Is Russell Wilson worth extending?

[randomation]

I gave you too much credit at the start of this thread. There have been games when Wilson carried the Hawks. Whether he has to or not is immaterial, when he has had too, he has.

You ignore things that have happened, and invent things that have not. You love the traditional model, and in doing so laud a QB who could not perform in the clutch with great weapons around him just 9 months ago.

It isn't important to me that you like Russ. I have concerns too. But ignoring how big he has been when it has really mattered makes your voice null and void.

I do not take much stock in 'game winning drives' or comeback victories. I'm a firm believe that if an offense is doing its job that one wouldn't be in that position in the first place. This is especially true for a team such as Seattle's that keeps teams games low scoring affairs.

One drive or two drives are much easier to engineer than a whole games worth of play. It is this very reason that I've never been very impressed with Andrew Luck's late game heroics. His play put the team in that very position in the first place, just like Seattle's impotent offense has put our team in the position of being down late in the 4th quarter.

And yes, Wilson has had a few REALLY good comebacks, and games with tremendous offensive production, but my question is can he do it on a regular basis? By this I mean production on offense. Many of Wilson's comebacks were low scoring affairs that the defense kept close with a few exceptions (NE, TAMPA)

And yet you praise Andrew Luck

Andrew Luck is playing at a very high level right now, he's in the MVP conversation for a reason. Just halfway into the season he has already surpassed Russell Wilson's highest touchdown total. His yards per average is way higher than the last two years Luck has played, and his completion percentage is also fairly decent. The offense over in Indy is looking far better than anything Seattle's ever fielded.

He is throwing the ball 40 times a game. He has the number six oline, he has ty and wayne and fleener. He is also feasting off the godawfulness that is the afc south he nearly threw a game against the texans ffs. His D is also not terrible. RW is playing in the most competitive divsion in football with a line that shouldn't be starting on a freaking college team let alone nfl.

Also you are ignoring the Atl game where russ basically dragged the team back for the D to throw the game in the last 30 seconds. Lucks career playoff highlights 7 interceptions in last years playoffs uh think that is it.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Just look at Manning, it's no accident that he has had a top 10 pass blocking line almost every year he has been in the league, even with his all-pro starting left tackle out in 2013

Yeah, let's do look at Manning--------Super Bowl 48 :roll:

As someone that has the Colts as ther 2nd favorite team since I've lived here,I watched Peyton and Luck from the start..The thing is you have to realize these QBs are tall big guys with arms..I mean they can see over the Off linemen and throw bullets if pressured in a second..They do not need all pro OL to flourish..The QBs have made them look better with the quick timing passes that keep the defense(s) from attacking like they would say Wilson..I don't know if Russ can stay in the pocket if he isn't able to see over whats coming like PM or Luck can...The lack of quick pass- slant timing plays
also hurts him..Lots of questionable stuff to be answered before they shower him with 30% of the cap...

Wilson has never had an all pro OL. How does that explain all the times he has flourished over his career?

The Colts line was great all of those years because of Peyton Manning.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

This may sound like sacrilege to many to the 9th degree, but it has been a question that has been nagging at the back of my mind for awhile. Wilson is going to due a huge pay day soon somewhere in the range of 120 million dollars. He is going to be one of the best, if not the best paid Quarterback in the NFL. This means the roster is going to have to undergo a serious makeover. No longer can we have big free agent acquisitions, this contract will certainly mean letting go of a few contributors on our team at this moment. We won the superbowl last year largely to a team that was good in all phases of the game. We can no longer count on that to be the case in the future, as we're already starting to see this season.

In lieu of the looming future the question I'm asking myself is: Can Wilson carry the team, can he be that elite QB that can carry the team on his back. If we re-sign him Wilson is going to have to shoulder a much larger burden, as it is going to cost the team in a few extra areas.

Russell Wilson is a good Quarterback, certainly better than the washed up Hasselbeck, the Flynns, TJs, and Whitehursts of this world. I have my doubts though as to whether he can transcend his point guard Quarterback status.

Wilson is already the best qb in the league right now. Who's better? Go watch the Denver game and the Super Bowl before you answer that.

 

[marymoorhawk]

If there was ever a thread that was screaming for some Billy Madison, this is the one ...

 

[razor150]

were to start first Rw is playing with a bunch of undrafted Wr and an oline that is crap and yet we are 5-3 and last year won the SB so obviously he elevates people around him that is just a silly thing to say. The as to Bradys great year really, he was barley a 60% complt%, that is not great and was 21st last year, he has a QB rating of 87 that is avg and was 17th last year. his YPA of 6.92 was 22nd last year. He had a 2/1 td/int ratio which is not good. Obviously you are a fantasy guy because the only thing he did well In was yards which throwing the ball over 600 times one would expect to be good. In fact he only had 25 tds.

