Pete, culture, and quarterbacks

[olyfan63]

I had the good fortune of asking coach Seifert if coach Walsh meddled in the defense. George Seifert was the head coach of 9ers when I popped that question, and Bill Walsh was having an office next to Stanford's AD in some sort of semi retirement. OK, Seifert hated to talk football with neighbors, but I didn't know that, so I asked. Seifert had that bemused expression and answered real short before moving on to other more neighborly topics. The answer: " He was the headcoach, it was his job". or something like that.

For the record, I wanted Pete gone, not for his meddling with offense etc., but how he was handled by Russell Wilson. In the relationship of Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson, the inmate certainly ran the asylum. Carroll allowed it , and that was behavior unbefitting of a head coach. That said, I expect 2022 to be one, if not the best Pete Carroll coaching, he is always good with young teams. This team is so underrated at this point, Pete will surprise all the media expert yet again.

What a great story, asking Seifert this question! Now if only you had asked him, "the media says you're a game manager coach, a system coach, just running coach Walsh's system. Is that true?" lol, bad question, after he punched you, you'd probably only get a brief, terse response and never get invited to another BBQ. "The media can write whatever they want, as long as they properly address me as "two-time Super Bowl Champion coach Seifert".

I share your optimism for this upcoming Hawks season. It may be a 2011 type season, a 7-9 thing with some fugly blowout losses and squeaker wins, but I just don't see the 3-14 debacle some here think we'll see. Sure, 9-8 could be the ceiling, but I think there will be a lot of close and exciting games and we will see a lot of young talent really start to shine.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Smith and Lock are not Pete's ideal type QB

What is exactly?

 

[Recon_Hawk]

What is exactly?

A game manager who is actually a good player.

It's John Stockton over Allen Iverson, to use Pete's point guard reference. Both great players, but one plays within the system and one IS the system. Pete just traded away the former.

 

[FrodosFinger]

Geeeeeennnnooooo!!!!!

 

[Ozzy]

I had the good fortune of asking coach Seifert if coach Walsh meddled in the defense. George Seifert was the head coach of 9ers when I popped that question, and Bill Walsh was having an office next to Stanford's AD in some sort of semi retirement. OK, Seifert hated to talk football with neighbors, but I didn't know that, so I asked. Seifert had that bemused expression and answered real short before moving on to other more neighborly topics. The answer: " He was the headcoach, it was his job". or something like that.

For the record, I wanted Pete gone, not for his meddling with offense etc., but how he was handled by Russell Wilson. In the relationship of Pete Carroll and Russell Wilson, the inmate certainly ran the asylum. Carroll allowed it , and that was behavior unbefitting of a head coach. That said, I expect 2022 to be one, if not the best Pete Carroll coaching, he is always good with young teams. This team is so underrated at this point, Pete will surprise all the media expert yet again.

I'm nervous about Pete this year but I hope you're right and it wouldn't shock me either. I was in the camp that thought losing Russ was a massive mistake but the emotions have settled and I'm excited to see what a new team and fresh start brings for everyone. It's going to be exciting again that's for sure.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The meddling angle continues to be absolute nonsense, peddled by people who clearly do not understand basic coaching dynamics.

What the hell do you think the head coach is responsible for? Nothing but game management?

Also, it seems a little bit of a dumb jump to bold text a coach talking about how important it is for a quarterback to spread the ball and hit the open guy, and use that to be like "Pete wants a GAME MANAGER!!!"

Who in their right mind would NOT want a quarterback to hit the open guy and spread the ball around?

That's not limited game manager stuff, it's basic fundamentals of the position!

Absolutely poisonous discourse

 

[Ozzy]

The meddling angle continues to be absolute nonsense, peddled by people who clearly do not understand basic coaching dynamics.

What the hell do you think the head coach is responsible for? Nothing but game management?

I don't know man I think its fair or at least interesting to wonder why multiple players who played in the system have no questioned why its different than other places they played. Also people change as they get older and its possible Pete as he enters his 70's thinks and approaches things a little differently than he did 15,10,5 years ago. We've also seen it play out multiple times in other places. A coach leaves or comes and the offense does much better or worse. I dont think it has anything to do with coaching dynamics and its specific to each situation. Maybe you're right and the ex-players and Russ are wrong but its just as possible those people are right and Pete at least later in his career wasn't approaching his offense the same way he did earlier.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I don't know man I think its fair or at least interesting to wonder why multiple players who played in the system have no questioned why its different than other places they played. Also people change as they get older and its possible Pete as he enters his 70's thinks and approaches things a little differently than he did 15,10,5 years ago. We've also seen it play out multiple times in other places. A coach leaves or comes and the offense does much better or worse. I dont think it has anything to do with coaching dynamics and its specific to each situation. Maybe you're right and the ex-players and Russ are wrong but its just as possible those people are right and Pete at least later in his career wasn't approaching his offense the same way he did earlier.

