Do you REALLY want him gone?

[IndyHawk]

If Russ could stick with his role in "Pete ball" I'd keep him for rest of contract.
However he keeps going bipolar on what his role is and trying to be much more
than he has to be with his legs going out.
Father time is not doing him favors and his elite time is over.
He's never going to be the houdini who could sandlot cover 2 down but he sure
doesn't accept that fact.
It's hard falling from glory and having reality stare you in the face.
yes I want him to go so we get something for him besides watching him Fade away.

 

[jeremiah]

No I dont want Russ gone. Pete Carroll on the other hand,,,,,,,yes, I REALLY want him gone.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All of the above.... Get a new HC, and let him stew up ideas with Schneider. Let THEM decide and I will live with that.

I firmly believe that they have a unique chance to trade RW and DK, and get back enough draft capital build a better team, and in the middle of that find a used QB close to the equal of Russ at this stage.

 

[chris98251]

No I dont want Russ gone. Pete Carroll on the other hand,,,,,,,yes, I REALLY want him gone.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All of the above.... Get a new HC, and let him stew up ideas with Schneider. Let THEM decide and I will live with that.

I firmly believe that they have a unique chance to trade RW and DK, and get back enough draft capital build a better team, and in the middle of that find a used QB close to the equal of Russ at this stage.

Yes, trade Lockett, Wilson, Wagner, Diggs, Adams, DK, Jones, Reid, Taylor, Green, Collier, Brooks, Robinson and anyone else that can get a Draft pick, we will have a lot of fun Draft day going forward.

 

[OrangeGravy]

I'm on that page too, we went to SBs with a younger, faster, cheaper Russell along with an elite defense and a punishing run game. Russell isn't getting younger or faster, so cheaper is all that's left. He could get better at reading cover 2 defenses and getting the ball out faster, i.e., on time. Joe Burrow is already doing this stuff in his 2nd year in the league for Cincy, stuff that Russell hasn't shown us in 10 years. That's what Russell would need to do to be worth the money and get the Hawks back to the promised land. Can Russell upgrade his game that way? I'd rather bet on Pete making improvements. Now if BOTH Pete and Russell improved themselves, that would be an amazing result.

It was the LIONS and the Hawks brought a punishing run game that Detroit had to defend. Made Russell's job easier. Having the D get 3 picks to give the O short fields sure didn't hurt either. Also not sure how many D players Lions were missing due to covid, possibly a factor. Damned if Penny didn't *perform* like Lynch today, different styles, but tremendous impact on the game.

I did really like the Cover-0 blitz TD between Russell and DK, that was fantastic. Props to those 2 and Waldron for having that ready and executing.

Also loved the Lockett jet-sweep TD *pass*, fantastic to see. Kudos to Waldron for this play design. I didn't realize it was actually a *forward pass* until the announcers mentioned it was a TD pass to Lockett. Great design; a muffed exchange becomes simply an incomplete pass.

What we saw today was classic Pete-ball. Defense making plays, getting turnovers, offense running the ball and forcing defense to adjust, and Russell making good throws to open receivers against a defense stacked to stop the run, and Russell taking care of the ball. Turnover margin +3 unless I mis-counted.

Pete-ball at it's finest, *except* somehow the offense was green-lit to score the entire game. Maybe Waldron's influence, finally?

I tend to think this is reaction to the pressure and letting Wilson and the offense be what Waldron designed it to be, the defense went bend don't break while allowing the offense to score.

Are you saying performances like today have been disallowed previously?

If so, that's a bit ludicrous. Why we can't do this week in and week out isn't a mystery.

We were playing the 2nd worst team in the league who was starting their backup qb, which effectively makes them the worst.

Our offense was run based and we committed to it where in games earlier this season, we abandoned the run when it was working so that we could pass ourselves into a futile 2 to 1 pass to run ratio and literally throw games away. That's neither peteball nor Waldronball.

The lions team is not great on defense.

We saw what happened last time we went gaga over a blowout easy win against another weak opponent in Houston, just to show our warts again against a team that could box up our run game just enough and take away what Russ likes to do, leaving him with what he's less capable at.

Russ has raged against being held within the script of a complimentary, run based offense. If he was happy playing team qb, and not chef in the let russ cook, kitchen, that would be one thing. But then you're still faced with the spectre of having a winning enough season, maybe first place in the division, andthem, with teams knowing now hownto stop Russ in ways they didnt during our superbowl years, boxing us up and tossing us out in the first or second round of the playoffs again. There has yet to be a string of games or even one solid game where Russ has shown he can just run a good defense out of their typical kill strategy against us with his arm and ability to consistently distribute the ball and move the chains.

If there were performances like this against quality defenses, whistle to whistle, then the idea of moving on would be more difficult to embrace.

Yes I am saying some stuff has been disallowed, passes over the middle, for one, I also think Waldron was able to get in Wilsons ear this game and had it going his way along with a great O line play that let Penny get off. Several times over the years Pete has clamped down on the offense, players being overheard asking if they can score or if they are going to be allowed to score.

So now Pete is not allowing passes over the middle? Do you know how stupid that sounds? There's literally not one coach passed the high school level that would do that. If Pete meddled to the level fans accuse him of, Bevell would've resigned after 1 season and not 1 OC would've interviewed for that job thereafter. Head coaches that don't specialize on the offensive side of the ball don't call plays, they don't have their own offense, and they don't micromanage. What they will do is say what they want in high leverage game situations sometimes or give general directives like, " I want to run some clock on this drive". They might say at halftime, like the Steelers game, let's get the run game going. They're gonna course correct when their QB has a 2 game meltdown like Russell did last year, AS THEY SHOULD. That's their job.

It would be impossible to be as successful as Pete has been over his career without allowing the coaches under him to do their job. Head coaches have way too much on their plate to micromanage. Hell, even playcalling head coaches often have to relinquish those duties because they end up neglecting other areas of the team. That's not even to mention all 9f the off field support stuff they have to deal with in the building.

 

[chris98251]

I tend to think this is reaction to the pressure and letting Wilson and the offense be what Waldron designed it to be, the defense went bend don't break while allowing the offense to score.

Are you saying performances like today have been disallowed previously?

If so, that's a bit ludicrous. Why we can't do this week in and week out isn't a mystery.

We were playing the 2nd worst team in the league who was starting their backup qb, which effectively makes them the worst.

Our offense was run based and we committed to it where in games earlier this season, we abandoned the run when it was working so that we could pass ourselves into a futile 2 to 1 pass to run ratio and literally throw games away. That's neither peteball nor Waldronball.

The lions team is not great on defense.

We saw what happened last time we went gaga over a blowout easy win against another weak opponent in Houston, just to show our warts again against a team that could box up our run game just enough and take away what Russ likes to do, leaving him with what he's less capable at.

