Can Russel Wilson become an Elite pocket passer?

[MizzouHawkGal]

...

 

[Yxes1122]

I think people don't understand what i originally posted.

The only guys in the NFL that anyone can consider an Elite pocket passer is the Big 4 QBs. A QB that can make plays from the Pocket without to many Turnovers. Saying wilson is in this same league after 2 years is disrespectful. I love Russ but lets not get carried away.

This is the credit i give Russ.
Out of the younger generation of QB i believe, Kam, Luck, and wilson are the top of that group in no specific order.
They all elite in their own way, and i don't believe wilson outshadows any of them. Saying so is just your inner 12 talking because they are all exceptional QB. Wilson plays on a better team than all these QB's, and so he isn't asked to take the same kind of risks these other QB's are asked to take. Its not a knock on Wilson, but its true. He has the advantage of playing EXTREMELY cautious.
Right now, i believe Luck has shown the most potential to be an Elite pocket passer, and i personally feel the others have not. This is just because of the way their teams are built.

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

I actually think your inner 12 is discrediting Russell. You're letting yourself say that Wilson has an immense amount of talent around him and it is, perhaps, masking his flaws. And I'd actually say, right now our offense does more to hinder Russell than let him showcase his talents. In my eyes (and to echo Kearly), our O-line was a disaster this year, particularly inside. There are a lot of times I think Russell doesn't step up because of poor throwing lanes. Interior protection is important for any QB, but more so for short ones like Brees and Russell. When Brees won his ring, he did so with two Pro Bowl Guards, Russell did it with James Carptenter/Paul Mcquistan/Sweezy.

Secondly, Pete stresses ball security more than anything. And that's why you see Russell lock it down when he's not feeling it. Even in some of the SoundFX clips you can hear Pete calling out the coverages and preaching "Be Smart".

Every single time we have turned to Wilson and said, "Win it for us". He has. In Detroit, in Miami, in Chicago and in Atlanta he put us in a position to win, only to have our Defense fail. In Houston this year and against TB. And even had our D not played lights out against Denver, I have no doubt Wilson would've won that game. All you need to do is look at his 3rd Down efficiency in the SB to know that. Take a poor spot and a fantastic defensive play and the score is 16-0 instead of 8. And you can't put either of those on Russell.

It's easy to think that Russell has benefited from an ocean of talent and, in terms of Defense and Special Teams, he definitely has. And Lynch is a fantastic back. But let's not forget, before Russell came, Tate was being talked about as if he was a bust, as was Sidney Rice. Anthony McCoy was getting calls to be axed and, after Russell showed up, took several steps forward. If you define elite as, "He's going to put up monster stats year in and year out" than, no, at the moment, he isn't elite. But if you define elite/franchise QB as "Someone who elevates the play of those around him" than Russell most definitely is.

 

[Lady Talon]

I don't want him in the Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers club. Their time is coming to a close. Russ is cutting edge, the elite dinosaurs might be replaced by Luck, if he doesn't keep intercepting himself out of the conversation.

 

[nsport]

The question to ask is not whether he can become an elite pocket passer - although I am sure there is plenty of merit and is a tempting question to answer.

I would turn the question upside down and say, out of 31 other teams, which ones think they have it better than we do? Which of them would value RW higher than their own guy?

In the NFCW - possibly Kaepernick.
In the NFCN - possibly Rodgers
In the NFCS - possibly Newton
In the NFCE - Anyone???
In the AFCW - Anyone??? Certainly not Manning at his age
In the AFCE - possibly Brady
In the AFCS - possibly Luck, who I think is behind RW's level of development
In the AFCN - Nobody... push comes to shove you might take Roethlisberger.

