Pete Carroll on the Brink

[OrangeGravy]

In my view the people who think Carroll is wasting talent continue to significantly overestimate the talent on our roster since 2016.

First, draft capital is by far the biggest determinant in talent level and the NFL constantly balances itself by awarding good teams much less of it. In my view, we haven't done a good enough job maximizing comp picks to try to correct for this, and we have traded away too much draft capital. However, both of these errors are caused by the team trying to win now and being comparatively successful at it.

Second, it doesn't really matter how great your individual stars are if you are paying them fairly. The fixed salary cap means that all teams have a level playing ground. It's completely besides the point to argue that teams can just kick cap hits down the road when every team has those same opportunities and what matters is the relative talent ranking between teams. The only way to get high value players is to get some sort of discount - through rookie contracts, or taking chances on unproven players, or getting players to sign team friendly extensions.

In a way, I respect the argument to fire Carroll much more if the argument is that it will cause the team to suck for a couple of years and build up a ton of draft capital, and then we can attractive another great coach to take advantage of all that draft capital for another Super Bowl run or two.

The Rams were the worst team in the NFL in 2015, the Cardinals were the worst team in the NFL in 2018 and the 49ers were atrocious in 2016, 2018 and 2020. They all received enormous draft capital as a result that is fueling their current programs.

If you can't be happy with a team that is consistently good to great, and would rather take a flier on a team that could be legendary like the 2013 squad then tanking is probably the better strategy for you. However, I doubt many season ticket holders who would be going to all of those bad games agree with you. I don't think it's a coincidence that there is a minority of vocal online fans who want to blow everything up while the fans I talk to at games are much more reasonable.

Excellent post

 

[pittpnthrs]

How does a coach that never changes evaluate himself regularly?

How can you say that Carroll never changes?

LTH

Because i've watched them through the past 6 years. Same scheme and philosophy, same poor coaching, same awful drafting and FA acquisitions, same patterns and trends over and over.

What changes have you been seeing?

I don't see poor coaching , I don't know why he should change a scheme that he believes in and has been so successful with I don't see awful FA acquisitions consistently who? Dunlap, Reed, Neil ,adams Jackson, shell , Collins? As far as the draft they do very well considering where they pick. If they are so terrible drafting , picking FA ,than why are they so successful?

I have seen changes as far as Carroll letting go of control with the O coordinator and letting Russ have more control in play calling... I have seen chaqnges in Carroll letting Norton make calls like going with Neil in the dime package. I think Carroll is delegating more than he ever has to my knowledge..

Edit: excuse the edits I have a tablet that Im getting used to...

LTH

Of course you dont the coaching irks because your blind to it. The scheme needs changed because it botches the team that doesnt have the personnel to run it. Its the reason the team cant win a playoff game now.

FA acquisitions -
Dunlap - yeah he's good
Reed - what has he done
Neil - what has he done
Adams - Carroll gave up the farm for him and set the team back years. He hasent played nearly well enough for what he was given.
(and those guys are the make up for the worst defense in the league. Great isnt it?)

Jackson - an upgrade for sure
Shell - slightly better than Ifedi

Collins - the guy Pete let go once already and barely uses him now since resigning him although he's the best RB on the team

Then theres the others that didnt work out - Lets start from 2014-
OL Stephen Schilling - who?
DL Ahtyba Rubin - was average
CB Cary Williams - so bad he's become a legend in Seahawk lore
OL J’Marcus Webb - who?
OL Bradley Sowell - oh boy
etc,,,, too tired to keep going but it hasent been good. (Graham, Richardson, Clowney, Harvin, etc,,)

Umm they are successful regardless of all that because of #3. Its not hard to figure that out.

 

[Fade]

I don't see poor coaching , I don't know why he should change a scheme that he believes in and has been so successful with.

Let me help you out.

- 32nd ranked defense in the league, with multiple probowlers and all-pros is poor coaching.

- Failing to disguise coverages on 92% of the snaps (a league high), and the direct opposite of what the best defenses in the NFL are doing is poor coaching.

- Failing to develop day 1 & day 2 draft picks (The bulk of where starting players come from.) Poor coaching.

- The defense hasn't been top 10 in over half a decade (an eternity in the NFL.) There will be some down years sure, it happens. But the Norton/Carroll combo has been an abject failure. The same problems keep cropping up under them season after season. Giving them more time isn't bearing any fruit, and if anything it seems to be getting worse. Poor coaching.

