Does anyone else think Seattle won the trade?

Did the Seahawks win the RW trade?

  • Yes

    Votes: 80 88.9%
  • No

    Votes: 10 11.1%

  • Total voters
    90

hawkfan68

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Explain that optimum talent that beat the superbowl favorite Saints in the playoffs...

The guy takes a team full of no names, has beens and young talent (but not yet playmakers) and literally orchestrates one of the biggest upsets in NFL playoff history, yet he's only capable of winning with superior talent?

The hate is strong.

And btw, that game was on NFL network the other day. Lots of passes going all over the field, including the middle. Timing, hot calls...

Makes you wonder what Hass could have done opposite the LOB and with Lynch established as Beastmode. That game was the birth of the Seahawks identity.
Very true. I don't hate Pete. He's a very good coach. He has too much power when it comes to football decisions....especially if he's vetoing John Schneider. It was John who first discovered RW and had to convince Pete Carroll to draft him. I just question Pete's decision making at times. One of those was after the 2010 season which you speak of. They decided not to resign Hasselbeck after that season. Instead they moved forward with TJack and Charlie Whitehurst. Both or those guys had a stronger arm than Hass but lacked the football IQ that Hass had. Thus they took a step backward from a QB perspective in 2011 but the defense got stronger. Imagine if they had resigned Hass, I think the Seahawks would have been a playoff team. Certainly would have 9+ wins with Hass at QB.

2022 could be like 2011 in the sense they are taking a step back at the QB spot but possibly getting stronger on defense. How good the 2022 defense will be is still unknown at this point. If Pete can refocus and bring it to top 10 or even better top 5 as it used to be in 2012 - 2017, then there's a chance they could get back to the SB in the future (most likely not in 2022). I don't see any team that is dominant in NFC.
 
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scutterhawk

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I have been posting my opinion that Pete mishandled Russ, first by putting him above all teammates. Then after he help created a monster, he refused to trade away that monster. John got it right, he started personally scouting QB in 2016, first with Mahomes, then Allen, but all to be vetoed by ,,,,, guess who? Pete.
Pete was loyal TO A FAULT.
He held onto Coaches & players way past their pull dates.
With RW, Pete TRIED LIKE HELL to HELP him find his niche, and Wilson was set on doing things HIS OWN WAY, and what was Wilson showing for gratitude? NOTHING.
 

pittpnthrs

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You really need to leave this forum and the Hawks and go become a Broncos fan and get on to their forums. There really is no place for you here!

Really why are you and John and a number of others and so many haters of the Hawks on this forum?

I don't get it, if all you and the others can do is hate and find fault and want the team to fail cause they are not doing it your way why are u even here.

Go find another team cause you are obviously not a FAN of the team. A fanatic is exactly that, they love their team regardless.

The same old lazy "if you dont love everything about the team then your not a fan" garbage. The reason I complain is because I am a fan. I have watched the decline of the team for years now and Carrolls obvious shortcomings. Wilson has too and thats why he wanted out. Fans that still think Carroll can turn the sinking ship around are delusional. The team wont be able to move forward until they get rid of him. Nostalgia doesnt win games.
 

pittpnthrs

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Explain that optimum talent that beat the superbowl favorite Saints in the playoffs...

The guy takes a team full of no names, has beens and young talent (but not yet playmakers) and literally orchestrates one of the biggest upsets in NFL playoff history, yet he's only capable of winning with superior talent?

The hate is strong.

And btw, that game was on NFL network the other day. Lots of passes going all over the field, including the middle. Timing, hot calls...

Makes you wonder what Hass could have done opposite the LOB and with Lynch established as Beastmode. That game was the birth of the Seahawks identity.

Good lord, Seattle upset a team for a game and you think that was the turning point for the future. It was one game with a miracle run by Lynch. Great. How much further did that team go after that game?

Take a look at Seattles post season record after 2014.
 

Mjolnir

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The way i see it, Russ is happy where he went. He did a lot for this franchise whether or not those who thought he became too "Hollywood" and became an issue on the team. But the reality of him not even looking in the middle or feeling comfortable with anything in the middle speaks volumes. Film just doesn't lie. I wanted so much to defend those cases, but alas I just couldn't come to the conclusion that he would ever graduate to playing the game differently than he does. And I am one who feels his game has been figured out by opposing teams. I thought he was going to be gone no matter what, so the unfortunate option left was to get something for him.

Given the current info, true or not but in this case that's all we have, the Hawks did the best they could. Russ vetoed apparently the other trade that would have given the Hawks more so that is a moot point. Getting rid of Pete and keeping Russ has its own problems and would not really have fixed the problems in my opinion.