So really worst case scenario here we are talking about RW already being in the top 3rd of the league as far as QB's and their development go. Pocket passing is a feature only those who can't scramble can appreciate fully. Why should my QB have to depend on a perfect performance by the OL in order to be considered elite? I don't think he does. As a matter of fact, if our OL improves only marginally, I think we can honestly say we have a top 5 QB without any debate. Some of the improvement aspects noted in this thread (better recognition of open receivers, bailing out of the pocket early, making more accurate passes) are all things that will continue to develop - so yea, I'm good with Mr. Wilson. He's achieved already far beyond my wildest dreams, and I'm sure he has plenty left to show us for the next decade.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Wow! Only 2 posts in and you explain my view better than myself! Kudos, and welcome to. Net.

 

[dontbelikethat]

Just need a bit more from Wilson before I can call him elite and I don't know if I ever will see enough due to how the offense is ran. The only elite Qb's for me are the big 4 (Manning,Brady,Rodgers,Brees). Wilson is in that next tier though and he's very close to becoming elite. I'll say this though, he is incredibly efficient, but I don't know if he could do what he did in the 2nd half of the ATL game last year on a consistent basis.

So you need to see Wilson throw for 385 yards on a consistent basis before you will consider him to be among the elite qb's? At least you have established a bar. Are you at least willing to amortize it based on the limited number of attempts Russell is given? Also 3 of the big 4 can't run to save their lives much less to pick up a key first down. Can we maybe allow Russ a small curve based on that?

Lol I would like to see him take over a game and have the offense lean on him like he did in ATL, but I don't know if that'll ever happen due to offensive philosophy. You're taking things so out of context just to try and bash an opinion. I'm not yet 100% sure we can rely on him if our defense lays an egg. Yeah Wilson can use his legs which is good, but the other QB's are so good at what they do as a passer that it negates the lack of mobility. Obviously give Wilson credit that he can run, but I think it's hard compare him as a passer to the big 4 this early when those guys have year of years of consistency as a great passer.

Except he has done in it in other games than Atl, say Chicago, the first NO game and I can go on, he has 8 4ht qtr comeback wins in 2 years that means he did it 8 times. You keep saying RW has his legs but you keep forgetting he has a higher passer rating in the pocket than out, so ye she has legs, he also is a great pocket passer. In my opinion your issue is nothing more than passing yards, and if that is what makes an Elite WB then someone better tell Montana he is not Elite.

You named 3 games and 8 comebacks if you can go on and on, please name them, and all those comebacks are not solely on him and I'm not saying it has to be, but how much was he a factor in all of them? You also have to take things into context, were we possibly losing early possibly because of his play and our D kept us in the game and then Wilson made a final drive that was well but played poorly through out the game or was it the D that kept giving up points and Wilson was dueling it out scoring a ton? I can't say for certain one thing or another. Also like I said, he is incredibly efficient (high rating) and he is definitely a good pocket passer, but at times he's been a bit off his game this year (both STL,2nd NO game,both SF,HOU,NYG,2nd ARZ game). You can blame it on the OLine or give credit to their defenses, but it's the same thing when you judge another QB playing our defense. Passing yards =/= elite, but it gives a little bit of an indication how the offensive is rolling and it's not a sole way to judge someone, but that along with the eye test seems like Wilson is just leaving a little bit more to be desired. I'm not saying we're winning in spite of him and he definitely contributes to wins obviously, but I'm just not sure we could consistently rely on him if our defense wasn't so good AS OF RIGHT NOW. I hope he does that next step and it definitely looks like he will, but I just don't know if he is that good right now. Some of you guys take it as such a slight to Wilson if we don't call him elite even though I said he was a tier right under elite. Dude is in his second year and almost as good as some of the GOAT which is amazing in itself. I just want to see him be able to do it little longer and see him do it after his big pay day when he pretty much has to always take over.

 

[Kakaww]

Not even going to try and define Elite, as it probably differs from person to person.

So, I will just have some fun here. No, I'm not saying Wilson is Montana. Also realize it was a different era.