- The Coach admitted a couple of games ago that they are still trying to figure out how to use Jamal Adams. Poor coaching.

- Loaded up on a bunch of runstuffers at all levels of the defense, can't stop the run. Poor coaching.

- Ken Norton had a trend of not getting interceptions as the DC down in Oakland, and it has infected the Seahawks. Poor Coaching.

- New players both rookies and vets play their best when first inserted into the lineup and then begin to regress over time. Poor coaching.

- Ryan Neal, get him on the field more. Poor Coaching. Playing bad players (Flowers), while sitting good players (Neal). Poor coaching.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeDugar/status/1445525351556284426[/tweet]

They've squeezed all of the juice they can out of this turnip, it's just been diminishing returns for YEARS. Without a HoF QB carrying dead bodies over the finish line, they would be one of the worst teams in the NFL, due to how poorly coached on defense they are.

That isn't even getting into the personnel & management mistakes, like paying a QB's ransom for a box safety, or keeping Ken Norton as the DC. Just strictly looking at coaching here.

 

[Jville]

There is also the view that Pete and company are on the Brink of another winning season.

 

[LudwigsDrummer]

Or you could just worry about yourself and stop worrying what other people think? It's no secret that this team looks average, undisciplined, and horribly coached. I'll never give up hope, waste of time. But I'm realistic to what I'm seeing in front of me as well. They have a LOT of work to do. And who said all is well??? It isn't. But this team certainly can turn it around, regardless what you think.

Or I can have an opinion like everybody else on this board. Just like the poster I replied to that doesnt seem to think change is needed for some reason.

Its great that your one of the most optimistic posters on here, but if your truly being realistic, how do you think they can turn it around when the same issues have been evident for years now and only getting worse? Seriously, what are your expectations when the team has a zero involved ownership, a coach that is behind the times and is rapidly getting worse, a horrific defense, and a division that they play in that has greatly improved while Seattle hasent and in all probability, has actually gotten worse? Just curious how you can envision them turning things around.

As for what I think,,,,,i've thought that this team has been doomed even if they make it the post season for the last 5 years due to the coach and thats been the case spot on. I dont see that pattern changing. How could I or anyone for that matter? How do people still have faith that Pete Carroll can change at this juncture of his career? Baffles me.

Explain your information that says we have zero involved ownership?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Or you could just worry about yourself and stop worrying what other people think? It's no secret that this team looks average, undisciplined, and horribly coached. I'll never give up hope, waste of time. But I'm realistic to what I'm seeing in front of me as well. They have a LOT of work to do. And who said all is well??? It isn't. But this team certainly can turn it around, regardless what you think.

Or I can have an opinion like everybody else on this board. Just like the poster I replied to that doesnt seem to think change is needed for some reason.

Its great that your one of the most optimistic posters on here, but if your truly being realistic, how do you think they can turn it around when the same issues have been evident for years now and only getting worse? Seriously, what are your expectations when the team has a zero involved ownership, a coach that is behind the times and is rapidly getting worse, a horrific defense, and a division that they play in that has greatly improved while Seattle hasent and in all probability, has actually gotten worse? Just curious how you can envision them turning things around.

As for what I think,,,,,i've thought that this team has been doomed even if they make it the post season for the last 5 years due to the coach and thats been the case spot on. I dont see that pattern changing. How could I or anyone for that matter? How do people still have faith that Pete Carroll can change at this juncture of his career? Baffles me.

Explain your information that says we have zero involved ownership?

How many times does it need to be pointed out? When you give the head coach ultimate power and arent heard of since, thats an ownership thats not involved. Jody and Vulcan havent made a football decision since she got the team.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

How can you say that Carroll never changes?

LTH

Because i've watched them through the past 6 years. Same scheme and philosophy, same poor coaching, same awful drafting and FA acquisitions, same patterns and trends over and over.

What changes have you been seeing?

I don't see poor coaching , I don't know why he should change a scheme that he believes in and has been so successful with I don't see awful FA acquisitions consistently who? Dunlap, Reed, Neil ,adams Jackson, shell , Collins? As far as the draft they do very well considering where they pick. If they are so terrible drafting , picking FA ,than why are they so successful?

I have seen changes as far as Carroll letting go of control with the O coordinator and letting Russ have more control in play calling... I have seen chaqnges in Carroll letting Norton make calls like going with Neil in the dime package. I think Carroll is delegating more than he ever has to my knowledge..

