Elephant in the room...Russell Wilson

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ludakrishna

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bmorepunk":12smdun5 said:
ludakrishna":12smdun5 said:
he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB

His cap hit is $31 million.

What is your number? What should he be paid?


Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs
 
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ludakrishna

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SoulfishHawk":35m9al81 said:
Don't bother, you'd have been luck performing surgery on yourself.
Mediocre, yeah right.

Over the last 9 games, he ranks as the 19th QB. That is considered not mediocre?
 

rcaido

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ludakrishna":yias8d6b said:
rcaido":yias8d6b said:
ludakrishna":yias8d6b said:
rcaido":yias8d6b said:
4000yrds+ passing
500+yrds rushing
40TDs + 2TDs rushing
69% Completion
Passer Rating 105.1
3 Game Winning Drives

Won Division 12-4

How did he finish over the last half of the season? Is that worthy of his salary?
yes

Lol okay.

The team went 6-2 for last half of the season. If you can be 12-4 every season of course he is worth the salary.
 

rcaido

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ludakrishna":3mp6tipx said:
bmorepunk":3mp6tipx said:
ludakrishna":3mp6tipx said:
he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB

His cap hit is $31 million.

What is your number? What should he be paid?


Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs

Nick Foles? The guy who lost his job to Turbisky? You think he would do better than Russ? He had a cap hit of 22million this year. Wilson 31million.
 

Nunya

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Do you guys realize that the Seahawks set a franchise record for points scored this season?

Cherry picking a select portion of RW's season and then claiming that is a complete representation of his ability and worth is a childish way to go about it.
 
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ludakrishna

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rcaido":101sgydk said:
ludakrishna":101sgydk said:
bmorepunk":101sgydk said:
ludakrishna":101sgydk said:
he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB

His cap hit is $31 million.

What is your number? What should he be paid?


Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs

Nick Foles? The guy who lost his job to Turbisky? You think he would do better than Russ? He had a cap hit of 22million this year. Wilson 31million.

Getting injured is called losing his job to Trubisky? You honestly don’t have a clue about what transpired during the season. A savings of $11M to sign multiple impact players? You bet I’ll take that.
 
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ludakrishna

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Nunya":1tqn3ka3 said:
Do you guys realize that the Seahawks set a franchise record for points scored this season?

Cherry picking a select portion of RW's season and then claiming that is a complete representation of his ability and worth is a childish way to go about it.

Cherry picking would be me selecting at random his X number of poor games. I identified the last 9 consecutive games he’s played this season after a marvelous first 7. He and the team have not recovered offensively and I just pointed that out using facts and data, not feeling.
 

SoulfishHawk

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19th best?
Time for me to bow out of this subject. I clearly get too worked up over it. And in reality, it's not that important. It's a game we have no control over. I stick to my opinions on the matter, and other's do that same, and that's fine. It just goes nowhere really.
Just my opinion, but many of you guys will never get it when it comes to Russ. And for the record, he absolutely DOES have to play his A game for this team to go deep in the playoffs, period. And I DO know that there are things he has to avoid. Holding the ball too long, playing tentative if the o line is getting blasted etc.
Huge playoff game on Saturday, and here it is, the 7,343th thread about Russ and doubting the guy etc. :irishdrinkers:
 

Nunya

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ludakrishna":28oexh15 said:
Nunya":28oexh15 said:
Do you guys realize that the Seahawks set a franchise record for points scored this season?

Cherry picking a select portion of RW's season and then claiming that is a complete representation of his ability and worth is a childish way to go about it.

Cherry picking would be me selecting at random his X number of poor games. I identified the last 9 consecutive games he’s played this season after a marvelous first 7. He and the team have not recovered offensively and I just pointed that out using facts and data, not feeling.

Ok....you want to look at stats? So let's look at those 9 games:

Week 9 - Buffalo: LOSS
68.29% completion
390 yard
2 TDs
2 INTs
QBR 94.6

Week 10 - Rams LOSS
59.46% completion
248 yards
0 TDs
2 INTs
QBR 57.0

Week 11 - Arizona WIN
82.14% Completion
197 yards
2 TDs
0 INTs
QBR 119.8

Week 12 - Eagles WIN
70.97% Completion
230 yards
1 TDs
0 INTs
QBR 102.9

Week 13 - Giants LOSS
62.79% Completion
263 yards
1 TD
1 INT
QBR 78.0

Week 14 - Jets WIN
77.78% Completion
206 yards
4 TDs
1 INT
QBR 122.6

Week 15 - WFT WIN
66.67% Completion
121 yards
1 TD
1 INT
QBR 73.2

Week 16 - Rams WIN
62.50% Completion
225 yards
1 TDs
0 INTs
QBR 93.9

Week 17 - 49ers WIN
55.56% Completion
181 yards
2 TDS
0 INTs
QBR 87.8

AVERAGE
67.35 Completion. Not too bad.
229 yards. Again, not too bad.
14 TDs. And again. Not too bad over 9 games
7 INTs. And yet again. Not too bad. A little high, but still a 2:1 TD:INT ratio
QBR 92.2. And still. Not too bad.
Record 6-3