1989 - Joe Montana
70.2% - 3,521 yards - 26 td - 8 int - 112.4 rating
Defeated Broncos 55-10 in Super Bowl
His best statistical year - started 13 games. Widely considered the GOAT

2013 - Russell Wilson
63.1% - 3,357 yards - 26 td - 9 int - 101.2 rating
Defeated Broncos 43-8 in Super Bowl
Second year. Widely considered to be a game manager and the 3rd-5th best quarterback in his class.

 

[nsport]

You named 3 games and 8 comebacks if you can go on and on, please name them, and all those comebacks are not solely on him and I'm not saying it has to be, but how much was he a factor in all of them? You also have to take things into context, were we possibly losing early possibly because of his play and our D kept us in the game and then Wilson made a final drive that was well but played poorly through out the game or was it the D that kept giving up points and Wilson was dueling it out scoring a ton? I can't say for certain one thing or another. Also like I said, he is incredibly efficient (high rating) and he is definitely a good pocket passer, but at times he's been a bit off his game this year (both STL,2nd NO game,both SF,HOU,NYG,2nd ARZ game). You can blame it on the OLine or give credit to their defenses, but it's the same thing when you judge another QB playing our defense. Passing yards =/= elite, but it gives a little bit of an indication how the offensive is rolling and it's not a sole way to judge someone, but that along with the eye test seems like Wilson is just leaving a little bit more to be desired. I'm not saying we're winning in spite of him and he definitely contributes to wins obviously, but I'm just not sure we could consistently rely on him if our defense wasn't so good AS OF RIGHT NOW. I hope he does that next step and it definitely looks like he will, but I just don't know if he is that good right now. Some of you guys take it as such a slight to Wilson if we don't call him elite even though I said he was a tier right under elite. Dude is in his second year and almost as good as some of the GOAT which is amazing in itself. I just want to see him be able to do it little longer and see him do it after his big pay day when he pretty much has to always take over.

Sorry - this is just a bit of a narrow argument for me. These points about playing poorly or putting the need to come back on Wilson, then not giving (or giving) credit when they come back is outside the mantra of the team structure. The architects of this team built it in a way that we can have balance in all phases of the game. This is why nobody has matched the 72 Dolphins. It's IMPOSSIBLE to be perfect every game. It's literally impossible. The Patriots almost did it, but they got smoked by the Giants. Russell will NOT be perfect. But is he the perfect fit on the most balanced team in the league? Absolutely. There will be times that he plays poorly. I think we can say the same for any HOF 1st Ballot QB in the history of the league. But they will win more than they lose as long as they can balance the team (Defense, Special Teams, Offense). Every other playoff team except the Niners & Seahawks were horribly imbalanced. Is there any question that both teams were widely considered the best two teams in the league? It wasn't for their QB play. It was for everything their teams bring to the table. There's a reason why games QB'd by RW have never been beaten by more than 8 points.

 

[dontbelikethat]

You named 3 games and 8 comebacks if you can go on and on, please name them, and all those comebacks are not solely on him and I'm not saying it has to be, but how much was he a factor in all of them? You also have to take things into context, were we possibly losing early possibly because of his play and our D kept us in the game and then Wilson made a final drive that was well but played poorly through out the game or was it the D that kept giving up points and Wilson was dueling it out scoring a ton? I can't say for certain one thing or another. Also like I said, he is incredibly efficient (high rating) and he is definitely a good pocket passer, but at times he's been a bit off his game this year (both STL,2nd NO game,both SF,HOU,NYG,2nd ARZ game). You can blame it on the OLine or give credit to their defenses, but it's the same thing when you judge another QB playing our defense. Passing yards =/= elite, but it gives a little bit of an indication how the offensive is rolling and it's not a sole way to judge someone, but that along with the eye test seems like Wilson is just leaving a little bit more to be desired. I'm not saying we're winning in spite of him and he definitely contributes to wins obviously, but I'm just not sure we could consistently rely on him if our defense wasn't so good AS OF RIGHT NOW. I hope he does that next step and it definitely looks like he will, but I just don't know if he is that good right now. Some of you guys take it as such a slight to Wilson if we don't call him elite even though I said he was a tier right under elite. Dude is in his second year and almost as good as some of the GOAT which is amazing in itself. I just want to see him be able to do it little longer and see him do it after his big pay day when he pretty much has to always take over.

