Geno Smith the headcase

[Ozzy]

Geno in the 10-15? There's nothing wrong with that, although some might rated him higher, me included, and most on dot net had him lower.

I even 10-20’is reaonable

The negative posts about DK arent only in trade threads. You know it as well as i do.

Do i have to quote the threads? It has been argued many times that he drops the ball too much. Do you think there are similar posts in Detroit about St Brown? Or in Cincy about Chase?

DK has and still is the story of 'what if'. What if he could grow up and grow a pair of real No 1 WR hands. Jesus, even the announcers cslled out DK for constantly catching the ball with his body and not his hands...

You could argue his non catches, and bad routes cost us the 1st 9ers game.

Last year against Cincy early in the season, his lazy routes also resulted in an INT and drive killing play.

Im not saying he sucks. But its funny how you talk about how Geno's mistakes are boneheaded and hiw they come at the worst time, but then ignore the fact that DK has by himself killed the momentum in 3 games we would have won this year.

Detroit. NY. SF (in Seattle). Its not debatable. It happened. Its fact.

And i'm sorry, but when the talk coming out of games is more 'what would have happened had DK come down with both feet in bounds?... what would have happened if DK ran a crisper route... what woukd have happened if DK didnt cough up the ball, that player cant be credited with creating a situation where the QB should be playing better BECAUSE of him.

And before you say ' that the same issue with Geno... what eould have heppenwd IF he didnt throw the pick ...'. Except we know what happened after he threw the picks. Against NY, he led us down for a game winning drive. Against the Rams (like Goff) he overcame multiple TOs (that werent all the mental errors detractors claim them to be) and tied the game and then put us in posotion to win it. Against the 49 ers the first time, he git the ball back and we were in position to score late to take the lead.

Its as simple as this. You can watch the games from a neutral position and analyze what happening and the context in which it happens, regardless of what side of the ball, or which player, or you can watch it with a bias towards anticipating seeing what you THINK is happening based on predisposition around a player, offense, defense or team.

Is funny. K9 has been in the bottom 1/2 of the league since hes been here (statisticaly) He's looked spectacular at times and he has also quite often bounced runs he should hit through the line a bit faster. But no one woukd say that Ken Walker is the 18th best RB in the league because his stats say so. At worst, folks would grade him 'incomplete'. Why? Because its obvious he hasnt been provided the tools around him to succeed. His tackles for loss arent all his fault. His crap YPC games arent all on him. When you see the dude do his thing when thise sround him, supporting him, do theirs, he is one of the best in the league. When those guys dont do their jobs... you get the stats he has had. But he gets a pass (and should) yet HIS job is far less reliant on multiple aspects of the offense running well than the QBs is. Yet the QB on this team isnt given half the benefit the RB is.

yeah there are similar threads about those guys. Someone already pointed it out that the elite guys drop passes and you ignored it. The Seahawks have a fantastic WR and it helps Geno. Im baffled if I’m being honest that you disagree.

 

[Ozzy]

Goff does not have a reputation for processing things fast or well. There's a reason McVay jettisoned him quickly. He absolutely requires tye strong run game and good o-line to even be functional at all.
You can't function at the level Geno has with those 2 support systems being as dysfunctional as they have over the last 3 seasons without being an upper tier processor at the QB position. You simply can't unless you're Lamar and can run so effectively.
This leads to my main gripe with these types of arguments. Where we think Geno ranks in tye league is obviously pure opinion and irrelevant. The problem comes in when "we", (the collective) we come to these opinions without paying attention to details that aren't so subjective.
Goff just threw 5 picks in a game, with an excellent running game and arguably the best o-line in the league. He's the opposite of mobile. What makes anyone think it's even a question that he'd be worse with us. We have no running game and a bad o-line. You think Goff's performance with us throwing 40+ times a game would look good or even average?

I’ve watched Goff a ton over the years. I disagree on your assessment of him. He’s much better than many give him credit for and he’s a better player than he was while with the Rams(he was good then too).

 

[keasley45]

There have been some great wide receiver corps that have had issues with drops... In fact Puka Nacua lead the league in drops, as did Tyreek Hill in 2023. That doesn't say anything about how good they are at getting open or their playmaking abilities.

Also, in 2023 the Seahawks were not even top 5. The Seahawks were 9th in overall dropped passes -- they were not even top 5 in percentage of dropped passes. Also, if you notice dropped passes and offense potency isn't necessarily correlated https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...rick-mahomes-offense/c3e1b49eda06be12f2da28d5. (dropped passes stats near the bottom of the page).

The 3rd, 4th, 7th, 9th and 5th top rated offenses were all in the top 10 dropped passes stats. Hell, if we're just going by percentage of balls dropped, the Ravens would also be in there. Some of these teams were specifically known for having potent receiving corps.

The Seahawks have had one of the better receiving corps in the NFL.

So you are saying that with all of the other broken crap we gave going on, the fact that our wrs drop passes at a top 10 rate doesnt hurt anything?

Citing that other team's players that dont have the other habdicaps we do also have high drop rates doesnt change the point.

If you drop the ball but those drops occur in the course of an offense / team killing it to the tune of making the superbowl, thats a different animal isnt it?

