Can Russel Wilson become an Elite pocket passer?

[themunn]

I think people don't understand what i originally posted.

The only guys in the NFL that anyone can consider an Elite pocket passer is the Big 4 QBs. A QB that can make plays from the Pocket without to many Turnovers. Saying wilson is in this same league after 2 years is disrespectful. I love Russ but lets not get carried away.

This is the credit i give Russ.
Out of the younger generation of QB i believe, Kam, Luck, and wilson are the top of that group in no specific order.
They all elite in their own way, and i don't believe wilson outshadows any of them. Saying so is just your inner 12 talking because they are all exceptional QB. Wilson plays on a better team than all these QB's, and so he isn't asked to take the same kind of risks these other QB's are asked to take. Its not a knock on Wilson, but its true. He has the advantage of playing EXTREMELY cautious.
Right now, i believe Luck has shown the most potential to be an Elite pocket passer, and i personally feel the others have not. This is just because of the way their teams are built.

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

Tarvaris Jackson could lead us to the playoffs every year if his divisional competition was Miami, Buffalo and the Jets.
Russell Wilson has 3 100+ passer rating playoff games. Peyton Manning has 6, and only 3 since 2005, when Wilson was a HIGH SCHOOL JUNIOR. NINE YEARS AGO. With receivers like Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. What makes him elite apart from gaudy numbers?

 

[Natethegreat]

I think people don't understand what i originally posted.

The only guys in the NFL that anyone can consider an Elite pocket passer is the Big 4 QBs. A QB that can make plays from the Pocket without to many Turnovers. Saying wilson is in this same league after 2 years is disrespectful. I love Russ but lets not get carried away.

This is the credit i give Russ.
Out of the younger generation of QB i believe, Kam, Luck, and wilson are the top of that group in no specific order.
They all elite in their own way, and i don't believe wilson outshadows any of them. Saying so is just your inner 12 talking because they are all exceptional QB. Wilson plays on a better team than all these QB's, and so he isn't asked to take the same kind of risks these other QB's are asked to take. Its not a knock on Wilson, but its true. He has the advantage of playing EXTREMELY cautious.
Right now, i believe Luck has shown the most potential to be an Elite pocket passer, and i personally feel the others have not. This is just because of the way their teams are built.

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

Are you sure you didn't come over from some Luck fanboy site? Your praise of Russel sounds like an ESPN commentary section of people bagging on him. He doesn't have to do this , he can't do that blah blah blah what pathetic drivel.

 

[themunn]

Russell Wilson's playoff QB rating is the 4th highest of all time among QBs with more than 1 win, and would be highest of all time if not for the end of game hail mary INT in Atlanta.

 

[Rainger]

RW will not be elite as a pocket passer until the pompous jerks like John Clayton and the other media egomaniacs say he is. Terms like elite and #1 receiver and all the other jargon is crap shoved out by the Media.

Only they can say a player is great or not because they shape the storyline.

To all of us who can watch the results and see the numbers we already know he is as "elite" as all of the other anointed QB's. Clayton still doesn't even put him in the top 5 because it will go against the narrative he has been spouting.

Example JC continually said that Harvin should not be returning kicks and still side stepped it when he was wrong after the SB.

But as long as the media does not use the term to describe him then he will never be elite except in our eyes.
We don't have the power to determine the level of any player, only the media gets to tell us who is good/great or not.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

It must be our "inner 12's" speaking. I smell troll. As I said earlier he will be regarded similarly to Troy Aikman but slightly better by the ignorant and the media. Unless Pete isn't coaching the next 6-10 years (which is possible).

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

...

 

[brimsalabim]

I think people don't understand what i originally posted.

The only guys in the NFL that anyone can consider an Elite pocket passer is the Big 4 QBs. A QB that can make plays from the Pocket without to many Turnovers. Saying wilson is in this same league after 2 years is disrespectful. I love Russ but lets not get carried away.

This is the credit i give Russ.
Out of the younger generation of QB i believe, Kam, Luck, and wilson are the top of that group in no specific order.
They all elite in their own way, and i don't believe wilson outshadows any of them. Saying so is just your inner 12 talking because they are all exceptional QB. Wilson plays on a better team than all these QB's, and so he isn't asked to take the same kind of risks these other QB's are asked to take. Its not a knock on Wilson, but its true. He has the advantage of playing EXTREMELY cautious.
Right now, i believe Luck has shown the most potential to be an Elite pocket passer, and i personally feel the others have not. This is just because of the way their teams are built.

