LJ Collier

[jammerhawk]

Lots of hand wringing going on here.

For obvious reasons of health Collier missed a lot of time early and still must not be outplaying the rivals for starting time. Sure he was a first round pick but the guys ahead of him are truly not just chopped liver. I suspect this will be a redshirt season more or less for Collier who may have the lights come on for him soon. It'd be timely indeed for him to start to come on and show what he can do.

At this point many here need to recognize that his health troubles might have been worse than he expected or we know and we have not seen what this young player can do yet. It's very early and the step up in competition from college to the pro game is a big step and the Olinemen he is playing against are all better than most he played against in college. Learning how to pass rush as a pro DE has a steep learning curve, and getting your body right to do it is different than anything he's probably experienced before. I still have faith the team pick a good player in Collier but it'd be nice to see some evidence of him starting to come on. We need to be patient.

 

[Largent80]

Unless you are a top 10 pick in the draft at DE, it's simply going to take time to develop. Take a look at Bennett, we let him go, he went to TB and "got it". Collier has hardly even played this year.

 

[Rat]

Players selected in the late first round require some patience, so I'm in no shape or form calling Collier a bust, but I don't care what our coach and GM say, they had to have been expecting more than THIS. To his credit, he didn't get into the mix until late at TCU, but he's also old for a rookie (24). I'm not sure what the learning curve was expected to be. I suspect he'll get on track after an offseason with the program.

I might be overthinking this, but it makes me wonder, what the heck was the plan for our pass rush if the Yexans hadn't badly botched the Clowney situation making him available to us late in the offseason? They even had a deal in place with another team, but he basically forced his way here. With what else we had at the time, did it make sense to bring in an older DE with the thought of it being more or less a redshirt year? Makes me think he was expected to be at least something more of a contributor at time. On that same note, Clowney may have saved our season. Imagine how tough things would be for the defense with essentially no pass rush.

 

[jammerhawk]

I agree totally and have been unimpressed with the pass rush save and except for a few guys who are not awful (Jefferson and Green). Clowney to me is an all around very solid DE who is a good but not special pass rusher, without him here this season things would have been bleak indeed, but just are not great even now.

With 4 sacks the team sack leader is sophomore DE - Rasheem Green, and the Seahawks have the league's worst pass rush. For a few like Ansah and Reed the team needs to see more, starting soon.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Players selected in the late first round require some patience, so I'm in no shape or form calling Collier a bust, but I don't care what our coach and GM say, they had to have been expecting more than THIS. To his credit, he didn't get into the mix until late at TCU, but he's also old for a rookie (24). I'm not sure what the learning curve was expected to be. I suspect he'll get on track after an offseason with the program.

I might be overthinking this, but it makes me wonder, what the heck was the plan for our pass rush if the Yexans hadn't badly botched the Clowney situation making him available to us late in the offseason? They even had a deal in place with another team, but he basically forced his way here. With what else we had at the time, did it make sense to bring in an older DE with the thought of it being more or less a redshirt year? Makes me think he was expected to be at least something more of a contributor at time. On that same note, Clowney may have saved our season. Imagine how tough things would be for the defense with essentially no pass rush.

Clowney's health is a concern. He's already said publicly he's seeking surgery in the offseason for a core injury that he's currently trying to play through. He hasn't been the same since SF, and teams like that are whom you face in the playoffs.

Looking at the depth chart at LDE (https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/n ... e-seahawks), it looks like Collier was the original plan with <insert veteran name> as a bridge starter. And next year, we'll have a choice between a recovering and more expensive Clowney, or hoping for a trade/FA that saves our butts, with really no proven insurance at the No. 2 spot again.

 

[Largent80]

If you weren't concerned about the pass rush even before the Clark trade then you weren't paying attention or were hoping Reed would continue his pace from last year. Both of those things didn't happen. Rookie DE's rarely make impacts, what are you expecting?

The guy has also been inactive for multiple games getting zero experience. He is what he is, basically a 2nd rounder with very little camp/preseason/regular season game time.

 

[Rat]

Unless you are a top 10 pick in the draft at DE, it's simply going to take time to develop. Take a look at Bennett, we let him go, he went to TB and "got it". Collier has hardly even played this year.

Investing a first round pick on a player is much, much different than signing one as a UDFA. I don't think anyone would be concerned about Collier's progress if he was a rookie that we hadn't even drafted, like the player you're using as an example. Expectations are a lot different.

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Seattle Seahawks rookie defensive end L.J. Collier, the team’s first-round pick in 2019, played a career-high 37 snaps on Sunday against the Carolina Panthers.

While he did not record a single tackle, pressure, or quarterback hit, coach Pete Carroll felt it was the best performance of Collier’s career to date.

“I thought he was really active,” Carroll said on Monday. “He played a lot of plays. I think he played 40 plays or something like that. It was really a good outing for him. He was physical and played tough. We didn’t get to the quarterback with him, but that’s his best game by far of contributing. He’s just going to stay in the mix now. He’s really part of it.”

Depending on one’s optimism level, this quote can be viewed as a positive sign regarding the rookie’s progress this season (progress that was stunted by an ankle injury suffered in training camp) or a negative sign — that the team’s first-round pick had his best game of the season and didn’t even record a single meaningful statistic.

The answer likely lies somewhere in the middle. Collier’s growth this season has not happened particularly quickly, especially for one of the oldest rookies in the draft, and for him to barely have a role on a defensive line that has struggled for good chunks of the year is definitely discouraging.

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2019/ ... llier/amp/

 

[Largent80]

Unless you are a top 10 pick in the draft at DE, it's simply going to take time to develop. Take a look at Bennett, we let him go, he went to TB and "got it". Collier has hardly even played this year.