Russ has raged against being held within the script of a complimentary, run based offense. If he was happy playing team qb, and not chef in the let russ cook, kitchen, that would be one thing. But then you're still faced with the spectre of having a winning enough season, maybe first place in the division, andthem, with teams knowing now hownto stop Russ in ways they didnt during our superbowl years, boxing us up and tossing us out in the first or second round of the playoffs again. There has yet to be a string of games or even one solid game where Russ has shown he can just run a good defense out of their typical kill strategy against us with his arm and ability to consistently distribute the ball and move the chains.

If there were performances like this against quality defenses, whistle to whistle, then the idea of moving on would be more difficult to embrace.

Yes I am saying some stuff has been disallowed, passes over the middle, for one, I also think Waldron was able to get in Wilsons ear this game and had it going his way along with a great O line play that let Penny get off. Several times over the years Pete has clamped down on the offense, players being overheard asking if they can score or if they are going to be allowed to score.

So now Pete is not allowing passes over the middle? Do you know how stupid that sounds? There's literally not one coach passed the high school level that would do that. If Pete meddled to the level fans accuse him of, Bevell would've resigned after 1 season and not 1 OC would've interviewed for that job thereafter. Head coaches that don't specialize on the offensive side of the ball don't call plays, they don't have their own offense, and they don't micromanage. What they will do is say what they want in high leverage game situations sometimes or give general directives like, " I want to run some clock on this drive". They might say at halftime, like the Steelers game, let's get the run game going. They're gonna course correct when their QB has a 2 game meltdown like Russell did last year, AS THEY SHOULD. That's their job.

It would be impossible to be as successful as Pete has been over his career without allowing the coaches under him to do their job. Head coaches have way too much on their plate to micromanage. Hell, even playcalling head coaches often have to relinquish those duties because they end up neglecting other areas of the team. That's not even to mention all 9f the off field support stuff they have to deal with in the building.

Pete has averted using the middle because of the chance of interceptions, tip passes, bounce off's, there has been interviews over the years where he has stated this. That doesn't mean never, 2 minute drills coming from behind, why with Graham, Everett and others we rarely if ever use the seem route which was Graham's bread and butter in New Orleans.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Besides the personal hatred or discomfort you may carry towards Russ, do you really want him gone? I’ve read everything from he’s self absorbed to his wife will be happier in a place like NY to salary to…

Tons of attacks on his character. I’m sitting over here in OH like…”wtf”. This is a dude that has focused on community and posts something about God more than any player I can remember. I’m not saying he’s an angel but, attacks on his character seem silly. When he comes out and says he wants to be a Seahawk for life but will be playing somewhere if not here, there’s an uproar. Is he lying? Is that not blatantly honest and true? If you’ve bailed a team out countless times, have watched players like Ungar get whisked away while seeing a guy like Eskridge get taken over Creed, I think you’d get a bit frustrated as well. Nothing against Graham or Dee…just saying we haven’t invested in the line like we should have. If a particular philosophy doesn’t work with the players you have but a different philosophy could, you have to adapt. What we were doing last year before Pete got scared was what the players, and most fans, wanted to see. Two high safeties? Adjust. Stick with your strengths. Don’t tout a run first mentality when you haven’t and refuse to build a top of the line…line.
This isn’t to advocate “Let Russ Cook” but more so of having a bit of faith in a sure shot HOF’er. Balance. Something like what we saw today. Granted, it was Detroit. But, the playcalling and balance between the plays was the best we’ve witnessed all year.

Russ wasn’t the same after the injury this year And, he has his deficiencies. But, do you truly think he won’t be a top 5, maybe top 3 QB next year?

This isn’t 10 years ago. Teams actually have to have good, if not great, QBs to make it these days. Finding a quality QB isn’t something that happens for a team every day. Ask the Bears.

Russ has a lot left in the tank. I’ve got down on him, posted that I would lean towards a rebuild, trade, etc…But when I sit back and look at it holistically, there’s no way in West Texas I’d trade him.

I don't want him gone just to have him gone.

Russ has several innate qualities that make him a special player, namely his absurd deep accuracy throughout his career. No one can take that from him. It's nuts.

Still, I think the time has come where it is more than reasonable to question whether or not he's worth more than what Seattle could get in return.

He's got some glaring issues that show no real sign of steadily improving, and he's only getting older at 33. He has trouble staying on schedule, he essentially sabotages his offensive line with his erratic pocket movement, and his waning mobility amplifies these issues. Not only that, but it's seeming more and more like he's demanding more of a say despite the quality of his play decreasing.

It hasn't worked out for a good while now, and it's time to really think hard and long as to whether Russ gives you the best chance at building a championship team.

I increasingly lean towards getting some valuable assets and cap room while they can and trying to build the core for the new era. I think that gives the team the best chance of building a real contender. It isn't without risk, but no dynasty is.

 

[Cyrus12]

Besides the personal hatred or discomfort you may carry towards Russ, do you really want him gone? I’ve read everything from he’s self absorbed to his wife will be happier in a place like NY to salary to…

Tons of attacks on his character. I’m sitting over here in OH like…”wtf”. This is a dude that has focused on community and posts something about God more than any player I can remember. I’m not saying he’s an angel but, attacks on his character seem silly. When he comes out and says he wants to be a Seahawk for life but will be playing somewhere if not here, there’s an uproar. Is he lying? Is that not blatantly honest and true? If you’ve bailed a team out countless times, have watched players like Ungar get whisked away while seeing a guy like Eskridge get taken over Creed, I think you’d get a bit frustrated as well. Nothing against Graham or Dee…just saying we haven’t invested in the line like we should have. If a particular philosophy doesn’t work with the players you have but a different philosophy could, you have to adapt. What we were doing last year before Pete got scared was what the players, and most fans, wanted to see. Two high safeties? Adjust. Stick with your strengths. Don’t tout a run first mentality when you haven’t and refuse to build a top of the line…line.
This isn’t to advocate “Let Russ Cook” but more so of having a bit of faith in a sure shot HOF’er. Balance. Something like what we saw today. Granted, it was Detroit. But, the playcalling and balance between the plays was the best we’ve witnessed all year.

Russ wasn’t the same after the injury this year And, he has his deficiencies. But, do you truly think he won’t be a top 5, maybe top 3 QB next year?

This isn’t 10 years ago. Teams actually have to have good, if not great, QBs to make it these days. Finding a quality QB isn’t something that happens for a team every day. Ask the Bears.

Russ has a lot left in the tank. I’ve got down on him, posted that I would lean towards a rebuild, trade, etc…But when I sit back and look at it holistically, there’s no way in West Texas I’d trade him.

I don't want him gone just to have him gone.

Russ has several innate qualities that make him a special player, namely his absurd deep accuracy throughout his career. No one can take that from him. It's nuts.

