How responsible is PC for each aspect of the game?

[JayhawkMike]

Honest question.

I see a lot of posts that blame PC and not Shotty when we play Pete Ball. However, Shotty gets credit at times when people like the offense. So which is it? PC has a large say on the offense or let’s the OC do his thing? Or does it just depend?

Same with defense. I see a lot of complaints the KNJ is just running PCs high school defense and has little say. At the same time KNJ gets killed for the defense sucking (my position too btw) but Pete only gets hit for not firing KNJ. So which is it? If we have a historically bad defense is it PC, KNJ or JS with pisspore personnel decisions?

Also goes for drafts. When we pick a crappy first round pick is that on PC or JS? Yes, JS is GM but who has the real final say?

I am curious what everyone thinks.

 

[TreeRon]

Pete 100% responsible. He's the HC(and VP).

 

[Fade]

The buck stops with Pete. He is head of Football Operations.

-He can tell Schneider what to do if he wants. (Pete has final say.)

-He decides who gets to be a coach on this team, and who gets to stay as a coach on this team.

-He has final say on the 53.

-He is heavily involved with who they take early in the draft. (He isn't as involved later now because he has been out of college for so long, so he defers more to John on day 3 of the draft.)

-He is heavily involved in UFA, trades, and all aspects of the program. It is HIS program. Down to what the players have for lunch.

Pete told a story, back when he was with the Patriots, that ownership changed what the players were going to have for lunch. It wasn't what Pete suggested, and Pete got real bent out of shape about it. That is the level of detail and control Pete wants, and has.

I made a thread a couple of weeks back, that I would like to see Pete stripped of his power, and just focus on being a head coach. It was not well received, but those that disagreed were in denial, more and more will see it my way. Just have to give it a little more time.

The fix is simple, and I feel if Paul were alive, the wheels would already be in motion.

-- Pete is just the head coach, similar to what happened with Holmgren in 2005.
-- New DC, preferably with great enough success to have been a HC. Zimmer, Fangio, etc.
With full autonomy, to build the defense of his liking, Pete still gets to sign off on the hire, but that's it.
-- John Schneider has full roster control and autonomy so he can be evaluated properly.

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

The buck stops with Pete. He is head of Football Operations.

-He can tell Schneider what to do if he wants. (Pete has final say.)

-He decides who gets to be a coach on this team, and who gets to stay as a coach on this team.

-He has final say on the 53.

-He is heavily involved with who they take early in the draft. (He isn't as involved later now because he has been out of college for so long, so he defers more to John on day 3 of the draft.)

-He is heavily involved in UFA, trades, and all aspects of the program. It is HIS program. Down to what the players have for lunch.

Pete told a story, back when he was with the Patriots, that ownership changed what the players were going to have for lunch. It wasn't what Pete suggested, and Pete got real bent out of shape about it. That is the level of detail and control Pete wants, and has.

I made a thread a couple of weeks back, that I would like to see Pete stripped of his power, and just focus on being a head coach. It was not well received, but those that disagreed were in denial, more and more will see it my way. Just have to give it a little more time.

The fix is simple, and I feel if Paul were alive, the wheels would already be in motion.

-- Pete is just the head coach, similar to what happened with Holmgren in 2005.
-- New DC, preferably with great enough success to have been a HC. Zimmer, Fangio, etc.
With full autonomy, to build the defense of his liking, Pete still gets to sign off on the hire, but that's it.
-- John Schneider has full roster control and autonomy so he can be evaluated properly.

I agree that Pete should be HC only, but who's gonna demote him? Since Paul Allen passed there has been no real figurehead in office. Yes, his sister technically owns the team now, but I have a feeling she'd just keep Pete around to do the heavy lifting anyway. The only way I see that changing is if the Seahawks suddenly went 4-12 two or three seasons in a row, or Pete hangs it up.

 

[Fade]

The buck stops with Pete. He is head of Football Operations.

-He can tell Schneider what to do if he wants. (Pete has final say.)

-He decides who gets to be a coach on this team, and who gets to stay as a coach on this team.

-He has final say on the 53.

-He is heavily involved with who they take early in the draft. (He isn't as involved later now because he has been out of college for so long, so he defers more to John on day 3 of the draft.)

-He is heavily involved in UFA, trades, and all aspects of the program. It is HIS program. Down to what the players have for lunch.

Pete told a story, back when he was with the Patriots, that ownership changed what the players were going to have for lunch. It wasn't what Pete suggested, and Pete got real bent out of shape about it. That is the level of detail and control Pete wants, and has.

I made a thread a couple of weeks back, that I would like to see Pete stripped of his power, and just focus on being a head coach. It was not well received, but those that disagreed were in denial, more and more will see it my way. Just have to give it a little more time.

The fix is simple, and I feel if Paul were alive, the wheels would already be in motion.

-- Pete is just the head coach, similar to what happened with Holmgren in 2005.
-- New DC, preferably with great enough success to have been a HC. Zimmer, Fangio, etc.
With full autonomy, to build the defense of his liking, Pete still gets to sign off on the hire, but that's it.
-- John Schneider has full roster control and autonomy so he can be evaluated properly.

I agree that Pete should be HC only, but who's gonna demote him? Since Paul Allen passed there has been no real figurehead in office. Yes, his sister technically owns the team now, but I have a feeling she'd just keep Pete around to do the heavy lifting anyway. The only way I see that changing is if the Seahawks suddenly went 4-12 two or three seasons in a row, or Pete hangs it up.

I agree. They are a rudderless ship at the top (ownership). And that is going to be a problem going forward. Just have to hope for the best. That 5 year extension was asinine. 1yr would've sufficed for the oldest coach in the league. If enough fans get pissed off and start making noise, changes can be made, but more losing has to happen first. Hard to do with a Hall of Fame QB, who routinely carries dead bodies over the finish line.

Norton is all but getting fired imo, he is the fall guy for Pete's mess. But believe it or not, it won't fix much, if Pete is still heavily involved with the same structure, and his same failed processes that built and coached the worst defense in NFL history.

 

[chris98251]

The buck stops with Pete. He is head of Football Operations.

-He can tell Schneider what to do if he wants. (Pete has final say.)

-He decides who gets to be a coach on this team, and who gets to stay as a coach on this team.

-He has final say on the 53.

-He is heavily involved with who they take early in the draft. (He isn't as involved later now because he has been out of college for so long, so he defers more to John on day 3 of the draft.)

-He is heavily involved in UFA, trades, and all aspects of the program. It is HIS program. Down to what the players have for lunch.

Pete told a story, back when he was with the Patriots, that ownership changed what the players were going to have for lunch. It wasn't what Pete suggested, and Pete got real bent out of shape about it. That is the level of detail and control Pete wants, and has.

I made a thread a couple of weeks back, that I would like to see Pete stripped of his power, and just focus on being a head coach. It was not well received, but those that disagreed were in denial, more and more will see it my way. Just have to give it a little more time.

The fix is simple, and I feel if Paul were alive, the wheels would already be in motion.

-- Pete is just the head coach, similar to what happened with Holmgren in 2005.
-- New DC, preferably with great enough success to have been a HC. Zimmer, Fangio, etc.
With full autonomy, to build the defense of his liking, Pete still gets to sign off on the hire, but that's it.
-- John Schneider has full roster control and autonomy so he can be evaluated properly.

I agree that Pete should be HC only, but who's gonna demote him? Since Paul Allen passed there has been no real figurehead in office. Yes, his sister technically owns the team now, but I have a feeling she'd just keep Pete around to do the heavy lifting anyway. The only way I see that changing is if the Seahawks suddenly went 4-12 two or three seasons in a row, or Pete hangs it up.

I agree. They are a rudderless ship at the top (ownership). And that is going to be a problem going forward. Just have to hope for the best. That 5 year extension was asinine. 1yr would've sufficed for the oldest coach in the league. If enough fans get pissed off and start making noise, changes can be made, but more losing has to happen first. Hard to do with a Hall of Fame QB, who routinely carries dead bodies over the finish line.

Norton is all but getting fired imo, he is the fall guy for Pete's mess. But believe it or not, it won't fix much, if Pete is still heavily involved with the same structure, and his same failed processes that built and coached the worst defense in NFL history.

Paul was very off hands as well, don't blame Jody, she as Paul has the Owner but oversight was Chuck Arnold, Chris McGowan, Bert Kolde, Paul like Jody makes the final call on big decisions such as Pete's extension, Russell and Bobby's contracts true. But Vulcan's guys are deeply involved in the Operations aspect which would include Coach and GM.

Scott Fitterer VP of Football Operations
Trent Kirchner VP of Player Personnel
Matt Berry Director of College Scouting
Nolan Teasley Director of Pro Personnel
Willie Schneider Assistant Director Pro Personnel
Alonzo Highsmith Personnel Executive
Matt Capurro Director of Team Operations
Jason Barnes Personnel Executive

 

[xray]

100%

 

[Uncle Si]

The buck stops with Pete. He is head of Football Operations.

-He can tell Schneider what to do if he wants. (Pete has final say.)

-He decides who gets to be a coach on this team, and who gets to stay as a coach on this team.

-He has final say on the 53.

-He is heavily involved with who they take early in the draft. (He isn't as involved later now because he has been out of college for so long, so he defers more to John on day 3 of the draft.)

-He is heavily involved in UFA, trades, and all aspects of the program. It is HIS program. Down to what the players have for lunch.

Pete told a story, back when he was with the Patriots, that ownership changed what the players were going to have for lunch. It wasn't what Pete suggested, and Pete got real bent out of shape about it. That is the level of detail and control Pete wants, and has.

I made a thread a couple of weeks back, that I would like to see Pete stripped of his power, and just focus on being a head coach. It was not well received, but those that disagreed were in denial, more and more will see it my way. Just have to give it a little more time.

The fix is simple, and I feel if Paul were alive, the wheels would already be in motion.

-- Pete is just the head coach, similar to what happened with Holmgren in 2005.
-- New DC, preferably with great enough success to have been a HC. Zimmer, Fangio, etc.
With full autonomy, to build the defense of his liking, Pete still gets to sign off on the hire, but that's it.
-- John Schneider has full roster control and autonomy so he can be evaluated properly.

I agree that Pete should be HC only, but who's gonna demote him? Since Paul Allen passed there has been no real figurehead in office. Yes, his sister technically owns the team now, but I have a feeling she'd just keep Pete around to do the heavy lifting anyway. The only way I see that changing is if the Seahawks suddenly went 4-12 two or three seasons in a row, or Pete hangs it up.

I agree. They are a rudderless ship at the top (ownership). And that is going to be a problem going forward. Just have to hope for the best. That 5 year extension was asinine. 1yr would've sufficed for the oldest coach in the league. If enough fans get pissed off and start making noise, changes can be made, but more losing has to happen first. Hard to do with a Hall of Fame QB, who routinely carries dead bodies over the finish line.

Norton is all but getting fired imo, he is the fall guy for Pete's mess. But believe it or not, it won't fix much, if Pete is still heavily involved with the same structure, and his same failed processes that built and coached the worst defense in NFL history.

Is Pete still the guy that built and coached one of the best defenses in NFL History?

Lot of hand wringing going around about "who is to blame" for a 6-2 team that is underperforming on one side of the ball.

 

[Seahawk_Dan]

The buck stops with Pete. He is head of Football Operations.

-He can tell Schneider what to do if he wants. (Pete has final say.)

-He decides who gets to be a coach on this team, and who gets to stay as a coach on this team.

-He has final say on the 53.

-He is heavily involved with who they take early in the draft. (He isn't as involved later now because he has been out of college for so long, so he defers more to John on day 3 of the draft.)

-He is heavily involved in UFA, trades, and all aspects of the program. It is HIS program. Down to what the players have for lunch.

Pete told a story, back when he was with the Patriots, that ownership changed what the players were going to have for lunch. It wasn't what Pete suggested, and Pete got real bent out of shape about it. That is the level of detail and control Pete wants, and has.

I made a thread a couple of weeks back, that I would like to see Pete stripped of his power, and just focus on being a head coach. It was not well received, but those that disagreed were in denial, more and more will see it my way. Just have to give it a little more time.

The fix is simple, and I feel if Paul were alive, the wheels would already be in motion.

-- Pete is just the head coach, similar to what happened with Holmgren in 2005.
-- New DC, preferably with great enough success to have been a HC. Zimmer, Fangio, etc.
With full autonomy, to build the defense of his liking, Pete still gets to sign off on the hire, but that's it.
-- John Schneider has full roster control and autonomy so he can be evaluated properly.

I agree that Pete should be HC only, but who's gonna demote him? Since Paul Allen passed there has been no real figurehead in office. Yes, his sister technically owns the team now, but I have a feeling she'd just keep Pete around to do the heavy lifting anyway. The only way I see that changing is if the Seahawks suddenly went 4-12 two or three seasons in a row, or Pete hangs it up.

I agree. They are a rudderless ship at the top (ownership). And that is going to be a problem going forward. Just have to hope for the best. That 5 year extension was asinine. 1yr would've sufficed for the oldest coach in the league. If enough fans get pissed off and start making noise, changes can be made, but more losing has to happen first. Hard to do with a Hall of Fame QB, who routinely carries dead bodies over the finish line.

Norton is all but getting fired imo, he is the fall guy for Pete's mess. But believe it or not, it won't fix much, if Pete is still heavily involved with the same structure, and his same failed processes that built and coached the worst defense in NFL history.

Is Pete still the guy that built and coached one of the best defenses in NFL History?

Lot of hand wringing going around about "who is to blame" for a 6-2 team that is underperforming on one side of the ball.

The counter argument is, predictably, the Seahawks are 6-2. They are first in the NFC West. These conversations are unnecessarily negative and we should be grateful that the Seahawks aren’t the Jets or the Jaguars.

It’s such a tepid counter. We’re witnessing one of the all-time great quarterback careers. This is a franchise that has raised expectations to where you can dream about Championships. That is the goal — every year — and it’s not unrealistic with Russell Wilson behind center.

The following was quote from Robert Stanton's Seahawks blog, I know a lot around here are familiar with him around here. I suggest you give his latest article a read.

Rob has always stood by Carroll and found a lot of criticism of him laughable. However even he sees the obvious, glaring problems with the team.

 

[Uncle Si]

I agree that Pete should be HC only, but who's gonna demote him? Since Paul Allen passed there has been no real figurehead in office. Yes, his sister technically owns the team now, but I have a feeling she'd just keep Pete around to do the heavy lifting anyway. The only way I see that changing is if the Seahawks suddenly went 4-12 two or three seasons in a row, or Pete hangs it up.

I agree. They are a rudderless ship at the top (ownership). And that is going to be a problem going forward. Just have to hope for the best. That 5 year extension was asinine. 1yr would've sufficed for the oldest coach in the league. If enough fans get pissed off and start making noise, changes can be made, but more losing has to happen first. Hard to do with a Hall of Fame QB, who routinely carries dead bodies over the finish line.

Norton is all but getting fired imo, he is the fall guy for Pete's mess. But believe it or not, it won't fix much, if Pete is still heavily involved with the same structure, and his same failed processes that built and coached the worst defense in NFL history.

Is Pete still the guy that built and coached one of the best defenses in NFL History?

Lot of hand wringing going around about "who is to blame" for a 6-2 team that is underperforming on one side of the ball.

The counter argument is, predictably, the Seahawks are 6-2. They are first in the NFC West. These conversations are unnecessarily negative and we should be grateful that the Seahawks aren’t the Jets or the Jaguars.

It’s such a tepid counter. We’re witnessing one of the all-time great quarterback careers. This is a franchise that has raised expectations to where you can dream about Championships. That is the goal — every year — and it’s not unrealistic with Russell Wilson behind center.

The following was quote from Robert Stanton's Seahawks blog, I know a lot around here are familiar with him around here. I suggest you give his latest article a read.

Rob has always stood by Carroll and found a lot of criticism of him laughable. However even he sees the obvious, glaring problems with the team.

Ive read it, and been reading Rob's stuff for ages. He was a contributor here long ago.

It's not a "counter" tepid or otherwise. No one is arguing the defense is bad. It's the notion that PC is not the person to fix it that I was commenting on.

If the suggestion is PC is no longer up to setting up this team's defense to succeed, given how well he has done it in the past, than the conclusion is PC is no longer a worthy HC either.

If that's where people think we are, so be it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I like Stanton's last sentence, just the fact that we now EXPECT SB runs every year should be an endorsement of what Pete's built here.

Doesn't mean Pete should be immune to criticism when warranted. But to think he's the problem is ludicrous, he's the reason we've had the greatest sustained success in franchise history.

 

[Own The West]

I agree with Largent. I like winning. I like always being competitive.

A few years ago we had a dominant defense and our offense sucked. A bunch of people complained and cried, “Fire Pete!” Then we won the Superbowl.

Now we have the best Offense in the league and our defense sucks. Complain if it brings you joy, but also keep in mind it might be be another 38 years after Pete leaves that we get another coach capable of getting us a championship.

 

[kf3339]

I've said this on other threads, but PC is responsible for every aspect of this team. Every decision is his and his alone.

There is no player that is brought onto this team unless he agrees. Draft, FA, Trade, ect. is all on him. The same with coaches. He calls the shots.

The problem though is that he took this job with full autonomy. No one questions his decisions. No one calls him out on anything football related. The only person that could make a change unfortunately died two years ago. PA owned the team. Now his estate owns the team until it's sold. Jody Allen is just a caretaker.

Any real change will take place when this team is sold to a buyer who will want to make their own mark on the franchise. In that scenario, I don't see PC staying at all. I wouldn't keep him either. Not that he hasn't brought a level of success to this franchise. He has.

But it's also pretty obvious that his weaknesses are covered up and never really dealt with to fix the issues.

A new owner is what this franchise needs right now. Hopefully, one who has a true passion for football and wants to create his own successes.

 

[chris98251]

I've said this on other threads, but PC is responsible for every aspect of this team. Every decision is his and his alone.

There is no player that is brought onto this team unless he agrees. Draft, FA, Trade, ect. is all on him. The same with coaches. He calls the shots.

The problem though is that he took this job with full autonomy. No one questions his decisions. No one calls him out on anything football related. The only person that could make a change unfortunately died two years ago. PA owned the team. Now his estate owns the team until it's sold. Jody Allen is just a caretaker.

Any real change will take place when this team is sold to a buyer who will want to make their own mark on the franchise. In that scenario, I don't see PC staying at all. I wouldn't keep him either. Not that he hasn't brought a level of success to this franchise. He has.

But it's also pretty obvious that his weaknesses are covered up and never really dealt with to fix the issues.

A new owner is what this franchise needs right now. Hopefully, one who has a true passion for football and wants to create his own successes.

Um like Ken Behring.............

He wanted the attention of success so bad he cut everyone from the team, fired coaches and GM's and put his kids in Charge of stuff so he didn't have to share any credit, why that sounds familiar doesn't it......

 

[xray]

I've said this on other threads, but PC is responsible for every aspect of this team. Every decision is his and his alone.

There is no player that is brought onto this team unless he agrees. Draft, FA, Trade, ect. is all on him. The same with coaches. He calls the shots.

The problem though is that he took this job with full autonomy. No one questions his decisions. No one calls him out on anything football related. The only person that could make a change unfortunately died two years ago. PA owned the team. Now his estate owns the team until it's sold. Jody Allen is just a caretaker.

Any real change will take place when this team is sold to a buyer who will want to make their own mark on the franchise. In that scenario, I don't see PC staying at all. I wouldn't keep him either. Not that he hasn't brought a level of success to this franchise. He has.

But it's also pretty obvious that his weaknesses are covered up and never really dealt with to fix the issues.

A new owner is what this franchise needs right now. Hopefully, one who has a true passion for football and wants to create his own successes.

^^
OMG ...you're not actually saying that Jody Allen needs to go ? WTF, she just gave Carroll a lifetime extension . She knows her chit .

 

[kf3339]

I've said this on other threads, but PC is responsible for every aspect of this team. Every decision is his and his alone.

There is no player that is brought onto this team unless he agrees. Draft, FA, Trade, ect. is all on him. The same with coaches. He calls the shots.

The problem though is that he took this job with full autonomy. No one questions his decisions. No one calls him out on anything football related. The only person that could make a change unfortunately died two years ago. PA owned the team. Now his estate owns the team until it's sold. Jody Allen is just a caretaker.

Any real change will take place when this team is sold to a buyer who will want to make their own mark on the franchise. In that scenario, I don't see PC staying at all. I wouldn't keep him either. Not that he hasn't brought a level of success to this franchise. He has.

But it's also pretty obvious that his weaknesses are covered up and never really dealt with to fix the issues.

A new owner is what this franchise needs right now. Hopefully, one who has a true passion for football and wants to create his own successes.

Um like Ken Behring.............

He wanted the attention of success so bad he cut everyone from the team, fired coaches and GM's and put his kids in Charge of stuff so he didn't have to share any credit, why that sounds familiar doesn't it......[/quot

That's not even close to my point at all. Behring was an idiot. I wouldn't put that mark on every other passionate owner in football. Most just have a clear understanding of the game.

PA was a basketball junkie. Not football. That's just a fact. But he's gone and JA hasn't a clue.

 

[diver110]

I have always loved the idea that the son of a boxer got to coach football. I think the real problem is not coaching, but talent. Who can sack the QB?

 

[chris98251]

I've said this on other threads, but PC is responsible for every aspect of this team. Every decision is his and his alone.

There is no player that is brought onto this team unless he agrees. Draft, FA, Trade, ect. is all on him. The same with coaches. He calls the shots.

The problem though is that he took this job with full autonomy. No one questions his decisions. No one calls him out on anything football related. The only person that could make a change unfortunately died two years ago. PA owned the team. Now his estate owns the team until it's sold. Jody Allen is just a caretaker.

Any real change will take place when this team is sold to a buyer who will want to make their own mark on the franchise. In that scenario, I don't see PC staying at all. I wouldn't keep him either. Not that he hasn't brought a level of success to this franchise. He has.

But it's also pretty obvious that his weaknesses are covered up and never really dealt with to fix the issues.

A new owner is what this franchise needs right now. Hopefully, one who has a true passion for football and wants to create his own successes.

Um like Ken Behring.............

He wanted the attention of success so bad he cut everyone from the team, fired coaches and GM's and put his kids in Charge of stuff so he didn't have to share any credit, why that sounds familiar doesn't it......[/quot

That's not even close to my point at all. Behring was an idiot. I wouldn't put that mark on every other passionate owner in football. Most just have a clear understanding of the game.

PA was a basketball junkie. Not football. That's just a fact. But he's gone and JA hasn't a clue.

Ok Dan Snyder then they don't do a Football IQ test for Owners, they do credit checks and Bank accounts and net worth.

Why Bidwell stepped back finally in Arizona also and finally succumbed to having football people running a lot of the operation as well, yes he has more money in Arizona then St Louis but he was a Joke for years as well.

Lets not even Talk about Jerry, he was all about Jimmy Johnson and could not stand he got credit.

 

[Fade]

Some of you guys need to learn how to read, or stop with the patheticstrawman. I didn't say fire Pete. Just bump him down to 2005 Holmgren status. Pete is currently 1998 Holmgren status. Wilson is masking how truly bad there issues are. I don't need to see the Seahawks go 6-10 to realize this, it is obvious. Again, hard to do anyway when the QB is putting up record breaking numbers and is one of the all time greats.

 

[kf3339]

Some of you guys need to learn how to read, or stop with the patheticstrawman. I didn't say fire Pete. Just bump him down to 2005 Holmgren status. Pete is currently 1998 Holmgren status. Wilson is masking how truly bad there issues are. I don't need to see the Seahawks go 6-10 to realize this, it is obvious. Again, hard to do anyway when the QB is putting up record breaking numbers and is one of the all time greats.

PC won't accept that option. He wanted full control, or wouldn't have came here at all. If that option was forced, he would quit.