifert hated to talk football with neighbors, but I didn't know that, so I asked. Seifert had that bemused expression and answered real short before moving on to other more neighborly topics. The answer: " He was the headcoach, it was his job". or something like that.

For the record, I wanted Pete gone, not for his meddling with offense etc., but how he was handled by Russell Wilson. In the relationship of Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson, the inmate certainly ran the asylum. Carroll allowed it , and that was behavior unbefitting of a head coach. That said, I expect 2022 to be one, if not the best Pete Carroll coaching, he is always good with young teams. This team is so underrated at this point, Pete will surprise all the media expert yet again.
 
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scutterhawk

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Like it or not, the Seahawks offense has been very hit or miss under Pete Carroll. He also has a habit of hiring and keeping subpar offensive coordinators/coaches such as Cable, Bevell, Bates and Schottenheimer -- though Schottenheimer wasn't so bad with us. I think it will be very telling how Wilson looks under a more offensive minded OC. Carroll is very much so a guy that likes to win his way -- as we can see in playoff games. Some of the talent utilization has been questionable as well. Forcing Jimmy Graham to play as an inline blocking TE was a head scratching decision. Somewhere down the line, Carroll had to OK that.

This Lock/Geno experiment is going to play out exactly like every other reclamation project that we have under Carroll. We seem to have a Dion Jordan figure hanging around every year, this year Lock and Geno are that.

This article is just a fluff piece, Carroll is not some QB mastermind or QB guru -- if anything he's hindered his offenses in the playoffs.
Yada, yada, yada, same old bu!!$#it Spin.
 
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