Edit: excuse the edits I have a tablet that Im getting used to...

LTH

Of course you dont the coaching irks because your blind to it. The scheme needs changed because it botches the team that doesnt have the personnel to run it. Its the reason the team cant win a playoff game now.

FA acquisitions -
Dunlap - yeah he's good
Reed - what has he done
Neil - what has he done
Adams - Carroll gave up the farm for him and set the team back years. He hasent played nearly well enough for what he was given.
(and those guys are the make up for the worst defense in the league. Great isnt it?)

Jackson - an upgrade for sur
Shell - slightly better than Ifedi

Collins - the guy Pete let go once already and barely uses him now since resigning him although he's the best RB on the team

Then theres the others that didnt work out - Lets start from 2014-
OL Stephen Schilling - who?
DL Ahtyba Rubin - was average
CB Cary Williams - so bad he's become a legend in Seahawk lore
OL J’Marcus Webb - who?
OL Bradley Sowell - oh boy
etc,,,, too tired to keep going but it hasent been good. (Graham, Richardson, Clowney, Harvin, etc,,)

Umm they are successful regardless of all that because of #3. Its not hard to figure that out.

Ok I will play…
Dunlap- desperate need and got him for peanuts
Reed- big need, 62 tackles 2 int, solid play
Neal- game winning int, solid play when Adams went down, solid Sunday
Adams- record setting year with no preseason+ injuries
Jackson- pro-bowl guard, played 99/100 games in his career, solid signing at a position of need
Collins- drafted by Seahawks, 2nd string getting his chance after being released by Baltimore, solid 5th rd pick and FA signing.
Graham- all time Hawks TE TD leader, was have a fantastic season until major injury,
Richardson- desperate need, acquired for a receiver most people here thought stunk and a 2nd. Not a great return but was a solid attempt to shore up huge weakness.
Clowney- absolutely stole him from Houston, minimal impact but was a huge boost at the time.
Harvin- total headcase, like him or not he help win the SB

The key to FA signings is that the player actually want to come here. Just because they are available doesn’t mean they can get them to sign.
Can you point to one team that hits on more signings than they miss, doubt it.
From 2017-2020 the hawks along with the Pats,Chargers,Rams,Cards and Chiefs had the best ROIi. *overthecap.com
Really getting old seeing you post that everyone but yourself is “blind” to the truth.

Avril,Bennett,Coleman,Diggs,Brown,Kendricks,Everett,Mayowa,McDougle all very solid signings.
And then add 4 locks for the ROH 1 lock for the HOF QB and 2 WR’s that are rewriting the Hawks record books and I would say the front office has had performed as well as any team in the bottom half of the draft.

Just one mans blind opinion

Oh and you have no f’n clue what input Jody has given.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Because i've watched them through the past 6 years. Same scheme and philosophy, same poor coaching, same awful drafting and FA acquisitions, same patterns and trends over and over.

What changes have you been seeing?

I don't see poor coaching , I don't know why he should change a scheme that he believes in and has been so successful with I don't see awful FA acquisitions consistently who? Dunlap, Reed, Neil ,adams Jackson, shell , Collins? As far as the draft they do very well considering where they pick. If they are so terrible drafting , picking FA ,than why are they so successful?

I have seen changes as far as Carroll letting go of control with the O coordinator and letting Russ have more control in play calling... I have seen chaqnges in Carroll letting Norton make calls like going with Neil in the dime package. I think Carroll is delegating more than he ever has to my knowledge..

Edit: excuse the edits I have a tablet that Im getting used to...

LTH

Of course you dont the coaching irks because your blind to it. The scheme needs changed because it botches the team that doesnt have the personnel to run it. Its the reason the team cant win a playoff game now.

FA acquisitions -
Dunlap - yeah he's good
Reed - what has he done
Neil - what has he done
Adams - Carroll gave up the farm for him and set the team back years. He hasent played nearly well enough for what he was given.
(and those guys are the make up for the worst defense in the league. Great isnt it?)

Jackson - an upgrade for sur
Shell - slightly better than Ifedi

Collins - the guy Pete let go once already and barely uses him now since resigning him although he's the best RB on the team

Then theres the others that didnt work out - Lets start from 2014-
OL Stephen Schilling - who?
DL Ahtyba Rubin - was average
CB Cary Williams - so bad he's become a legend in Seahawk lore
OL J’Marcus Webb - who?
OL Bradley Sowell - oh boy
etc,,,, too tired to keep going but it hasent been good. (Graham, Richardson, Clowney, Harvin, etc,,)

Umm they are successful regardless of all that because of #3. Its not hard to figure that out.