Sorry - this is just a bit of a narrow argument for me. These points about playing poorly or putting the need to come back on Wilson, then not giving (or giving) credit when they come back is outside the mantra of the team structure. The architects of this team built it in a way that we can have balance in all phases of the game. This is why nobody has matched the 72 Dolphins. It's IMPOSSIBLE to be perfect every game. It's literally impossible. The Patriots almost did it, but they got smoked by the Giants. Russell will NOT be perfect. But is he the perfect fit on the most balanced team in the league? Absolutely. There will be times that he plays poorly. I think we can say the same for any HOF 1st Ballot QB in the history of the league. But they will win more than they lose as long as they can balance the team (Defense, Special Teams, Offense). Every other playoff team except the Niners & Seahawks were horribly imbalanced. Is there any question that both teams were widely considered the best two teams in the league? It wasn't for their QB play. It was for everything their teams bring to the table. There's a reason why games QB'd by RW have never been beaten by more than 8 points.

I understand he's not perfect and that's not what I expect. I also understand how our offensive philosophy can hinder stats and his play. I just don't know if RIGHT NOW, if we didn't have the defense we have, would he still be able to win as consistently as he does because obviously our D plays a huge role and we hold opponents to about 13-14 a game which is lowest in the league. The point I want to get across is that I don't know if he can still win as consistent as we do now with out that balance because when the cap comes in to play, we're probably going to have to lean on him, and I hope he can sustain the success he is having now, but I just don't know for sure and the point of mentioning the other 4 great QB's is they all have done this (win "imbalanced") which helps play into how they're considered elite.

 

[Lady Talon]

We've seen where we were with a good defense and mediocre QB play. 7-9. So you have to ask yourself, who carries who? Was the 2012 defense so outstanding it equated to +4 wins on it's own?

If not, what else dragged us out of mediocrity?

 

[Natethegreat]

You named 3 games and 8 comebacks if you can go on and on, please name them, and all those comebacks are not solely on him and I'm not saying it has to be, but how much was he a factor in all of them? You also have to take things into context, were we possibly losing early possibly because of his play and our D kept us in the game and then Wilson made a final drive that was well but played poorly through out the game or was it the D that kept giving up points and Wilson was dueling it out scoring a ton? I can't say for certain one thing or another. Also like I said, he is incredibly efficient (high rating) and he is definitely a good pocket passer, but at times he's been a bit off his game this year (both STL,2nd NO game,both SF,HOU,NYG,2nd ARZ game). You can blame it on the OLine or give credit to their defenses, but it's the same thing when you judge another QB playing our defense. Passing yards =/= elite, but it gives a little bit of an indication how the offensive is rolling and it's not a sole way to judge someone, but that along with the eye test seems like Wilson is just leaving a little bit more to be desired. I'm not saying we're winning in spite of him and he definitely contributes to wins obviously, but I'm just not sure we could consistently rely on him if our defense wasn't so good AS OF RIGHT NOW. I hope he does that next step and it definitely looks like he will, but I just don't know if he is that good right now. Some of you guys take it as such a slight to Wilson if we don't call him elite even though I said he was a tier right under elite. Dude is in his second year and almost as good as some of the GOAT which is amazing in itself. I just want to see him be able to do it little longer and see him do it after his big pay day when he pretty much has to always take over.[/quote]

So basically you won't consider him elite till you feel he is carrying his team to victories. Ridiculous, but if thats your definition then congrats.Also, every QB has to be behind first to make a comeback. Does that mean Brady's don't count ether? You basically discount everything he has done just to hold onto your position of not elite. Doesn't matter his stats, doesn't matter his wins, doesn't matter his comeback drives, doesn't matter taking his team to a championship and winning, doesn't matter he was terrific in that championship game. All that matters is he already has a good team around him and he hasn't been playing long so he isn't elite.
You arguments don't make a ton of logical sense which makes me feel you are here to bag on the guy. I sense troll here but whatever.