Still, I think the time has come where it is more than reasonable to question whether or not he's worth more than what Seattle could get in return.

He's got some glaring issues that show no real sign of steadily improving, and he's only getting older at 33. He has trouble staying on schedule, he essentially sabotages his offensive line with his erratic pocket movement, and his waning mobility amplifies these issues. Not only that, but it's seeming more and more like he's demanding more of a say despite the quality of his play decreasing.

It hasn't worked out for a good while now, and it's time to really think hard and long as to whether Russ gives you the best chance at building a championship team.

I increasingly lean towards getting some valuable assets and cap room while they can and trying to build the core for the new era. I think that gives the team the best chance of building a real contender. It isn't without risk, but no dynasty is.

This^ well said!

 

[John63]

Are you saying performances like today have been disallowed previously?

If so, that's a bit ludicrous. Why we can't do this week in and week out isn't a mystery.

We were playing the 2nd worst team in the league who was starting their backup qb, which effectively makes them the worst.

Our offense was run based and we committed to it where in games earlier this season, we abandoned the run when it was working so that we could pass ourselves into a futile 2 to 1 pass to run ratio and literally throw games away. That's neither peteball nor Waldronball.

The lions team is not great on defense.

We saw what happened last time we went gaga over a blowout easy win against another weak opponent in Houston, just to show our warts again against a team that could box up our run game just enough and take away what Russ likes to do, leaving him with what he's less capable at.

Russ has raged against being held within the script of a complimentary, run based offense. If he was happy playing team qb, and not chef in the let russ cook, kitchen, that would be one thing. But then you're still faced with the spectre of having a winning enough season, maybe first place in the division, andthem, with teams knowing now hownto stop Russ in ways they didnt during our superbowl years, boxing us up and tossing us out in the first or second round of the playoffs again. There has yet to be a string of games or even one solid game where Russ has shown he can just run a good defense out of their typical kill strategy against us with his arm and ability to consistently distribute the ball and move the chains.

If there were performances like this against quality defenses, whistle to whistle, then the idea of moving on would be more difficult to embrace.

Yes I am saying some stuff has been disallowed, passes over the middle, for one, I also think Waldron was able to get in Wilsons ear this game and had it going his way along with a great O line play that let Penny get off. Several times over the years Pete has clamped down on the offense, players being overheard asking if they can score or if they are going to be allowed to score.

So now Pete is not allowing passes over the middle? Do you know how stupid that sounds? There's literally not one coach passed the high school level that would do that. If Pete meddled to the level fans accuse him of, Bevell would've resigned after 1 season and not 1 OC would've interviewed for that job thereafter. Head coaches that don't specialize on the offensive side of the ball don't call plays, they don't have their own offense, and they don't micromanage. What they will do is say what they want in high leverage game situations sometimes or give general directives like, " I want to run some clock on this drive". They might say at halftime, like the Steelers game, let's get the run game going. They're gonna course correct when their QB has a 2 game meltdown like Russell did last year, AS THEY SHOULD. That's their job.

It would be impossible to be as successful as Pete has been over his career without allowing the coaches under him to do their job. Head coaches have way too much on their plate to micromanage. Hell, even playcalling head coaches often have to relinquish those duties because they end up neglecting other areas of the team. That's not even to mention all 9f the off field support stuff they have to deal with in the building.

Pete has averted using the middle because of the chance of interceptions, tip passes, bounce off's, there has been interviews over the years where he has stated this. That doesn't mean never, 2 minute drills coming from behind, why with Graham, Everett and others we rarely if ever use the seem route which was Graham's bread and butter in New Orleans.

Some of you should read his book. He makes it very clear.

 

[keasley45]

I'm on that page too, we went to SBs with a younger, faster, cheaper Russell along with an elite defense and a punishing run game. Russell isn't getting younger or faster, so cheaper is all that's left. He could get better at reading cover 2 defenses and getting the ball out faster, i.e., on time. Joe Burrow is already doing this stuff in his 2nd year in the league for Cincy, stuff that Russell hasn't shown us in 10 years. That's what Russell would need to do to be worth the money and get the Hawks back to the promised land. Can Russell upgrade his game that way? I'd rather bet on Pete making improvements. Now if BOTH Pete and Russell improved themselves, that would be an amazing result.

It was the LIONS and the Hawks brought a punishing run game that Detroit had to defend. Made Russell's job easier. Having the D get 3 picks to give the O short fields sure didn't hurt either. Also not sure how many D players Lions were missing due to covid, possibly a factor. Damned if Penny didn't *perform* like Lynch today, different styles, but tremendous impact on the game.

I did really like the Cover-0 blitz TD between Russell and DK, that was fantastic. Props to those 2 and Waldron for having that ready and executing.

Also loved the Lockett jet-sweep TD *pass*, fantastic to see. Kudos to Waldron for this play design. I didn't realize it was actually a *forward pass* until the announcers mentioned it was a TD pass to Lockett. Great design; a muffed exchange becomes simply an incomplete pass.

What we saw today was classic Pete-ball. Defense making plays, getting turnovers, offense running the ball and forcing defense to adjust, and Russell making good throws to open receivers against a defense stacked to stop the run, and Russell taking care of the ball. Turnover margin +3 unless I mis-counted.

Pete-ball at it's finest, *except* somehow the offense was green-lit to score the entire game. Maybe Waldron's influence, finally?

I tend to think this is reaction to the pressure and letting Wilson and the offense be what Waldron designed it to be, the defense went bend don't break while allowing the offense to score.

Are you saying performances like today have been disallowed previously?

If so, that's a bit ludicrous. Why we can't do this week in and week out isn't a mystery.

We were playing the 2nd worst team in the league who was starting their backup qb, which effectively makes them the worst.

Our offense was run based and we committed to it where in games earlier this season, we abandoned the run when it was working so that we could pass ourselves into a futile 2 to 1 pass to run ratio and literally throw games away. That's neither peteball nor Waldronball.

The lions team is not great on defense.

We saw what happened last time we went gaga over a blowout easy win against another weak opponent in Houston, just to show our warts again against a team that could box up our run game just enough and take away what Russ likes to do, leaving him with what he's less capable at.

Russ has raged against being held within the script of a complimentary, run based offense. If he was happy playing team qb, and not chef in the let russ cook, kitchen, that would be one thing. But then you're still faced with the spectre of having a winning enough season, maybe first place in the division, andthem, with teams knowing now hownto stop Russ in ways they didnt during our superbowl years, boxing us up and tossing us out in the first or second round of the playoffs again. There has yet to be a string of games or even one solid game where Russ has shown he can just run a good defense out of their typical kill strategy against us with his arm and ability to consistently distribute the ball and move the chains.

If there were performances like this against quality defenses, whistle to whistle, then the idea of moving on would be more difficult to embrace.