Investing a first round pick on a player is much, much different than signing one as a UDFA. I don't think anyone would be concerned about Collier's progress if he was a rookie that we hadn't even drafted, like the player you're using as an example. Expectations are a lot different.

Bennett failed here and was let go. He went to TB and figured it out, So?......Colliers draft spot was basically 2nd round. same as Greens. Green is now "getting it" in his 2nd year and with more playing time.

 

[MrThortan]

Didn't realize this guy was making that much money. Something is wrong with the sport if he is making more than Carson.

I'm not too critical with rookies, even if they are taken in the first round. Not only is it a big transition from college to the NFL, its also a big life transition for a 21-22 year old man. Something that is hard to measure is work ethic and a strong football mind. Whether or not LJ has both of those, I have no idea.

 

[Largent80]

Green was 20 when he was drafted. Look at him now. He is blossoming in his 2nd year, even after a bunch of injuries last year. I guess my point is give Collier a chance to get going.

 

[Rat]

Unless you are a top 10 pick in the draft at DE, it's simply going to take time to develop. Take a look at Bennett, we let him go, he went to TB and "got it". Collier has hardly even played this year.

Investing a first round pick on a player is much, much different than signing one as a UDFA. I don't think anyone would be concerned about Collier's progress if he was a rookie that we hadn't even drafted, like the player you're using as an example. Expectations are a lot different.

Bennett failed here and was let go. He went to TB and figured it out, So?......Colliers draft spot was basically 2nd round. same as Greens. Green is now "getting it" in his 2nd year and with more playing time.

How was Bennett a "failure"? He was a UDFA. We had nothing invested in him. Also, he was fantastic in that first preseason. Cutting him was seen as a huge mistake.

Also, I'm stupid. I could have sworn Green had another year on his resume. This stuff is starting to blend togetherfor me as I get older.

 

[Largent80]

LOL, get defensive much?....If Bennett was such a "mistake" why did the FO let him go?..He wasn't cutting it is the answer. He used that "chip" to get to the next level and they brought him back. Then he became complacent and a pain in the ass and buy bye, now we have Collier and this pick is from the same FO that has given us a playoff team 8 out of 10 years?

Collier will get better. You know it, but need to argue about it or have some sort of last word. Whatever, do what you do.

I'll just trust this FO and my team to do the talking.

 

[Rat]

LOL, get defensive much?....If Bennett was such a "mistake" why did the FO let him go?..He wasn't cutting it is the answer. He used that "chip" to get to the next level and they brought him back. Then he became complacent and a pain in the ass and buy bye, now we have Collier and this pick is from the same FO that has given us a playoff team 8 out of 10 years?

Collier will get better. You know it, but need to argue about it or have some sort of last word. Whatever, do what you do.

I'll just trust this FO and my team to do the talking.

Attempting to refute a point is "defensive much"? You're the one who sounds sensitive. Are you not refuting a point? Defensive much?

I said several times that I believe Collier will get better. Your example was just lousy. If Collier was doing this as a UDFA, he'd be long gone from at least the active roster. A bigger investment changes things dramatically.

 

[Largent80]

Blah. Collier will be a stud. Case CLOSED. Hope you get cheese for Christmas, without the trap.

 

[Rat]

Blah. Collier will be a stud. Case CLOSED. Hope you get cheese for Christmas, without the trap.

I hope you're right on that first point. Regardless of where he is on the curve so far, it's obvious why the front likes him so much.

As for that last sentence, I have no clue what that even means, but come on, let's not make this personal. If my tone came off as more combatative than I intended, I apologize. I wasn't trying to insult you, I just didn't think a comparison you made was apt and I wanted you to explain it further. I say plenty of stuff on here people disagree with. Heck, twice in this thread alone, I've had to quickly go back and delete things that I realized after I hit submit were flat out wrong (I messed up Green's draft year, and something else I'm too embarrassed to admit). If I was wrong on our discussion, it wouldn't be the first time.

We've both been around here a long time. We've seen ridiculously great and ridiculously bad seasons, and if anyone wants to try saying either of us isn't a real fan, they're wrong. I also remember you being there for me and giving me some excellent advice during a very, very difficult time in my life. I've always had a great deal of respect for you. Anyways, just saying, it's easy to get caught up in the discussion sometimes, but there's no hard feelings.

 

[Chukarhawk]

missing nearly all of training camp as a rookie makes it really hard to catch up. Not sure what people are expecting given that kind of handicap.

 

[Hawkstorian]

Rasheem Green was a 1st round talent who basically red-shirted last year and has played really well this year. For any rookie you have to wait until year 2 to make any judgements.

Even Penny -- he was finally showing why he was a #1 pick it just sucks he got hurt.

 

[chris98251]

Pete has a history of easing guys into positions, they learn to be pros, get a NFL body for their positions and then find their slot in the group for what they do best.

Other then Wilson very few of our guys has started, oh Thomas is another but he had growing pains also.

Okung another but he had glass ankles almost from the start and was getting a lot of coaching and help as he healed up most that first year.

 

[olyfan63]

Oh man, that rings a bell, Okung having those glass ankles and being out with injury so much those first few years.

I had no idea Collier played 37 snaps vs. Carolina. Don't recall hearing his name at all, and he had no stats.
If Pete found his play encouraging, I'll go with that. Sack Kyler Murray a couple times, LJ, and all is forgiven.

When was the last time the Seahawks drafted an impact DL who balled out his first season? Oh yeah, Green. Of course, Green. As in Jacob Green, #79, out of Texas A&M or someplace like that. Ring of Honor. Our DE of the 80's.

Besides that, I'm having a hard time thinking of one. I'm sure there's a couple I am just not thinking of. Meantime, Poona Ford had a solid rookie season last year.