Is Russell Wilson worth extending?

[theincrediblesok]

Peyton Manning on his 18th (17 Playing years) year in the NFL, only one Superbowl win. Wilson on his 3rd year, with one Superbowl win. If Wilson doesn't get another one, I won't even be mad, but if he gives us a chance to reach that goal every year then I would take it.

 

[SeaChase]

For some reason, there is a group of people who just LOVE to find fault in RW. It's like they just can't accept that he's one of the best in football. Even being short and not black enough :stirthepot:

I've been part of this group since day one. Every game I get irritated with Wilson. He holds the ball way too long and doesn't see down field very well. He doesn't have very good pocket presence or very good accuracy. Is he worth resigning? Yeah for sure. He's young and has a lot of potential but at the moment I wouldn't claim that he's one of the best.

 

[theincrediblesok]

I don't know man but 62.8% on passing is pretty accurate to me. He had 3 bad games this year, and only 1 of them cost us a lost. We haven't been able to go deep that much because of the play-calling and separation. Sidney was our deep threat and we don't have that right now. I'm hoping Richardson becomes that guy. I'm pretty sure he throws it a tad bit higher than usual to make sure only his guy can catch it's been mention several times during games, just that Raiders game he overthrew a bit higher than normal. He will get that fix.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Spin doctor's post above gives him away as pure troll.

E X A C T L Y !!!!
This is without equal, the dumbest post I've read in, in, in, hell, since I don't know when.

I'm still not seeing anybody address my issues I have with Wilson, they are legitimate. Instead people are calling me a 'stupid troll'. I can assure you that I'm not trolling. In my mind in order for a player to justify such a hefty salary, they need to prove they can carry an offense on their back. Can Wilson do that for a prolonged period of time? It's a legitimate question, because Wilson may need to do that if he signed to a massive contract.

It's because your issues with Wilson are nitpicks. PFM can't run for shit, and has a wimp arm. He compensates by being extra good at quick passing. Every QB has issues. Roethlisberger doesn't use the middle of the field much either, and holds the ball too long. Aaron Rodgers holds the ball too long and just plain sucks at coming from behind in the 4th quarter. They have issues too. Tom Brady has a history of folding when the pressure is constant. An issue. Probably you need to examine how you define "carrying an offense on his back". I expect your definition is narrow.

The simple reality is that in 4 or 5 years, there will be at lest ten or so QBs, if not far more, in the range of 15-20 mil. It is just the way the league is trending. In the years where those big salaries were outliers, yes, they handicapped teams to an extent. As they become the new norm, they will just be part of the landscape of succeeding in the NFL.

Here is the even bigger question: If Russ is to be let go, because he can't carry an offense on his back, whatever that means, what is your alternative plan?

Outline your plan, I am all ears.

My nitpick with Russell Wilson are far more than nitpicks, they're passing fundamentals that he is sorely lacking. Most NFL offenses are predicated upon timing, and progressing through your reads. Peyton Manning might not be able to run, but you know what? Who cares. Running and mobility is one of the least important attributes in a QB. You know why he is able to do that? Because he is a master at manipulating the pocket, and he gets the ball out of his hand lightning quick. Peyton Manning is also able to diagnose what the defense is trying to do to him and he adjust accordingly.

I have not seen those attributes in Wilson, and they are very important factors when running a high octane offense. The audible game is important, its just not there for Wilson, and he seems to not be able to recognize the blitz very well. He definitely is a major culprit in Seattle's offensive line play. In fact no other QB held onto the ball for longer than Wilson last season. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -to-throw/
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... -sack-rate

Not only that but Seattle is almost dead last in pass attempts since Pete Carroll has been the head coach. The true star of the 2013 season was not Wilson, but the team around him. We had one of the best defenses of all time which is talked about in the same light as the 85 Bears, and a decent set of weapons surrounding Wilson. This would not be possible if Wilson was paid a high salary. Wilson was just another cog in the wheel on that 2013 squad.

