Geno Smith is Dave Krieg….

[Rat]

Im impressed he was even willing to concede three.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

You make a very good point, brother. Very good.

 

[Ozzy]

Are we assuming he made the right decisions on every play that didn't result in an INT?

I've brought this up but it keeps getting ignored. He lead the league in turnover worthy throws before yesterday and had another 2 at least yesterday so I'm sure his lead only got bigger. He's had a ton of balls that should've been picked that weren't.

No one is saying he's not talented. He is super talented and can make any throw. Almost every game he has a few wow plays and is accurate, one of the most accurate in the league. The problem isn't that.....it's that he makes way too many dumb mistakes as he did yesterday.

That doesnt mean he sucks it just moves him down from the elite tier into the middle third somewhere in that 12-20 range. I went through all the starters and put him at 15 or so the other day and there were a couple more who I could rank higher than him that I didn't but will soon if he continues to throw picks at an alarming rate.

It's not laughable to think Geno has some flaws or that he makes too many mistakes. It's the general consensus around the entire league about him.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Look, there are times when Geno is good and he plays great football, and there are times when he's bad and when so, he's awful. Unfortunately this always seems to happen at different times in the same game. This is why I have zero confidence in him to make any kind of post season runs. He just doesn't have the mentality in my opinion to know when to run, throw it away, take certain sacks, not force throws for picks, etc,,,. He can make some fantastic throws during the game, but looks like a rookie on other drives. Its frustrating.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

That pick yesterday, in a critical moment of the game. Geno in a nutshell, several times this season. You CAN'T do something that stupid as a starting QB in this league. There was NO reason for him to do anything BUT run or throw it away. Get the damn points and don't apologize for it. The Red Zone matters, a LOT. This guy is proving to be very sloppy in the most important part of the field. Excuses don't change what my eyes see.

 

[Ozzy]

The line excuse appears to be trending the other way as well as is the defense. If the line and the defense were the reasons he had a 11-11 TD/INT ratio then this should be trending much better but the past couple of weeks it hasn't. Defense has played lights out 3 weeks in a row and the addition of Olu and Lucas has helped stabilize the line. I thought they played pretty well last night and the week before. Geno's numbers haven't changed much as he is still throwing a pick a game but will be interesting to see how they change.

 

[Chukarhawk]

I eould really love it if someone had the time to post vid recaps of all of Geno's interceptions this year.

In terms of just dumb plays, he's made 3 so far that there is no excuse for. The rollout arm tip pick 6 against the Rams, the pick last week against the 9ers where he was betting on JSN turning up field and he threw it to the safety, and the one against arizona. You could add a 4th in the toss up to JSN that was picked to close out the Detroit game.

To reframe history as if he is somehow an idiot when 4 of the picks were TRULY bad and 8 were either tipped, hit the wr in the hands or the body, a result of a penalty that shoukd have been called on the D or a slight overthrow with pressure in his face, is silly.

If the vids of the other 8 ints were posted and analyzed, it woukd be pretty obvious and at least quell the notion that the qbs head is broken.

I say that only to make the point that the gap between where the qb play is now and where it needs to be for us to contend isnt so great as some would like to make it seem.

Geno absolutley does need to stop thinking he is superman and just give up on some plays when they arent there ( like the AZ pick and the 'too late' throw away against the Rams).

He also needs to stop F'ing back pedaling when under pressure and just break contain and escape laterally to extend plays.

And he needs to stop betting on getting enough protection when the blitz is coming, because he believes he will be able to hit the big play. He's done this more times than i can count, gambling that the vulnerability the defense offers, he can exploit.

But for Christmas' sake all of the ' ITS INEXCUSABLE'... ' HES A TERRIBLE DECISION MAKER' talk is comical.

I think folks are conflating the comedy of errors that happened in the Bills game and attributing them to him when they werent his doing. If he doesnt get stepped on and doesnt have williams snap the ball 3 yards over our heads, i dont think there's nearly the feeling that he's a walking disaster in the redzone.

