KJR reports rumor of trade proposal

scutterhawk

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Well it's perty obvious to me y'all, that both Pete Carroll & John Schneider are being so secretive, that NEITHER of them know what the other is thinkin' & doin'.. C'mon Draft Day!!
 

Mistashoesta

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If he pans out as the next Mahomes, I'm all for it and it's totally worth it.

If the kid is a bust, fire Schneider and this whole clown front office for wasting one of the biggest golden opportunities in franchise history.
That's a bit of an overreaction wouldn't you say?
 

fenderbender123

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"hey, we promise to trade you Geno Smith after the draft so that we don't get the cap hit, if you give us your higher pick"

Problem solved

(Yes, I'm doing to die on this hill. I don't care)
 

Ozzy

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I still don't understand how any of this matters during a sale of a team.

The Commanders are going to sell for 5 billion+, that means Jody could sell for even more.

A rookie QB contract has absolutely NO bearing on any of this. If you're looking at things that will destabilize and devalue the organization for a sale? Pete gone. John gone. Volatility of internal processes and the people who run the team.

Those things matter. Who's playing QB or who got drafted a year before a sale of a 5-6B NFL franchise? Nope. Not important at all.
I see what you're saying. Yeah I would agree there I don't think it matters a ton either.
 

AROS

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I would be SHOCKED if they moved up to take Richardson. He will be there at 5, and maybe at 20. Obviously I could be wrong but I think he will be a bust. At least in terms of how high some are on him due to his dazzling athleticism translating to franchise QB. I'm not falling for it. If I turn out to be wrong, I'm wrong, but my Bust-O-Meter is trending high.

PLEASE FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY AND GOOD PICK DEFENSE!!!
 

CactusJack

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I don't think Pete and John view Geno as a bridge QB.

I think they view Geno as a QB that can play the position at a high enough level for the next 2-3 years while they're rebuilding the defense and run game/O-line into where it needs to be to compete for Superbowls.

Therefore using this level of draft capital that doesn't directly address the defensive needs (and there are many) doesn't make sense to me.

I think fans love Richardson, and the idea of drafting him far more than our coach and GM do.
2-3 years= Bridge

They would have given Geno a longer term deal with more money, if they truly thought he was the guy long term. They gave themselves a clear out.

Geno is Alex Smith.
 

nanomoz

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How does this all = we need to take Richardson at 5?

I didn't say we need to. I'm saying it looks like they've positioned themselves to be able to take a QB (that they can essentially redshirt for a year). When they traded Russell, I have no doubt that there was an eye fixed on this QB class. They didn't expect Geno to be as succesful as he was. If they did, they would have inked him to more than a one-year contract.

The only guarantee Geno has beyond 2023 is an injury guarantee. That's it. There is zero guaranteed salary in 2024 or 2025. Zero. And Pete and John have also been very clear with Geno and Lock that drafting a QB is on the table.

I think we should draft a QB, personally. A 33-year-old Geno Smith with one great half-a-season under his belt is not reason enough to pass on a QB draft like this--not when it coincides with the highest draft pick in the Pete/John tenure.

The position is too important, the potential payoff too great. Levis and Richardson aren't perfect, but they have a skillset and physical profile that is very hard to find and get--especially when you typically pick in the back half of the round. They have superstar potential.

They have a lot of draft capital. Getting a QB, even if they trade up a bit, doesn't preclude drafting someone like Mazi Smith and a badass 5 technique.
 

Sgt. Largent

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2-3 years= Bridge

They would have given Geno a longer term deal with more money, if they truly thought he was the guy long term. They gave themselves a clear out.

Geno is Alex Smith.

IMO the 2-3 years is because they want to see a longer period of success than one season, not because they don't see him as the long term QB.

All I said is I'd be shocked if we draft a QB at 5, Richardson or not.

Sounds like you wouldn't be shocked.
 

Sgt. Largent

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I didn't say we need to. I'm saying it looks like they've positioned themselves to be able to take a QB (that they can essentially redshirt for a year). When they traded Russell, I have no doubt that there was an eye fixed on this QB class. They didn't expect Geno to be as succesful as he was. If they did, they would have inked him to more than a one-year contract.

The only guarantee Geno has beyond 2023 is an injury guarantee. That's it. There is zero guaranteed salary in 2024 or 2025. Zero. And Pete and John have also been very clear with Geno and Lock that drafting a QB is on the table.

