At What Point Do We Start Blaming Schneider?

[Hawk-Lock]

Since we are already pointing the finger at Bevell, PC, Russell Wilson, the entire secondary.....at what point do we blame JS? I'm not saying we should, but if you are going to point fingers at the others, then why not him?

- Percy Harvin trade
- Jimmy Graham trade (still TBD, but we gave up a lot and Oline is struggling badly)
- Hasn't re-invested in the Oline in years, let Breno and Carp walk
- Whiffed on some high draft picks (Moffitt, CMike, etc.)
- Hasn't addressed our weak WR corps for multiple years in a row
- And for all you Bevell haters, isn't he the one who would be in charge of firing Bevell?

I have no problem with JS, but I do have a problem with him putting little to no emphasis on the OLine. I also have a problem with him dealing away our first round pick two years in a row.

 

[bmorepunk]

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Just for the record before people start bashing me......

I'm pro JS
I'm pro Bevell
I'm pro RW
I'm pro Seahawk
I still think we make the playoffs

I've just seen a ton of threads bashing RW, the defense and Bevell, just wondering why not JS.

 

[mrt144]

I honestly feel like a lot of wrong lessons were learned due to success.

1. The team doesn't need to invest in O Line or keep continuity intact. Hawks can just plug and play regardless.
2. Refusal to bring in solid route running WRs through FA and relying on completely homegrown talent outside of one player. Maybe they're not really developing that well but then we see Tate, the last bonafide WR we drafted walk out the door and do well.

Because of the low volume of games its hard to know if and how these kinds of risks will play out but it really seems like the MinMax has gone too far and it's in a spot that can't be fixed readily in season.

We can point to other teams that build their entire team around facilitating the best possible QB play and they make the trade off in other arenas but it's clear to me at least that the Seahawks philosophy isn't conducive to figuring out the right lessons and adjusting accordingly when they are identified.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

John answers to Pete.

 

[SeahawksFanForever]

They have made some questionable moves.

"We spent a 5th rounder on Kelcie McCray. Jets got a WR1 (Brandon Marshall) for the same cost. Let that sink in." - Good point by DavidSeven in another thread

JS can draft but isn't good at making solid trades. We almost always overpay.

 

[mrt144]

They have made some questionable moves.

"We spent a 5th rounder on Kelcie McCray. Jets got a WR1 (Brandon Marshall) for the same cost. Let that sink in." - Good point by DavidSeven in another thread

JS can draft but isn't good at making solid trades. We almost always overpay.

And then try and integrate them into a system that would really benefit from all around better fundamental football instead of hoping they are so talented it doesn't matter what we do as long as they get the ball.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

They have made some questionable moves.

"We spent a 5th rounder on Kelcie McCray. Jets got a WR1 (Brandon Marshall) for the same cost. Let that sink in." - Good point by DavidSeven in another thread

JS can draft but isn't good at making solid trades. We almost always overpay.

The Marshall trade was a bit of a headscratcher. How the Jets got him for only a 5th rounder, I dont' know. He is what we wanted but at a much cheaper price. I'm sure we aren't the only team wishing we traded a 5th rounder for Marshall right now.

 

[kearly]

FWIW McCray has looked really good on specials so far. I don't mind that trade at all.

I was shocked when Seattle didn't go after Marshall. I thought it was the obvious move of the offseason. But like Jared Allen the year before, sometimes the most obvious moves are the ones teams don't make.

 

[Yxes1122]

On paper, Seattle's offense should be top 10 in the league. I get that the Oline hasn't come together but at what point do we start looking at WHY all the talent JS brings in doesn't work. Harvin, Graham, Rice, Miller. All were very productive players on other teams that fizzled out in Seattle. At the end of the day I think the root of the issue is either Coaching (because there is a massive lack of creativity on offense) or Russ. Take away a trick play that works once a season if you're lucky, and we had a pretty horrendous day passing. It is not all on the O line. And I actually think we have a pretty talented WR core.

Baldwin would be a 1000+ yard WR on another offense and Lockett is developing into a very good talent and PRich flashed greatness on timing routes when he was healthy. Graham's resume speaks for itself. With Lynch in the backfield (and he looked much more like the Lynch of old in the last game), why can't we move the ball with any consistency. The offense looks like a bad quarterback offense. Back to the days of TJack. And I can't lay that all on the feet of the Oline. Why is Wilson scrambling up the middle from his 10 yard line with :29 seconds left? One of his best qualities even as a rookie was knowing when he had to take shots. So far he hasn't shown that same understanding of game script.

I'm not trying to lay this all on the feet of Russell. The Oline plays a role and it has so far impacted our season. But a great QB can overcome poor offensive line play. And hearing Pete talk to Brock and Salk this morning, I feel like Pete is laying a portion of this offense's woahs on Russ. When I hear Pete say that there are plays every game that Russ could have made if he had just stood in the pocket a little longer, or stepped up or gotten rid of the ball quicker, I get the feeling that there is something to it.