So lets see Tom Brady one of the best QBs ever did the below last year when he supposedly did not have much with not much.

Brady 628 attempts, 4343 yards, 60% complt, 6.92 ypa, 25tds, 11ints, 87 QB rating, 18 rushing yards, 0 tds

Right now Rw is on pace for
Rw 484 attempts, 3338 yards, 63% complt, 6.90 YPA, 22 tds, 6 ints, 93 qb rating. and 786 rushing yards, 6 tds

Wait a minute how can this be Rw has just as good if not better stats with nothing than the great Tom Brady had with nothing and did so playing in a harder division and conference. OH and if you take into account the difference in attempts and move Rws numbers accordingly you get the below

Rw 628 Attempts, 4333 yards, 63% complt%, 6.90 YPA, 29 tds, 7 ints, 93 qb rating, and still 786 rushing yards and 6 tds

Wow amazing .

What all this boils down to is a select few who make statements without knowing the facts behind them and then arguing them and refusing to admit the facts show them wrong, that is the anti Rw group. And FYI last year NE pass blocking was ranked 9th in the league a far cry form Seattle 32nd last year, and way better than what Seattle sis this year. So Brady still had more around him.

ITs about knowing your facts and anit Rw group do not know their facts only their incorrect beliefs.

I am not a "fantasy guy", and even if I was that would be an idiotic argument.

Knowing my facts? Really, yet everybody in the RW circlejerk saying he is a top 5 QB in the league and deserves $25 million a year ignore simple facts like the magic number to beat the Seahawks is to score more then 24 points. So the only way the great top 5 QB that is Russel Wilson can beat another team is if defense is on point, otherwise we lose. Can you say the same of Tom Brady even on a down year from him? You can't, and that is the most damning thing for Russell Wilson.

I watch the same games everybody else does, Russell Wilson is a good QB, even one that shows glimpses of possibly being great one day. Then there are games like last week where most of the game you are just wondering what the hell he is doing. People keep harping on the offensive line, which is bad so you won't get any argument from me about that, but great QBs can and do make their offensive line look better then they are. Aaron Rogers has never had a good offensive line no matter what you say they are ranked now, it is because he makes quick decisions and gets rid of the ball. Peyton Manning when he was a Colt had a line largely made up of undrafted free-agents, and was a perennial MVP candidate. Russell Wilson just doesn't have the pocket presence to avoid pressure if it doesn't involve rolling out or running, and he will often run into a sack if he can't bail on the pocket instead of just moving with in it. He does hold on to the ball to long, and honestly in my opinion he is to cautious to take a chance when throwing the ball. Yes some of is due to our scheme, and philosophy on offense, the receiving core even though it isn't as bad as people around here like to claim, and our offensive line. So I don't blame everything on him, but one has to wonder why we don't call more plays that gets the ball out of Wilson's hands quicker.

When it comes down to it this team wins because of Lynch, a great defense that keeps the game close when the offense is sputtering, and because Russell Wilson doesn't turn the ball over and is asked to do just enough to win games. Can you honestly say this team would be just as good without Lynch and a middle of the road defense? I can't, because we lose right now when we don't have a running game and are forced to throw it a lot to keep up with the other team. When Wilson is forced to stay in the pocket and throw we lose. That is just a fact. Because of that I just don't think he is worth the numbers thrown around that will take to resign him. He will get that contract though, and I won't blame Schneider for giving it to him. We'll just have to see if Wilson can thrive in an environment where he is the entirety of the offense because his contract made it so we can no longer surround him with the team he was originally drafted into.

 

[Jacknut16]

"Wilson in fact led the league last season in average time before he got rid of the ball. Though to his credit Bevell's schemes might have something to do with that. Basically what I'm trying to say is his pocket presence really could use a lot of work. "
- Spin Doctor


When Wilsons Legs go, or when he losses even a step, injures a knee, a hip, an ankle his days as a top ten QB will be OVER.

But we have to sign him, we really don't have a choice. I just hope its more around 15 million, rather than 20 million.

 

[razor150]

Wilson is already the best qb in the league right now. Who's better? Go watch the Denver game and the Super Bowl before you answer that.

You do know even if Wilson did nothing that day we still win. The defense and special teams scored more points then Denver.

Saying Wilson is the best QB in the league is just plain silly, even when wearing rose colored glasses.

 

[kearly]

I think with Russell Wilson we are witnessing quite possibly the most gifted point guard QB of all time.

To answer the OP's question you must first determine if you even like point guard QBs (as opposed to 'traditional' QBs), and that if you do, how much do Wilson's height drawbacks concern you?

We know that Pete covets point guard QBs. He was talking up such QBs long before he drafted Wilson.

The height drawback can be considerable at times, but I think the new quick strike offense Pete and Bevell have implemented the past three weeks has helped solve some of these issues. This progress was incredibly evident in the second half of the Rams game, but masked somewhat in the Panthers and Raiders games because (probably by coincidence) Wilson just didn't have it those days.

But even in the last two games where Wilson was way off on so many throws, he showed exciting progress as a pocket QB who could find open targets (including those over the middle) with Peyton Manning type alacrity. They've asked Wilson to play like a totally different QB, and he's taken to it very well, other than the small sample size issues with distance accuracy, which again is probably coincidental.

I have a very high opinion of Wilson. I love point guard QBs, who by the way are no strangers to Super Bowl Championships or even dynasty runs. Every thing Pete does is about winning, not about stats. Wilson is the epitome of a dream QB for Pete.

With regards to WIlson's issues, his work ethic (and Pete's) assure me that no problem he has will last forever. It's ironic, but Wilson has proven Mel Kiper exactly right, in that his greatness while overcoming struggles proves exactly how difficult it is to play QB in the NFL at 5'10" or 5'11".

It isn't showing in his numbers right now, but Wilson is a better QB today than he was in 2013, and in 2013 he was a better QB than 2012. Every few weeks you can see tangible signs of improvement in his game, and there is still so much left for him to unlock on his path to greatness. And he will unlock it. It is easy to be patient with such a QB when he's already won a SB, and is off to the best start of any QB in NFL history through 2.5 seasons.

I think it would be crazy to not pay Wilson. He is already the best under 30 QB in the game, unless you think Luck is better. In that case, Wilson is the second best. For roughly the same money as Romo, Dalton, Kaepernick, Flacco... this is a total no brainer. Even after signing a 20+ million a year deal, Wilson would remain one of the NFL's more valuable commodities.

Especially this year. With the struggles Seattle has had, there is no way the Hawks are 5-3 with an average QB.

 

[Danthe12thman]

Is it not interesting how Tate is flourishing and Harvin after one week of Jets offense can put up 130 yards? An OC teaches and develops the entire offense. He creates the offense and then calls the play. I think if we got rid of Bevell that Wilson will be a top three QB. He runs the same offense he played in college and it just does not work in a faster NFL. No adjustments to what their defense is doing to Wilson. Keep Wilson, dump Bevell.

 

[Jacknut16]

What an utter complete joke of a post. Don't understand how after a SUPER BOWL win he has doubter like this. Unbelievable. How many years has Russ had a fluent, healthy O-Line? That answer is ZERO. He has constantly has backups on the o-line throughout his career. Not to mention that when healthy majority of the line is average at best.

How man true weapons has Russ had to throw to in his career? One, and that guy is coming from the backfield.

Russ makes EVERYONE around him better, he doesn't have the weapons Brady, Manning, Rodgers have and have had throughout their careers, yet he gets it done regardless.

How can you be a Seahawks fan and even remotely ask this question? Unreal.

Wilson didn't win the superbowl, the Seahawks did, and with one of the best defenses in the modern NFL, never forget that.

We also use the WRs the LEAST in the NFL, that isn't making your WRs better.

Wilson is a top 10 QB, and he DOES make the run game better with his style of play.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I think with Russell Wilson we are witnessing quite possibly the most gifted point guard QB of all time.

To answer the OP's question you must first determine if you even like point guard QBs (as opposed to 'traditional' QBs), and that if you do, how much do Wilson's height drawbacks concern you?

We know that Pete covets point guard QBs. He was talking up such QBs long before he drafted Wilson.

The height drawback can be considerable at times, but I think the new quick strike offense Pete and Bevell have implemented the past three weeks has helped solve some of these issues. This progress was incredibly evident in the second half of the Rams game, but masked somewhat in the Panthers and Raiders games because (probably by coincidence) Wilson just didn't have it those days.

But even in the last two games where Wilson was way off on so many throws, he showed exciting progress as a pocket QB who could find open targets (including those over the middle) with Peyton Manning type alacrity. They've asked Wilson to play like a totally different QB, and he's taken to it very well, other than the small sample size issues with distance accuracy, which again is probably coincidental.

I have a very high opinion of Wilson. I love point guard QBs, who by the way are no strangers to Super Bowl Championships or even dynasty runs. Every thing Pete does is about winning, not about stats. Wilson is the epitome of a dream QB for Pete.