So, as maddening as today's society thinks of "moderate" thinkers, I think both "won". Both are better off where they are and where they are going. I hope Russ does well. But I can't root for him anymore since he isn't on our team.
 

scutterhawk

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The way i see it, Russ is happy where he went. He did a lot for this franchise whether or not those who thought he became too "Hollywood" and became an issue on the team. But the reality of him not even looking in the middle or feeling comfortable with anything in the middle speaks volumes. Film just doesn't lie. I wanted so much to defend those cases, but alas I just couldn't come to the conclusion that he would ever graduate to playing the game differently than he does. And I am one who feels his game has been figured out by opposing teams. I thought he was going to be gone no matter what, so the unfortunate option left was to get something for him.

Given the current info, true or not but in this case that's all we have, the Hawks did the best they could. Russ vetoed apparently the other trade that would have given the Hawks more so that is a moot point. Getting rid of Pete and keeping Russ has its own problems and would not really have fixed the problems in my opinion.

So, as maddening as today's society thinks of "moderate" thinkers, I think both "won". Both are better off where they are and where they are going. I hope Russ does well. But I can't root for him anymore since he isn't on our team.
Couldn't have said it any better ^^^^
 

keasley45

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Good lord, Seattle upset a team for a game and you think that was the turning point for the future. It was one game with a miracle run by Lynch. Great. How much further did that team go after that game?

Take a look at Seattles post season record after 2014.

I didn't say it was the turning point if the franchise... but it kind if was in a way.

And since Hass left, we haven't had a traditional offense capable of consistently moving the ball, outside of improvised plays. That's not a criticism, just fact. Once Lynch left, this offensr lived and died on Russ's long ball lust and his scrambling. And once he stopped running, but for the last few minutes of each half, we were dead in the water. Thats the reality of the Hawks, post 2014. Not Pete somehow not being able to win without superior talent, but talent slowly being siphoned away, and an offense in a dead end without a running game to make it go.

Analysts now even talk about how the Hawks offense will no longer be predicted on an unscripted playsheet, but rather built on one of the fastest wr group in the league, a top TE group, and as dynamic rb group. Back to pre 2014. About time.
 

toffee

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Analysts now even talk about how the Hawks offense will no longer be predicted on an unscripted playsheet, but rather built on one of the fastest wr group in the league, a top TE group, and as dynamic rb group. Back to pre 2014. About time.
Seahawks offense 2022 could be interesting, good WR corp, good TEs, potentially great RBs, questionable but intriguing OL. If our running game could get going, all we need an average to above average QB to win 7-9 games. Someone play to the level of Jimmy G.

If the OL gel quickly with minimum rookie mistakes, and one of or both QBs could step up their games, watch out, we could surprise some teams.
 

rcaido

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I didn't say it was the turning point if the franchise... but it kind if was in a way.

And since Hass left, we haven't had a traditional offense capable of consistently moving the ball, outside of improvised plays. That's not a criticism, just fact. Once Lynch left, this offensr lived and died on Russ's long ball lust and his scrambling. And once he stopped running, but for the last few minutes of each half, we were dead in the water. Thats the reality of the Hawks, post 2014. Not Pete somehow not being able to win without superior talent, but talent slowly being siphoned away, and an offense in a dead end without a running game to make it go.

Analysts now even talk about how the Hawks offense will no longer be predicted on an unscripted playsheet, but rather built on one of the fastest wr group in the league, a top TE group, and as dynamic rb group. Back to pre 2014. About time.
That's odd, in 2015 Seahawks had 4th best offense in the NFL. That was the first time they actually let Russ cook.

2010 - ranked 23rd
2011- ranked 23rd
2012- ranked 9th (Wilson rookie year)
2013- ranked 8th
2014- ranked 10th
2015- ranked 4th (Lynch barely played)
2016- ranked 18th(Wilson was banged up that year w/ his ankle and his pectoral
2017- ranked 13th (Wilson had like 95% of the offense points, led in rushing too.
2018- ranked 6th Let Russ cook
2019- ranked 9th Let Russ cook
2020- ranked 8th Let Rus cook

Looking at the stats, having a top 10 offense in pretty much every season he played seem like your nitpicking.
 

pittpnthrs

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Analysts now even talk about how the Hawks offense will no longer be predicted on an unscripted playsheet, but rather built on one of the fastest wr group in the league, a top TE group, and as dynamic rb group. Back to pre 2014. About time.

Only problem now is the team has no QB to get those receivers and TEs the ball.
 