Either way, I don't think JS has done a poor job filling this offense with talent. Yes he's whiffed on picks, but that is going to happen. And ultimately I don't think C-Mike was a talent issue so much as a fit. I also think that JS picks guys the coaches want, and I think Cable guys have proven to be pretty horrendous. When Seattle selects offensive lineman Cable is usually one of the first guys to speak about it. I can't lay all these O-line troubles at the feet of JS. If anything, you can argue that JS's model of paying the top 10 percent big and having no middle class is not a sustainable model, but I don't think that applies to this teams current problems. I think most of these issues have a whole lot more to do with offensive coaching and QB execution.

 

[lobohawk]

Have the feeling that Percy was a Pete and not John choice.

 

[Barthawk]

Marshall salary 2015: 9M

McCray salary 2015: 570k

that is one reason why they didn't pursue Brandon Marshall.. a guy that has been traded 3 times in the NFL.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Marshall salary 2015: 9M

McCray salary 2015: 570k

that is one reason why they didn't pursue Brandon Marshall.. a guy that has been traded 3 times in the NFL.

Marshall and Graham are owed similar money on a per year basis (right around 9-10 mill per year). The main difference is one guy cost a first round pick and our pro-bowl center, and the other only cost a 5th rounder.

 

[justafan]

The same time we start blaming Paul Allen.These guys brought something to this city we never had.
The year is off to a tough start but thats about all it is.

The talent is still here to win a SB.He still has the skill to draft like we have never seen here.These guys have built up a lot of equity.
Even if we go 4-12, next year the SB is still possible.

 

[HunnyBadger]

Every front office will make mistakes (not just in the NFL, but in all companies and in all industries). Schneider's positives still outweigh his negatives.

That being said, in my opinion, the three things that has really hurt Schneider are:
1. Deferring to Cable too much on the Oline picks.
2. Selecting Paul Richardson instead of a solid OLineman in 2014.
3. Misjudging Christine Michaels mental make-up.

I really don't think the Harvin or Graham trades were bad. Of course Harvin didn't pan out, but the trade was fine with me, and still is. Ditto with the Graham trade; we saw a good glimpse this weekend of why we got him.

 

[DavidSeven]

It's impossible to say who's to blame, but I do think overall we have "lost the offseason" the last couple of years.

Questionable trades and questionable return on draft value. That's been an ongoing issue to me, and I feel our depth has suffered considerably as a result.

Certainly, failing to address the OL and blocking TE was a huge misstep. What are we actually doing here? Was there ever a plan? We shuffled three positions on the OL two weeks before the season started. If Patrick Lewis was the better player all along, why did we lose three games while starting Nowak? Isn't it obvious to everyone what Britt is and isn't at this point? I have given a ton of slack to the OL over the last few years, but what they did this year was unacceptable. If we have even a mediocre OL (rather than league-worst), we might actually be 5-1 or 6-0 at this point. IMO, this entire season has largely been derailed by this issue that everyone saw but no one addressed. If we could run or protect in the 4th Quarter, a million of our other problems go away.

On the draft front, besides Lockett and maybe Frank Clark, our drafts have also generally been poor after 2012. Haven't added a single game-changer via draft since that time. Meanwhile, Arizona has added a couple key pieces in every draft during that same stretch.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's an NFL football team, when you're losing everyone get some blame..........from the top down.

IMO Schneider is pretty far behind Richard, Cable, Bevell, Pete and half the players if we're handing out blame.

Schneider resigned 90% of the players he said he was going to resign in order to keep this SB roster in tact, and has supplemented some nice draft picks like Hill, KPL, Marsh, Clark, Lockett, etc to fill in the gaps as needed.

Bottom line for me, this team has MORE than enough talent that Schneider drafted and signed to new contracts. Now the players and coaches need to play up to that level that's expected out of them.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Schneider certainly deserves blame for the Hawks decline.

The Harvin trade was one of the 3 worst trades in NFL history. It's impossible to make horrendous trades like that and not decline as a team.

The Hawks did not draft any game-changers, or really any replacements for upcoming FAs, so our salary cap got spent really quickly without being able to FIX our problems.

In the salary cap era a team's success lasts only a couple years after they stop being successful in the draft (or can no longer sign top guys cheap like the Pats can still do).

To the people saying Schneider did well because he re-signed a lot of our guys.....WRONG. We "had to" resign those guys because we failed to draft replacements.

We need to REPLACE guys with cheaper younger guys out of college.

The Hawks drafts have not been good enough, and our trades have not been good enough to maintain the same talent level that we had a couple years ago. The players weve lost have been better than the players weve added.

 

[SeahawksFanForever]

Seahawks are not good at drafting OL & DL. People make the argument college isn't producing enough OL therefore everyone in the league isn't having much success at drafting OL. Okay, I get that but what about DL? Frank Clark is Schneider's first DL pick that might end up being really good.

 

[EastCoastHawksFan]

Daryl Tapp for Clemons and a 5th was a pretty good trade .

Trading for Lynch , Leon Washington(*?) also worked out well .

Schenider enjoys trading 1st round picks because they make too much money and if they dont pan out then well it sucks.