With regards to WIlson's issues, his work ethic (and Pete's) assure me that no problem he has will last forever. It's ironic, but Wilson has proven Mel Kiper exactly right, in that his greatness while overcoming struggles proves exactly how difficult it is to play QB in the NFL at 5'10" or 5'11".

It isn't showing in his numbers right now, but Wilson is a better QB today than he was in 2013, and in 2013 he was a better QB than 2012. Every few weeks you can see tangible signs of improvement in his game, and there is still so much left for him to unlock on his path to greatness. And he will unlock it. It is easy to be patient with such a QB when he's already won a SB, and is off to the best start of any QB in NFL history through 2.5 seasons.

I think it would be crazy to not pay Wilson. He is already the best under 30 QB in the game, unless you think Luck is better. In that case, Wilson is the second best. For roughly the same money as Romo, Dalton, Kaepernick, Flacco... this is a total no brainer. Even after signing a 20+ million a year deal, Wilson would remain one of the NFL's more valuable commodities.

Especially this year. With the struggles Seattle has had, there is no way the Hawks are 5-3 with an average QB.

Thanks for your input Kearly, it is always a treat when you chime in on threads.

As far as point guard QB's, there are some that I would take in a heartbeat -- in fact there are some that have led some very prolific offenses. Guys like Ben Roethlisberger, Donavon McNabb, Randall Cunningham with the Vikings. McNabb and Cunningham really took a step up in their careers when they learned to stay in the pocket, and use their mobility more sparingly. That is the next step I would like Wilson to take, though as you mentioned his height may play a factor here. If I were him I would really study drew Brees, he's the master at manipulating pockets and finding passing lanes. He's tiny by NFL standards yet he fearlessly steps up into the pocket. I would also like to see more timing throws ala' Holmgren in this offense.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I just want to know what Spin Doctor's plan is if we didn't extend Russell Wilson.

We have no choice. Is he worth the biggest contract in NFL history, (which rest assured.. he WILL get...)? Probably not.. but we don't have a choice either. You let Russ walk and you're right back to square one.. combing the draft for a hopeful solution or the trade/FA market for the likes of a Matt Flynn, Charlie Whitehurst, Tarvaris Jackson, etc.

 

[Scottemojo]

I just want to know what Spin Doctor's plan is if we didn't extend Russell Wilson.

We have no choice. Is he worth the biggest contract in NFL history, (which rest assured.. he WILL get...)? Probably not.. but we don't have a choice either. You let Russ walk and you're right back to square one.. combing the draft for a hopeful solution or the trade/FA market for the likes of a Matt Flynn, Charlie Whitehurst, Tarvaris Jackson, etc.

I asked that, he had no reply. More interested in knocking Wilson than providing a plan to replace him.

 

[hawk45]

It's interesting to observe that many teams who have paid top money to their QBs have had difficulties keeping the rest of the roster up to snuff, but ultimately pointless.

Because if you have a guy capable of making enough plays to win a Superbowl, you don't let him walk. If you do, you must strike immediate paydirt with a lower round pick (because you're a playoff contending team), and no front office with sanity counts on that.

Let Russell walk and you may eventually find the right replacement, but by the time you've gone through another round of Tjack, Whitehurst, and Flynn, you've lost your job as a GM, as well you should.

I agree that Russell's strength right now is not carrying the team passing within the pocket, but his legs are the only thing that allows us to win games when the OL gets its annual rash of injuries. Keeps us in it until we get some of them back.

And I am not comfortable judging Wilson as a pocket passer until he has a few games behind a healthy line. He's had maybe a handful of such games the last 2 years.

Wilson is the perfect QB with our zone blocking scheme. He can endure the first 3 quarters and if need be beat the opponents with his legs in the 4th quarter. That resiliency is the only reason we have won on the road.

 

[Hasselbeck]

It's interesting to observe that many teams who have paid top money to their QBs have had difficulties keeping the rest of the roster up to snuff, but ultimately pointless.

Taking a discount doesn't guarantee anything either, just ask Tom Brady.

But you want another fool proof way to not make a Super Bowl any time soon? Let a franchise QB walk because you're too cheap to give him market value.. then trot out a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Chad Henne, Kyle Orton, etc.

Because thats exactly what would wind up happening if we let Russell Wilson go. This is exactly why Dalton, Kaep, Flacco, Alex Smith, Cutler, etc all got big money deals. Those teams had no choice. And Russell Wilson is much better than all of these guys. Further.. the only team with the personnel to probably make a Super Bowl run without one of those QB's was San Francisco.. and we saw them whiff with Alex Smith (superior to Kaep IMO) and Kaep.