TwistedHusky

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There really isn't much to debate anymore.
Pete has won. He stayed in control. The Pete defenders have their guy.

I don't believe he has much value anymore but the point is moot.
We aren't arguing Pete vs Wilson. Now when Pete fails, you cannot blame Wilson and frankly - Wilson won't be there to bail him out.

Nobody is expecting anything this year. So there is no way to prove anything anyway.

If the year afterwards, we are not materially better, then it will be too late and we will have to figure out how we recover.

I am not worried about Pete failing. We were going to fail regardless unless we got lucky. I am worried about his using everything in the cupboards to keep us treading water and leaving us nothing to rebuild with.

Debating whether Wilson or Pete was the reason is pointless. Either Pete produces or he doesn't. The only thing that would make no sense to accept is excuses that Pete cannot produce because of a circumstance he himself created.

Pretty sure even the optimists here expect very little from this team in the coming season, and nobody knows beyond that because we have no idea who our QB will be.
 

keasley45

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That's odd, in 2015 Seahawks had 4th best offense in the NFL. That was the first time they actually let Russ cook.

2010 - ranked 23rd
2011- ranked 23rd
2012- ranked 9th (Wilson rookie year)
2013- ranked 8th
2014- ranked 10th
2015- ranked 4th (Lynch barely played)
2016- ranked 18th(Wilson was banged up that year w/ his ankle and his pectoral
2017- ranked 13th (Wilson had like 95% of the offense points, led in rushing too.
2018- ranked 6th Let Russ cook
2019- ranked 9th Let Russ cook
2020- ranked 8th Let Rus cook

Looking at the stats, having a top 10 offense in pretty much every season he played seem like your nitpicking.

It's not nitpicking. Russ"s early years, we played RG3 ball. He was a dual threat AND we had arguably the best back in the league toting the rock behind him. Add to that a deep ball threat and you have the offense that Pete's been wanting for the last few years.

In 2015, Lynch was banged up, but we were 3rd in the league in rushing, 13th in passing. And near the top in 3rd down conversions.

In fact, when the offense was run based we have been statistically better on 3rd down conversion than in any year Russ was allowed to cook.

It's accurate to say we haven't had deep playoff success since the early years when we had a running game that bolstered our offensive success, and one that Russ contributed to and in doing so, helped us move the chains. When he stopped and the offense landed on his arm, post 2016, we've landed in the bottom half of the league in 3rd down conversions. But Still great in stats.

Case in point. Everyone harps on how Russ was cooking in 2021 prior to his injury. Statistically speaking, he was great. The offense was dangerous. AND, it couldn't sustain drives and routinely failed to hold the ball when defenses would adjust. Both things are true. Had Pete continued to let Russ cook in 2020, the offense likely would have still put up yards on big plays. AND, it would also have likely suffered the same fate sustaining drives that it began to show that year and that plagued it in 2021.

Early in the transition to the offense leaning more on Russ, Pete continued to push the rush game because he saw the blindspot in thr passing game. The reaction was that Pete was killing the offense. 2020. Pete let Russ and Schotty go, until over three games and starting with the Cards loss in OT, Russ exhibited an inability to make sound decisions with the ball, whether reading the defense or NOT taking completely unnecessary risks and turning it over. He forced a strategy that allowed the run to get defenses to shift their strategy because the passing game couldn't.

And in 2021, he was even more hands off and didn't change a thing until week 14 or 15 and fumed as Russ just did what he's always wanted to - play big play, big stat ball - because that's his game. He's said it himself, so to claim its not true is to disagree with the man directly on the point.

But the fact remains, our passing game had never been great at sustaining drives without a running game to make it go. The stats look great, but the offensive stats are also bouyied by the run game, which was more dynamic when Russ helped it. But if you set the offenses stats next to 3rd down stats ( and especially passing 3rd down stats) the argument that Russ is this piece we can't win without because he did so much just doesn't hold water.

Truth is we don't know what the offense would have been with another competent qb at the helm during our peak years. But we can get an unbiased objective read when you look at the complete picture ALL of the stats show.
 
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keasley45

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Only problem now is the team has no QB to get those receivers and TEs the ball.

I dont think we know that. And claiming we do based on Locks last two years in a strawman offense with poor leadership isn't what I'd call foreshadowing.

You could argue his rookie season performance isnt either, but considering everything coming out of camp and the mouths of coaches is that what we are running is more similar to what he ran then,, and that he's already got it down... well that should give reason for optimism.

And Geno's performance as a seahawk has been a case of glass half full vs glass half empty. If you want to focus on how the games played out and look at an int to lose the Rams game and the fumble on a sack that cost us the Steelers game... and them dismiss the Jags game as a contest vs a barely NFL quality team, there's little to praise.