 

[nsport]

I understand he's not perfect and that's not what I expect. I also understand how our offensive philosophy can hinder stats and his play. I just don't know if RIGHT NOW, if we didn't have the defense we have, would he still be able to win as consistently as he does because obviously our D plays a huge role and we hold opponents to about 13-14 a game which is lowest in the league. The point I want to get across is that I don't know if he can still win as consistent as we do now with out that balance because when the cap comes in to play, we're probably going to have to lean on him, and I hope he can sustain the success he is having now, but I just don't know for sure and the point of mentioning the other 4 great QB's is they all have done this (win "imbalanced").

Excellent point and thanks for not going off on me because after re-reading I know I sounded a bit crass. I think I understand that if you could play fantasy football and put RW on the Patriots would they be a playoff team? That's so hard to gauge or estimate. The only true comparative I think would be putting him on a playoff caliber team where he'd be asked to do more with less - such as the Colts, Patriots, Cardinals, Bengals, or Jets. I think he'd probably be pretty good on those teams - but again, very hard to say. If you judge Wilson by his career as a QB, including college - then I think it's easy to surmise he would be equally successful.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

We've seen where we were with a good defense and mediocre QB play. 7-9. So you have to ask yourself, who carries who? Was the 2012 defense so outstanding it equated to +4 wins on it's own?

If not, what else dragged us out of mediocrity?

Good point. My question is how many years does it require? 3? 5? 10? Between you and me we will get our answer in 2016 and I am far more confident I will be right than yourself. (The post is mostly directed to Talon's previous poster).

 

[nsport]

Actually, I would add (what I consider to be) a rhetorical question: Is RW clearly our future and potentially the greatest QB this team will see in a long time?

Absolutely the answer to this in my mind is yes. We've seen a lot of QB's come and go - and the only one that even had remotely as much hype was Rick Mirer - and we all know how that turned out. The only ones with remotely as close of a resume include Hasselbeck and Krieg. The only one with as much lore is probably Jim Zorn. Let's not forget the dozens of others that we hoped would perform at a fraction as RW has done already after two seasons. Russell Wilson is and always will be the QB that is unflappable, highly skilled, incredibly intelligent, insane work ethic, and complete - more than any other we have ever had. So yes - he is elite and will go down as the Seahawks' greatest QB. I have no doubt and 100% confidence in this point of view.

 

[dontbelikethat]

So basically you won't consider him elite till you feel he is carrying his team to victories. Ridiculous, but if thats your definition then congrats. You basically discount everything he has done just to hold onto your position of not elite. Doesn't matter his stats, doesn't matter his wins, doesn't matter his comeback drives, doesn't matter taking his team to a championship and winning, doesn't matter he was terrific in that championship game. All that matters is he already has a good team around him and he hasn't been playing long so he isn't elite.
You arguments don't make a ton of logical sense which makes me feel you are here to bag on the guy. I sense troll here but whatever.

Not necessarily. Lol you act like I don't give him credit. I said he is a tier right under the best 4 QB's in the league, that's not a diss at all. He gets plenty of credit as he should (because he'll probably further climb the ladder of top QB's) and if he wasn't such of vital importance or wasn't that good, we wouldn't be having this talk. I guess you could say I don't want to consider him elite until he carries more of a pull cause that just shows it was him that was making us win and not the supporting cast (your point). All the accolades you list are team driven and I don't get how it supports what you're trying to say unless you think he was the reason that made those things happen which is my point I was trying to make to show how I think how he is/can be elite. It's all an argument of semantics, bleh. I don't like how this all turned out to be made like a bash on Wilson because it should be far from it. I wouldn't trade him for any other QB in the league, but at the same time I just don't want to crown him yet.