Let's face it, we will never have a defense like we had in 2013. Our offense is going to have to pick up some of that slack, especially with the amount of resources we're going to be allocating to Wilson. Can Wilson handle that extra responsibility and drive us down the field on a consistent basis? I don't think he can. In lieu of that I do not think such a player is worth 100+ million dollars. The role he is in is perfect for him, but anything more and he folds.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I don't know man but 62.8% on passing is pretty accurate to me. He had 3 bad games this year, and only 1 of them cost us a lost. We haven't been able to go deep that much because of the play-calling and separation. Sidney was our deep threat and we don't have that right now. I'm hoping Richardson becomes that guy. I'm pretty sure he throws it a tad bit higher than usual to make sure only his guy can catch it's been mention several times during games, just that Raiders game he overthrew a bit higher than normal. He will get that fix.

Russell Wilson's accuracy has always been hit or miss, he is a bit like Donavon McNabb in this respect. He'll thread the needle one play, then he'll throw an awful pass nobody can catch the next. Overall I'm not too worried about that aspect of his game.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

We would if Pete would actually stop being so conservative. The guy is incredibly risk adverse and it needs to stop and will when they pay Wilson the money whether he likes it or not. Get your quarterback an OL that has a clue about pass blocking and a big receiver or at least a healthy possession receiver (Norwood) and it will change.

 

[Spin Doctor]

We would if Pete would actually stop being so conservative. The guy is incredibly risk adverse and it needs to stop and will when they pay Wilson the money whether he likes it or not. Get your quarterback an OL that has a clue about pass blocking and a big receiver or at least a healthy possession receiver (Norwood) and it will change.

As I said earlier, Wilson is a huge contributor to the Seahawks pass blocking woes, generally this is the case for more mobile QBs. Seattle's line is bad, but as bad as they are Wilson makes them look much worse. No other QB holds onto the ball as long as Wilson does. How fast the QB gets the ball out holds an undeniable correlation with sack totals.

Just look at Manning, it's no accident that he has had a top 10 pass blocking line almost every year he has been in the league, even with his all-pro starting left tackle out in 2013

 

[-The Glove-]

We would if Pete would actually stop being so conservative. The guy is incredibly risk adverse and it needs to stop and will when they pay Wilson the money whether he likes it or not. Get your quarterback an OL that has a clue about pass blocking and a big receiver or at least a healthy possession receiver (Norwood) and it will change.

As I said earlier, Wilson is a huge contributor to the Seahawks pass blocking woes, generally this is the case for more mobile QBs. Seattle's line is bad, but as bad as they are Wilson makes them look much worse. No other QB holds onto the ball as long as Wilson does. How fast the QB gets the ball out holds an undeniable correlation with sack totals.

Lol Wilson makes them look worse? Guess what happens when a QB is facing heavy pressure almost immediately every play? He has to scramble which forces him to hold onto the ball longer

 

[chris98251]

Been thinking about this a bit, remember Oakland, how many QB's did they go through, how many were killed by lack of pass protection, they ran the ball but the passing game sucked for a long time, draft picks on the O line in high rounds didn't matter, Tui was the only one there that looked even close to decent till he got hurt and was never the same, a running QB. I am wondering if our scheme and lack of attention to pass blocking at all is a part of the issue. Remember we brought Gallery here to help teach it, he was the can't miss Tackle that missed and was a Guard in Oakland.

 

[theincrediblesok]

You also have to factor in play action passes, and also his mobility, he's able to scramble around in that pocket to make some throws so that might actually inflate those stats.

 

[HawkWow]

The problem with the OP is the lack of offering an alternative.

Don't extend him, and do what?

Once you get a legit franchise qb that you know first hand is good enough to win a Super Bowl with, you don't let him go. Period. Doubt this was even a topic amongst Colts fans when Luck went 60.1 and 59.4 QB ratings in back to back weeks last season. Good players face adversity from time to time, no need to overreact.