Its similar to when in the LOB days, we led the league in penalties. It would be kind of silly for a 5-12 team who was also in the top 5 in penalties to say 'big deal' because the superbowl champs are commit more.

If you are bad in several areas you need to be stellar in others. Our Wrs have not performed at a stellar level. And thats coming from someone who thinks they have the POTENTIAL to be top 5 to 10.

 

[keasley45]

I even 10-20’is reaonable

yeah there are similar threads about those guys. Someone already pointed it out that the elite guys drop passes and you ignored it. The Seahawks have a fantastic WR and it helps Geno. Im baffled if I’m being honest that you disagree.

I didnt ignore anything. Just responded in my last post.

 

[Ozzy]

I didnt ignore anything. Just responded in my last post.

Alright well it seemed like you missed the drops comment then because someone pointed out the best guys usually have a ton of drops because you kept saying its a reason that holds Geno back.

Where would you rank the Seattle trio of receivers? You make the argument that a bad defense has a massive impact on a QB's stats but wouldn't his skill players hes throwing to have an even bigger impact on what he's doing statistics wise?

 

[Ozzy]

I went and looked at the dropped passes. The range is 27 for the most to 7 for the least. Geno is at 19 which is 8th. But this isn't as big a deal as you would think. Almost all the teams are bunched in the 14-20 range so I don't think this is really a factor for Geno's stats. There are only 3 teams below 10. Seattle also has thrown as many passes as anyone too so when you look at the drop % My guess is its actually pretty decent.

 

[Ozzy]

In fact DK leads the team and he's 24th in the league which as a higher volume receiver isn't bad at all. This looks to be a non-issue when you dive into it.

 

[rigelian]

In fact DK leads the team and he's 24th in the league which as a higher volume receiver isn't bad at all. This looks to be a non-issue when you dive into it.

Interceptions 2024 - Be sure to sort by rate.
Well if we focus on the rate of drops we should probably also look at percentage of interceptions per pass. If you do it that way Geno (3% of passes thrown are intercepted) falls at #9, just a tick worse than Flacco, Goff, and Mahomes (all at 2.9%). I think that Geno's interception issues might be just a little exaggerated.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Not really. He's making boneheaded decisions in the red zone, often. I'm not buying the excuses. Many do, and that's fine. Not me.
I expect more from a starting QB making what he's making.

 

[NoGain]

There's good Geno and bad Geno. You have to live with bad Geno if you go with good Geno because bad Geno is going to show up and make you go WTF!

 

[rigelian]

Not really. He's making boneheaded decisions in the red zone, often. I'm not buying the excuses. Many do, and that's fine. Not me.
I expect more from a starting QB making what he's making.

His interception rate isn't great, but it's not much different than Goff or Mahomes. Moreover, if you dig deeper you find that he does a decent job on game winning drives.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Goff and Mahomes are both better than Geno. Geno finished strong the last 2 weeks; I'll take it. But it doesn't excuse the position he often puts the team in.

 

[rigelian]

SoulfishHawk, I'm not arguing that Goff and Mahomes are worse than Geno. However, the numbers regarding interception rate just don't lie.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I just think Geno is quite overrated on here and gets a LOT of excuses for his mistakes. That's all.
I get blasted for it on the regular, and that's fine.

 

[keasley45]

His interception rate isn't great, but it's not much different than Goff or Mahomes. Moreover, if you dig deeper you find that he does a decent job on game winning drives.

Actually, through week 6 this year, he is ranked top 10 in LEAST TURNOVER WORTHY PLAYS at something like 2.4%.

 

[keasley45]

2024 NFL quarterback rankings ahead of Week 9

The Bengals' Joe Burrow ascends to the top spot in PFF's quarterback rankings following Week 8.

www.pff.com

The trouble with opinion is that it has little utility in a conversation around facts.

I was wrong, Geno is around top 7 in LEAST turnover worthy plays at closer to 2.2%

Problem is, if you are throwing CONSTANTLY because you cant do anything else, the number of those plays that you see in a given game looks bigger.

This stat makes complete sense when you consider that a good number of Geno's INTs have NOT been entirely his fault. Tips, deflections, etc...

But then again, maybe the guys at PFF just LOVE Geno too and think he can do no wrong...

 

[Shane Falco]

I think what gets overlooked is WHEN he's making those bone-headed mistakes. So many seem to be in the red zone. And it feels like it's on a downward trend.

 

[rigelian]

In contrast I think Geno is underrated. However, that is just an opinion. The interesting thing is piecing together the information (facts, data etc) that shines light on the opinions we have.

I think that Geno throws a slightly higher percentage of interceptions than average. I also think that people believe that he throws them at a higher rate than he does.

 

[rigelian]

I think what gets overlooked is WHEN he's making those bone-headed mistakes. So many seem to be in the red zone. And it feels like it's on a downward trend.

He makes them in the red zone because the defense is far more compressed. This becomes even a bigger problem when you have an offense than can't run the ball.

 

[Shane Falco]

He makes them in the red zone because the defense is far more compressed. This becomes even a bigger problem when you have an offense than can't run the ball.

Of course. But I'm not talking about not being able to score. I'm talking about the really poor decisions.