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

what exactly has Luck showed you better than Wilson has besides the ability to cultivate a neck beard? What on earth are you basing your assumption upon? And as to the big 4 teams riding their backs??? WTF are you talking about? Are you actually trying to make the case that the Broncos and Saints are void of talent? I'll give you Brady this season because the pats had injuries but they didn't get much of a ride out of him. Oh and Lucks colts rode him home to the couch. No body wins the superbowl with out talent around them. Part of being an elite QB is in knowing how to use that talent.

 

[brimsalabim]

The thing with wilson is sometimes he just needs to drop back, trust what he sees and let it fly. Sometimes he hesitates, scrambles, then runs out if bounds. Let the f'er fly.

He'll learn with experience and also the team will be more offensively focused as others have said 3-4 years from now because of Wilson's second contract. But he has something Brady never had.... legs. He will always be able to scramble because he's smart about it like Fran Tarkenton.

Now you guys are both echoing Warren Moon's sentiments here. Makes sense to me.

 

[blazen2392]

It must be our "inner 12's" speaking. I smell troll. As I said earlier he will be regarded similarly to Troy Aikman but slightly better by the ignorant and the media. Unless Pete isn't coaching the next 6-10 years (which is possible).

Loosen up. Its a fair critism of Russ. No need to be rude.

 

[Anthony!]

I think people don't understand what i originally posted.

The only guys in the NFL that anyone can consider an Elite pocket passer is the Big 4 QBs. A QB that can make plays from the Pocket without to many Turnovers. Saying wilson is in this same league after 2 years is disrespectful. I love Russ but lets not get carried away.

This is the credit i give Russ.
Out of the younger generation of QB i believe, Kam, Luck, and wilson are the top of that group in no specific order.
They all elite in their own way, and i don't believe wilson outshadows any of them. Saying so is just your inner 12 talking because they are all exceptional QB. Wilson plays on a better team than all these QB's, and so he isn't asked to take the same kind of risks these other QB's are asked to take. Its not a knock on Wilson, but its true. He has the advantage of playing EXTREMELY cautious.
Right now, i believe Luck has shown the most potential to be an Elite pocket passer, and i personally feel the others have not. This is just because of the way their teams are built.

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

And obviously you really do not get it. RW has one of the best QB rating form the pocket in the NFL. Now lets move on to your statement about riding Rw like the supposedly big 4, I mean we all know Brees has no talent around him at all, neither does Manning or Rodgers, Brady I would give you at least this year. The problem a I see it, is you are trying to find reasons not to include him and your reasons are..well. wrong.

Lets look at these supposed top 4

Manning has more yards, and more attempts, he has a higher QB rating, higher ypa, higher complt% and more tds , also more ints, also more talent around him on offense

Brady has more yards, and that is it, Rw has the same number of tds, less int, higher YPA, higher compl %, much higher QB rating

Brees has more yards, higher complet %, more tds, more ints, higher qb rating, RW has higher ypa

Rodgers has well having missed several games it would not be fair to compare

So basically other than Manning who has perhaps the best receiving corps in the NFL with him Rw matches up very very well


Now lets look at Luck who has a HOF wr for most of the year and another WR who is better than anyone we have except Harvin who only really played 2 games

Luck had more yards, more attempts. less tds, same number of ints, much lower compl %, much lower YPA, and much lower QB rating

So Rw beats him hands down and FYI RW numbers in the pocket are better than his numbers out of the pocket.

Add to that when called upon to carry the offense Rw has proven time and time again he can

This is why we disagree the facts do not support you at all.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

The thing with wilson is sometimes he just needs to drop back, trust what he sees and let it fly. Sometimes he hesitates, scrambles, then runs out if bounds. Let the f'er fly.

He'll learn with experience and also the lteam will be more offensively focused as others have said 3-4 years from now because of Wilson's second contract. But he has something Brady never had.... legs. He will always be able to scramble because he's smart about it like Fran Tarkenton.

Now you guys are both echoing Warren Moon's sentiments here. Makes sense to me.

I started saying this during the Kansas City game last year!! It was the reason I joined and started posting because I got a chance to see him live.

