Geno Smith the headcase

Ozzy

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Have you gone through the other QBs INTs and counted how many were bad timing mistakes and put that against your number of Geno's bad timing mistakes? Or are you assuming no other QBs make poorly timed mistakes at any meaningful rate?
In what world did I or anyone state no other QBs have poorly times mistakes? He does lead the league in ints in the red zone though. Did you know that or bother to look it up before you assume no one else is?

Again Geno is a good QB who this year has had an issue with his mistakes being weird ones for a 12 year vet. Thats a fact and doesn’t make someone a hater for stating it. Hes also played well at times too like the GWD against the Niners.
 

SeaWolv

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Have a question for you SeaWolv...Geno is asking for an extension, would you agree to paying him Goff kinda money?

Not trying to argue, just a question that I think needs answering.
Goff just got a $212M extension that will pay him $53M. No way I'm giving Geno that kind of money. Geno is in year 2 of a 3 year deal for $75M. I don't think he's made a case for a raise but if JS decided otherwise I would hope it's not more than $35M/yr and no more than 2 years. If he wants more salary and JS thinks it's warranted then I'd want to reduce the term due to his age. Then I'd get moving on a succession plan pronto if Howell isn't it. If Howell is the heir apparent then I'd flat out say no to a new contract.
 

SeaWolv

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They just kept 3 teams in a row to low scores and the offense didn’t improve at all, if anything it got worse. This argument keeps getting stated as if it’s a major reason for Geno’s struggles and i don’t buy it.
Lucas and Oluwatimi were inserted into the lineup in week 10 so the current starting OLine has only been in place since the Niners game. In the last 2 games they've gone up against the #6 defense (DVOA) and the #12 defense. They won both games after a 2 game skid. They're not going to hang a 30 burger on the Niners or the Cards.

These position groups that you would expect to be set in training camp and barring injury remain the same has not been the case with the Hawks. They're tinkering with both the offense and defense on the fly. So naturally things are going to change and they have. They're improving and just took control of the division.

You also keep mentioning that a 12 year vet shouldn't throw bad picks but that happens all over the league, even Goff has thrown bad picks this year.
 
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Ozzy

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Lucas and Oluwatimi were inserted into the lineup in week 10 so the current starting OLine has only been in place since the Niners game. In the last 2 games they've gone up against the #6 defense (DVOA) and the #12 defense. They won both games after a 2 game skid. They're not going to hang a 30 burger on the Niners or the cards.

These position groups that you would expect to be set in training camp and barring injury remain the same has not been the case with the Hawks. They're tinkering with both the offense and defense on the fly. So naturally things are going to change and they have. They're improving and just took control of the division.

You also keep mentioning that a 12 year vet shouldn't throw bad picks but that happens all over the league, even Goff has thrown bad picks this y

No not everyone in the league has 4 picks in the red zone. Goff has not made as many terrible decisions on the worst part of the field as Geno, he just hasn't and most of the good ones don't.

What are you arguing? If you have a massive problem with me grading Geno in the 10-20 range then were do you have him? I have to assume you have him 5-10 range? Yeah not going to agree, he's not top 10 for me.

Offensive line issues are a league wide issue, so its unfair to act like this is a massive hurdle that only a couple of guys like Geno are dealing with. Geno also has much better weapons to help him and his bad line that most other QB's don't have yet it keeps getting ignored by the pro-Geno crowd for obvious reasons. He has 12 TDs and 12 picks. He needs to play better regardless of the line, the defense or anything else and I would bet money he would agree.

But I agree on one point. The defense has played massively better and I think the line is trending in that direction too. If you have one of the best set of weapons in the league you don't need a great line and should be fine with even a lower middle of the pack line in the 20 range because guys like DK, JSN, Walker, Lockett etc all help you out. I think they can get there and if they do Geno should get better too.