But if you see 68% completion, 5td vs 1 int (where the wr slipped), and a game where he set the franchise record for consecutive completed passes ( every qb we've had in our existence has had an opportunity to feast on cellar dwellers - none did what Geno did), then you see a glimmer of hope
 

toffee

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That's odd, in 2015 Seahawks had 4th best offense in the NFL. That was the first time they actually let Russ cook.

2010 - ranked 23rd
2011- ranked 23rd
2012- ranked 9th (Wilson rookie year)
2013- ranked 8th
2014- ranked 10th
2015- ranked 4th (Lynch barely played)
2016- ranked 18th(Wilson was banged up that year w/ his ankle and his pectoral
2017- ranked 13th (Wilson had like 95% of the offense points, led in rushing too.
2018- ranked 6th Let Russ cook
2019- ranked 9th Let Russ cook
2020- ranked 8th Let Rus cook

Looking at the stats, having a top 10 offense in pretty much every season he played seem like your nitpicking.
Simple,
2012/2013's 9th and 8th was Run Marshawn run.
2019/2020's 9th and 9th was Let Russ cook.
Same statistic result but different priorities and objectives.
 

keasley45

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Simple,
2012/2013's 9th and 8th was Run Marshawn run.
2019/2020's 9th and 9th was Let Russ cook.
Same statistic result but different priorities and objectives.
And only during one of those periods were we reliably good on 3rd down
 

pittpnthrs

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I dont think we know that. And claiming we do based on Locks last two years in a strawman offense with poor leadership isn't what I'd call foreshadowing.

You could argue his rookie season performance isnt either, but considering everything coming out of camp and the mouths of coaches is that what we are running is more similar to what he ran then,, and that he's already got it down... well that should give reason for optimism.

And Geno's performance as a seahawk has been a case of glass half full vs glass half empty. If you want to focus on how the games played out and look at an int to lose the Rams game and the fumble on a sack that cost us the Steelers game... and them dismiss the Jags game as a contest vs a barely NFL quality team, there's little to praise.

But if you see 68% completion, 5td vs 1 int (where the wr slipped), and a game where he set the franchise record for consecutive completed passes ( every qb we've had in our existence has had an opportunity to feast on cellar dwellers - none did what Geno did), then you see a glimmer of hope

Thinking and hoping that Lock will be better or more than what everybody has seen so far is setting oneself up for disappointment. He might not even start.

And then you have Geno Smith. He won one game in his time playing and that was against the worst team in the league that failed to even show up that day. The problem with the fumble and interception is that those are commonplace with Geno and not an aberration.

The best a Seahawk fan can hope for at this point is that they draft a QB that hits eventually next season and then you are still looking at probably 4 to 5 years by the time things get sorted out and by that time Carroll will be on his way out and then another shuffling of the cards will take place. Future doesnt look great right now.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Can't disagree at all, I have little to no confidence in geNO and Lock. That being said, wanting a team to lose so you get a better draft pick? What a brutal thought process. As if a top top 10 draft pick at QB is an automatic great pick. Not even close.
 

keasley45

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That's why he's on the team. In a season with an offseason to prep, in a scheme he was familiar with and a staff that helped him, this is what he looked like.

Everything changed after this season. What he's stepping into with the Hawks is similar to what he had then.
 

Smellyman

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How confident were NO fans when Drew Brees rolled into town with his 29 TDs and 31 INTs?

I am not ready to call Lock an awful QB, light-bulbs can go off later. He has all the tools and a QB friendly offense he is coming into with Waldron. Look forward to those TEs getting used like in the clips above.

and if it doesn't work out move on. Like the QB before him wanted to, forced and did.
 

chadhawkz

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I know a lot of people on here have a hard on for Wilson, but dude was way overrated. Wilson has a lot more to prove in Denver than Lock does here. All eyes will be on Denver. Wilson blamed everybody but the kitchen sink when things went wrong when in reality it was Wilson's game play and style and he'll do the same thing in Denver. Wilson is the type of dude that stands in front of the mirror and says I'm Brady or Montana. Wilson isn't as good as people make him out to be. Everyone is counting Seattle out this year so there will be no surprise if Seattle wins 3 games. Everyone is expecting Denver to probably win the SB (Won't Happen) this year and when they don't it will be a HUGE disappointment. I'll even go as far and say Denver won't even make the playoffs. Lock will shock a lot of people once the season starts and I'm gonna say Seattle does make the playoffs this year.
 
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