 

[dontbelikethat]

I understand he's not perfect and that's not what I expect. I also understand how our offensive philosophy can hinder stats and his play. I just don't know if RIGHT NOW, if we didn't have the defense we have, would he still be able to win as consistently as he does because obviously our D plays a huge role and we hold opponents to about 13-14 a game which is lowest in the league. The point I want to get across is that I don't know if he can still win as consistent as we do now with out that balance because when the cap comes in to play, we're probably going to have to lean on him, and I hope he can sustain the success he is having now, but I just don't know for sure and the point of mentioning the other 4 great QB's is they all have done this (win "imbalanced").

Excellent point and thanks for not going off on me because after re-reading I know I sounded a bit crass. I think I understand that if you could play fantasy football and put RW on the Patriots would they be a playoff team? That's so hard to gauge or estimate. The only true comparative I think would be putting him on a playoff caliber team where he'd be asked to do more with less - such as the Colts, Patriots, Cardinals, Bengals, or Jets. I think he'd probably be pretty good on those teams - but again, very hard to say. If you judge Wilson by his career as a QB, including college - then I think it's easy to surmise he would be equally successful.

Exactly what I wanted to get across, it's just hard to gauge. I'm more certain than not that he'll be successful and elite, I just don't want to write it in stone and the only way I see to gauge how great he can be is with him taking more of a pull. Wouldn't trade him for any other QB in the world right now.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I did mention he was just as good If not better in college! Damn I guess you have to drone on like Stephen King to get your attention? And he knows and excels in THREE different offenses one being the WCO which is the typical NFL offense.

 

[Anthony!]

You named 3 games and 8 comebacks if you can go on and on, please name them, and all those comebacks are not solely on him and I'm not saying it has to be, but how much was he a factor in all of them? You also have to take things into context, were we possibly losing early possibly because of his play and our D kept us in the game and then Wilson made a final drive that was well but played poorly through out the game or was it the D that kept giving up points and Wilson was dueling it out scoring a ton? I can't say for certain one thing or another. Also like I said, he is incredibly efficient (high rating) and he is definitely a good pocket passer, but at times he's been a bit off his game this year (both STL,2nd NO game,both SF,HOU,NYG,2nd ARZ game). You can blame it on the OLine or give credit to their defenses, but it's the same thing when you judge another QB playing our defense. Passing yards =/= elite, but it gives a little bit of an indication how the offensive is rolling and it's not a sole way to judge someone, but that along with the eye test seems like Wilson is just leaving a little bit more to be desired. I'm not saying we're winning in spite of him and he definitely contributes to wins obviously, but I'm just not sure we could consistently rely on him if our defense wasn't so good AS OF RIGHT NOW. I hope he does that next step and it definitely looks like he will, but I just don't know if he is that good right now. Some of you guys take it as such a slight to Wilson if we don't call him elite even though I said he was a tier right under elite. Dude is in his second year and almost as good as some of the GOAT which is amazing in itself. I just want to see him be able to do it little longer and see him do it after his big pay day when he pretty much has to always take over.

You see I do not have to name more I named enough, and you still have nothing to support you other than yards, I showed how Rw has outplayed Brady, played as well as Brees and those are 2 of your so called elite. As to we are possible loosing early because of his play, really even you cannot be that much of a hater. Basically you have nothing but what you want and think while the rest of us have facts. So tell you what believe what you want, don't let the facts get in the way. The rest of us in the real world will know he is already Elite and will get better.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Not even going to try and define Elite, as it probably differs from person to person.

So, I will just have some fun here. No, I'm not saying Wilson is Montana. Also realize it was a different era.