Yes I am saying some stuff has been disallowed, passes over the middle, for one, I also think Waldron was able to get in Wilsons ear this game and had it going his way along with a great O line play that let Penny get off. Several times over the years Pete has clamped down on the offense, players being overheard asking if they can score or if they are going to be allowed to score.

Several times this year Pete has been beyond frustrated at the fact that Russ wasn't taking passes that were there over the middle. This idea that Pete won't allow balls to go there is nuts. You don't need anymore proof then to look at the games geno played where he was utilizing the entire field, including the screen game to the flat and short middle.

It's crazy that even when Pete criticizes Russ for not taking the easy ball, and Russ is obstinate in defending his push for the spectacular sideline completion, Pete STILL gets blamed for it.

Russ throws where he does because that's what he wants to do. Pete expressed frustration at the constant long throws when shorter options are there to move the chains... and Russ went on and continued to do it game after game. So if he's going to ignore Pete when he says to not always go for the big pass why the hell would he just go ahead and obey Pete about passes over the middle? Makes zero sense.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yes I am saying some stuff has been disallowed, passes over the middle, for one, I also think Waldron was able to get in Wilsons ear this game and had it going his way along with a great O line play that let Penny get off. Several times over the years Pete has clamped down on the offense, players being overheard asking if they can score or if they are going to be allowed to score.

So now Pete is not allowing passes over the middle? Do you know how stupid that sounds? There's literally not one coach passed the high school level that would do that. If Pete meddled to the level fans accuse him of, Bevell would've resigned after 1 season and not 1 OC would've interviewed for that job thereafter. Head coaches that don't specialize on the offensive side of the ball don't call plays, they don't have their own offense, and they don't micromanage. What they will do is say what they want in high leverage game situations sometimes or give general directives like, " I want to run some clock on this drive". They might say at halftime, like the Steelers game, let's get the run game going. They're gonna course correct when their QB has a 2 game meltdown like Russell did last year, AS THEY SHOULD. That's their job.

It would be impossible to be as successful as Pete has been over his career without allowing the coaches under him to do their job. Head coaches have way too much on their plate to micromanage. Hell, even playcalling head coaches often have to relinquish those duties because they end up neglecting other areas of the team. That's not even to mention all 9f the off field support stuff they have to deal with in the building.

Pete has averted using the middle because of the chance of interceptions, tip passes, bounce off's, there has been interviews over the years where he has stated this. That doesn't mean never, 2 minute drills coming from behind, why with Graham, Everett and others we rarely if ever use the seem route which was Graham's bread and butter in New Orleans.

Some of you should read his book. He makes it very clear.

You're quoting material that is over a decade old.

A whole lotta stuff has changed since then.

 

[keasley45]

Yes I am saying some stuff has been disallowed, passes over the middle, for one, I also think Waldron was able to get in Wilsons ear this game and had it going his way along with a great O line play that let Penny get off. Several times over the years Pete has clamped down on the offense, players being overheard asking if they can score or if they are going to be allowed to score.

So now Pete is not allowing passes over the middle? Do you know how stupid that sounds? There's literally not one coach passed the high school level that would do that. If Pete meddled to the level fans accuse him of, Bevell would've resigned after 1 season and not 1 OC would've interviewed for that job thereafter. Head coaches that don't specialize on the offensive side of the ball don't call plays, they don't have their own offense, and they don't micromanage. What they will do is say what they want in high leverage game situations sometimes or give general directives like, " I want to run some clock on this drive". They might say at halftime, like the Steelers game, let's get the run game going. They're gonna course correct when their QB has a 2 game meltdown like Russell did last year, AS THEY SHOULD. That's their job.

It would be impossible to be as successful as Pete has been over his career without allowing the coaches under him to do their job. Head coaches have way too much on their plate to micromanage. Hell, even playcalling head coaches often have to relinquish those duties because they end up neglecting other areas of the team. That's not even to mention all 9f the off field support stuff they have to deal with in the building.

Pete has averted using the middle because of the chance of interceptions, tip passes, bounce off's, there has been interviews over the years where he has stated this. That doesn't mean never, 2 minute drills coming from behind, why with Graham, Everett and others we rarely if ever use the seem route which was Graham's bread and butter in New Orleans.

Some of you should read his book. He makes it very clear.

I'm familiar with his books (his and Bisheff's book on him)

This has been discussed adnausium. There's a difference between avoiding high risk throws on a regular basis and deleting 1/3rd of the field. Throws in the middle are inherently riskier, but that doesn't mean that every route that hits the middle is risky and should be avoided.

Nor does it make sense to 'disallow' wide open wrs because they are in the middle of the field, but then be ok with ridiculously low percentage throws up the sideline 30 yards in double coverage when you only need 6 yards to move the chains. Something Pete has gone on record about a few times this season.

I'm pretty sure the pass distribution chart when geno played was posted and showed a fairly 'normal' use of the middle of the field vs Russ rarely throwing there. So that would have to mean Geno is ignoring Pete, or that Pete trusts Geno more than Russ and changed the 'mandate'.

I get avoiding throws over the middle in traffic. But the throws in question this season and last in several games were to wide open receivers that Russ just either overlooked or chose to ignore. Doesn't make sense that Pete woukd say to not throw there, and then go on record criticizing Russ for not doing it.

Could it be we looked great against the lions because they are next to last in sacks, 24th in plays allowed over 20 yards, 24th in plays allowed over 40 yards, 29th in opposing qb qbr, and 29th in total rushing yards allowed. Not to mention they were starting a backup qb.

 

[jeremiah]

No I dont want Russ gone. Pete Carroll on the other hand,,,,,,,yes, I REALLY want him gone.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
All of the above.... Get a new HC, and let him stew up ideas with Schneider. Let THEM decide and I will live with that.

I firmly believe that they have a unique chance to trade RW and DK, and get back enough draft capital build a better team, and in the middle of that find a used QB close to the equal of Russ at this stage.

Yes, trade Lockett, Wilson, Wagner, Diggs, Adams, DK, Jones, Reid, Taylor, Green, Collier, Brooks, Robinson and anyone else that can get a Draft pick, we will have a lot of fun Draft day going forward.

Just Russ and DK would be fine, cut Wagner keep Lockett around as he is a keeper until he retires. Restructure Adams ..

 

[Yxes1122]

No one wants to part with a franchise QB.

But I don't think Russell Wilson has another SB season in Seattle. Not even if you took every offensive weapon from the Chiefs and Eric Bieniemy. And it's because I recognize that Russell Wilson is not Patrick Mahomes. He's also not Manning or Brees or Brady.