 

[dontbelikethat]

Just need a bit more from Wilson before I can call him elite and I don't know if I ever will see enough due to how the offense is ran. The only elite Qb's for me are the big 4 (Manning,Brady,Rodgers,Brees). Wilson is in that next tier though and he's very close to becoming elite. I'll say this though, he is incredibly efficient, but I don't know if he could do what he did in the 2nd half of the ATL game last year on a consistent basis.

So you need to see Wilson throw for 385 yards on a consistent basis before you will consider him to be among the elite qb's? At least you have established a bar. Are you at least willing to amortize it based on the limited number of attempts Russell is given? Also 3 of the big 4 can't run to save their lives much less to pick up a key first down. Can we maybe allow Russ a small curve based on that?

Lol I would like to see him take over a game and have the offense lean on him like he did in ATL, but I don't know if that'll ever happen due to offensive philosophy. You're taking things so out of context just to try and bash an opinion. I'm not yet 100% sure we can rely on him if our defense lays an egg. Yeah Wilson can use his legs which is good, but the other QB's are so good at what they do as a passer that it negates the lack of mobility. Obviously give Wilson credit that he can run, but I think it's hard compare him as a passer to the big 4 this early when those guys have year of years of consistency as a great passer.

 

[Anthony!]

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

Yes, I'm confident we could count on him just as much as those "Big Four" quarterbacks' teams do. Looking at his efficiency this year with a shattered offensive line and swapping his top two receivers for undrafted free agents, while operating in a run-first type offense leaves no doubt he could do fantastically better with all those weapons at his disposal.

Add to that, that despite the run first offense of which he accounted for over 500 yards of it, let me remind everyone that Lynch actually struggled some this year only eclipsing 100 yards 3 times, and eclipsing 4 ypc 7 times. so that means for half the season there was no real run game

 

[Anthony!]

Just need a bit more from Wilson before I can call him elite and I don't know if I ever will see enough due to how the offense is ran. The only elite Qb's for me are the big 4 (Manning,Brady,Rodgers,Brees). Wilson is in that next tier though and he's very close to becoming elite. I'll say this though, he is incredibly efficient, but I don't know if he could do what he did in the 2nd half of the ATL game last year on a consistent basis.

So you need to see Wilson throw for 385 yards on a consistent basis before you will consider him to be among the elite qb's? At least you have established a bar. Are you at least willing to amortize it based on the limited number of attempts Russell is given? Also 3 of the big 4 can't run to save their lives much less to pick up a key first down. Can we maybe allow Russ a small curve based on that?

Lol I would like to see him take over a game and have the offense lean on him like he did in ATL, but I don't know if that'll ever happen due to offensive philosophy. You're taking things so out of context just to try and bash an opinion. I'm not yet 100% sure we can rely on him if our defense lays an egg. Yeah Wilson can use his legs which is good, but the other QB's are so good at what they do as a passer that it negates the lack of mobility. Obviously give Wilson credit that he can run, but I think it's hard compare him as a passer to the big 4 this early when those guys have year of years of consistency as a great passer.

Except he has done in it in other games than Atl, say Chicago, the first NO game and I can go on, he has 8 4ht qtr comeback wins in 2 years that means he did it 8 times. You keep saying RW has his legs but you keep forgetting he has a higher passer rating in the pocket than out, so ye she has legs, he also is a great pocket passer. In my opinion your issue is nothing more than passing yards, and if that is what makes an Elite WB then someone better tell Montana he is not Elite.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Just need a bit more from Wilson before I can call him elite and I don't know if I ever will see enough due to how the offense is ran. The only elite Qb's for me are the big 4 (Manning,Brady,Rodgers,Brees). Wilson is in that next tier though and he's very close to becoming elite. I'll say this though, he is incredibly efficient, but I don't know if he could do what he did in the 2nd half of the ATL game last year on a consistent basis.

So you need to see Wilson throw for 385 yards on a consistent basis before you will consider him to be among the elite qb's? At least you have established a bar. Are you at least willing to amortize it based on the limited number of attempts Russell is given? Also 3 of the big 4 can't run to save their lives much less to pick up a key first down. Can we maybe allow Russ a small curve based on that?