Ok I will play…
Dunlap- desperate need and got him for peanuts
Reed- big need, 62 tackles 2 int, solid play
Neal- game winning int, solid play when Adams went down, solid Sunday
Adams- record setting year with no preseason+ injuries
Jackson- pro-bowl guard, played 99/100 games in his career, solid signing at a position of need
Collins- drafted by Seahawks, 2nd string getting his chance after being released by Baltimore, solid 5th rd pick and FA signing.
Graham- all time Hawks TE TD leader, was have a fantastic season until major injury,
Richardson- desperate need, acquired for a receiver most people here thought stunk and a 2nd. Not a great return but was a solid attempt to shore up huge weakness.
Clowney- absolutely stole him from Houston, minimal impact but was a huge boost at the time.
Harvin- total headcase, like him or not he help win the SB

The key to FA signings is that the player actually want to come here. Just because they are available doesn’t mean they can get them to sign.
Can you point to one team that hits on more signings than they miss, doubt it.
From 2017-2020 the hawks along with the Pats,Chargers,Rams,Cards and Chiefs had the best ROIi. *overthecap.com
Really getting old seeing you post that everyone but yourself is “blind” to the truth.

Avril,Bennett,Coleman,Diggs,Brown,Kendricks,Everett,Mayowa,McDougle all very solid signings.
And then add 4 locks for the ROH 1 lock for the HOF QB and 2 WR’s that are rewriting the Hawks record books and I would say the front office has had performed as well as any team in the bottom half of the draft.

Just one mans blind opinion

Oh and you have no f’n clue what input Jody has given.

You make Dunlap, Reed, Neil, and the grossly overpaid Adams sound good, but in reality they are the makeup of the worst defense in the league. Always looks better on paper doesnt it?

Collins - It took releasing him and him exceling with another team before Carroll finally realized he could play. He's only getting carries now because Carson is banged up as usual. Sadly, Penny would be getting his carries if he was available because Pete needs to prove his draft pick to everybody although Collins is twice the player. Thats Pete Carroll though, putting his ego before the team.

Graham - was never used right here and a wasted signing. The fact that his one 10 TD season is a Seahawks record just shows how pathetic the TE position has been utilized in the history of the organization. Graham had a very low bar to reach.

Clowney - had one good game against the 49ers and that was it for Seattle. Not what I would consider lighting the world on fire.

Harvin - your actually trying to defend him?

Players arent lining up to play in Seattle anymore as evident by Sherman and Gordon signing for greener pastures. Players are starting to see the writing on the wall as well as the fans now.

I'm sure I can find other teams that have a better FA success rate and use their signings more effectively, and i'll do that at work tonight when I have more time.

Nobody has a clue as to any input Jody Allen has had because she hasent had any. If she was being active in any football decisions, we would hear about it, but we dont because she promoted Carroll to babysit the organization for her for the next 5 years.

 

[LTH]

How can you say that Carroll never changes?

LTH

Because i've watched them through the past 6 years. Same scheme and philosophy, same poor coaching, same awful drafting and FA acquisitions, same patterns and trends over and over.

What changes have you been seeing?

I don't see poor coaching , I don't know why he should change a scheme that he believes in and has been so successful with I don't see awful FA acquisitions consistently who? Dunlap, Reed, Neil ,adams Jackson, shell , Collins? As far as the draft they do very well considering where they pick. If they are so terrible drafting , picking FA ,than why are they so successful?

I have seen changes as far as Carroll letting go of control with the O coordinator and letting Russ have more control in play calling... I have seen chaqnges in Carroll letting Norton make calls like going with Neil in the dime package. I think Carroll is delegating more than he ever has to my knowledge..

Edit: excuse the edits I have a tablet that Im getting used to...

LTH

Of course you dont the coaching irks because your blind to it. The scheme needs changed because it botches the team that doesnt have the personnel to run it. Its the reason the team cant win a playoff game now.

FA acquisitions -
Dunlap - yeah he's good
Reed - what has he done
Neil - what has he done
Adams - Carroll gave up the farm for him and set the team back years. He hasent played nearly well enough for what he was given.
(and those guys are the make up for the worst defense in the league. Great isnt it?)