Just because your personnel is great doesnt mean you win a Super Bowl.. we didn't beat the Broncos 43-8 solely because of defense. Russell Wilson was still a key part to that championship. So choosing to pour money into every position but QB isn't a viable method to win either.. oh and by the way Spin Doctor.. not only was Russell Wilson really cheap last year, but so were Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner, Byron Maxwell, Earl Thomas, Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse, etc. etc. etc. Go figure huh?

Again - I don't know how many people would agree that Russell Wilson should be the highest paid player in NFL history.. but thats the market for these deals. He'll be the highest paid player in NFL history until Cam Newton gets his deal. Then Cam will until Andrew Luck gets his deal. And so on.

 

[Spin Doctor]

It's interesting to observe that many teams who have paid top money to their QBs have had difficulties keeping the rest of the roster up to snuff, but ultimately pointless.

Taking a discount doesn't guarantee anything either, just ask Tom Brady.

But you want another fool proof way to not make a Super Bowl any time soon? Let a franchise QB walk because you're too cheap to give him market value.. then trot out a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Chad Henne, Kyle Orton, etc.

Because thats exactly what would wind up happening if we let Russell Wilson go. This is exactly why Dalton, Kaep, Flacco, Alex Smith, Cutler, etc all got big money deals. Those teams had no choice. And Russell Wilson is much better than all of these guys. Further.. the only team with the personnel to probably make a Super Bowl run without one of those QB's was San Francisco.. and we saw them whiff with Alex Smith (superior to Kaep IMO) and Kaep.

Just because your personnel is great doesnt mean you win a Super Bowl.. we didn't beat the Broncos 43-8 solely because of defense. Russell Wilson was still a key part to that championship. So choosing to pour money into every position but QB isn't a viable method to win either.. oh and by the way Spin Doctor.. not only was Russell Wilson really cheap last year, but so were Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner, Byron Maxwell, Earl Thomas, Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse, etc. etc. etc. Go figure huh?

Again - I don't know how many people would agree that Russell Wilson should be the highest paid player in NFL history.. but thats the market for these deals. He'll be the highest paid player in NFL history until Cam Newton gets his deal. Then Cam will until Andrew Luck gets his deal. And so on.

Funny that you mention Kyle Orton, I think in the right offensive system that the Seahawks could be very successful with a QB such as Orton. A veteran stopgap such as Orton with a rookie/developmental QB is the ideal scenario on a Russelless Seahawks team.

 

[Grahamhawker]

No team/QB that has lead the NFL in passing yardage has won the Superbowl that year.

Ever.

Just saying...

That said, I think we better keep RW, for all he can do. I actually brought this up last year. Could PC & JS spin some more magic and come up with another? Slim chance imo.

 

[Anthony!]

It's interesting to observe that many teams who have paid top money to their QBs have had difficulties keeping the rest of the roster up to snuff, but ultimately pointless.

Taking a discount doesn't guarantee anything either, just ask Tom Brady.

But you want another fool proof way to not make a Super Bowl any time soon? Let a franchise QB walk because you're too cheap to give him market value.. then trot out a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick, Chad Henne, Kyle Orton, etc.

Because thats exactly what would wind up happening if we let Russell Wilson go. This is exactly why Dalton, Kaep, Flacco, Alex Smith, Cutler, etc all got big money deals. Those teams had no choice. And Russell Wilson is much better than all of these guys. Further.. the only team with the personnel to probably make a Super Bowl run without one of those QB's was San Francisco.. and we saw them whiff with Alex Smith (superior to Kaep IMO) and Kaep.

Just because your personnel is great doesnt mean you win a Super Bowl.. we didn't beat the Broncos 43-8 solely because of defense. Russell Wilson was still a key part to that championship. So choosing to pour money into every position but QB isn't a viable method to win either.. oh and by the way Spin Doctor.. not only was Russell Wilson really cheap last year, but so were Richard Sherman, Brandon Browner, Byron Maxwell, Earl Thomas, Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Chris Clemons, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse, etc. etc. etc. Go figure huh?

Again - I don't know how many people would agree that Russell Wilson should be the highest paid player in NFL history.. but thats the market for these deals. He'll be the highest paid player in NFL history until Cam Newton gets his deal. Then Cam will until Andrew Luck gets his deal. And so on.

Funny that you mention Kyle Orton, I think in the right offensive system that the Seahawks could be very successful with a QB such as Orton. A veteran stopgap such as Orton with a rookie/developmental QB is the ideal scenario on a Russelless Seahawks team.

ukeface:

 

[Grahamhawker]

Clayton says pay him for the simple reason good NFL quarterbacks are hard to get and you need one to win.