Lol I would like to see him take over a game and have the offense lean on him like he did in ATL, but I don't know if that'll ever happen due to offensive philosophy. You're taking things so out of context just to try and bash an opinion. I'm not yet 100% sure we can rely on him if our defense lays an egg. Yeah Wilson can use his legs which is good, but the other QB's are so good at what they do as a passer that it negates the lack of mobility. Obviously give Wilson credit that he can run, but I think it's hard compare him as a passer to the big 4 this early when those guys have year of years of consistency as a great passer.

So your actual argument is he hasn't played long enough? Fair enough but that's why you're not in charge and wrong.

 

[blazen2392]

I think people don't understand what i originally posted.

The only guys in the NFL that anyone can consider an Elite pocket passer is the Big 4 QBs. A QB that can make plays from the Pocket without to many Turnovers. Saying wilson is in this same league after 2 years is disrespectful. I love Russ but lets not get carried away.

This is the credit i give Russ.
Out of the younger generation of QB i believe, Kam, Luck, and wilson are the top of that group in no specific order.
They all elite in their own way, and i don't believe wilson outshadows any of them. Saying so is just your inner 12 talking because they are all exceptional QB. Wilson plays on a better team than all these QB's, and so he isn't asked to take the same kind of risks these other QB's are asked to take. Its not a knock on Wilson, but its true. He has the advantage of playing EXTREMELY cautious.
Right now, i believe Luck has shown the most potential to be an Elite pocket passer, and i personally feel the others have not. This is just because of the way their teams are built.

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

what exactly has Luck showed you better than Wilson has besides the ability to cultivate a neck beard? What on earth are you basing your assumption upon? And as to the big 4 teams riding their backs??? WTF are you talking about? Are you actually trying to make the case that the Broncos and Saints are void of talent? I'll give you Brady this season because the pats had injuries but they didn't get much of a ride out of him. Oh and Lucks colts rode him home to the couch. No body wins the superbowl with out talent around them. Part of being an elite QB is in knowing how to use that talent.

Luck never leaves the pocket the way russell does. He doesn't hang on to the football for as long as russell does. He puts up gawdy number INSIDE the pocket. Never said hes a better overall QB, but in the pocket Luck makes a lot of plays. Luck is a turnover machine though, but thats from being young imo. From an objective point of view, i would still take wilson over Luck. He is natural leader and is so poised and way to confident. He makes way better decisions than Luck and never cracks under pressure. Very few QBs have the talent of wilson and i believe he is just straight up born to win. Brady is the only other QB in my opinion with that kind of poise. Thing is we won't see wilson put up gawdy numbers from the pocket till our team hits a slump. After we see that then we will see if he will join that elite club.

Teams ride QBs to the playoffs more than any other player. Brady? Rodgers? Manning does it on a consistent basis. the year manning left the colts their team went 2-14 or something ridiculous like that. they rarely have down years.
compare that to someone like Eli who can't be ridden to the playoffs. He needs his team to be outstanding consistently.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

The thing with wilson is sometimes he just needs to drop back, trust what he sees and let it fly. Sometimes he hesitates, scrambles, then runs out if bounds. Let the f'er fly.

He'll learn with experience and also the lteam will be more offensively focused as others have said 3-4 years from now because of Wilson's second contract. But he has something Brady never had.... legs. He will always be able to scramble because he's smart about it like Fran Tarkenton.

Now you guys are both echoing Warren Moon's sentiments here. Makes sense to me.

I started saying this during the Kansas City game last year!!

 

[Anthony!]

I think people don't understand what i originally posted.

The only guys in the NFL that anyone can consider an Elite pocket passer is the Big 4 QBs. A QB that can make plays from the Pocket without to many Turnovers. Saying wilson is in this same league after 2 years is disrespectful. I love Russ but lets not get carried away.

This is the credit i give Russ.
Out of the younger generation of QB i believe, Kam, Luck, and wilson are the top of that group in no specific order.
They all elite in their own way, and i don't believe wilson outshadows any of them. Saying so is just your inner 12 talking because they are all exceptional QB. Wilson plays on a better team than all these QB's, and so he isn't asked to take the same kind of risks these other QB's are asked to take. Its not a knock on Wilson, but its true. He has the advantage of playing EXTREMELY cautious.
Right now, i believe Luck has shown the most potential to be an Elite pocket passer, and i personally feel the others have not. This is just because of the way their teams are built.