Simple fact that has haunted this team going on 3 years now is that its hard to succeed inside the 10 and 20 if you dont have a run game. When the field compresses, throwing lanes get tighter, windows smaller, and the defense gains an advantage, especially when they know you cant best them on the ground.

We live off of the pass WAY too much. And Geno has become accustomed to doing too much. Is he wrong for thinking if he doesnt make the play that it wont be made? To date, probably not. But there needs to be better balance on the offense and more creativity in the run game.

His INTs in the redzone in my opinion is far less troubling than the fact that his comoletion percentage in the redzone was in the mid to low 40s over 2023.

Again. You cant expect to consistently score in the redzone if you dont pose a threat on the ground.

If Grubb would spend as much time scheming a solid run game as he does trying to scheme AROUND the run game, we might have something.

Until then, we wont reach our potential.

But Geno v Kreig?

Tell you what, If Geno was our qb on Jan 8, 1984, we'd have gone to the SB long before Holmy came along. Krieg picked the absolute WORST game to forget to show up for. He was awful. Orders of magnitude a
More awful than Geno has ever been as a Seahawk, or Jet.

Awful to the tune of 3-9 for 12 yards and 3 picks. Until our SB loss, it was THE game i coukd never rewatch for how heartbreaking it was.

I dont think Knox ever forgave him for it.



In case you want to relive it or watch it for the first time.

Kreig is one of my favorite all time Hawks. But he didnt have half the tools and ability that Geno has. He was the posterchild for overachieving where Geno fails when he underachievs..

at this point in the season your record is who you are. the Hawks are 6-5 and are decent team with flaws. The same can be said for QB's that lead the NFL in sacks.

Seahawks have turned the corner, but Geno Smith is running out of excuses for INTs | Sporting News

It would be one thing if this were a new phenomenon for Geno, but this has been going on all season long.

www.sportingnews.com

 

[Glasgow Seahawk]

I thought real Hawk talk made a good point last night. Geno has been trying to do it all himself this year but now the defense has turned the corner he doesn't have to and shouldn't and he needs to be coached on this. Basically take the goddam first down at points like last night so we dont have nervy endings. An elite team would have punished us for that

 

[SoulfishHawk]

This right here ^^^^
He is 100 percent to blame for that ridiculous pick in a key moment. It was a stupid decision, and not one you want from your starting QB.
Also, this had nothing to do with coaching. He chose to make a boneheaded decision, when he clearly had a very good shot at a 1st down and extending the drive, adding points, taking time off the clock. I'll say it for the 7000th time, KNOW THE SITUATION. How many times do we have to see him do this and hear excuses for why he did it?

Not trying to argue, but this is a flat-out pattern, imo. Red zone possession coming away with NO points. Again.

 

[oldhawkfan]

I know this thread title is comparing Geno to Dave Krieg. There really is no comparison. I was actually going to post that I'd be happy if Geno went one game without throwing an interception. Imagine my surprise when I actually looked and there have been 3(!) games this season that he is INT free. I seriously thought he had thrown at least one in every game. He threw 3 in the OT loss to the Rams. He has 5 INTs total in the wins and 7 in the losses. Thats 5 INTs in 6 wins and 7 INTs in 5 losses. 3 wins 0 losses when he doesn't throw a pick. Ball security is important. I hope these last 6 games that number goes way down!

 

[Ozzy]

This right here ^^^^
He is 100 percent to blame for that ridiculous pick in a key moment. It was a stupid decision, and not one you want from your starting QB.
Also, this had nothing to do with coaching. He chose to make a boneheaded decision, when he clearly had a very good shot at a 1st down and extending the drive, adding points, taking time off the clock. I'll say it for the 7000th time, KNOW THE SITUATION. How many times do we have to see him do this and hear excuses for why he did it?

Not trying to argue, but this is a flat-out pattern, imo. Red zone possession coming away with NO points. Again.