Jackson - an upgrade for sure
Shell - slightly better than Ifedi

Collins - the guy Pete let go once already and barely uses him now since resigning him although he's the best RB on the team

Then theres the others that didnt work out - Lets start from 2014-
OL Stephen Schilling - who?
DL Ahtyba Rubin - was average
CB Cary Williams - so bad he's become a legend in Seahawk lore
OL J’Marcus Webb - who?
OL Bradley Sowell - oh boy
etc,,,, too tired to keep going but it hasen't been good. (Graham, Richardson, Clowney, Harvin, etc,,)

Umm they are successful regardless of all that because of #3. Its not hard to figure that out.

Yeah but the problem with what your saying is every other team has the same list...some work out some don't its all about competition and some of those players

What has Neil done Id say he is a solid player that did a really good job vs the Niners and Kittle. what has Reed done I'd say he shored up his side on corner. Shell was a good pick up and Adams although they did give up a lot is a great safety.. none of these guys are bust players not one of them. what about Taylor , what about DK... Clowney did his job he helped this team if this team would have signed him nobody would have complained... Graham was a bust, Harvin helped this team win a SB with an 87 yard kick off return.. so yeah you can nick pick and say these guys are not probowl players but its the average player that does his job well that makes teams great as well as the stars...


LTH

 

[LTH]

Or you could just worry about yourself and stop worrying what other people think? It's no secret that this team looks average, undisciplined, and horribly coached. I'll never give up hope, waste of time. But I'm realistic to what I'm seeing in front of me as well. They have a LOT of work to do. And who said all is well??? It isn't. But this team certainly can turn it around, regardless what you think.

Or I can have an opinion like everybody else on this board. Just like the poster I replied to that doesnt seem to think change is needed for some reason.

Its great that your one of the most optimistic posters on here, but if your truly being realistic, how do you think they can turn it around when the same issues have been evident for years now and only getting worse? Seriously, what are your expectations when the team has a zero involved ownership, a coach that is behind the times and is rapidly getting worse, a horrific defense, and a division that they play in that has greatly improved while Seattle hasent and in all probability, has actually gotten worse? Just curious how you can envision them turning things around.

As for what I think,,,,,i've thought that this team has been doomed even if they make it the post season for the last 5 years due to the coach and thats been the case spot on. I dont see that pattern changing. How could I or anyone for that matter? How do people still have faith that Pete Carroll can change at this juncture of his career? Baffles me.

Explain your information that says we have zero involved ownership?

How many times does it need to be pointed out? When you give the head coach ultimate power and arent heard of since, thats an ownership thats not involved. Jody and Vulcan havent made a football decision since she got the team.

JA is not a football guru... The best thing she can do is have good people around her.. How you can look at Carrolls record and say since he was given ultimate control and say he hasn't been heard of since? I, going to buy you some glasses because you are blind... with the exception of Reed and Bilicheck Carroll has the best record among active coaches...

Just like last year when you said the D was the worst in NFL history they turned it around and were good enough to win the division over the Rams they were not the worst in NFL history they were a very competitive defense that ranked umong the best in the second half of the season... You just dont get it... Its really easy to sit back and nit pick and second guess but if you really understood whats going on and understood Carrolls process then you might have a different view...

Look I understand Loses can be emotionally hard... they are for everybody but its what makes the wins that much more special...

If you went to the detroit Lions and told them we will give you a coach who will make you competitive for the SB every year for 11-12 years do you think they would turn that down? I doubt it...


LTH

 

[pittpnthrs]

Or I can have an opinion like everybody else on this board. Just like the poster I replied to that doesnt seem to think change is needed for some reason.

Its great that your one of the most optimistic posters on here, but if your truly being realistic, how do you think they can turn it around when the same issues have been evident for years now and only getting worse? Seriously, what are your expectations when the team has a zero involved ownership, a coach that is behind the times and is rapidly getting worse, a horrific defense, and a division that they play in that has greatly improved while Seattle hasent and in all probability, has actually gotten worse? Just curious how you can envision them turning things around.

As for what I think,,,,,i've thought that this team has been doomed even if they make it the post season for the last 5 years due to the coach and thats been the case spot on. I dont see that pattern changing. How could I or anyone for that matter? How do people still have faith that Pete Carroll can change at this juncture of his career? Baffles me.