1989 - Joe Montana
70.2% - 3,521 yards - 26 td - 8 int - 112.4 rating
Defeated Broncos 55-10 in Super Bowl
His best statistical year - started 13 games. Widely considered the GOAT

2013 - Russell Wilson
63.1% - 3,357 yards - 26 td - 9 int - 101.2 rating
Defeated Broncos 43-8 in Super Bowl
Second year. Widely considered to be a game manager and the 3rd-5th best quarterback in his class.

No fair! Russell Wilson has had so many more weapons around him than Montana did! He's had two undrafted free agents (one a rookie), and a second rounder to throw to! All Montana had that year were John Taylor, Roger Craig, and Jerry Rice in their prime.

 

[Anthony!]

You named 3 games and 8 comebacks if you can go on and on, please name them, and all those comebacks are not solely on him and I'm not saying it has to be, but how much was he a factor in all of them? You also have to take things into context, were we possibly losing early possibly because of his play and our D kept us in the game and then Wilson made a final drive that was well but played poorly through out the game or was it the D that kept giving up points and Wilson was dueling it out scoring a ton? I can't say for certain one thing or another. Also like I said, he is incredibly efficient (high rating) and he is definitely a good pocket passer, but at times he's been a bit off his game this year (both STL,2nd NO game,both SF,HOU,NYG,2nd ARZ game). You can blame it on the OLine or give credit to their defenses, but it's the same thing when you judge another QB playing our defense. Passing yards =/= elite, but it gives a little bit of an indication how the offensive is rolling and it's not a sole way to judge someone, but that along with the eye test seems like Wilson is just leaving a little bit more to be desired. I'm not saying we're winning in spite of him and he definitely contributes to wins obviously, but I'm just not sure we could consistently rely on him if our defense wasn't so good AS OF RIGHT NOW. I hope he does that next step and it definitely looks like he will, but I just don't know if he is that good right now. Some of you guys take it as such a slight to Wilson if we don't call him elite even though I said he was a tier right under elite. Dude is in his second year and almost as good as some of the GOAT which is amazing in itself. I just want to see him be able to do it little longer and see him do it after his big pay day when he pretty much has to always take over.

Sorry - this is just a bit of a narrow argument for me. These points about playing poorly or putting the need to come back on Wilson, then not giving (or giving) credit when they come back is outside the mantra of the team structure. The architects of this team built it in a way that we can have balance in all phases of the game. This is why nobody has matched the 72 Dolphins. It's IMPOSSIBLE to be perfect every game. It's literally impossible. The Patriots almost did it, but they got smoked by the Giants. Russell will NOT be perfect. But is he the perfect fit on the most balanced team in the league? Absolutely. There will be times that he plays poorly. I think we can say the same for any HOF 1st Ballot QB in the history of the league. But they will win more than they lose as long as they can balance the team (Defense, Special Teams, Offense). Every other playoff team except the Niners & Seahawks were horribly imbalanced. Is there any question that both teams were widely considered the best two teams in the league? It wasn't for their QB play. It was for everything their teams bring to the table. There's a reason why games QB'd by RW have never been beaten by more than 8 points.

I understand he's not perfect and that's not what I expect. I also understand how our offensive philosophy can hinder stats and his play. I just don't know if RIGHT NOW, if we didn't have the defense we have, would he still be able to win as consistently as he does because obviously our D plays a huge role and we hold opponents to about 13-14 a game which is lowest in the league. The point I want to get across is that I don't know if he can still win as consistent as we do now with out that balance because when the cap comes in to play, we're probably going to have to lean on him, and I hope he can sustain the success he is having now, but I just don't know for sure and the point of mentioning the other 4 great QB's is they all have done this (win "imbalanced") which helps play into how they're considered elite.

except he has already proven he can, even when our d doe snot play well, even when he has to come back, so you still have nothing. So I guess for Rw to be elite he has to play on a team with a crappy defense and still win. Hmm seems there are a lot of QBs in the HOF that are not elite then. Your problem is you really just want to Rw to not be elite your remind me of someone named Jacknut.