That was Huards assessment too of Geno. He actually likes Geno more than I do but had the same problem. For as talented as he is he makes mistakes that you expect a rookie to make, not a 12 year vet.

 

[Lagartixa]

Loved Kreig. Should’ve won the bowl in 86 season as they beat both SB teams

In addition to beating both the Giants and hated Broncos that season (the Broncos only once - the Seahawks lost the game in Denver), Krieg and the Seahawks also went to Foxborough in September of '86 to face the team that had lost the previous Super Bowl. The Seahawks won that one, and I was in the stadium to see it. I mentioned that game to a friend on Sunday because it had a crazy finish like a few of Sunday's NFL games did. The Seahawks scored 24 points in the fourth quarter, and the Patriots scored 14.

I have Krieg as the second-best Seahawks QB of all time. There's a giant gap between Wilson and everyone else, and I put Krieg ahead of Hasselbeck in second place, but I can't say anyone who reverses the order of those two is wrong, because those two played in different eras, so comparing them is hard. The only other one I think is worth even mentioning is Zorn, who was my first childhood sports hero, and whom I'd put in fourth place among Seahawks QBs.

 

[keasley45]

Are we assuming he made the right decisions on every play that didn't result in an INT?

Like i said. If you watch the other plays, they are not a result of making a poor decision. Murph has covered this on Youtube. Matty Brown has addressed it, as have a few others. If you have time, find their gane recaps. They do a pretty solid job of explaining exactly what was happening on the plays.

Shoot, if i have time i will post clips.

Its not making excuses.

Week 1 - 1 int.

Geno gets hit in the knees while throwing (should have been a roughing call) ball falls short when it likely would have been completed over the defender who intercepted it.

Bad decision? No.

Week 2 - No INTs

Week 3 - Dolphins - 1st int occured from the endzone where he was pressured immediateky and threw a pass to Charbs that he tipped and was Intercepted. He was throwing the ball to where Charbs had setup (7 yard line) but during the pass, Charbs broke back toward the line of scrimmage, the ball was deeper than his position (4 yard line).

Bad decision? He had to get rid of the ball or take a safety. He threw it to where his player was, under duress. - No.

2nd int - tipped ball by the Dlineman

Bad decision? No.

Week 4 - Detroit - he threw a pass to a doubled covered JSN from the 20 with a little over a minute left.

Bad decision? Yes. In Redzone

Week 5 against the Giants- no ints. But... he gets faulted for sliding short on 3rd and a mile and detractors point to THAT moment losing us the game, when DK caughed up the ball at the 20 when we woukd have scored and the playcall on 4th and 1 following Genos slide was hot garbage resulting in a sack.

Week 6 -1st int - an overthrow to Tyler from around the 25.

Bad decision? No.
Bad throw? Yes.

2nd int - DK runs a crap route resukting in the pick. This was ackowledged by everyone who was asked about it, including DK.

Bad decision? No

Week 7 - No picks

Week 8 - Buffalo - he throws an INT as a result of a batted pass on a screen to Walker. Its the exact same kind of pass we have hit for huge yards a hundred times. Could he have pulled the ball down and broke pocket a bit? Maybe.

But a bad decision? No

Good on the Defender timing the swat.

Week 9 - 1st pick hits JSN in the body, bounces off and is intercepted. The ball was a little behind him, but hits him in the chest / arms.

Bad decision? No

2nd pick - pick 6 after his arm was hit trying to throw the ball away. He could have decided to throw it away sooner but was hit from behind so he likely thought he had time.

Bad decision - Yes and No.

3rd pick - Barner is held. Geno throws it EXACTLY to where Barner was going. Not his fault his receiver was held getting there. Should have been interference.

Bad decision? No

Week 10 - he throws a ball to where he thought JSN would go on his scramble when he should have just run it.

Bad decision? Yes

Week 11 - he tosses a dumb ball into the endzone right at the defender when he could have run for the 1st.

Bad decision? Yes

Thats all of them. Feel free to debate my take, but those are the circumstances under which they happened. Contrary to popular belief, they arent all happening in the redzone. As a matter of fact, few of them are.

And the majority of the time, they arent a byproduct of the QB brain farting.

The dude has been under a good bit of pressure behind one of the worst line in the league. Considering that and the low number of 'unforced errors' he has commited, he's doing pretty well.

There is no defense of his dumb backpedal, for him not running sooner, and for him trying to force balls into tight windows or for trying to make a play when there isnt one to be made.

But the reality is that these INTs shouldnt even have counted due to uncalled penalties.

Week 1 - should have been roughing where he was hit while throwing.
Week 9 - one should have been PI

There are 4 more that hit the reciever in the hands or were tipped by a defender.

Theres one where his arm was hit resulting in an INT

Thats 7. Is Geno a victim in those 7? No. Coukd he have made better plays? Sure. But he also didnt make bad plays or poor decisions.

4 of the other 5 are 100% Geno. No doubt about it.

But to have a guy get pummeled constantly, always be in a position where he is throwing under duress - this just isnt a case of Geno making bad decisions that are killing us.

Its an offense that is maligned because it is overly pass based and cant pass protect, resulting in oressure thats getting to the QB and effecting the play or the pass itself.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It flat out IS Geno making bad decisions. Often in the Red Zone. Why is it so hard to just accept that he needs to get a hell of a lot better with his decision making?
And why is it so hard to accept that people may have different opinions on the QB? Welcome to QB in the NFL.
He could throw 5 straight picks, and some would jump on here and claim none of them were his fault. I can respect your loyalty to the guy, but damn. It's to the point of blatant refusal to point blame where it should be. He's not THE problem, but he absolutely is hurting this team wish his decision making.

Not sure why I bother at this point. We won, I'm happy. On to next Sunday.

 

[keasley45]

It flat out IS Geno making bad decisions. Often in the Red Zone. Why is it so hard to just accept that he needs to get a hell of a lot better with his decision making?
And why is it so hard to accept that people may have different opinions on the QB? Welcome to QB in the NFL.
He could throw 5 straight picks, and some would jump on here and claim none of them were his fault. I can respect your loyalty to the guy, but damn. It's to the point of blatant refusal to point blame where it should be. He's not THE problem, but he absolutely is hurting this team wish his decision making.

Not sure why I bother at this point. We won, I'm happy. On to next Sunday.

I just posted the summary of his picks. And in that summary i called out the obvious bad decisions as well as the others. Im not the 'decider' of what is right or wrong, but i do believe that if you are going to debate something and not just state an opinion, that debating what actually occured is important.

All you just said was he makes bad decisions. Which i agree with. You stating that i am in denial at that point is just ignoring what i wrote.

So we disagree about which ints were bad decisions and which werent. Which ones do you think were ? And why?

I will say it again.

GENO DOES SOME INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING THINGS. AND, HE HAS MADE SOME BONEHEADED PLAYS.

I just dont see the majority of his INTs - which is now THE measuring stick for greatness (and it does need to be improved) - as being so agregiously his doing as you do.

And i took the time to actually document why rather than just stating what i think i see.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. I appreciate your passion on the subject.

Go Hawks

 

[oldhawkfan]

You missed out, guy could ball!

I remember that game well. If I recall it was also the first win in KC in a long time.

 

[keasley45]

I remember that game well. If I recall it was also the first win in KC in a long time.

That game was magical. When it happened, i wanted to tell everyone i knew. but there were no cell phones, no social media, and no one else i knew followed the Hawks, so i mostly just yelled and jumped up and down for joy in my parent's living room. it was incredible.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I remember it like it was yesterday. I dove on the couch and knocked it over. We didn't exactly win a lot of games back then. Incredible ending. And Skansi was tough as nails.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

They are about similar talent level. Geno has the stupid picks, while a newborn infant had bigger hands than Krieg. Two defenders would crash together behind Krieg, and the ball would go flying wildlly out of his hand.