While his numbers are not earth shattering over these 9 games, they are not that bad. A little above average. Some good games....some not so good. We can argue till we are blue in the face as to whether he is worth the money he is getting paid, but only looking at the tail end of the season does not bring any honesty into the discussion. The goal of any season is to make the play-offs and hopefully get the bye/home field. The team did make the playoffs and not by just squeaking in. However, it takes the WHOLE season to determine whether a team is worthy for post-season play and he should be evaluation on the WHOLE season....not just from a point to strengthen your argument that he is not worth the money.

While this offense is not as explosive in the last 9 games as they were in the first 7 games, they still get the job done. There are about 20 teams that wish they had a QB with the stats that RW had in the last 9 games of the season.
 

John63

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ludakrishna":2bnc34nq said:
Our Success in the playoffs will depend on which Russell Wilson shows up. Over the last 9 games, he has been a lower third QB. If you extrapolate his numbers from the last 9 games over the course of the year, he would be at

3664 yards
24TDs (2nd lowest of his career)
13INT (most of his career)
92.2 QB Rating (Lowest of his career)

I would consider 2-3 weeks an anomaly, but 9 weeks of mediocre play to close the Season is maybe what he is at this point. Unless if there is a miracle, we squeak past LA, and lose to the Saints. I don’t want to hear the injury excuse because every player in the NFL at this point is injured in some way shape or form. His performance fell off the cliff and hasn’t recovered.

It’s time to start planning for the future because I don’t think the Podcasts and Perfume distractions are going anywhere.


so it has not been 9 weeks of mediocre play

Last I checked 103, 119, 122 qb ratings are note mediocre. Nor is 94 or 95 qb rating when 85 is considered avg

So let me break Qb rating down to you last 9 games, starting with game 9 and movign to game 16

94.6
57
119.8
102.9
78
122.6
73.2
93.9
87.9


So not 9 weeks really only 3 bad games, 1 better than avg game and then the rest well above avg to great

Now as to your numbers hmm in 9 games 13 ints that interesting since all he has had for the season is 13 and at least 6 came in the first 7 games. someone is not being honest with the stats.
 

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The stupid in here is hitting all time levels, it's incredible.
 

rcaido

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ludakrishna":dlacqeaj said:
rcaido":dlacqeaj said:
ludakrishna":dlacqeaj said:
bmorepunk":dlacqeaj said:
His cap hit is $31 million.

What is your number? What should he be paid?


Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs

Nick Foles? The guy who lost his job to Turbisky? You think he would do better than Russ? He had a cap hit of 22million this year. Wilson 31million.

Getting injured is called losing his job to Trubisky? You honestly don’t have a clue about what transpired during the season. A savings of $11M to sign multiple impact players? You bet I’ll take that.

Turbisky beat him out as a starter in the beginning of the season...Foles also has been injury free for over a month now. Isn't Turbisky starting in the playoff? If you're no longer injured and someone else has the job, does that mean you lost your starting job?
 

John63

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ludakrishna":3jxlut5r said:
bmorepunk":3jxlut5r said:
ludakrishna":3jxlut5r said:
he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB

His cap hit is $31 million.

What is your number? What should he be paid?


Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs


wrong PC philosophy calls for someone who can manage the game and then take over when needed. To take ove ryou need an elite QB. the 2nd time you have either provided fales stats or false information.
 

hoxrox

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All these statements can be true, simultaneously.

1) Russ is a Hall of Fame QB and is the best QB we've ever had.

2) Russ was playing at an Elite Level at the beginning of the season.

3) Russ became a Turn-over machine in the middle of the season.

4) Russ appears to be trending up at the end of the season, however, he is still not playing at an Elite level.

5) Sure, there are many valid or invalid reasons for this.

6) However, we need Russ to be playing at an Elite level for the Hawks to advance to the SB.

That is all.
 

Spin Doctor

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I don't think there is any question that Russell Wilson is struggling right now. He's a good QB going through a rough stretch. I don't think the numbers tell the true story on Russell Wilson, and as of right now his play could be a liability come the playoffs.

