Camp Fights

[KiwiHawk]

Given the meager evidence we have - there was a fight, both guys out for a few practices, the "aggressor" wearing a knee brace, and a history of Tom Cable offensive linemen using cut blocks, is it remotely possible that Iefedi hit Clark low and Clark took issue with it?

That would seem to explain pretty much everything, and quite frankly if I was a DL in camp and some OL took a shot at my knees (and hence my future in the NFL), I'd probably respond in much the same way.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Given the meager evidence we have - there was a fight, both guys out for a few practices, the "aggressor" wearing a knee brace, and a history of Tom Cable offensive linemen using cut blocks, is it remotely possible that Iefedi hit Clark low and Clark took issue with it?

That would seem to explain pretty much everything, and quite frankly if I was a DL in camp and some OL took a shot at my knees (and hence my future in the NFL), I'd probably respond in much the same way.

Danny O'Neil talked about what happened last week on his show. He said Ifedi was getting chippy with Clark and a couple of the D-linemen during drill practice...........................then pushed someone in the back on the way back to the huddle and Clark who wasn't even involved in that particular play came flying in and punched him in the face after Ifedi took his helmet off.

I don't care if Ifedi was the instigator, what Clark did is unacceptable, period. Pushing, shoving and getting chippy is part of football. Crossing the line into all out brawling and fighting is not.

 

[chris98251]

Clark needs his hands, didn't want to hurt them, we have seen that our O lineman don't use their heads so it was ok.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Danny O'Neil talked about what happened last week on his show. He said Ifedi was getting chippy with Clark and a couple of the D-linemen during drill practice...........................then pushed someone in the back on the way back to the huddle and Clark who wasn't even involved in that particular play came flying in and punched him in the face after Ifedi took his helmet off.

I don't care if Ifedi was the instigator, what Clark did is unacceptable, period. Pushing, shoving and getting chippy is part of football. Crossing the line into all out brawling and fighting is not.

I'm not disagreeing with you Sarge, but why is that the line? What Clark did, on the street, would be considered assault; he could be prosecuted yet no charges were filed, right? If what Ifedi did was egregious enough even as pushing, it could be construed nearly the same way. On the other hand, back-yard brawls that aren't reported are sometimes a way of boiling off steam. A little blood and some bruises, some swearing, and a later handshake when things simmer down, and it's all good.

So why isn't pushing/shoving/getting chippy--anything at all beyond the typical LOS maneuvering until the whistle--the line that shouldn't be crossed?

On the other hand, why not allow some brawling? Is it just injuries we're worried about? Why is the "fight" unacceptable in today's world?

I know it may be "Pete's line", too, but that doesn't make it the "right" one.

 

[Seymour]

So why isn't pushing/shoving/getting chippy--anything at all beyond the typical LOS maneuvering until the whistle--the line that shouldn't be crossed?

On the other hand, why not allow some brawling? Is it just injuries we're worried about? Why is the "fight" unacceptable in today's world?

I know it may be "Pete's line", too, but that doesn't make it the "right" one.

If you have to ask, then explaining it likely will not do much good.

 

[Ad Hawk]

So why isn't pushing/shoving/getting chippy--anything at all beyond the typical LOS maneuvering until the whistle--the line that shouldn't be crossed?

On the other hand, why not allow some brawling? Is it just injuries we're worried about? Why is the "fight" unacceptable in today's world?

I know it may be "Pete's line", too, but that doesn't make it the "right" one.

If you have to ask, then explaining it likely will not do much good.

The point is that it should be explained, not assumed.

What's your line?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Danny O'Neil talked about what happened last week on his show. He said Ifedi was getting chippy with Clark and a couple of the D-linemen during drill practice...........................then pushed someone in the back on the way back to the huddle and Clark who wasn't even involved in that particular play came flying in and punched him in the face after Ifedi took his helmet off.

I don't care if Ifedi was the instigator, what Clark did is unacceptable, period. Pushing, shoving and getting chippy is part of football. Crossing the line into all out brawling and fighting is not.

I'm not disagreeing with you Sarge, but why is that the line? What Clark did, on the street, would be considered assault; he could be prosecuted yet no charges were filed, right? If what Ifedi did was egregious enough even as pushing, it could be construed nearly the same way. On the other hand, back-yard brawls that aren't reported are sometimes a way of boiling off steam. A little blood and some bruises, some swearing, and a later handshake when things simmer down, and it's all good.

So why isn't pushing/shoving/getting chippy--anything at all beyond the typical LOS maneuvering until the whistle--the line that shouldn't be crossed?

On the other hand, why not allow some brawling? Is it just injuries we're worried about? Why is the "fight" unacceptable in today's world?