I think we should draft a QB, personally. A 33-year-old Geno Smith with one great half-a-season under his belt is not reason enough to pass on a QB draft like this--not when it coincides with the highest draft pick in the Pete/John tenure.

The position is too important, the potential payoff too great. Levis and Richardson aren't perfect, but they have a skillset and physical profile that is very hard to find and get--especially when you typically pick in the back half of the round. They have superstar potential.

They have a lot of draft capital. Getting a QB, even if they trade up a bit, doesn't preclude drafting someone like Mazi Smith and a badass 5 technique.

If you're right, and I'm not saying you're not then I think they'd target a QB like Hooker that they could get more value from at 20, or later and not have to use the most important pick they've ever had on a developmental QB that may or may not work out.

That's all I'm saying.

Pete and John have both bragged about how good their system and organization is at developing quarterbacks, so why would they think they HAVE to get their guy at 5, and not at 20 or later if they know they can develop as well as they think they can?
 

CactusJack

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IMO the 2-3 years is because they want to see a longer period of success than one season, not because they don't see him as the long term QB.

All I said is I'd be shocked if we draft a QB at 5, Richardson or not.

Sounds like you wouldn't be shocked.
Not at all. Every indication from them so far is that they are seriously considering taking a QB.

There's just too much smoke.

Maybe they decide to take a defensive player. But to just completely ignore the possibility of it, I think is nuts.

The same crowd probably thought that Russ wouldn't be traded in a million years. Despite all the smoke prior to the trade occurring. Well, guess what...
 

Sgt. Largent

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Not at all. Every indication from them so far is that they are seriously considering taking a QB.

There's just too much smoke.

Maybe they decide to take a defensive player. But to just completely ignore the possibility of it, I think is nuts.

The same crowd probably thought that Russ wouldn't be traded. Despite all the smoke prior to the trade occurring. Well, guess what...


I guess that's where we part ways, the smoke part.

IMO the smoke is 100% to give the illusion that we're interested in these QB's in order to create some urgency for teams wanting to trade up into the #5 spot that don't have a QB.

That's it, and from you believing all this means it's working well.
 

rjdriver

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Of all the top QBs in the league last year, I can really only think of Burrow as a guy who was a top 3 pick. The others went to teams that didn't get desperate and played things well - Mahomes at #10, Allen at #7, Hurts at #53, Hebert at #6, etc.

I know we are on page 3 of this thread, but I can't stop thinking about this post.

I'm (mostly) a numbers guy and this is pretty poignant.

The argument most (including myself) have made vis a vis Richardson is that we rarely have a top 5 pick with which to select a franchise QB, so we can't waste unprecedented draft capital. That, in essence, you need top 10% draft capital to find a franchise QBOTF.

However, thinking statistically, the data may lean toward not needing top 10 percent draft capital to find that guy at all.

On the other end, you could just as easily argue that the best statistical way to actually WASTE top 10% draft capital is taking (and especially trading up for) a top tier QB. Are your odds better of getting a Joe Burrow or a Zach Wilson? When a QB busts, they BUST!!! When a top 10% positional player busts, they usually give you average to slightly above average performance for a few years.

Either way, I think a statistically greater amount of alcohol will be required to watch this draft.
 
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TheLegendOfBoom

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Although, Richardson’s talent is very tempting. And if he grows into a top tier QB, of course hindsight will have us kicking ourselves and badmouthing the FO for passing on him but either way, picking top 5, and if you do make a decision, that player HAS to pan out, regardless of who it is.

The impact of a defensive line player has to be an elite player or maybe very good for a long time to us to determine the pick was a good pick.

The franchise will always benefit more from an elite QB than elite defensive player.

If Seattle doesn’t see any defensive players as being capable of being elite, I think Seattle will pass and draft their QB if that QB is there.

Schneider loves QBs and I wouldn’t be surprised if he convinces Carroll that this QB is the guy.
 

bsuhawk

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There seems to be this notion that AR can sit behind Geno for a year and then magically become a quality starting QB in the NFL. I strongly disagree with this. As raw as he is, I think he is at least two years away from seeing significant playing time. Once he does start playing he is going to suck for at least two more years. So you are talking about taking a player at #5 who is four or five years away from positively impacting your team. This is a significant opportunity cost when compared to taking the best available defensive player who should start contributing in year one. This opportunity cost is even higher if you trade multiple picks to move to #3 to take AR.
 

kidhawk

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My opinion on the specific trade as mentioned (our first pick in the first and second round for the #3 pick) I just don't like it. Richardson is just not NFL ready. I do like him though. I think he has a chance at having a lot of success and I think our team is a good fit for him, because he needs to come in and learn how to play at the NFL level. I just believe that we need to use #5 to get someone who starts day one whether we draft at 5 or trade back.
 

CactusJack

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Although, Richardson’s talent is very tempting. And if he grows into a top tier QB, of course hindsight will have us kicking ourselves and badmouthing the FO for passing on him but either way, picking top 5, and if you do make a decision, that player HAS to pan out, regardless of who it is.

The impact of a defensive line player has to be an elite player or maybe very good for a long time to us to determine the pick was a good pick.

The franchise will always benefit more from an elite QB than elite defensive player.

If Seattle doesn’t see any defensive players as being capable of being elite, I think Seattle will pass and draft their QB if that QB is there.

Schneider loves QBs and I wouldn’t be surprised if he convinces Carroll that this QB is the guy.
There's only one elite level defender at the top of the draft without major character issues & serious red flags attached.

If you like Richardson & believe he has a very high ceiling, then it makes sense.

QB is also the one position that is judged by traits & projection. Most are not finished products before they get to the league. Josh Allen had the traits, but he wasn't anywhere near his current ceiling at the time.
 

nwHawk

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I don't think Pete and John view Geno as a bridge QB. …

I think fans love Richardson, and the idea of drafting him far more than our coach and GM do.
I do think they see Geno as a bridge, but that AR will need to sit for a year and work on his footwork and accuracy. Get that dialed in slow the mental game for him and give AR a real chance to succeed. That’s the way to do it.

I think JS must be head over heels thinking about drafting AR. A potential Jordan (slight chance) if the mental side and footwork develop.
 

TheLegendOfBoom

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There seems to be this notion that AR can sit behind Geno for a year and then magically become a quality starting QB in the NFL. I strongly disagree with this. As raw as he is, I think he is at least two years away from seeing significant playing time. Once he does start playing he is going to suck for at least two more years. So you are talking about taking a player at #5 who is four or five years away from positively impacting your team. This is a significant opportunity cost when compared to taking the best available defensive player who should start contributing in year one. This opportunity cost is even higher if you trade multiple picks to move to #3 to take AR.
Would you say how AR has performed at Florida has been a lack of quality coaching or the kid isn’t talented enough to post great numbers?

That’s the conundrum.

That’s what the Seattle brass has to decide.

Playing in the right environment is paramount for reaching a players full potential.

Carroll has gone on record to say a player can take a while before they fully understand and can play very well.

There’s no hiding, Seattle, is interested in the pure athletic gifts and physical stature of AR as they should be.

The difference is Seattle has a front office that fully believes they can harness a players entire potential which is why they have consistently and historically brought in players that has these “red flags” about them. That’s no secret.

Lynch, Harvin, Graham, Adams, Geno, etc. Seattle isn’t afraid to do the outside thinking and Carroll views himself the coach that can employ a player to transcend what they have been and be better. Of course, it doesn’t always work out, but having some faith in a player can mentally push that player to being better than they have been elsewhere.

A strong and positive environment equipped with a pedigree such as Carroll’s as a players coach can have a profound impact on a players psyche and elevate them to another level. A great example of this is Geno.

Smith has said he may have been out of the league if it wasn’t for Seattle.

Admit it, who here thought, Smith, would be a good QB for Seattle. That was all Carroll. And Smith’s ceiling is definitely not as high as Richardson’s is.

We know Carroll’s offense is simple, control the clock with an effective run game and throw deep often. Richardson’s physical gifts can thrive with this approach especially under the tutelage of Carroll.

If Richardson didn’t post great numbers at Florida, imagine what he can do when Carroll puts a system around him that Richardson believes in and is great with?

That’s why I believe Seattle differs from other organizations, Carroll, always believes he can bring out the best in a player and if that player is Anthony Richardson and AR becomes that guy, man, the league would be in serious trouble.

But this is all speculation, we shall see!

This draft is so exciting and fun!

We don’t know what to expect!
 
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James in PA

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Friggin Jalen Carter had to go make this all complicated. Now there's only 1 elite defensive guy (sans character concerns) that's worthy of a top 5 pick.
 
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