Since week 9 and even a bit before he's been off. People point to his numbers not being bad, but I think that misses the whole picture. We've really simplified the offense to an absurd degree. He doesn't look to have as much control over the pre-snap reads. In the passing game he's looking overly tentative, and his pocket presence has really taken a nose dive -- something that he's been really developing. He's not really hitting on the long passes, and his Y/A had dropped to really low levels, his accuracy on deep, and even short passes don't really look there. He's not the same Russell Wilson that we know and love.

What is the cause? I think several things. Defenses have found a strategy that works against the Seahawks offense and Carroll refuses to adjust. Our offense as of this moment in time is prioritizing just one thing, turnovers and toxic differential. Its main goal is to run out the game clock, and limit turnovers. Our pass plays are mostly 7 step drops and crossing routes, we're avoiding the middle all together. Defenses are able to pin their ears back, and even send blitzers off the edge unabated. Nobody gets open because our offensive strategy.

Russell Wilson has taken a real beating. I suspect we'll find out about an injury come postseason. He just doesn't have the same zip, or degree of control that he had earlier in the season. Our offensive strategy really is punishing on the QB. Carroll's avoid turnover mantra at all cost also seems to be in Wilsons head. He looks like a QB that is second guessing himself. It also looks like the hits have started to mess with Wilson. I'm seeing happy feet in the pocket, and a QB that looks shell shocked out there.

Our offensive approach has not been doing Wilson any favors, and quite frankly it is foolish.
 

bmorepunk

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ludakrishna":2nnltb8w said:
bmorepunk":2nnltb8w said:
ludakrishna":2nnltb8w said:
he’s performed not up to the level of a $35M QB

His cap hit is $31 million.

What is your number? What should he be paid?


Pete Carroll’s philosophy calls for a Game Manager at QB. A Game Manager should not be a Top 10 paid QB. Alex Smith / Nick Foles mold is a prototypical QB for Pete Carroll. To allocate the amount we are to Russell under Pete’s philosophy is ridiculous because we’re hamstringing the remaining roster by signing a potential superstar QB to top $$ and asking him to limit his ceiling to being an Elite Game Manager. We would be equally as successful if not more if we spent money on a Nick Foles and used the remaining balance to strengthen the OL or DBs

So is Alex Smith's cap hit your number? His cap hit this year is $21.4 million. That nets $9.6 million.

Clearly Russell Wilson can find a team to pay him a lot more resulting in a lot more than a $21.4 million cap hit. So you're advocating for someone like Smith to get less than 5% of the salary cap back?
 

bmorepunk

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I get that people wish Wilson has been playing better in recent weeks.

But if you think there are multiple actual starter caliber QBs out there who are going to take less than $20 mil average cap hits at this point and aren't on rookie contracts you should start looking at QB contracts.

The only real starters this year with sub-$20 million cap hits who aren't on rookie contracts or in the end of on going into an extension are Matt Ryan (about $19 million, but next year's is over $40 million with $49 million in dead cap), Carson Wentz (about $18.5 mil this year, but next year it is like $35 million with nearly $60 million dead cap), and Bridgewater ($14 million this year, $23 million next year).

It's roughly $10 million in savings to get to the bottom of the veteran starter market from Wilson. That's it.

The only other option is to draft a rookie and hope that they aren't a bust. Which they probably will be.

This team has a legitimately good to great QB depending on which week, season, or streak we're talking about. And he's going to be the 8th highest cap hit for QBs next year, only $1 million more than Cousins, $2.5 million more than Tannehill, etc.

It would be one thing if he was Goffing it up and was nearly a $35 million hit (good luck Rams, not really), but QBs get paid what they get paid for a reason.
 

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I don't think Russell is that fat that he should be called an elephant.

He just looks fatter because I think he wears a flak-jacket to protect for injury.
 

John63

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Hockey Guy":idhn1pdn said:
I don't think Russell is that fat that he should be called an elephant.

He just looks fatter because I think he wears a flak-jacket to protect for injury.


they know that, but it another in the list of crap they can B...tch about, so they do.
 

Hockey Guy

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John63":3kose5i3 said:
Hockey Guy":3kose5i3 said:
I don't think Russell is that fat that he should be called an elephant.

He just looks fatter because I think he wears a flak-jacket to protect for injury.


they know that, but it another in the list of crap they can B...tch about, so they do.

But comparing his size to an elephant & that he'll have trouble fitting into a room so we need to discuss it?

That's a little too much fat shaming IMO.
 
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