The ex-players who generally peddle this viewpoint all sucked and didn't last, like Marshall and Olsen.

I'm sure they don't remember their time here fondly, seeing as they were both awful husks of themselves by the time they got here and had to grapple with the powerless feeling of not being good enough to be in the league anymore.

There are several other players who did not suck here that continue to be firmly behind him, like Doug Baldwin, Sherm, KJ... I mean, come on. I trust them a little bit more, as they're Seahawk legends who actually did good for the franchise.

 

[Scout]

If the offense isn't sustaining drives early and gassing the defense the HC has the right to make calls on offense to help out the defense. So PC may become conservative as a result of lack of early 1st quarter results from the offense which puts the defense in a bind early. So it is not necessarily that PC has the offense open the game super conservative it is that the offense can't sustain drives early which may force PC into conservative mode in the 2nd quarter and 3rd quarter with the hope the team can pull it off in the 4th quarter comeback.

 

[Ozzy]

Well Baldwin was here years earlier and the other guys were on defense. I don't trust them more when it comes to the offense but speaking of KJ....He actually agreed with them on this point and said he thought Russ and Pete were both right in some ways. In his interview with Duggar he was very open to the idea while trying to be super respectful of Pete and Russ.

I also don't think how good a player was makes their argument better or worse. Olsen and Marshall both love Pete so I don't think its bitterness driving it. In fact both have said Pete is one of the best coaches they've been around......they just thought his approach to offense was a little odd. I tend to agree but we will see.

Edit to add: Both loved their time here, the culture Pete built and the whole experience as they have said numerous times.

 

[Aircrew]

We get it twisted, you hate/dislike Pete Carroll and want him gone, hence why anything posted involving PC has a response from you going full bore "WAS" and lobbying somehow for the dude to begone, yet you provide no alternatives of WHO could be a fore sure equal to better coach. Other times such at this you like to play it 50/50 i.e. He WAS good BUUUUUTT idk what poster said it, but they're right in calling you the .net Eeyore.. thought Blitzer was bad but damn you take the cake by a mile.

Boom.

 

[hawkfan68]

A game manager who is actually a good player.

It's John Stockton over Allen Iverson, to use Pete's point guard reference. Both great players, but one plays within the system and one IS the system. Pete just traded away the former.

Great analogy between Stockton and Iverson and Pete's ideal QB. This makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, there is a big question mark on if Smith or Lock can grow into the role. Thus far, they haven't shown (in their careers) they can. Moreso on Smith since he's been in the league for 10 years. Lock may still have some hope.

I'm not sold on the Seahawk QB coaching staff to develop players. Other than RW who else has developed under them? Hasselebeck didn't (but to his defense, he only played one year under Carrroll) and T-Jack/Whitehurst sure didn't.

 

[Ozzy]

Boom.

Meh I hate the argument of "who could we get that's better" Its a dumb argument. If Pete is coaching at 90 does it still apply? Way too many factors in play. Holmgren said he doesn't think anyone can or should stay more than 10 years because of stagnation and the messaging gets old. So its possible Pete is the best coach in the world and that Seattle might be better off moving another direction at this point. It could also be false...point is none of us really know. But I think its fair to be at least a little critical of the past 6-7 years with almost zero playoff success.

The Pete is a messiah is just as annoying as the Pete is trash crowd imo. The best part is everyone will get a chance to confirm priors this year or make excuses.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It doesn't make sense to pee on people's parades.

Nothing wrong with being blindly hopeful when that is all you got. I don't begrudge people that.

So don't begrudge me venting that we are stuck with him then, considering the impact he has on our success - both in roster and in strategy/tactics. (and even staff!)

I don't hate Pete. Anyone who has followed Pete since USC knows he is a good person. Sure, he probably does his share of moral balancing, and that weird version of nepotism that eventually affects his teams is greasy and gross. But few dispute he is a good person.

I make fun of him because he is old and has no business being an NFL head coach. Not because I dislike the guy. (I would have bet on Wilson instead 10 out of 10 but expect Wilson is FAR less likable.)

If you want to believe that Pete can put it together and be good at those things he hasn't been good at in some time? How can I argue? He WAS good at those things. Maybe he can do it again. But the #s say he is in a downward trend.

You have an article pointing out all the great things Pete did when Pete was great at those things. Some he is still good at (for example Dunlap would run through a wall for Pete). But what he did in college may not matter now, even though admittedly, if Lock has any upside at all, Pete is probably his best bet.

 

[toffee]

Not sure if Lock and Geno will turn into franchise QB or even legit NFL starter, but I do think these two will enjoy somewhat of a boost or renaissance to their careers this season. For a few reasons:

1. We have very good skill position players on offense, lots of speed, mostly veterans.
2. This is Waldron's prove it year.
3. Our OL improved towards the end of last season, most of those players are still with the Hawks. Charles Cross is replacing an aging Brown, and I have confidence in Cross.
4. Both Pete's offense philosophy and Shanahan-McVay's system runs the ball to make their QB's life easier. Balanced attack! Both JimmyG and Goff became superbowl QB with that approach.
5. Pete's rah rah has proven to boot QB confidence, the two QB in the league that really really need confidence boost? Lock and Geno.

Do I see Lock or Geno in pro-bowl this year? I sure hope so, as 12s, we all should hope so.

Don't believe me about Balanced attack? Think it's a Pete's antique roadshow?

9ers' 2019 super bowl team:
478 pass attempts - 498 rushing attempts.

 

[Ozzy]

Man I hope so! I'm rooting for those guys as hard as anyone.

 

[toffee]

Man I hope so! I'm rooting for those guys as hard as anyone.

I am a homer

 

[scutterhawk]

Exactly what has Pete Carroll done since our last Super Bowl appearance? For a guy that many around here bill as one of the best HC's in the NFL -- he sure has been getting lackluster results. We have a single playoff win in 5 years, we don't have a single quality playoff win since 2014. Since 2015 no team has lost more in the playoffs than Seattle has. Our team has slowly been slipping into irrelevancy. This is despite the fact that Seattle had some stacked teams -- especially in 2015.

Carroll has struggled to keep up with NFL trends and he's hired and kept subpar coaching talent. Ken Norton Jr.? Come on man. There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Carroll. The "well who would you hire that would be better?" line is nothing but deflection from the obvious that have been plaguing this franchise for awhile now.

Carroll is now one of the oldest coaches to ever coach the nfl at this point, and he's been struggling to get anything going for the last few years. The fandom of this team really likes to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like they don't see what is happening. We could see it in full force with Wilson "oh, Wilson wants to stay -- this is just the mediots trying to drum clicks". I saw those sentiments everywhere around here, guess what happened?

Carroll is a fading a star.

Pete's age has NOTHING to do with Coaching fundamentals, N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
You're one of those who does NOT have a viable replacement for Pete, and therefore, it's YOU who is using the 'Straw Man' argument to "DEFLECT" from answering >WHO< that is ACTUALLY available and WANTS the job.
Talk is CHEAP->Pete's record is actually BETTER than John Harbaugh's.
It's OBVIOUS that you either didn't read that article, or that you fancy yourself a lot smarter than Palmer & the hundreds of players that he has Coached over his career...TRUST ME...You are NOT.

 

[scutterhawk]

I don't know man I think its fair or at least interesting to wonder why multiple players who played in the system have no questioned why its different than other places they played. Also people change as they get older and its possible Pete as he enters his 70's thinks and approaches things a little differently than he did 15,10,5 years ago. We've also seen it play out multiple times in other places. A coach leaves or comes and the offense does much better or worse. I dont think it has anything to do with coaching dynamics and its specific to each situation. Maybe you're right and the ex-players and Russ are wrong but its just as possible those people are right and Pete at least later in his career wasn't approaching his offense the same way he did earlier.

I think it goes without saying, Russell Wilson is a DIFFERENT kind/style of Quarterback, & Coaching for his tendencies to consistently leave the pocket & take off on a scramble, voided a lot of what Pete could do for him (clean Pocket) Etc., there were MANY TIMES that he took off running when he really didn't have to, he didn't take the many, many layups that were there for the taking.
'I can't help you if you won't let me'

 

[sc85sis]

Dont play 'Pete Ball' with your comments. Let it rip.

You're making a lot of assumptions about the D and the offense before even seeing so much as a practice, let alone a preseason game or an actual game. Maybe they'll suck. Maybe they won't. But we literally have NO way of knowing at this point.

And when you assume, you...