Scottemojo called it in the Russ's rookie year and I think it becomes truer by the season; Russ's career most closely mirror's Big Ben. They do it in different ways, but Big Ben was a play extending, deep ball master that rode an elite defense to multiple SBs and then couldn't get back even when he had elite offensive weapons like AB, Bell and Bryant all playing together in their prime. Big Ben also wasn't MVP also never won MVP.

Big Ben also churned through OCs and is notoriously prickly when told to play in a system. Big Ben and Russ have limitations to their game that you can't fix and have to coach around.

You can give Russell Wilson every weapon Brady has in TB, and Mahomes has in KC and it won't look the same because Russ is not that player. It doesn't make him not elite. Big Ben was elite for years. It's just both Big Ben and Russ are outside of structure players and that style does not age well. And it's difficult to coach and build a roster around.

I find it so funny that Pete is so disregarded on this board. Winningest Coach in Franchise History. Top 5 Winningest Coach of the last Decade in the NFL. Top 3 in Playoff Appearances.

Meanwhile, they've had some of the worst injury history of the last few years. Lost Earl, Sherm, Kam, Avril to injury before any trade value could be realized. McDowell never played a down and is a good player in Cleveland despite not playing a down in the NFL for 4 years. Penny has been hurt and finally looks good. Dissly being lost for season early in his career. Blair 2 season ending injuries. Lockett limited multiple years late in the season.

And, as Hawkblogger has pointed out, multiple players (who should have an axe to grind against Pete) have come out in his defense at the end of the season. Where is the support of Russ?

Has Duane Brown come out and stood for Russ? What about DK? DK who a year ago was his biggest advocate for MVP? At this point, it almost feels like keeping Russ means losing DK. Where's Lockett? Or Doug, Kearse, Zach Miller, Jimmy Graham, anyone other than Greg Olsen who earned $7 mil last season for 24 catches and 1 TD because Russ wanted him?

Due to age, I don't know if Pete has a rebuild in him. But I think there is a clear favorite when it comes to who players rally behind in Seattle.

So to round it all up, no I don't want to see Russ go. But given the choice between Russ and Pete? I think Pete has a better chance to carry us to a SB than Russ. I don't think Russ is as focused on winning as he is on stats/MVPs/legacy, and I don't think this Russ is good for the culture of the team.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Both yes and no. I have complicated feelings about Russell Wilson. One thing we have to realize is that if we have to get rid of Wilson, finding a suitable replacement is going to be EXTREMELY hard. No matter what you feel about the player, that is one fact that you have to accept. It could be many years before we find a QB that is even serviceable.

On the other hand, I think we need to come to terms with a few things. The first is the lack of control that Pete, Schneider, or even a new coach will have over the situation. Russell Wilson has complete control over his own destiny. His contract stipulates that there is a no-trade clause. This means if he were to be traded, it was because he willed it to be so.

The second thing I think we're going to see is another off-season where Wilson potentially holds the franchise hostage. In Wilson's recent statements they are dripping with the type of doublespeak one would typically associate from Washington DC. Statements such as: “I know for me personally, I hope it's not my last game. But at the same time, I know it won't be my last game in the NFL." coming from a guy that has a no-trade clause in his contract strikes me as being extremely peculiar. In addition to that, his contract is such that cutting him is not really feasible. Wilson knows full well what he is doing. He's exerting power over the franchise and the front office with statements like this. At the very least, I suspect he's trying to get more involved in the player acquisition aspect, at the worst he's trying to force himself out.

If he were to force himself out, I wouldn't know what to think. On one hand, Wilson is, and always has been streaky as a player. His stats didn't always tell the story of whole halves of ineffectiveness, missed reads, 20 yard sacks, inability for the team to move balls for large swaths of seasons. After analyzing Wilson's playing some more, many of these failings are on Wilson himself. He plays an extremely limited game. He doesn't like to go to the middle, his timing and placement has always been wonky on the short passes. He also has always been over-indulgent when it comes to going for the big play. I'd contend that he has never been as good as his statistics say. That being said, flaws aside he's still been a better QB than most of the NFL has had floating anywhere from top 10 to top 3 over the years.

His improvisational and ability to create from thin air and move around were magical. He also had a moxie about him in the fourth quarter. His eyes would go dead and he would come back from impossible deficits. He's great in so many ways but in others he hasn't developed at all. His fundamentals in many respects are all over the place. His pocket presence is REALLY bad, more so that now his mobility isn't what it used to be. His ball placement on short, to short-intermediate routes is very bad. His ability to quickly diagnose things pre-snap has also been brought into question. Teams have been throwing disguised looks at him that he's struggled to diagnose ever since the NYG game and the infamous Cardinal game last season.

Quite frankly, our QB is an enigma and aberrations in many senses. I don't think I've ever seen a QB quite like Russell in the NFL. I think in Russ's case he needs an above average run game to function properly, more so than other QB's. Wilson is an elite game manager QB. He's never going to orchestrate an offense like Brady or Manning could, but if you give him the right tools he can win a lot of games for you and put up MVP level stats. The problem is, I don't think Wilson understands his flaws as a player. His rebuttal to the Lockett statement about teams switching things up post snap and "us" not diagnosing it is telling.

I think Carroll has also facilitated this huge holes in Wilson's game. I see a player that isn't held accountable, I see a guy that is living in his own world and refuses criticism. The demeanor of some of the players we had on the Seahawks over the years towards Wilson is telling. This is Carroll's fatal flaw as a head coach here. He's refused to hold Wilson accountable, and he's designed simplistic offenses that encourage players to be themselves. The downside is, it has put a huge hindrance on the development of Russell Wilson and has enabled him in the wrong ways.

Now, what should the Seahawks do? It's tough to tell. The relationship between Wilson and Carroll seems to be toxic in many ways. There is a great disconnect here. Can they repair it? I don't know. If they don't repair the relationship Wilson is going to fade away into obscurity. His play has been all over the place even before the injury. Teams with the right personnel have been able to make him largely ineffective. He's slowing down and he doesn't seem to be able to recognize that yet. Whether Wilson recovers will depend on whether or not he's able to dig down into himself and self-reflect. Players such as Steve Young, Rodgers, Tarkenton, and Cunningham were able to adapt once they starting losing some of their athleticism. Others, such as Donavon McNabb faded into obscurity.

If Carroll stays, I'm not sure if Wilson will ever be able to rise above himself. His struggles have been going on for far longer than his friends death, and injury. I'm not sure what the answer is. I know finding a QB is EXTREMELY hard, but I'm also aware that sometimes you have to know when to cut bait. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

 

[John63]

Both yes and no. I have complicated feelings about Russell Wilson. One thing we have to realize is that if we have to get rid of Wilson, finding a suitable replacement is going to be EXTREMELY hard. No matter what you feel about the player, that is one fact that you have to accept. It could be many years before we find a QB that is even serviceable.

On the other hand, I think we need to come to terms with a few things. The first is the lack of control that Pete, Schneider, or even a new coach will have over the situation. Russell Wilson has complete control over his own destiny. His contract stipulates that there is a no-trade clause. This means if he were to be traded, it was because he willed it to be so.

The second thing I think we're going to see is another off-season where Wilson potentially holds the franchise hostage. In Wilson's recent statements they are dripping with the type of doublespeak one would typically associate from Washington DC. Statements such as: “I know for me personally, I hope it's not my last game. But at the same time, I know it won't be my last game in the NFL." coming from a guy that has a no-trade clause in his contract strikes me as being extremely peculiar. In addition to that, his contract is such that cutting him is not really feasible. Wilson knows full well what he is doing. He's exerting power over the franchise and the front office with statements like this. At the very least, I suspect he's trying to get more involved in the player acquisition aspect, at the worst he's trying to force himself out.

If he were to force himself out, I wouldn't know what to think. On one hand, Wilson is, and always has been streaky as a player. His stats didn't always tell the story of whole halves of ineffectiveness, missed reads, 20 yard sacks, inability for the team to move balls for large swaths of seasons. After analyzing Wilson's playing some more, many of these failings are on Wilson himself. He plays an extremely limited game. He doesn't like to go to the middle, his timing and placement has always been wonky on the short passes. He also has always been over-indulgent when it comes to going for the big play. I'd contend that he has never been as good as his statistics say. That being said, flaws aside he's still been a better QB than most of the NFL has had floating anywhere from top 10 to top 3 over the years.

His improvisational and ability to create from thin air and move around were magical. He also had a moxie about him in the fourth quarter. His eyes would go dead and he would come back from impossible deficits. He's great in so many ways but in others he hasn't developed at all. His fundamentals in many respects are all over the place. His pocket presence is REALLY bad, more so that now his mobility isn't what it used to be. His ball placement on short, to short-intermediate routes is very bad. His ability to quickly diagnose things pre-snap has also been brought into question. Teams have been throwing disguised looks at him that he's struggled to diagnose ever since the NYG game and the infamous Cardinal game last season.

Quite frankly, our QB is an enigma and aberrations in many senses. I don't think I've ever seen a QB quite like Russell in the NFL. I think in Russ's case he needs an above average run game to function properly, more so than other QB's. Wilson is an elite game manager QB. He's never going to orchestrate an offense like Brady or Manning could, but if you give him the right tools he can win a lot of games for you and put up MVP level stats. The problem is, I don't think Wilson understands his flaws as a player. His rebuttal to the Lockett statement about teams switching things up post snap and "us" not diagnosing it is telling.

I think Carroll has also facilitated this huge holes in Wilson's game. I see a player that isn't held accountable, I see a guy that is living in his own world and refuses criticism. The demeanor of some of the players we had on the Seahawks over the years towards Wilson is telling. This is Carroll's fatal flaw as a head coach here. He's refused to hold Wilson accountable, and he's designed simplistic offenses that encourage players to be themselves. The downside is, it has put a huge hindrance on the development of Russell Wilson and has enabled him in the wrong ways.

Now, what should the Seahawks do? It's tough to tell. The relationship between Wilson and Carroll seems to be toxic in many ways. There is a great disconnect here. Can they repair it? I don't know. If they don't repair the relationship Wilson is going to fade away into obscurity. His play has been all over the place even before the injury. Teams with the right personnel have been able to make him largely ineffective. He's slowing down and he doesn't seem to be able to recognize that yet. Whether Wilson recovers will depend on whether or not he's able to dig down into himself and self-reflect. Players such as Steve Young, Rodgers, Tarkenton, and Cunningham were able to adapt once they starting losing some of their athleticism. Others, such as Donavon McNabb faded into obscurity.

If Carroll stays, I'm not sure if Wilson will ever be able to rise above himself. His struggles have been going on for far longer than his friends death, and injury. I'm not sure what the answer is. I know finding a QB is EXTREMELY hard, but I'm also aware that sometimes you have to know when to cut bait. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

ukeface:

 

[Maelstrom787]

Both yes and no. I have complicated feelings about Russell Wilson. One thing we have to realize is that if we have to get rid of Wilson, finding a suitable replacement is going to be EXTREMELY hard. No matter what you feel about the player, that is one fact that you have to accept. It could be many years before we find a QB that is even serviceable.

On the other hand, I think we need to come to terms with a few things. The first is the lack of control that Pete, Schneider, or even a new coach will have over the situation. Russell Wilson has complete control over his own destiny. His contract stipulates that there is a no-trade clause. This means if he were to be traded, it was because he willed it to be so.

The second thing I think we're going to see is another off-season where Wilson potentially holds the franchise hostage. In Wilson's recent statements they are dripping with the type of doublespeak one would typically associate from Washington DC. Statements such as: “I know for me personally, I hope it's not my last game. But at the same time, I know it won't be my last game in the NFL." coming from a guy that has a no-trade clause in his contract strikes me as being extremely peculiar. In addition to that, his contract is such that cutting him is not really feasible. Wilson knows full well what he is doing. He's exerting power over the franchise and the front office with statements like this. At the very least, I suspect he's trying to get more involved in the player acquisition aspect, at the worst he's trying to force himself out.

If he were to force himself out, I wouldn't know what to think. On one hand, Wilson is, and always has been streaky as a player. His stats didn't always tell the story of whole halves of ineffectiveness, missed reads, 20 yard sacks, inability for the team to move balls for large swaths of seasons. After analyzing Wilson's playing some more, many of these failings are on Wilson himself. He plays an extremely limited game. He doesn't like to go to the middle, his timing and placement has always been wonky on the short passes. He also has always been over-indulgent when it comes to going for the big play. I'd contend that he has never been as good as his statistics say. That being said, flaws aside he's still been a better QB than most of the NFL has had floating anywhere from top 10 to top 3 over the years.

His improvisational and ability to create from thin air and move around were magical. He also had a moxie about him in the fourth quarter. His eyes would go dead and he would come back from impossible deficits. He's great in so many ways but in others he hasn't developed at all. His fundamentals in many respects are all over the place. His pocket presence is REALLY bad, more so that now his mobility isn't what it used to be. His ball placement on short, to short-intermediate routes is very bad. His ability to quickly diagnose things pre-snap has also been brought into question. Teams have been throwing disguised looks at him that he's struggled to diagnose ever since the NYG game and the infamous Cardinal game last season.

Quite frankly, our QB is an enigma and aberrations in many senses. I don't think I've ever seen a QB quite like Russell in the NFL. I think in Russ's case he needs an above average run game to function properly, more so than other QB's. Wilson is an elite game manager QB. He's never going to orchestrate an offense like Brady or Manning could, but if you give him the right tools he can win a lot of games for you and put up MVP level stats. The problem is, I don't think Wilson understands his flaws as a player. His rebuttal to the Lockett statement about teams switching things up post snap and "us" not diagnosing it is telling.