Explain your information that says we have zero involved ownership?

How many times does it need to be pointed out? When you give the head coach ultimate power and arent heard of since, thats an ownership thats not involved. Jody and Vulcan havent made a football decision since she got the team.

JA is not a football guru... The best thing she can do is have good people around her.. How you can look at Carrolls record and say since he was given ultimate control and say he hasn't been heard of since? I, going to buy you some glasses because you are blind... with the exception of Reed and Bilicheck Carroll has the best record among active coaches...

Just like last year when you said the D was the worst in NFL history they turned it around and were good enough to win the division over the Rams they were not the worst in NFL history they were a very competitive defense that ranked umong the best in the second half of the season... You just dont get it... Its really easy to sit back and nit pick and second guess but if you really understood whats going on and understood Carrolls process then you might have a different view...

Look I understand Loses can be emotionally hard... they are for everybody but its what makes the wins that much more special...

If you went to the detroit Lions and told them we will give you a coach who will make you competitive for the SB every year for 11-12 years do you think they would turn that down? I doubt it...


LTH

No Jody Allen is not a football guru so are we supposed to christen her a good owner because she delegated her responsibilities to others? Thats my point. When the big decisions need to be made, its not the owner thats making them rather its the head coach. Thats not an ideal situation.

The defense was historically bad until Pete addressed the pass rush issue midway through the season instead of addressing it at the beginning when he should have. Also, the defense only started to look better when they started to play their stretch of cream puff opponents with back up and average QBs. Again, how many teams above .500 did Seattle beat last season? Watching that unfold was an easy assessment of how good the team really was, but the rose colored glasses wearing fans got caught up with those wins and thought they were actual contenders for some reason. Happens all the time around here it seems. By the way, how is the defense doing this season?

If I was the Detroit Lions, sure I would want a coach that would make the team competitive for a Super Bowl for 11 to 12 years. Pete Carroll certainly isnt that coach. Heck, the Seahawks havent been competitive for a Super Bowl for 6 years now. They cant even get out of the second round and this season will be more of the same.

 

[Flyingsquad23]

So you want a Jerry Jone or Daniel Snyder type owner who meddles in everything and still loses, got it. I’m starting to think you feel this way because a woman is in charge. I personally will take a media silent owner every time.

Defense sucks, seasons over, no chance and our owner won’t even hold pressers to tell us all the bigly decisions she makes everyday….

 

[LTH]

Explain your information that says we have zero involved ownership?

How many times does it need to be pointed out? When you give the head coach ultimate power and arent heard of since, thats an ownership thats not involved. Jody and Vulcan havent made a football decision since she got the team.

JA is not a football guru... The best thing she can do is have good people around her.. How you can look at Carrolls record and say since he was given ultimate control and say he hasn't been heard of since? I, going to buy you some glasses because you are blind... with the exception of Reed and Bilicheck Carroll has the best record among active coaches...

Just like last year when you said the D was the worst in NFL history they turned it around and were good enough to win the division over the Rams they were not the worst in NFL history they were a very competitive defense that ranked umong the best in the second half of the season... You just dont get it... Its really easy to sit back and nit pick and second guess but if you really understood whats going on and understood Carrolls process then you might have a different view...

Look I understand Loses can be emotionally hard... they are for everybody but its what makes the wins that much more special...

If you went to the detroit Lions and told them we will give you a coach who will make you competitive for the SB every year for 11-12 years do you think they would turn that down? I doubt it...


LTH

No Jody Allen is not a football guru so are we supposed to christen her a good owner because she delegated her responsibilities to others? Thats my point. When the big decisions need to be made, its not the owner thats making them rather its the head coach. Thats not an ideal situation.

The defense was historically bad until Pete addressed the pass rush issue midway through the season instead of addressing it at the beginning when he should have. Also, the defense only started to look better when they started to play their stretch of cream puff opponents with back up and average QBs. Again, how many teams above .500 did Seattle beat last season? Watching that unfold was an easy assessment of how good the team really was, but the rose colored glasses wearing fans got caught up with those wins and thought they were actual contenders for some reason. Happens all the time around here it seems. By the way, how is the defense doing this season?

You said,"
No Jody Allen is not a football guru so are we supposed to christen her a good owner because she delegated her responsibilities to others? Thats my point. When the big decisions need to be made, its not the owner thats making them rather its the head coach. Thats not an ideal situation.

Yes a good manager should delegate to others especially when "others" might know more than the manager or in this case the owner... Ive done that several times in my career it doesn't make you a bad manager it just makes you smart. .its not the owners job to make personal decisions or football decisions owners make decisions like resigning PC what makes you think JA makes any decision by her self she has many people around her helping its not all Pete Carroll..

You said,

"The defense was historically bad until Pete addressed the pass rush issue midway through the season instead of addressing it at the beginning when he should have.

Things don't always go as planned so that's why there is a process. Maybe they thought they were going to get a FA and it didn't happen. Maybe they thought DT was going to be ready we don't exactly know what happened.. but to say they didn't address the pass rush is making an assumption with out all the facts something this board is really good at. The bottom line is they made the personal changes that were necessary and they won the division title and the D was way better than worst in NFL history... you were wrong...pure and simple

You said"
If I was the Detroit Lions, sure I would want a coach that would make the team competitive for a Super Bowl for 11 to 12 years. Pete Carroll certainly isnt that coach. years now. They cant even get out of the second round and this season will be more of the same.

What is your definition of competing for the SB they made the playoffs for 5-6 of those years isn't the playoffs competing for the SB? again your wrong...


LTH

 

[JustTheTip]

So you want a Jerry Jone or Daniel Snyder type owner who meddles in everything and still loses, got it. I’m starting to think you feel this way because a woman is in charge. I personally will take a media silent owner every time.

Defense sucks, seasons over, no chance and our owner won’t even hold pressers to tell us all the bigly decisions she makes everyday….

No, but an owner who is at least a little concerned about the football side of things would be nice. I could be wrong, but the optics are that this is just an investment holding for Jody.

 

[pittpnthrs]

So you want a Jerry Jone or Daniel Snyder type owner who meddles in everything and still loses, got it. I’m starting to think you feel this way because a woman is in charge. I personally will take a media silent owner every time.

Defense sucks, seasons over, no chance and our owner won’t even hold pressers to tell us all the bigly decisions she makes everyday….

How about somebody in the middle. An owner that at least shows some interest in the team and isnt afraid to trump the coach when things arent going right and changes need to be made. I would take that over complete absence.

 

[Fade]

There is also the view that Pete and company are on the Brink of another winning season.

Inspite of Pete's inability to build and coach a defense, yes. Russell Wilson is going to have to carry Pete on his back another season, that will end with another playoff dud, thanks Pete.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SONTSeattle/status/1445614279026114564[/tweet]

Cowherd chimes in:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ECSN206/status/1445811880946114575[/tweet]

 

[LTH]

There is also the view that Pete and company are on the Brink of another winning season.

Inspite of Pete's inability to build and coach a defense, yes. Russell Wilson is going to have to carry Pete on his back another season, that will end with another playoff dud, thanks Pete.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SONTSeattle/status/1445614279026114564[/tweet]

Cowherd chimes in:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ECSN206/status/1445811880946114575[/tweet]

Your really down on Carroll for the D but you must admit you liked the off season additions to the D...you had no problems with what they did on the D line... I'm at a loss that you don't have the patience to let the coaching staff work out what's going on at corner and let the O get comfortable with the new O. When this happens its going to help the D... they just need to work through some stuff... Corner is going to work its self out you will see..


LTH

 

[chris98251]

Paul was not a football guru either, he was a entrepreneur, he just wanted to understand the operation process, he hired Gurus to run the aspects of the team and then report to him and had a process for decision elevation such as big contracts hiring Coaches and Gm's as well as Football operations in business aspect executives.

How is this any Different then Jody, Vulcan was involved with Paul as they are with Jody in team management.

 

[LTH]

Paul was not a football guru either, he was a entrepreneur, he just wanted to understand the operation process, he hired Gurus to run the aspects of the team and then report to him and had a process for decision elevation such as big contracts hiring Coaches and Gm's as well as Football operations in business aspect executives.

How is this any Different then Jody, Vulcan was involved with Paul as they are with Jody in team management.

Its not any different


LTH

 

[pittpnthrs]

How many times does it need to be pointed out? When you give the head coach ultimate power and arent heard of since, thats an ownership thats not involved. Jody and Vulcan havent made a football decision since she got the team.

JA is not a football guru... The best thing she can do is have good people around her.. How you can look at Carrolls record and say since he was given ultimate control and say he hasn't been heard of since? I, going to buy you some glasses because you are blind... with the exception of Reed and Bilicheck Carroll has the best record among active coaches...

Just like last year when you said the D was the worst in NFL history they turned it around and were good enough to win the division over the Rams they were not the worst in NFL history they were a very competitive defense that ranked umong the best in the second half of the season... You just dont get it... Its really easy to sit back and nit pick and second guess but if you really understood whats going on and understood Carrolls process then you might have a different view...

Look I understand Loses can be emotionally hard... they are for everybody but its what makes the wins that much more special...

If you went to the detroit Lions and told them we will give you a coach who will make you competitive for the SB every year for 11-12 years do you think they would turn that down? I doubt it...


LTH

No Jody Allen is not a football guru so are we supposed to christen her a good owner because she delegated her responsibilities to others? Thats my point. When the big decisions need to be made, its not the owner thats making them rather its the head coach. Thats not an ideal situation.

The defense was historically bad until Pete addressed the pass rush issue midway through the season instead of addressing it at the beginning when he should have. Also, the defense only started to look better when they started to play their stretch of cream puff opponents with back up and average QBs. Again, how many teams above .500 did Seattle beat last season? Watching that unfold was an easy assessment of how good the team really was, but the rose colored glasses wearing fans got caught up with those wins and thought they were actual contenders for some reason. Happens all the time around here it seems. By the way, how is the defense doing this season?

You said,"
No Jody Allen is not a football guru so are we supposed to christen her a good owner because she delegated her responsibilities to others? Thats my point. When the big decisions need to be made, its not the owner thats making them rather its the head coach. Thats not an ideal situation.

Yes a good manager should delegate to others especially when "others" might know more than the manager or in this case the owner... Ive done that several times in my career it doesn't make you a bad manager it just makes you smart. .its not the owners job to make personal decisions or football decisions owners make decisions like resigning PC what makes you think JA makes any decision by her self she has many people around her helping its not all Pete Carroll..

You said,

"The defense was historically bad until Pete addressed the pass rush issue midway through the season instead of addressing it at the beginning when he should have.

Things don't always go as planned so that's why there is a process. Maybe they thought they were going to get a FA and it didn't happen. Maybe they thought DT was going to be ready we don't exactly know what happened.. but to say they didn't address the pass rush is making an assumption with out all the facts something this board is really good at. The bottom line is they made the personal changes that were necessary and they won the division title and the D was way better than worst in NFL history... you were wrong...pure and simple

You said"
If I was the Detroit Lions, sure I would want a coach that would make the team competitive for a Super Bowl for 11 to 12 years. Pete Carroll certainly isnt that coach. years now. They cant even get out of the second round and this season will be more of the same.

What is your definition of competing for the SB they made the playoffs for 5-6 of those years isn't the playoffs competing for the SB? again your wrong...


LTH

When the owner (or manager in your case) delegates ultimate power to somebody else, then they probably dont have any business being in that position to start with. They should at least have the insight or vision in what direction their team should be headed in. JA took over the team as a favor to her brother and only sees things in black and red. I'd rather have an owner that knows a QB from a hole in the ground and holds the coach and front office accountable when needed. As of right now, Pete Carroll is the owner of the Seahawks even if his name isnt on the door.

The defense last year? Come on. Its Pete wanting and signing that big, shiny luxury pick in Adams that was the biggest issue. They didnt need a safety, they needed pass rushers. Pete thought rushing Adams would make up for the crap pass rush and it didnt. He had to get Dunlap midway through because he had no other choice at that point. They improved due to the weak schedule and they dug themselves out of the history books but they still werent good. Here we are into the 2nd season with Adams and a supposedly improved group and they are still the worst defense in the NFL. No, I wasnt wrong.

Is making the playoffs and getting bounced in the early rounds actually competing for SBs? Competing for a SB is fielding a team that has a legit chance of getting there once they make the post season. Seattle hasent been one of those teams since 2014. Seattle has been first round, maybe 2nd round, fodder for years now. The Seahawks are the team that the other NFC teams want to play in the playoffs. The biggest misconception on this board is that if a team makes it to the post season, they are automatically legit contenders and thats just not true. Yes, it happened to the Giants once, but that was a fairytale season that is so unlikely to happen again that people shouldnt even acknowledge it. The issue here is that your understanding of the word contenders is misconstrued when talking about the Seahawks and being legit threats for the SB. Just because they make the post season, that doesnt mean they are contenders once there. Again, not wrong.