I know it may be "Pete's line", too, but that doesn't make it the "right" one.

Because football is a full contact sport played with testosterone, anger, passion and urgency. You have to expect there to be some shoving and pushing.

The great players learn how to harness that energy and don't cross the line. The knuckleheads don't.

Not calling Clark a knucklehead, he's very rarely lost his cool during the season. But what he did, to his own teammate btw is unacceptable. To answer your question, yes because all out brawling and fighting can lead to injuries.

What if Ifedi had a serious injury? Or Clark broke his hand punching? Should never do anything selfishly that affects the team, that includes fighting.

 

[Seymour]

So why isn't pushing/shoving/getting chippy--anything at all beyond the typical LOS maneuvering until the whistle--the line that shouldn't be crossed?

On the other hand, why not allow some brawling? Is it just injuries we're worried about? Why is the "fight" unacceptable in today's world?

I know it may be "Pete's line", too, but that doesn't make it the "right" one.

If you have to ask, then explaining it likely will not do much good.

The point is that it should be explained, not assumed.

What's your line?

The same as the teams. Fighting and intentionally risking injury to another player crosses it.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Danny O'Neil talked about what happened last week on his show. He said Ifedi was getting chippy with Clark and a couple of the D-linemen during drill practice...........................then pushed someone in the back on the way back to the huddle and Clark who wasn't even involved in that particular play came flying in and punched him in the face after Ifedi took his helmet off.

I don't care if Ifedi was the instigator, what Clark did is unacceptable, period. Pushing, shoving and getting chippy is part of football. Crossing the line into all out brawling and fighting is not.

I'm not disagreeing with you Sarge, but why is that the line? What Clark did, on the street, would be considered assault; he could be prosecuted yet no charges were filed, right? If what Ifedi did was egregious enough even as pushing, it could be construed nearly the same way. On the other hand, back-yard brawls that aren't reported are sometimes a way of boiling off steam. A little blood and some bruises, some swearing, and a later handshake when things simmer down, and it's all good.

So why isn't pushing/shoving/getting chippy--anything at all beyond the typical LOS maneuvering until the whistle--the line that shouldn't be crossed?

On the other hand, why not allow some brawling? Is it just injuries we're worried about? Why is the "fight" unacceptable in today's world?

I know it may be "Pete's line", too, but that doesn't make it the "right" one.

Because football is a full contact sport played with testosterone, anger, passion and urgency. You have to expect there to be some shoving and pushing.

The great players learn how to harness that energy and don't cross the line. The knuckleheads don't.

Not calling Clark a knucklehead, he's very rarely lost his cool during the season. But what he did, to his own teammate btw is unacceptable. To answer your question, yes because all out brawling and fighting can lead to injuries.

What if Ifedi had a serious injury? Or Clark broke his hand punching? Should never do anything selfishly that affects the team, that includes fighting.

Thanks for the honest reply, Sgt.

Your last line seems to place the value of the team (via injuries that could hurt "winning") ahead of the personal, individual value of the two involved and respect due as humans.

It's probably the common way most of us think about the subject, but closer scrutiny makes me think it's a curious-at-best approach to fighting "ethics" based on the fact that they're on a team rather than on the street.

 

[Seymour]

....The great players learn how to harness that energy and don't cross the line. The knuckleheads don't.

So Bennett would be a knucklehead for "beasting out" on the red headed QB?

 

[Ad Hawk]

So why isn't pushing/shoving/getting chippy--anything at all beyond the typical LOS maneuvering until the whistle--the line that shouldn't be crossed?

On the other hand, why not allow some brawling? Is it just injuries we're worried about? Why is the "fight" unacceptable in today's world?

I know it may be "Pete's line", too, but that doesn't make it the "right" one.

If you have to ask, then explaining it likely will not do much good.

The point is that it should be explained, not assumed.

What's your line?

The same as the teams. Fighting and intentionally risking injury to another player crosses it.

Great, but it doesn't explain why the line should be there.

Team value trumps personal human value, then. Yes?

 

[Seymour]

If you have to ask, then explaining it likely will not do much good.

The point is that it should be explained, not assumed.

What's your line?

The same as the teams. Fighting and intentionally risking injury to another player crosses it.

Great, but it doesn't explain why the line should be there.

Team value trumps personal human value, then. Yes?

It does. Risking injury is #1 obviously.

 

[Ad Hawk]

The point is that it should be explained, not assumed.

What's your line?

The same as the teams. Fighting and intentionally risking injury to another player crosses it.

Great, but it doesn't explain why the line should be there.

Team value trumps personal human value, then. Yes?

It does. Risking injury is #1 obviously.

So, outside of the football field, the fight may have been acceptable since potential injuries wouldn't affect a team...