Andrew Luck played with a mediocre O-Line, yes he did have a decent set of receivers in Wayne, and Hilton but he also had no line. It is fair to say that he faced adversity since day one, and yes he definitely had his fair share of growing pains but through it all you could see that he was going to be a great NFL Quarterback. He was, afterall his offenses only sort of production.

In Wilson's case I do not know where he stands. I see him not seeing far too many open receivers, yes this happens to every QB but it is noticeably more so with Wilson. I'm not talking about just THIS year, I'm talking about his entire body of work. A lot of that is his tendency to bail from the pocket far too soon. By doing that Wilson is effectively cutting the field in half. Even when he did have a pocket to stand back in he still had the tendency to run out of it and then make the throw. When you see guys like Brady, and Peyton Manning they set up their passing lanes, and blockers within the pocket and then make the throw. By doing this you're seeing the whole field rather than just one half of it and you're not giving defenders a chance to react.

My second gripe about Wilson is going to piggy-back off of my first. He has no pocket management skills. He never steps up in the pocket even when his line is playing good. He does not know how to set up his blockers like Manning and Brady do, and he has always held onto the ball for way longer than he should. Wilson in fact led the league last season in average time before he got rid of the ball. Though to his credit Bevell's schemes might have something to do with that. Basically what I'm trying to say is his pocket presence really could use a lot of work.

My last gripe is one that is directed more towards Bevell. Since Bevell has been the offensive coordinator I have not seen any sort of timing passes. You know, the 3 step drop and throw it to where your guy is going to be throws. The ones that modern NFL offenses thrive off of. Even with TJ that element has remained conspicuously missing from the Seahawks playbook. I would like to see Russell Wilson and Derek Bevell try to utilize these passes. Where are our slants, back shoulder fades, inside post, where is are passing game in the middle of the field period? Is this a function of Bevell's offense or is Russell just not good at utilizing the middle of the field?

Actually I lied I do have one last gripe, where is all of our audibling? I never see Russell change protection, I never see him change the play even when there are unfavorable match-ups. This is a skill-set that every elite QB must possess, and even a skillset most good QB's utilize. Where is it with Russell? Is it a function of Pete Carroll's philosophy or is it a function of Bevell's offense, or is Wilson just not good at audibling?

Wilson is a good player, don't get me wrong, but I don't know if he will ever transcend what he has been with the Seahawks thus far. I also do not like his penchant for disappearing completely during long stretches like he did in 2013. I feel like this offense should've been much more than it has been, especially in 2013. We had one of the best slot receivers in the league in Doug Baldwin, a top five receiver this year in Golden Tate, and a Zach Miller that is still a viable security blanket for Russell Wilson. We, of course also had one of the better running games in the NFL headed by the beast.

I have said all of the above for quite some time, Spin Doc, and I admire your willingness to express your thoughts independent of the rah rah group thinkers. I can see you know football and that makes me think you are more instigating conversation than actually thinking we should (or could) let Wilson bolt.

I see the same weakness' in Russ, but I just can't imagine not re-signing him. For every weakness, there's 10 positives with the kid. I've made myself clear on who I would draft (if possible) to replace him, but moving up to get that player would be impossible (3 1's?) for us and there's no more than a handful of QBs in the game I'd take over Russ. With that, definitely pay the man...but as always, how much?

I don't buy into the "blank check" thing. That's madness. Russ runs the ball a hella lot and I wouldn't want to break the bank on a running QB. He's tough and smart, but more than 1 tough and smart player's career ended on a single hit. I'd be stoked to keep him at 17 mil per on a 5 year deal. That would leave him enough time to get another big deal after that....but my gut tells me we give him an even 100.

 

[Spin Doctor]

You also have to factor in play action passes, and also his mobility, he's able to scramble around in that pocket to make some throws so that might actually inflate those stats.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... -sack-rate

This article expands on sack rates.