12th ranked defense and we score 16 points with the defense giving you good field position because they played incredibly? Come on when you say things like that if feels like you're tilting the conversation in an attempt to protect Geno at all costs. 6th ranked defense? I'm good with a tough low scoring game against that but 12th? lol nope.
 

Ostatehawk

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Fans micro-analyze their own teams player's every move, while judging the rest of the league from highlight clips and lists pumped out by talking heads. They are incapable of applying a consistent standard to both sets of players. Hence every team's forums having the exact same arguments every single week of every single season. It's more predictable than the Jags being terrible
Well - that and the Jets organization being a total clown show.
 

flv2

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The threads about Kyler Murray over at the AZ cards forum that are almost exactly like the threads we see here about Geno.

Would you trade Kyler for Geno straight up? The little fella has some upside for sure - but I don't think he is any better than Geno - at least for our team.
Murray is being paid almost $39M this season and he's due $75M over the next 2 seasons, (most of which will be fully guaranteed before the 2025 season begins). Murray, 'the player', would be a big upgrade over Smith but his contract has negative trade value.
 

rigelian

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Murray is being paid almost $39M this season and he's due $75M over the next 2 seasons, (most of which will be fully guaranteed before the 2025 season begins). Murray, 'the player', would be a big upgrade over Smith but his contract has negative trade value.
Murray might be an upgrade but I think I disagree with him being a "big" upgrade. In fact I think that Murray is likely to create similar frustrations that Geno creates.
 

flv2

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Murray might be an upgrade but I think I disagree with him being a "big" upgrade. In fact I think that Murray is likely to create similar frustrations that Geno creates.
Both players generate wide ranges of opinions. I think Smith is currently worth $27M per season and Murray is worth $33M per season. I can understand why people would disagree. Pro-football-reference has 17 game averages for comparisons, which are a useful tool.
 

SeaWolv

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No not everyone in the league has 4 picks in the red zone. Goff has not made as many terrible decisions on the worst part of the field as Geno, he just hasn't and most of the good ones don't.

What are you arguing? If you have a massive problem with me grading Geno in the 10-20 range then were do you have him? I have to assume you have him 5-10 range? Yeah not going to agree, he's not top 10 for me.

Offensive line issues are a league wide issue, so its unfair to act like this is a massive hurdle that only a couple of guys like Geno are dealing with. Geno also has much better weapons to help him and his bad line that most other QB's don't have yet it keeps getting ignored by the pro-Geno crowd for obvious reasons. He has 12 TDs and 12 picks. He needs to play better regardless of the line, the defense or anything else and I would bet money he would agree.

But I agree on one point. The defense has played massively better and I think the line is trending in that direction too. If you have one of the best set of weapons in the league you don't need a great line and should be fine with even a lower middle of the pack line in the 20 range because guys like DK, JSN, Walker, Lockett etc all help you out. I think they can get there and if they do Geno should get better too.

12th ranked defense and we score 16 points with the defense giving you good field position because they played incredibly? Come on when you say things like that if feels like you're tilting the conversation in an attempt to protect Geno at all costs. 6th ranked defense? I'm good with a tough low scoring game against that but 12th? lol nope.
Look, all I'm saying is Geno's not that bad. I'm not saying he's top 10. As I've said all along, he's 10-15 range (see post history). I'm hearing a lot of Geno hate on here and I think some of it is deserved but most of it isn't. Is Geno better than Goff? No. But he's not a lot worse. Goff doesn't have OLine issues, Geno does, and he has one of the BEST receivers in the league in St. Brown. DK is good but he's not Aman-Ra.

I'm not saying that all the offensive issues are due to OLine, but having one of the worst lines in the league is not something that most of the top QBs are dealing with. Geno is. Thanks to the return of Lucas and the promotion of Oluwatimi there's hope. JSN has stepped his game up and it looks like DK may need to as well. The run game is terrible which drags other things down and again that's an OLine issue. OLine is the key to both aspects of the offense working. If these areas don't continue to improve then Grubb and the line need to be held accountable. You can say well the OLine didn't force Geno to make those bad throws and that may be true but it's also possible that he's not being given the time to make the best throw and that IS the OLine AND the receivers.

Bottom line, Geno is a short term solution to give JS time to find the QBotF. I think he's doing fine and he and the rest of the offense need to step up their efforts just as the defense has.

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/11/07/geno-smith-isnt-blame-seahawks-offensive-struggles/

Smith has been pressured on a league-high 153 dropbacks this season, amounting to a staggering 39.6 percent pressure rate. Perhaps more concerning is that 93 of these pressures came from initial blocks that eventually collapsed. This indicates that Seattle’s offensive line can’t maintain protection. With the line consistently breaking down, Smith is under relentless pressure. It’s led to poor results even from a quarterback who normally performs well with a clean pocket.
 

Ozzy

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Look, all I'm saying is Geno's not that bad. I'm not saying he's top 10. As I've said all along, he's 10-15 range (see post history). I'm hearing a lot of Geno hate on here and I think some of it is deserved but most of it isn't. Is Geno better than Goff? No. But he's not a lot worse. Goff doesn't have OLine issues, Geno does, and he has one of the BEST receivers in the league in St. Brown. DK is good but he's not Aman-Ra.

I'm not saying that all the offensive issues are due to OLine, but having one of the worst lines in the league is not something that most of the top QBs are dealing with. Geno is. Thanks to the return of Lucas and the promotion of Oluwatimi there's hope. JSN has stepped his game up and it looks like DK may need to as well. The run game is terrible which drags other things down and again that's an OLine issue. OLine is the key to both aspects of the offense working. If these areas don't continue to improve then Grubb and the line need to be held accountable. You can say well the OLine didn't force Geno to make those bad throws and that may be true but it's also possible that he's not being given the time to make the best throw and that IS the OLine AND the receivers.

Bottom line, Geno is a short term solution to give JS time to find the QBotF. I think he's doing fine and he and the rest of the offense need to step up their efforts just as the defense has.
This is a fair and reasonable post. I don't see it exactly like you but we're also probably closer on our analysis than we think too.
 

toffee

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I am a Geno fanboy and one of the first, if not the first, to support him as our starting quarterback after Wilson was traded. So, speaking as a Geno fanboy, I think Geno is more mistake-prone this season. It could be a new system, the OL, etc., or he regressed some. I don't know which one—maybe all of them?

But I do think Geno is making business decisions more often than not about running the ball or taking that extra risk. He is a 35-year-old (or is it 34?) quarterback looking for his last long-term contract, and getting hurt is something to be avoided at all costs.
 

IndyHawk

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I am a Geno fanboy and one of the first, if not the first, to support him as our starting quarterback after Wilson was traded. So, speaking as a Geno fanboy, I think Geno is more mistake-prone this season. It could be a new system, the OL, etc., or he regressed some. I don't know which one—maybe all of them?

But I do think Geno is making business decisions more often than not about running the ball or taking that extra risk. He is a 35-year-old (or is it 34?) quarterback looking for his last long-term contract, and getting hurt is something to be avoided at all costs.
I think the man in the booth doing "Peteball" in reverse is hurting Geno
more than anything..
The D knows it's pass pass and a token run that based on personal
they already know is coming..
Imagine this: Grubb is actually worse than Waldron was!
 
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sutz

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On Brock and Salk this morning they said that Geno is on a pace to meet two accelerator clauses in his contract that would push his '25 salary from $25 mill to over $30 mill. ;)
 

keasley45

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I am a Geno fanboy and one of the first, if not the first, to support him as our starting quarterback after Wilson was traded. So, speaking as a Geno fanboy, I think Geno is more mistake-prone this season. It could be a new system, the OL, etc., or he regressed some. I don't know which one—maybe all of them?

But I do think Geno is making business decisions more often than not about running the ball or taking that extra risk. He is a 35-year-old (or is it 34?) quarterback looking for his last long-term contract, and getting hurt is something to be avoided at all costs.

The problem with that hyothesis is that Geno is putting himself at far greater risk standing in the pocket or just backpedaling waiting for the open guy to be there and getting clobbered than if he would just escape left or right and either throw from the flat or pick up a few yards and run outbof bounds.

As far as regression- i think DKs reaction in the first game agausnt the 9ers where he basically cursed Grubb asking for more attacking plays was and is telling.

Grubb hasnt shown the ability to script a solid run game. And so, the pass game that looked to be explosive, is now trying to fabricate a run game by hitting underneath routes and shallow wrs and at best middle zone beating routes and outs.. Thats largely most of what it is now.

Likewise, Huff and Grubb are still struggling to get the linemen to grasp whatever blocking concept they require to run their scheme at this level. That protection isnt holding up enough to hit the explosive plays they have dialed up.

The result is that our passing game is bottled up between the LOS and abiut 15 yards deep. With team increasingky adspting to the bread and butter stuff we are running in tbose areas.

Ive watched some All 22 and focused specifically on sacks ( i think they have been far more damaging to our w/l probability than Geno's INTs) and the telling thing is that a good number of them come when the Offense is trying to force the deep ball as an alternate to the methodical, 5, 10 / 12 yard pass plays we have come to live off of over the last 6 weeks. Sometimes the blitz just gets to Geno and there's nowhere to go. But often you can see them pick the spot for the deep ball and go all in on it, only for the blocking to fail because we didnt anticipate a rush and the whole thing blows up.

I think the entire unit and Grubb are picking the wrong spots to hit the explosives - i am not talking about underneath screens that go 50, but passes that travel 30 or 40+ yards in the air.

Mabdonald admitted as much this week when he said theyve tried to hit some stuff to DK to get him involved and its nit worked.

And therein lies the frustration.

The playcalling doenst seem to follow a logic based on the flow of the game and setting up the defense, whether from run to pass or from shallow pass to deep. Its all very random.

We will pass on 4 straight downs and then its like we remember we need to run, so we send Charbs up the gut, left or Walker off tackle right. Or, we will be in 3rd and 3, remeber that Dk hasnt been involved and decide that THATS the moment to take the shot 50 yards down field and play ourselves into a sack.

Watxhing the seahaws offense is like watching ME play madden

What we dint know is whether Geno is selcting those shots from the options given or whether its Grubb.

I half wish they would put the kabash of Geno audibling to wide from the selcted play and see how much of the issue is Grubb being inexperienced vs Geno picking the wrong option from the plays he is given to select from.
 

toffee

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The problem with that hyothesis is that Geno is putting himself at far greater risk standing in the pocket or just backpedaling waiting for the open guy to be there and getting clobbered than if he would just escape left or right and either throw from the flat or pick up a few yards and run outbof bounds.

As far as regression- i think DKs reaction in the first game agausnt the 9ers where he basically cursed Grubb asking for more attacking plays was and is telling.

Grubb hasnt shown the ability to script a solid run game. And so, the pass game that looked to be explosive, is now trying to fabricate a run game by hitting underneath routes and shallow wrs and at best middle zone beating routes and outs.. Thats largely most of what it is now.

Likewise, Huff and Grubb are still struggling to get the linemen to grasp whatever blocking concept they require to run their scheme at this level. That protection isnt holding up enough to hit the explosive plays they have dialed up.

The result is that our passing game is bottled up between the LOS and abiut 15 yards deep. With team increasingky adspting to the bread and butter stuff we are running in tbose areas.

Ive watched some All 22 and focused specifically on sacks ( i think they have been far more damaging to our w/l probability than Geno's INTs) and the telling thing is that a good number of them come when the Offense is trying to force the deep ball as an alternate to the methodical, 5, 10 / 12 yard pass plays we have come to live off of over the last 6 weeks. Sometimes the blitz just gets to Geno and there's nowhere to go. But often you can see them pick the spot for the deep ball and go all in on it, only for the blocking to fail because we didnt anticipate a rush and the whole thing blows up.

I think the entire unit and Grubb are picking the wrong spots to hit the explosives - i am not talking about underneath screens that go 50, but passes that travel 30 or 40+ yards in the air.

Mabdonald admitted as much this week when he said theyve tried to hit some stuff to DK to get him involved and its nit worked.

And therein lies the frustration.

The playcalling doenst seem to follow a logic based on the flow of the game and setting up the defense, whether from run to pass or from shallow pass to deep. Its all very random.

We will pass on 4 straight downs and then its like we remember we need to run, so we send Charbs up the gut, left or Walker off tackle right. Or, we will be in 3rd and 3, remeber that Dk hasnt been involved and decide that THATS the moment to take the shot 50 yards down field and play ourselves into a sack.

Watxhing the seahaws offense is like watching ME play madden

What we dint know is whether Geno is selcting those shots from the options given or whether its Grubb.

I half wish they would put the kabash of Geno audibling to wide from the selcted play and see how much of the issue is Grubb being inexperienced vs Geno picking the wrong option from the plays he is given to select from.
Thx for the analysis, good read. I have been calling to replace Grubb and questioned who hired Grubb. Our offense clearly struggled some under grubb.
 

SoulfishHawk

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The problem with that hyothesis is that Geno is putting himself at far greater risk standing in the pocket or just backpedaling waiting for the open guy to be there and getting clobbered than if he would just escape left or right and either throw from the flat or pick up a few yards and run outbof bounds.

As far as regression- i think DKs reaction in the first game agausnt the 9ers where he basically cursed Grubb asking for more attacking plays was and is telling.

Grubb hasnt shown the ability to script a solid run game. And so, the pass game that looked to be explosive, is now trying to fabricate a run game by hitting underneath routes and shallow wrs and at best middle zone beating routes and outs.. Thats largely most of what it is now.

Likewise, Huff and Grubb are still struggling to get the linemen to grasp whatever blocking concept they require to run their scheme at this level. That protection isnt holding up enough to hit the explosive plays they have dialed up.

The result is that our passing game is bottled up between the LOS and abiut 15 yards deep. With team increasingky adspting to the bread and butter stuff we are running in tbose areas.

Ive watched some All 22 and focused specifically on sacks ( i think they have been far more damaging to our w/l probability than Geno's INTs) and the telling thing is that a good number of them come when the Offense is trying to force the deep ball as an alternate to the methodical, 5, 10 / 12 yard pass plays we have come to live off of over the last 6 weeks. Sometimes the blitz just gets to Geno and there's nowhere to go. But often you can see them pick the spot for the deep ball and go all in on it, only for the blocking to fail because we didnt anticipate a rush and the whole thing blows up.

I think the entire unit and Grubb are picking the wrong spots to hit the explosives - i am not talking about underneath screens that go 50, but passes that travel 30 or 40+ yards in the air.

Mabdonald admitted as much this week when he said theyve tried to hit some stuff to DK to get him involved and its nit worked.

And therein lies the frustration.

The playcalling doenst seem to follow a logic based on the flow of the game and setting up the defense, whether from run to pass or from shallow pass to deep. Its all very random.

We will pass on 4 straight downs and then its like we remember we need to run, so we send Charbs up the gut, left or Walker off tackle right. Or, we will be in 3rd and 3, remeber that Dk hasnt been involved and decide that THATS the moment to take the shot 50 yards down field and play ourselves into a sack.

Watxhing the seahaws offense is like watching ME play madden

What we dint know is whether Geno is selcting those shots from the options given or whether its Grubb.

I half wish they would put the kabash of Geno audibling to wide from the selcted play and see how much of the issue is Grubb being inexperienced vs Geno picking the wrong option from the plays he is given to select from.
Every single post turns into a shot at Grubb. The consistency is impressive.
 

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