Would this be a logical extrapolation? Or do other rules then apply?

I'm really curious, then, why Clark wasn't formally charged. Are football players simply exempt since they're in abusiness where violent hitting is OK in certain parameters?

 

[DJrmb]

It's interesting to me how fighting or punching someone in Football is perceived vs how it is perceived in Hockey.

I'm not arguing one way or the other, because even in my own thoughts I felt that punching someone in a football practice crossed a line. Part of it was it being his own teammate yes, but the other negative possibilities (injury, hurting your team) are still possible in a Hockey fights but it just feels different doesn't it? Hockey fights seem to be something almost admired.

 

[Ad Hawk]

It's interesting to me how fighting or punching someone in Football is perceived vs how it is perceived in Hockey.

I'm not arguing one way or the other, because even in my own thoughts I felt that punching someone in a football practice crossed a line. Part of it was it being his own teammate yes, but the other negative possibilities (injury, hurting your team) are still possible in a Hockey fights but it just feels different doesn't it? Hockey fights seem to be something almost admired.

That's part of the challenge of thinking about this subject. Some venues think fights add to the spice. Others expect you to be respectful at all times. Boxing and MMA IS all fighting. Strange...

Much is allowed or even expected on the (practice and game) field/arena of many sports that wouldn't be allowed outside of it. Why the double standard or at least variance?

 

[pmedic920]

We all have our own "line".
It's part of what makes us individuals.

Let me explain with a graphic example.
In Texas, citizens have the right to use deadly force to protect their person AND their property/belongings.

I wouldn't shoot a dude for stealing my BBQ grill off of my deck.
I would shoot that same dude if I walked into my house and he was threatening or raping my wife or daughter.
That's an over simplified version of my "line".

I don't like the fact that these guys are missing practice because of a "fight", maybe because of discipline, maybe because of injuries.

Although I have no real right to judge, I'll reserve my judgment until I know why the "punch" happened.

We don't know why it happened, we don't know the line that was crossed.
It may have been nothing in some of our eyes, it may have been 100% justified in others.

The fact is....
.....we don't know.


Even if it was a "sucker punch", how can anyone decide if it was warranted if we don't know why it happened?

We all have our own "line", who's really to say if the line is in the right place?

I hate that it may have hurt "my" team but it may have been "worth it".

I just don't know, and may never know.


Edit: you might not be willing to shoot a dude for any reason.
That makes neither of right or wrong.
It simply makes us different from one another.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

Ifedi is soft? Thx for the laugh

Haven't read the thread but have read a lot elsewhere and think this: Ifedi may have 'instigated' the (yes, dumbass) punch Clark threw; and Ifedi also being held out of recent practices could reflect 'discretion' (penalty) too. He has a history of being at the front end of aggressive incidents, there is below zero hint of 'soft' in that guy.

 

[KiwiHawk]

I'm still skeptical. I didn't hear what Danny said, so I don't know if he went into any details bout what was going on prior to the event. Seems unreasonable to me that Clark would randomly throw a punch even if sticking up for a teammate if it was just a shove, without additional provocation.

That kind of reaction usually comes after repeated offenses.

I don't like the result any more than any of you, but I'm not inclined to place all the blame on Clark or get on board with the Clark-lost-it bandwagon without a much greater understanding of the circumstances.

I will say I would rather have this sort of event happen than to have the entire OL stand there watching Hasselbeck take a cheap shot and doing nothing about it.

Edit: Oh and for the record, pretty much everything they do on the football field is at least a misdemeanor if you do it on the street, up to and including wearing lycra Capri pants.

 

[two dog]

I liked reading in the Seattle times the next day how coach Peterson handles fights
at the University of Washington.
He makes them hold hands and walk once around the field. He calls it "lovers lane".

Not sure that would work with Clark and Ifedi though. They might kill each other
before they made it around the field.

It was stupid though. I know of nothing good that ever came from clocking a teammate.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

I'm still skeptical. I didn't hear what Danny said, so I don't know if he went into any details bout what was going on prior to the event. Seems unreasonable to me that Clark would randomly throw a punch even if sticking up for a teammate if it was just a shove, without additional provocation.

That kind of reaction usually comes after repeated offenses.

I don't like the result any more than any of you, but I'm not inclined to place all the blame on Clark or get on board with the Clark-lost-it bandwagon without a much greater understanding of the circumstances.

I will say I would rather have this sort of event happen than to have the entire OL stand there watching Hasselbeck take a cheap shot and doing nothing about it.

Edit: Oh and for the record, pretty much everything they do on the football field is at least a misdemeanor if you do it on the street, up to and including wearing lycra Capri pants.

Dude, you just crossed that line. :stirthepot: :rumble: :3-1: