How do we fix the run defense?

[sutz]

I am guessing that if our offense could score more than 7 points in the first half, the teams we play would be less patient running. Just a guess.

:13: This. Score more points and they won't run as often. :229031_shrug:

 

[Largent80]

29 points in the first quarter combined for 9 games.

Fix that and everything changes.

 

[Hawkfish]

I am guessing that if our offense could score more than 7 points in the first half, the teams we play would be less patient running. Just a guess.

:13: This. Score more points and they won't run as often. :229031_shrug:

Agree!

 

[vin.couve12]

This has gotten out of control. Frankly, I don't even know why I'm addressing this, but your witch hunt is absurd. Even in video evidence people are drawing the wrong conclusions. The entire LOS has large holes and when LBs have OL pushing DL into their chest their angle changes inevitably. The lack of Mebane has really hurt this defense. McDonald can play on nickel downs and some run downs, but he's not even close to an every day NT/1 tech like we've been using him as. Tony McDaniel's height has also hurt him in getting blown off the ball back into the LBs. The LBs are having to try to play either side of the DL and OL that are pushed back into them.

Anyone who has played at the LOS knows this. The problem is that the vast majority of you haven't and literally do not understand what you're even saying. If the run is wide, and you have an OL who's pushed the DL directly into your path you have a choice of trying to undercut to cut off the run shallow or you have a choice to go around wide and concede yardage to the RB trying to head him off. If you have a double teamed DL pushed back 4 yards directly in your path on a dive you have a choice to play either side in your gap and hope the RB takes that gap or you try to put your feet in the ground to try and stop the momentum of 2 OL pushing a DL right at you, which is roughly a 1000 pounds, and then take on the RB while you're flat footed and he's running full speed.

Wagner and KJ were guilty of a few things each, but this asinine idea has become the institution around here and really it's nothing more than a herd mentality while you ignore the play of our DTs, the McDs. We have missed Mebane very badly. We've also been kicked out at the edges a lot. Even Clem has been guilty of that. We're also seeing teams downblock on Red to get the edge on off tackle.

 

[DavidSeven]

This has gotten out of control. Frankly, I don't even know why I'm addressing this, but your witch hunt is absurd. Even in video evidence people are drawing the wrong conclusions. The entire LOS has large holes and when LBs have OL pushing DL into their chest their angle changes inevitably. The lack of Mebane has really hurt this defense. McDonald can play on nickel downs and some run downs, but he's not even close to an every day NT/1 tech like we've been using him as. Tony McDaniel's height has also hurt him in getting blown off the ball back into the LBs. The LBs are having to try to play either side of the DL and OL that are pushed back into them.

Anyone who has played at the LOS knows this. The problem is that the vast majority of you haven't and literally do not understand what you're even saying. If the run is wide, and you have an OL who's pushed the DL directly into your path you have a choice of trying to undercut to cut off the run shallow or you have a choice to go around wide and concede yardage to the RB trying to head him off. If you have a double teamed DL pushed back 4 yards directly in your path on a dive you have a choice to play either side in your gap and hope the RB takes that gap or you try to put your feet in the ground to try and stop the momentum of 2 OL pushing a DL right at you, which is roughly a 1000 pounds, and then take on the RB while you're flat footed and he's running full speed.

Wagner and KJ were guilty of a few things each, but this asinine idea has become the institution around here and really it's nothing more than a herd mentality while you ignore the play of our DTs, the McDs. We have missed Mebane very badly. We've also been kicked out at the edges a lot. Even Clem has been guilty of that. We're also seeing teams downblock on Red to get the edge on off tackle.

Good post.

 

[Largent80]

Which assinine idea are you referring too?

 

[HunnyBadger]

I think the defense is doing fine. Our main issue is the offense. When your offense is going 3 and out (or fumbling, or throwing interceptions) with regularity, your defense is going to be put in a bad position.

On the Rams game, I think we need to give Zac Stacey some credit, he looks like a really good back that the Rams found in late rounds. It was a good strategy by the Rams to run it down our throats when they had a backup QB and their defense was easily getting the ball back for their offense.

On the Bucs game, we gave up way too big of a lead early (I give Glennon some credit). Their playcalling was really good...it seemed that each time we tried to cue in on the run, they had a great passing play, and vice versa.

In the end, our defense held up, but just barely. Our offense needs to put our defense in a better position.

 

[DavidSeven]

Which assinine idea are you referring too?

A lot of people seem to be trying to assign blame to a single linebacker. As if one player's presence is responsible for 400 rushing yards in two games. That's too simplistic a view, especially when you're talking about extremely talented players who have been effective vs. the run in the past. I think that's what he's referring to.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Which assinine idea are you referring too?

A lot of people seem to be trying to assign blame to a single linebacker. As if one player's presence is responsible for 400 rushing yards in two games. That's too simplistic a view, especially when you're talking about extremely talented players who have been effective vs. the run in the past. I think that's what he's referring to.

I just looked through this entire thread, and ONE person said "I blame Wagner." Other than that lot's of blame went around to most of the players on the front seven. So not sure where you see "a lot of people" blaming one LB.

Which is correct, stopping the run is a group effort. Michael Bennett was just interviewed on KJR, and he said the main problem is people getting out of position and not making the tackle when they have the chance. So there's your answer.

1. Stay in your correct assignment
2. Make the play

 

[scutterhawk]

I don't totally agree with the lack of Offensive TOP as being a major factor, and the reason that I don't, is because IF the Seahawks Defense don't miss their assignments, they would return the favor to the adversary, and keep them to quick 3 & outs, thus, NOT putting themselves out there for longer stints, and lose the TOP battles.
I was even disappointed with a couple of plays by Thomas, because he tried to hit the ball carrier to stop the forward progress/jar the ball loose, instead of wrapping them up with the tackle, and maybe get some help by holding the runner up until help arrives.
It wasn't just Thomas doing this, but several other Seahawks 'D' players were doing it too.
I don't think that this is characteristic of how they normally play, but in the last two games, those missed assignments, and missed tackles, has come to bite them in the butt.
Obviously you'd like to keep the Defense fresh by keeping your Offense on the field, but if your running game is suffering, and your O-line is anemic or whiffing to protecting your Quarterback, you're not going to win the TOP.
Some of this is attributed to Bevel not calling for more creative run plays in the first half (especially the first quarter), to keep the opposing Defenses honest.
Like the old saying goes, "The Run Sets Up The Pass, and The Pass Sets Up The Run" > BALLANCE

 

[ivotuk]

Which assinine idea are you referring too?

A lot of people seem to be trying to assign blame to a single linebacker. As if one player's presence is responsible for 400 rushing yards in two games. That's too simplistic a view, especially when you're talking about extremely talented players who have been effective vs. the run in the past. I think that's what he's referring to.

I just looked through this entire thread, and ONE person said "I blame Wagner." Other than that lot's of blame went around to most of the players on the front seven. So not sure where you see "a lot of people" blaming one LB.

Which is correct, stopping the run is a group effort. Michael Bennett was just interviewed on KJR, and he said the main problem is people getting out of position and not making the tackle when they have the chance. So there's your answer.

1. Stay in your correct assignment
2. Make the play

 

[ivotuk]

Which assinine idea are you referring too?

A lot of people seem to be trying to assign blame to a single linebacker. As if one player's presence is responsible for 400 rushing yards in two games. That's too simplistic a view, especially when you're talking about extremely talented players who have been effective vs. the run in the past. I think that's what he's referring to.

I just looked through this entire thread, and ONE person said "I blame Wagner." Other than that lot's of blame went around to most of the players on the front seven. So not sure where you see "a lot of people" blaming one LB.

Which is correct, stopping the run is a group effort. Michael Bennett was just interviewed on KJR, and he said the main problem is people getting out of position and not making the tackle when they have the chance. So there's your answer.

1. Stay in your correct assignment
2. Make the play

You are being way too critical and literal. Always people looking to prove someone else's point wrong, and so bent on proving them wrong that they forget to read the post, and ultimately end up looking foolish.

He said "A lot of people seem to be trying to assign blame to a single linebacker" YOU are the one that said Wagner. DavidSeven was being more general in his description, and there have been multiple threads with people trying to assign the blame a narrow scope.

For once I wish people would stop trying to prove themselves by proving others wrong and just add to the conversation. It's ridiculous. So ridiculous that many posts are now having to start with stupid disclaimers like you see on TV. How did we get there?

"Do not try this at home." "I am not claiming to be an expert." Nobody should have to put caveats in their posts, but the reason they have to is because so many people open a thread ready to jump on any tiny little inconsistency they find. So ready that they stop reading the post as soon as they have found something that they think they can discredit. Very boorish.

 

[tom sawyer]

Rattle the QB, glue to the receivers, stuff the middle!!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

"Do not try this at home." "I am not claiming to be an expert." Nobody should have to put caveats in their posts, but the reason they have to is because so many people open a thread ready to jump on any tiny little inconsistency they find. So ready that they stop reading the post as soon as they have found something that they think they can discredit. Very boorish.

Part of making a valid point is to be as accurate as possible. People who over exaggerate in order to make their point seem more valid isn't a good way to have a healthy discussion, because it's discussing under false pretenses.

Moral of the Story: If you're going to get up on your soapbox and chastise an entire forum for something, you better bring at least some modicum of accuracy. So yes saying things like "a lot of people" does matter, because the FACT is "a lot" to everyone not insane is more than one person.

 

[tom sawyer]

Rattle the QB, glue to the receivers, stuff the middle!!

Wait... what was the question?

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I wasn't aware there was any lack of Mebane.

 

[hawks4thewin]

Its not broke!
Sky is falling... sky is falling

 

[kidhawk]

I wasn't aware there was any lack of Mebane.

I think I read on one of the local newspaper blogs that Mebane was in on less than half of the defensive snaps against Tampa. I don't know how much he's in historically, but that did strike me as a little low. I know pete is rotating our Dline alot to keep everyone fresh, but you have to wonder if it has any affect on players not getting into a rhythm of the game. Until I saw that stat, I assumed Mebane was out there for 70%+ of the snaps

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Week 9	49%
Week 8	64%
Week 7	44%
Week 6	38%
Week 5	46%
Week 4	60%
Week 3	45%
Week 2	46%
Week 1	67%

[tdo=11]Mebane's Snap Count %[/tdo]

Averaging 52% this year. It's down from 67% last year, but our run D was fine up until the last two weeks. Don't see any trend right on the surface that would show Mebane's absence as a big problem, unless it's just down to the Bucs' O-line being talented.

 

[DavidSeven]

"Do not try this at home." "I am not claiming to be an expert." Nobody should have to put caveats in their posts, but the reason they have to is because so many people open a thread ready to jump on any tiny little inconsistency they find. So ready that they stop reading the post as soon as they have found something that they think they can discredit. Very boorish.

Part of making a valid point is to be as accurate as possible. People who over exaggerate in order to make their point seem more valid isn't a good way to have a healthy discussion, because it's discussing under false pretenses.

Moral of the Story: If you're going to get up on your soapbox and chastise an entire forum for something, you better bring at least some modicum of accuracy. So yes saying things like "a lot of people" does matter, because the FACT is "a lot" to everyone not insane is more than one person.

Hm. No where did I narrow the scope of my comment to any specific player, this thread, or .NET. Who's the one being inaccurate in their assessment of people's opinions?

If you don't think people have been putting the blame on specific individuals on sports radio, Twitter, blogs and other threads on this forum since Sunday... well, I'm not going out of my way to prove it you.