I think Carroll has also facilitated this huge holes in Wilson's game. I see a player that isn't held accountable, I see a guy that is living in his own world and refuses criticism. The demeanor of some of the players we had on the Seahawks over the years towards Wilson is telling. This is Carroll's fatal flaw as a head coach here. He's refused to hold Wilson accountable, and he's designed simplistic offenses that encourage players to be themselves. The downside is, it has put a huge hindrance on the development of Russell Wilson and has enabled him in the wrong ways.

Now, what should the Seahawks do? It's tough to tell. The relationship between Wilson and Carroll seems to be toxic in many ways. There is a great disconnect here. Can they repair it? I don't know. If they don't repair the relationship Wilson is going to fade away into obscurity. His play has been all over the place even before the injury. Teams with the right personnel have been able to make him largely ineffective. He's slowing down and he doesn't seem to be able to recognize that yet. Whether Wilson recovers will depend on whether or not he's able to dig down into himself and self-reflect. Players such as Steve Young, Rodgers, Tarkenton, and Cunningham were able to adapt once they starting losing some of their athleticism. Others, such as Donavon McNabb faded into obscurity.

If Carroll stays, I'm not sure if Wilson will ever be able to rise above himself. His struggles have been going on for far longer than his friends death, and injury. I'm not sure what the answer is. I know finding a QB is EXTREMELY hard, but I'm also aware that sometimes you have to know when to cut bait. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

ukeface:

Hey, look, a completely worthless reply to a well thought out post.

You must be very proud.

Your reply reminds me of a Russell Wilson throw on third down. It was never really goin' anywhere to begin with.

 

[John63]

Both yes and no. I have complicated feelings about Russell Wilson. One thing we have to realize is that if we have to get rid of Wilson, finding a suitable replacement is going to be EXTREMELY hard. No matter what you feel about the player, that is one fact that you have to accept. It could be many years before we find a QB that is even serviceable.

On the other hand, I think we need to come to terms with a few things. The first is the lack of control that Pete, Schneider, or even a new coach will have over the situation. Russell Wilson has complete control over his own destiny. His contract stipulates that there is a no-trade clause. This means if he were to be traded, it was because he willed it to be so.

The second thing I think we're going to see is another off-season where Wilson potentially holds the franchise hostage. In Wilson's recent statements they are dripping with the type of doublespeak one would typically associate from Washington DC. Statements such as: “I know for me personally, I hope it's not my last game. But at the same time, I know it won't be my last game in the NFL." coming from a guy that has a no-trade clause in his contract strikes me as being extremely peculiar. In addition to that, his contract is such that cutting him is not really feasible. Wilson knows full well what he is doing. He's exerting power over the franchise and the front office with statements like this. At the very least, I suspect he's trying to get more involved in the player acquisition aspect, at the worst he's trying to force himself out.

If he were to force himself out, I wouldn't know what to think. On one hand, Wilson is, and always has been streaky as a player. His stats didn't always tell the story of whole halves of ineffectiveness, missed reads, 20 yard sacks, inability for the team to move balls for large swaths of seasons. After analyzing Wilson's playing some more, many of these failings are on Wilson himself. He plays an extremely limited game. He doesn't like to go to the middle, his timing and placement has always been wonky on the short passes. He also has always been over-indulgent when it comes to going for the big play. I'd contend that he has never been as good as his statistics say. That being said, flaws aside he's still been a better QB than most of the NFL has had floating anywhere from top 10 to top 3 over the years.

His improvisational and ability to create from thin air and move around were magical. He also had a moxie about him in the fourth quarter. His eyes would go dead and he would come back from impossible deficits. He's great in so many ways but in others he hasn't developed at all. His fundamentals in many respects are all over the place. His pocket presence is REALLY bad, more so that now his mobility isn't what it used to be. His ball placement on short, to short-intermediate routes is very bad. His ability to quickly diagnose things pre-snap has also been brought into question. Teams have been throwing disguised looks at him that he's struggled to diagnose ever since the NYG game and the infamous Cardinal game last season.

Quite frankly, our QB is an enigma and aberrations in many senses. I don't think I've ever seen a QB quite like Russell in the NFL. I think in Russ's case he needs an above average run game to function properly, more so than other QB's. Wilson is an elite game manager QB. He's never going to orchestrate an offense like Brady or Manning could, but if you give him the right tools he can win a lot of games for you and put up MVP level stats. The problem is, I don't think Wilson understands his flaws as a player. His rebuttal to the Lockett statement about teams switching things up post snap and "us" not diagnosing it is telling.

I think Carroll has also facilitated this huge holes in Wilson's game. I see a player that isn't held accountable, I see a guy that is living in his own world and refuses criticism. The demeanor of some of the players we had on the Seahawks over the years towards Wilson is telling. This is Carroll's fatal flaw as a head coach here. He's refused to hold Wilson accountable, and he's designed simplistic offenses that encourage players to be themselves. The downside is, it has put a huge hindrance on the development of Russell Wilson and has enabled him in the wrong ways.

Now, what should the Seahawks do? It's tough to tell. The relationship between Wilson and Carroll seems to be toxic in many ways. There is a great disconnect here. Can they repair it? I don't know. If they don't repair the relationship Wilson is going to fade away into obscurity. His play has been all over the place even before the injury. Teams with the right personnel have been able to make him largely ineffective. He's slowing down and he doesn't seem to be able to recognize that yet. Whether Wilson recovers will depend on whether or not he's able to dig down into himself and self-reflect. Players such as Steve Young, Rodgers, Tarkenton, and Cunningham were able to adapt once they starting losing some of their athleticism. Others, such as Donavon McNabb faded into obscurity.

If Carroll stays, I'm not sure if Wilson will ever be able to rise above himself. His struggles have been going on for far longer than his friends death, and injury. I'm not sure what the answer is. I know finding a QB is EXTREMELY hard, but I'm also aware that sometimes you have to know when to cut bait. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

ukeface:

Hey, look, a completely worthless reply to a well thought out post.

You must be very proud.

Your reply reminds me of a Russell Wilson throw on third down. It was never really goin' anywhere to begin with.

Pot kettle dude. To you it was well thought out. To me is was garbage.

 

[DJ_CJ]

No. Absolutely not. Completely has had his share of off games and moments that accountable for but has had way more the other way by far. That dude’s mindset and work ethic is rarely matched. Worked for it his entire life and always strives to be better. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a first ballot HOF’r been revered by his own fan base so much to in an off moment instance notice to be called overrated, mediocre. The guy wants to win, period. IR’d with a surgery yet still running ghost warm up plays on the field. Furthermore I just love who the guy is, sometimes its over the top with his preaching/good will but that who he is, its not fake. In this day and age knowing athletes are human and shouldnt have my kids solely look up to them with what can happen. But that guy I can equivocally have both my kids look up to him, person he is and also the drive of always being told not good enough, not big enough…worked his ass off to prove them all wrong. Seattle was blessed with 2 of the most talented and transcending humans to ever grace the pros in him and Griffey.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TwistedHusky]

Lots of talk about how Wilson is flawed. Some is valid.

Wilson is going to have a challenge, after having been drilled in his head to play QB one way - to be able to make some of those throws and reads he did not have to before. He has some bad habits and those will be difficult to unlearn.

What is not acknowledged is that while Wilson is flawed, Pete is even more flawed.

And because Pete is both HC and FO, doing twice to five times more damage. Also, since Pete is the root of most of our problems, getting rid of Wilson fixes little...it just makes you worse at some of things you needed to do in order to compensate for Pete.

Pete is worthless right now. (Technically he has negative worth, since like a cancer the longer he stays the worse it will be).

Wilson has worth.

So I understand the short-sighted approach that feels at least getting something from him is better than nothing. And if there is zero chance of keeping him...even with another coach, it makes sense. But I don't agree there was zero chance of keeping him.

There was, however, zero chance once we made clear we chose Pete over Wilson, which was terminally stupid.

 

[keasley45]

Both yes and no. I have complicated feelings about Russell Wilson. One thing we have to realize is that if we have to get rid of Wilson, finding a suitable replacement is going to be EXTREMELY hard. No matter what you feel about the player, that is one fact that you have to accept. It could be many years before we find a QB that is even serviceable.

On the other hand, I think we need to come to terms with a few things. The first is the lack of control that Pete, Schneider, or even a new coach will have over the situation. Russell Wilson has complete control over his own destiny. His contract stipulates that there is a no-trade clause. This means if he were to be traded, it was because he willed it to be so.

The second thing I think we're going to see is another off-season where Wilson potentially holds the franchise hostage. In Wilson's recent statements they are dripping with the type of doublespeak one would typically associate from Washington DC. Statements such as: “I know for me personally, I hope it's not my last game. But at the same time, I know it won't be my last game in the NFL." coming from a guy that has a no-trade clause in his contract strikes me as being extremely peculiar. In addition to that, his contract is such that cutting him is not really feasible. Wilson knows full well what he is doing. He's exerting power over the franchise and the front office with statements like this. At the very least, I suspect he's trying to get more involved in the player acquisition aspect, at the worst he's trying to force himself out.

If he were to force himself out, I wouldn't know what to think. On one hand, Wilson is, and always has been streaky as a player. His stats didn't always tell the story of whole halves of ineffectiveness, missed reads, 20 yard sacks, inability for the team to move balls for large swaths of seasons. After analyzing Wilson's playing some more, many of these failings are on Wilson himself. He plays an extremely limited game. He doesn't like to go to the middle, his timing and placement has always been wonky on the short passes. He also has always been over-indulgent when it comes to going for the big play. I'd contend that he has never been as good as his statistics say. That being said, flaws aside he's still been a better QB than most of the NFL has had floating anywhere from top 10 to top 3 over the years.

His improvisational and ability to create from thin air and move around were magical. He also had a moxie about him in the fourth quarter. His eyes would go dead and he would come back from impossible deficits. He's great in so many ways but in others he hasn't developed at all. His fundamentals in many respects are all over the place. His pocket presence is REALLY bad, more so that now his mobility isn't what it used to be. His ball placement on short, to short-intermediate routes is very bad. His ability to quickly diagnose things pre-snap has also been brought into question. Teams have been throwing disguised looks at him that he's struggled to diagnose ever since the NYG game and the infamous Cardinal game last season.

Quite frankly, our QB is an enigma and aberrations in many senses. I don't think I've ever seen a QB quite like Russell in the NFL. I think in Russ's case he needs an above average run game to function properly, more so than other QB's. Wilson is an elite game manager QB. He's never going to orchestrate an offense like Brady or Manning could, but if you give him the right tools he can win a lot of games for you and put up MVP level stats. The problem is, I don't think Wilson understands his flaws as a player. His rebuttal to the Lockett statement about teams switching things up post snap and "us" not diagnosing it is telling.

I think Carroll has also facilitated this huge holes in Wilson's game. I see a player that isn't held accountable, I see a guy that is living in his own world and refuses criticism. The demeanor of some of the players we had on the Seahawks over the years towards Wilson is telling. This is Carroll's fatal flaw as a head coach here. He's refused to hold Wilson accountable, and he's designed simplistic offenses that encourage players to be themselves. The downside is, it has put a huge hindrance on the development of Russell Wilson and has enabled him in the wrong ways.

Now, what should the Seahawks do? It's tough to tell. The relationship between Wilson and Carroll seems to be toxic in many ways. There is a great disconnect here. Can they repair it? I don't know. If they don't repair the relationship Wilson is going to fade away into obscurity. His play has been all over the place even before the injury. Teams with the right personnel have been able to make him largely ineffective. He's slowing down and he doesn't seem to be able to recognize that yet. Whether Wilson recovers will depend on whether or not he's able to dig down into himself and self-reflect. Players such as Steve Young, Rodgers, Tarkenton, and Cunningham were able to adapt once they starting losing some of their athleticism. Others, such as Donavon McNabb faded into obscurity.

If Carroll stays, I'm not sure if Wilson will ever be able to rise above himself. His struggles have been going on for far longer than his friends death, and injury. I'm not sure what the answer is. I know finding a QB is EXTREMELY hard, but I'm also aware that sometimes you have to know when to cut bait. I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.

To quote J63, -THIS^^

Well thought out post. The Pete hate is crazy. Last year would have looked a lot like this one had 'hapless' Pete not changed the trajectory of the offense. And this year, although their gamble to assemble an interior pass rush failed, the fact that they still managed to finish top 10 in scoring defense is pretty incredible. The fact that they are now doing it missing key pieces is nuts.

Pete's flaw is exactly what you said. Believing in some cases a bit too much in allowing players to do what they do and be who they are. It's his strength in that in many cases, you harness the best a player has to offer and uncover brilliance that they wouldn't or couldn't find elsewhere. But at the QB position with Wilson, his embracing Russ's strengths and weaknesses and building a system around them has to degree (and I think more because Russ isn't aware of his weaknesses) cemented who he is, good and bad. And now, when his game needs to shift to compensate for how defenses play him and his diminishing ability to run himself out of the troubles he sometimes creates for himself, he has neither the awareness and maybe now also less the ability to unlearn 10 years of habits to do what needs to be done. Russ, like any man or professional is ultimately responsible for his own improvement, but Pete has been complicit in creating who Russ is today. I think he just always believed Russ would believe in the system more than he did his own hype.