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

what exactly has Luck showed you better than Wilson has besides the ability to cultivate a neck beard? What on earth are you basing your assumption upon? And as to the big 4 teams riding their backs??? WTF are you talking about? Are you actually trying to make the case that the Broncos and Saints are void of talent? I'll give you Brady this season because the pats had injuries but they didn't get much of a ride out of him. Oh and Lucks colts rode him home to the couch. No body wins the superbowl with out talent around them. Part of being an elite QB is in knowing how to use that talent.

Luck never leaves the pocket the way russell does. He doesn't hang on to the football for as long as russell does. He puts up gawdy number INSIDE the pocket. Never said hes a better overall QB, but in the pocket Luck makes a lot of plays. Luck is a turnover machine though, but thats from being young imo. From an objective point of view, i would still take wilson over Luck. He is natural leader and is so poised and way to confident. He makes way better decisions than Luck and never cracks under pressure. Very few QBs have the talent of wilson and i believe he is just straight up born to win. Brady is the only other QB in my opinion with that kind of poise. Thing is we won't see wilson put up gawdy numbers from the pocket till our team hits a slump. After we see that then we will see if he will join that elite club.

Teams ride QBs to the playoffs more than any other player. Brady? Rodgers? Manning does it on a consistent basis. the year manning left the colts their team went 2-14 or something ridiculous like that. they rarely have down years.
compare that to someone like Eli who can't be ridden to the playoffs. He needs his team to be outstanding consistently.

No after that you will see him join the Elite club the rest of us already know he is. And FYI we have made the playoffs every year RW has been the QB, by your definition that makes him Elite and his QB rating in the playoffs is top 10, that makes him elite.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

It must be our "inner 12's" speaking. I smell troll. As I said earlier he will be regarded similarly to Troy Aikman but slightly better by the ignorant and the media. Unless Pete isn't coaching the next 6-10 years (which is possible).

Loosen up. Its a fair critism of Russ. No need to be rude.

Fair enough.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I think people don't understand what i originally posted.

The only guys in the NFL that anyone can consider an Elite pocket passer is the Big 4 QBs. A QB that can make plays from the Pocket without to many Turnovers. Saying wilson is in this same league after 2 years is disrespectful. I love Russ but lets not get carried away.

This is the credit i give Russ.
Out of the younger generation of QB i believe, Kam, Luck, and wilson are the top of that group in no specific order.
They all elite in their own way, and i don't believe wilson outshadows any of them. Saying so is just your inner 12 talking because they are all exceptional QB. Wilson plays on a better team than all these QB's, and so he isn't asked to take the same kind of risks these other QB's are asked to take. Its not a knock on Wilson, but its true. He has the advantage of playing EXTREMELY cautious.
Right now, i believe Luck has shown the most potential to be an Elite pocket passer, and i personally feel the others have not. This is just because of the way their teams are built.

What am saying is down the stretch when Wilson has something similar to a 2013 patriots team, can we ride his back to the playoffs consistently like these big 4 QBs do year after year?

what exactly has Luck showed you better than Wilson has besides the ability to cultivate a neck beard? What on earth are you basing your assumption upon? And as to the big 4 teams riding their backs??? WTF are you talking about? Are you actually trying to make the case that the Broncos and Saints are void of talent? I'll give you Brady this season because the pats had injuries but they didn't get much of a ride out of him. Oh and Lucks colts rode him home to the couch. No body wins the superbowl with out talent around them. Part of being an elite QB is in knowing how to use that talent.

Luck never leaves the pocket the way russell does. He doesn't hang on to the football for as long as russell does. He puts up gawdy number INSIDE the pocket. Never said hes a better overall QB, but in the pocket Luck makes a lot of plays. Luck is a turnover machine though, but thats from being young imo. From an objective point of view, i would still take wilson over Luck. He is natural leader and is so poised and way to confident. He makes way better decisions than Luck and never cracks under pressure. Very few QBs have the talent of wilson and i believe he is just straight up born to win. Brady is the only other QB in my opinion with that kind of poise. Thing is we won't see wilson put up gawdy numbers from the pocket till our team hits a slump. After we see that then we will see if he will join that elite club.

Teams ride QBs to the playoffs more than any other player. Brady? Rodgers? Manning does it on a consistent basis. the year manning left the colts their team went 2-14 or something ridiculous like that. they rarely have down years.
compare that to someone like Eli who can't be ridden to the playoffs. He needs his team to be outstanding consistently.

Seriously? You can't have your cake and eat it also.