 

[Scottemojo]

E X A C T L Y !!!!
This is without equal, the dumbest post I've read in, in, in, hell, since I don't know when.

I'm still not seeing anybody address my issues I have with Wilson, they are legitimate. Instead people are calling me a 'stupid troll'. I can assure you that I'm not trolling. In my mind in order for a player to justify such a hefty salary, they need to prove they can carry an offense on their back. Can Wilson do that for a prolonged period of time? It's a legitimate question, because Wilson may need to do that if he signed to a massive contract.

It's because your issues with Wilson are nitpicks. PFM can't run for shit, and has a wimp arm. He compensates by being extra good at quick passing. Every QB has issues. Roethlisberger doesn't use the middle of the field much either, and holds the ball too long. Aaron Rodgers holds the ball too long and just plain sucks at coming from behind in the 4th quarter. They have issues too. Tom Brady has a history of folding when the pressure is constant. An issue. Probably you need to examine how you define "carrying an offense on his back". I expect your definition is narrow.

The simple reality is that in 4 or 5 years, there will be at lest ten or so QBs, if not far more, in the range of 15-20 mil. It is just the way the league is trending. In the years where those big salaries were outliers, yes, they handicapped teams to an extent. As they become the new norm, they will just be part of the landscape of succeeding in the NFL.

Here is the even bigger question: If Russ is to be let go, because he can't carry an offense on his back, whatever that means, what is your alternative plan?

Outline your plan, I am all ears.

My nitpick with Russell Wilson are far more than nitpicks, they're passing fundamentals that he is sorely lacking. Most NFL offenses are predicated upon timing, and progressing through your reads. Peyton Manning might not be able to run, but you know what? Who cares. Running and mobility is one of the least important attributes in a QB. You know why he is able to do that? Because he is a master at manipulating the pocket, and he gets the ball out of his hand lightning quick. Peyton Manning is also able to diagnose what the defense is trying to do to him and he adjust accordingly.

I have not seen those attributes in Wilson, and they are very important factors when running a high octane offense. The audible game is important, its just not there for Wilson, and he seems to not be able to recognize the blitz very well. He definitely is a major culprit in Seattle's offensive line play. In fact no other QB held onto the ball for longer than Wilson last season. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -to-throw/
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... -sack-rate

Not only that but Seattle is almost dead last in pass attempts since Pete Carroll has been the head coach. The true star of the 2013 season was not Wilson, but the team around him. We had one of the best defenses of all time which is talked about in the same light as the 85 Bears, and a decent set of weapons surrounding Wilson. This would not be possible if Wilson was paid a high salary. Wilson was just another cog in the wheel on that 2013 squad.

Let's face it, we will never have a defense like we had in 2013. Our offense is going to have to pick up some of that slack, especially with the amount of resources we're going to be allocating to Wilson. Can Wilson handle that extra responsibility and drive us down the field on a consistent basis? I don't think he can. In lieu of that I do not think such a player is worth 100+ million dollars. The role he is in is perfect for him, but anything more and he folds.

I gave you too much credit at the start of this thread. There have been games when Wilson carried the Hawks. Whether he has to or not is immaterial, when he has had too, he has.

You ignore things that have happened, and invent things that have not. You love the traditional model, and in doing so laud a QB who could not perform in the clutch with great weapons around him just 9 months ago.

It isn't important to me that you like Russ. I have concerns too. But ignoring how big he has been when it has really mattered makes your voice null and void.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I gave you too much credit at the start of this thread. There have been games when Wilson carried the Hawks. Whether he has to or not is immaterial, when he has had too, he has.

You ignore things that have happened, and invent things that have not. You love the traditional model, and in doing so laud a QB who could not perform in the clutch with great weapons around him just 9 months ago.

It isn't important to me that you like Russ. I have concerns too. But ignoring how big he has been when it has really mattered makes your voice null and void.

I do not take much stock in 'game winning drives' or comeback victories. I'm a firm believe that if an offense is doing its job that one wouldn't be in that position in the first place. This is especially true for a team such as Seattle's that keeps teams games low scoring affairs.

One drive or two drives are much easier to engineer than a whole games worth of play. It is this very reason that I've never been very impressed with Andrew Luck's late game heroics. His play put the team in that very position in the first place, just like Seattle's impotent offense has put our team in the position of being down late in the 4th quarter.

And yes, Wilson has had a few REALLY good comebacks, and games with tremendous offensive production, but my question is can he do it on a regular basis? By this I mean production on offense. Many of Wilson's comebacks were low scoring affairs that the defense kept close with a few exceptions (NE, TAMPA)

 

[SoulfishHawk]

No stock in game winning drives??? Now I've heard it all. :rofl:

 

[AVL]

Wasn't someone just slobbering all over Luck, who also sucks so much he has to resort to numerous game winning drives?

Why do we waste our time?

 

[Spin Doctor]

No stock in game winning drives??? Now I've heard it all. :rofl:

What is funny about that? If a team was doing its job in the first place, then the team wouldn't be put in that position. What is funny about that proposition, especially since in most of those games with comebacks the Seahawks offense blew chunks until the final quarter of play, many times up until the final drive.

In the Seahawks case an ineffective offense put them in that position most of the times (notice I said most), and in Andrew Lucks case it's because he played like crap for the first halves of games.

Russell Wilson has also never won a game when the opposing team has put up more than 24 points.

 

[-The Glove-]

I gave you too much credit at the start of this thread. There have been games when Wilson carried the Hawks. Whether he has to or not is immaterial, when he has had too, he has.

You ignore things that have happened, and invent things that have not. You love the traditional model, and in doing so laud a QB who could not perform in the clutch with great weapons around him just 9 months ago.

It isn't important to me that you like Russ. I have concerns too. But ignoring how big he has been when it has really mattered makes your voice null and void.

I do not take much stock in 'game winning drives' or comeback victories. I'm a firm believe that if an offense is doing its job that one wouldn't be in that position in the first place. This is especially true for a team such as Seattle's that keeps teams games low scoring affairs.

One drive or two drives are much easier to engineer than a whole games worth of play. It is this very reason that I've never been very impressed with Andrew Luck's late game heroics. His play put the team in that very position in the first place, just like Seattle's impotent offense has put our team in the position of being down late in the 4th quarter.

And yes, Wilson has had a few REALLY good comebacks, and games with tremendous offensive production, but my question is can he do it on a regular basis? By this I mean production on offense. Many of Wilson's comebacks were low scoring affairs that the defense kept close with a few exceptions (NE, TAMPA)

And yet you praise Andrew Luck

 

[scutterhawk]

For some reason, there is a group of people who just LOVE to find fault in RW. It's like they just can't accept that he's one of the best in football. Even being short and not black enough :stirthepot:

I've been part of this group since day one. Every game I get irritated with Wilson. He holds the ball way too long and doesn't see down field very well. He doesn't have very good pocket presence or very good accuracy. Is he worth resigning? Yeah for sure. He's young and has a lot of potential but at the moment I wouldn't claim that he's one of the best.

He's "THE BEST" QB's the Seahawks have ever fielded.
He's "THE BEST" CHOICE that the Seahawks have, and there isn't ANYONE available that has his upside, and experience with the System that we use.
He is responsible for running for 100 Yards, and passing for another 300, there isn't anyone else out there that's ever done it before.
He's setting a lot of records, and all this in just 2 & 1/2 Seasons, with a shit Pass Protective O-Line.....He is one of "THE BEST"

 

[scutterhawk]

Just look at Manning, it's no accident that he has had a top 10 pass blocking line almost every year he has been in the league, even with his all-pro starting left tackle out in 2013

Yeah, let's do look at Manning--------Super Bowl 48 :roll: