"If Michael Bennett wants to sit for anthem..."

[kidhawk]

That neighborhood BBQ line is wondrous !!!!
Kudo's

Can't agree. Comparing Kaep to a sex offender is way off the mark.

I don't think anyone compared Kaep to a sex offender, that seemed like a comparison of actions, not people.

He is saying what Kaep did is as bad as a sex offender. Kaep broke no laws, sex offender has. He may not want either to come his BBQ, but they are not equivalent actions.

I think neither of us can say definitely that he thinks what Kaep did is as bad as a sex offender. That's reading something that isn't there.

I can see why you could come to that conclusion, but when I read it, I saw it as it being a comparison (albeit a bad one) as to someone who isn't wanted.

I think it's a very poor example, because many owners have come out to support players who are currently kneeling, so there's no real reason they'd have to not want Kaep, because those same fans who would be against Kaep are against guys like Bennett who are doing the same thing. I'm pretty sure that nobody (well almost nobody) is defending the sex offender for not getting invited to the BBQ.

Honestly, only one person can say what the intent was, and we all know that what's written in a forum like this is not always taken as it's meant.

 

[StoneCold]

Can't agree. Comparing Kaep to a sex offender is way off the mark.

I don't think anyone compared Kaep to a sex offender, that seemed like a comparison of actions, not people.

He is saying what Kaep did is as bad as a sex offender. Kaep broke no laws, sex offender has. He may not want either to come his BBQ, but they are not equivalent actions.

I think neither of us can say definitely that he thinks what Kaep did is as bad as a sex offender. That's reading something that isn't there.

I can see why you could come to that conclusion, but when I read it, I saw it as it being a comparison (albeit a bad one) as to someone who isn't wanted.

I think it's a very poor example, because many owners have come out to support players who are currently kneeling, so there's no real reason they'd have to not want Kaep, because those same fans who would be against Kaep are against guys like Bennett who are doing the same thing. I'm pretty sure that nobody (well almost nobody) is defending the sex offender for not getting invited to the BBQ.

Honestly, only one person can say what the intent was, and we all know that what's written in a forum like this is not always taken as it's meant.

I appreciate your thoughts Kid. We agree it's a bad comparison. I'll await clarification from Mindsink.

 

[Mindsink]

I'm comparing situations of being "blackballed". It has nothing to do with comparing Kaep to a sex offender.

Maybe the guy was friendly with all his neighbors before he got prosecuted for knocking up the Jones' underage daughter. But after that, it's sort of unspoken among the community that he is to keep his distance from neighborhood events.

The NFL owners didn't all get together and say "let's keep this guy out of the league". It's known that players with baggage or controversy are not well received. Add to that the fact that he's not a good QB, and it's no wonder he's not playing.

It's similar to why guys like Johnny Manziel and Tim Tebow are out of the league.

And the fact that this guy declined an offer from the CFL tells me this has little to do with wanting to play football. So who would want a guy like that on their team?

 

[hawk45]

Scott simply asserted that Kaepernick is being blackballed by the NFL, which is relatively obvious. You can debate whether it's right or wrong or whether it's because of team chemistry or whatever. All those discussions have merit. But with so many teams in this league desperate for QB's, It is simply absurd to me that anyone could deny that Kaepernick is out of work because of his social justice stance.

Kaepernick's extracurricular activities and the possible negative fan reaction are surely a very large factor. Another factor is that his value as a player doesn't offset the possible negatives. This distraction/value calculus goes on for every NFL team for every player.

My response is: so what?

If by "blackballed" he means that each individual team has decided the negatives of Kaepernick's activism outweigh his benefits as a player, then that isn't an actionable injustice against Kaepernick. Let's say I do something, anything, harmful to the bottom line of my current employer that results in splashy bad PR, in an industry where PR is a major consideration (which is nearly every industry, but especially the entertainment industry). Other employers very likely will stay far away from me. So what.

*Collusion* is, and collusion is the word lurking behind Scott's usage of the word "blackball", because many conflate the two concepts. But Scott knows there's no evidence of collusion, and that such evidence is excruciatingly difficult to find sans audio footage of mustache-twirling NFL owners laughing about rejecting Kaepernick in a smoke-filled room.

This SI article is a pretty good run-down of Kaepernick's conclusion grievance why collusion is a pretty high bar to clear.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/15/colin-kaepernick-collusion-lawsuit-against-nfl

In my opinion the only way Kaepernick wins a collusion claim is if he gets an activist judge/arbitrator, and even then it can't stand up to appeal.

 

[StoneCold]

Scott simply asserted that Kaepernick is being blackballed by the NFL, which is relatively obvious. You can debate whether it's right or wrong or whether it's because of team chemistry or whatever. All those discussions have merit. But with so many teams in this league desperate for QB's, It is simply absurd to me that anyone could deny that Kaepernick is out of work because of his social justice stance.

Kaepernick's extracurricular activities and the possible negative fan reaction are surely a very large factor. Another factor is that his value as a player doesn't offset the possible negatives. This distraction/value calculus goes on for every NFL team for every player.

My response is: so what?

If by "blackballed" he means that each individual team has decided the negatives of Kaepernick's activism outweigh his benefits as a player, then that isn't an actionable injustice against Kaepernick. Let's say I do something, anything, harmful to the bottom line of my current employer that results in splashy bad PR, in an industry where PR is a major consideration (which is nearly every industry, but especially the entertainment industry). Other employers very likely will stay far away from me. So what.

*Collusion* is, and collusion is the word lurking behind Scott's usage of the word "blackball", because many conflate the two concepts. But Scott knows there's no evidence of collusion, and that such evidence is excruciatingly difficult to find sans audio footage of mustache-twirling NFL owners laughing about rejecting Kaepernick in a smoke-filled room.

This SI article is a pretty good run-down of Kaepernick's conclusion grievance why collusion is a pretty high bar to clear.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/15/colin-kaepernick-collusion-lawsuit-against-nfl

In my opinion the only way Kaepernick wins a collusion claim is if he gets an activist judge/arbitrator, and even then it can't stand up to appeal.

Collusion will indeed be very difficult to prove. I heard it speculated that proving it may not be his main motivation, though honestly I can't remember what the person said it might be. Perhaps he thinks he can pressure them into hiring him. I don't think that's likely either. He's made millions and perhaps he's just poking the bear since he doesn't need the money because he can.

As for how he would be welcomed on a team? Winning does miraculous things for both accused felons and malcontents.

 

[hawk45]

Collusion will indeed be very difficult to prove. I heard it speculated that proving it may not be his main motivation, though honestly I can't remember what the person said it might be. Perhaps he thinks he can pressure them into hiring him. I don't think that's likely either. He's made millions and perhaps he's just poking the bear since he doesn't need the money because he can.

As for how he would be welcomed on a team? Winning does miraculous things for both accused felons and malcontents.

Green statement above actually makes more sense to me than a straightforward attempt to get hired or compensated through this grievance. Kaepernick's strategy all along has been to do whatever is necessary, however divisive, controversial, or harmful to his own career, in order to keep his concerns in the public eye. This would be consistent with that strategy, and is consistent with a lot of activism really.

 

[Osprey]

Collusion will indeed be very difficult to prove. I heard it speculated that proving it may not be his main motivation, though honestly I can't remember what the person said it might be. Perhaps he thinks he can pressure them into hiring him. I don't think that's likely either. He's made millions and perhaps he's just poking the bear since he doesn't need the money because he can.

As for how he would be welcomed on a team? Winning does miraculous things for both accused felons and malcontents.

Green statement above actually makes more sense to me than a straightforward attempt to get hired or compensated through this grievance. Kaepernick's strategy all along has been to do whatever is necessary, however divisive, controversial, or harmful to his own career, in order to keep his concerns in the public eye. This would be consistent with that strategy, and is consistent with a lot of activism really.

Pure speculation, but stands to reason:

Kaep has FAR more value to his movement as a martyr than as a back-up QB on a good team or a starter on a desperate one. It's extremely suspicious that Nessa sabotaged his pending Baltimore signing with her slave master tweet.

Agreed on the collusion vs. consensus analysis. Because the owners have all reached the same conclusion doesn't mean they've conspired.

 

[WmHBonney]

Now Bennett wants the Kaepernick issue addressed before the players go any further with these meetings....it's time for Bennett to go before this becomes any more of a team distraction. NOBODY owes anybody a right to make a living. Bennett is just being a tool.

 

[seahawkfreak]

Now Bennett wants the Kaepernick issue addressed before the players go any further with these meetings....it's time for Bennett to go before this becomes any more of a team distraction. NOBODY owes anybody a right to make a living. Bennett is just being a tool.

Let's be straight forward about this. Many people believe "hands up don't shoot" happened in St. Louis and it didn't. This was a media lie and continues to believed by many to this day. Now, our National Anthem, which is something that was once a signal of unity in the country has now been politicized and is used for further divisiveness. Football used to be something that citizens could be united on. Most here would disagree with my views on politics but we all love the Seahawks. That means something in a country.

There is a constant drum beat that there is a constitutional right to continue this protest. Fine, protest, now reap the repercussions of said protest. Roger Goodell and the owners of the NFL are cowards and their lack of leadership for not putting an end to this immediately is reprehensible. Players in this league can be fined for not wearing the right colored socks yet the Anthem issue is controversial? Shame on them.

Rape is not wrong because the law says it is. Rape is wrong because it is evil and therefore a law was made against it (this is an example, I am not saying National Anthem protests are synonymous with rape). Just because there is not a law and or rule against the protest of the National Anthem, it does not mean it is not wrong. The response of social indignation to these malcontent players is not only warranted, it is deserved and should be strongly encouraged.

 

[sutz]

If we have to force people to "respect" the flag, is that really patriotism?

Oh, and then there is this guy:

 

[Mindsink]

Um, I don't think anybody is advocating for forcing people to stand. The players have every right to kneel, sit, do cartwheels, etc. It's about willful disrespect.

 

[hawk45]

If we have to force people to "respect" the flag, is that really patriotism?

No, it isn't. But if they are forced to stand it prevents a conspicuous display of disrespect for the nation's flag and that's good enough. And "force" is the wrong word. They are making a choice: continue to virtue signal or continue to be paid millions for playing a game. It's the same choice we all make when we don't stand in front of our work office waving banners or interject political discussion into work conversations with our customers. Are we being forced?

Look, I don't care a single bit about whether players are patriotic or not in their own time, in fact I don't care what any entertainer has to say about anything. The best solution is to keep them in the locker room for the anthem so they aren't tempted to pretend they have anything helpful to say about anything.

 

[pmedic920]

In my eyes this whole situation is bull shit.

Employees all over the world have to abide by rules, guidelines and procedures.

Very few , if any employers are going to allow an employee to damage their appearance/reputation regardless of what hat the reason is.

Like I said above, we aren’t even talking about the reason/reasons that the protests started.
Should be fairly obvious how effective the protest is at this point.

This tread is a microcosm of what this stuff is doing to our population.

I’m not gunna watch the NFL if players kneel.

I’m not gunna watch the NFL if they don’t make the players stand.

This stupid debate won’t prevent one unjustified shooting by the police if folks don’t focus on why the protest started.

I’m probably the stupidest guy in this thread and I can see it, am I the only one?

There was a point when this raised awareness, now it’s only about “the right” to protest.
Absolutely ridiculous if ya ask me.

 

[hawk45]

This stupid debate won’t prevent one unjustified shooting by the police if folks don’t focus on why the protest started.

I’m probably the stupidest guy in this thread and I can see it, am I the only one?
.

No, you're not the only one.

In fact, everyone who is unimpressed by empty virtue-signaling is right there with you. And that's quite a lot of people, as the NFL, its sponsors, and the networks are discovering to their dismay.

From the start it has boggled me that nobody has stepped up to a microphone and said hey, wait a minute, justice for all is great here but I thought there was an emergency around people of color (allegedly) being gunned down willy-nilly?

I mean yay for total equality or whatever but I was told cops are out in the streets bagging their quota of black men. Oh well, guess getting to the truth or falsity of that assertion isn't very important, since now it isn't even worth mentioning.

I think it's cowardice. Kneeling for the flag draws enough flak, but the cop angle is explosive and potentially career-killing if you stay on-message as Kaepernick has. If you just mouth general platitudes about equality, folks will nod their heads, you won't ever get into a specific accusation you might need to defend; you get to have your virtue-signalling cake and eat it too .

As I've said, I disagree with Kaepernick's conclusions and his method of protest, but at least he is invested in the grievances his girlfriend told him to be invested in.

 

[StoneCold]

I think people should be more patient with how this is unfolding. It may turn out to be a misguided attempt at making a change. But it also might just be the way history unfolds in a messy, free society. I think expecting it to be anything else is a recipe for frustration. Just looking at how it began I can see that it's going to take some time for leader or leaders to emerge and come up with a plan of action. I'm also guessing that there are initiatives and conversations occurring that we know nothing about. You can be mad the press or people in general are not talking about those things, but those that are taking action are not doing so to appease our need for a clear tidy resolution that meets our qualifications for a proper and productive protest.

 

[kidhawk]

I think people should be more patient with how this is unfolding. It may turn out to be a misguided attempt at making a change. But it also might just be the way history unfolds in a messy, free society. I think expecting it to be anything else is a recipe for frustration. Just looking at how it began I can see that it's going to take some time for leader or leaders to emerge and come up with a plan of action. I'm also guessing that there are initiatives and conversations occurring that we know nothing about. You can be mad the press or people in general are not talking about those things, but those that are taking action are not doing so to appease our need for a clear tidy resolution that meets our qualifications for a proper and productive protest.

There definitely won't be a quick solution to the reasons behind the protests, but what bothers me (and I mentioned this in one of the Baldwin threads), is how the media likes to focus on dividing the masses by almost exclusively talking about the protests and not giving any real details about what players are doing besides just sitting/kneeling. Too much sensationalism in the media nowadays and not enough actual digging for truth.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Bottom line: I watch football because it's entertaining. If I want politics, I'll watch C-SPAN or the major news networks.

 

[hawk45]

There definitely won't be a quick solution to the reasons behind the protests, but what bothers me (and I mentioned this in one of the Baldwin threads), is how the media likes to focus on dividing the masses by almost exclusively talking about the protests and not giving any real details about what players are doing besides just sitting/kneeling. Too much sensationalism in the media nowadays and not enough actual digging for truth.

I agree with this.

Which is why when the players choose a divisive protest tactic guaranteed to be seized on as a distraction and then compound that by being utterly unable to articulate a consistent message, the players are to blame. Kaepernick managed not to lose the thread, but then Kaepernick had an actual issue in mind. The rest of them are just making noise.

And @StoneCold, I'm sorry but no. You don't get to virtue-signal in a way that pits everyone at each other's throats while simultaneously drowning out real issues in utter noise and then get the benefit of patience from the poor yokels who have to sit through the consequences. They have to put at least as much thought into their position as they are asking the rest of us to put into our reaction. Right now we're all supposed to wade through the thickets, tease out some actionable grievances, and not be pissed off at their ambiguity, all the while they get bouquets for being woke.

 

[sutz]

And @StoneCold, I'm sorry but no. You don't get to virtue-signal in a way that pits everyone at each other's throats while simultaneously drowning out real issues in utter noise and then get the benefit of patience from the poor yokels who have to sit through the consequences. They have to put at least as much thought into their position as they are asking the rest of us to put into our reaction. Right now we're all supposed to wade through the thickets, tease out some actionable grievances, and not be pissed off at their ambiguity, all the while they get bouquets for being woke.

[youtube]ke5Mr5eCF2U[/youtube]

Well said. :laugh:

 

[hawksincebirth]

Yes, sorry, let's get back to the Bennett topic. In my efforts to try and argue the reason for the protests, it certainly drove into political even though I purposely stated and posted only factual and validated data for this reason.

Smokin': we can go to PM on this reply, but I'm not sure why posting false, or at least wildly deceptive stuff like the Soros connection and citing a news source with extreme bias like Washington TImes is helpful. I'd say the same if someone said the opposite and cited Huffington Post. Thus, why I posted the sources I did that are considered unbiased.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-times/

Sorry everyone, carry on.

I don't know about you guys, but I watch football and other sports to be entertained, not to be propagandized. This shit just isn't ok.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha what a joke . I guess only the propaganda you agree with lmao

The black fist is like the nazi salute
The raised fist, or the clenched fist, is a symbol of solidarity and support.[1] It is also used as a salute to express unity, strength, defiance, or resistance.

Where is that white supremacy or hitler exterminating Jews ???