Amazing game by Russell Wilson today

[Seymour]

If he's running for his life AND trying to extend plays, isn't that naturally going to add to the time he "holds the ball" though? Just sayin

So would being slow to read zones make it more likely that the pressure gets there forcing him to run.

My perception is similar to Tical based on what I see with my eyes. But there is no way to quantify it.

Being extremely careful with the ball (Pete Carroll top priority) and making sure you do not turn it over at or near league best rates means you will need to take more time also! There is more than 1 possible explanation beyond can't read zone coverage. :roll:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

There's a reason that his TD to INT ratio is among the best of all time. That's a bad thing? :lol:
Taking a sack >>>>>> turnover

 

[Fade]

If he's running for his life AND trying to extend plays, isn't that naturally going to add to the time he "holds the ball" though? Just sayin

So would being slow to read zones make it more likely that the pressure gets there forcing him to run.

My perception is similar to Tical based on what I see with my eyes. But there is no way to quantify it.

Scheme effects TTT though.


You can't be honestly pointing to TTT and completely ignore the scheme.

Scheme is the biggest factor in TTT.

If time to throw is a big concern then you need to point the finger at the coaching staff, as RW showed last week, he has no trouble getting the ball out quick against zone if the scheme demands it.

Coach doesn't like dink and dunk. So don't be surprised when his QBs have a high TTT.

 

[Seymour]

If he's running for his life AND trying to extend plays, isn't that naturally going to add to the time he "holds the ball" though? Just sayin

So would being slow to read zones make it more likely that the pressure gets there forcing him to run.

My perception is similar to Tical based on what I see with my eyes. But there is no way to quantify it.

Scheme effects TTT though.


You can't be honestly pointing to TTT and completely ignore the scheme.

Scheme is the biggest factor in TTT.

If time to throw is a big concern then you need to point the finger at the coaching staff, as RW showed last week, he has no trouble getting the ball out quick against zone if the scheme demands it.

Coach doesn't like dink and dunk. So don't be surprised when his QBs have a high TTT.

Exactly what I just proved by posting Wilson being the fastest to release in 2019 with just 1 game of scheme change! Completely blows up their entire premise this is all on Wilson!!

Let me post that again on this page!!!

Wilson 2019 2.26 TT tops in the NFL after 2 games.

 

[McGruff]

Not even worth the effort. The guy can't win, regardless how well has played his entire career. Let alone on Sunday.
Go Hawks

The problem is tha I dont think Tical or others who might point out weaknesses actually believe that Russell cant win or sucks or isnt a top 5 quarterback.

Again and again I have to remind people that sports, like life, isnt binary. It's not zeros and ones.

Russ is awesome. Russ has flaws. Those two things can coexist and be rationally discussed.

Cant they?

 

[McGruff]

If he's running for his life AND trying to extend plays, isn't that naturally going to add to the time he "holds the ball" though? Just sayin

So would being slow to read zones make it more likely that the pressure gets there forcing him to run.

My perception is similar to Tical based on what I see with my eyes. But there is no way to quantify it.

Scheme effects TTT though.


You can't be honestly pointing to TTT and completely ignore the scheme.

Scheme is the biggest factor in TTT.

If time to throw is a big concern then you need to point the finger at the coaching staff, as RW showed last week, he has no trouble getting the ball out quick against zone if the scheme demands it.

Coach doesn't like dink and dunk. So don't be surprised when his QBs have a high TTT.

Pitts defensive scheme plays a huge roll in that too, though. They historically play aggressive front 7 and passive back 4, leading to vulnerabilities in the mid range. We took advantage of that.

Against a different defense such a tactic would yield wildly different results.

 

[Seymour]

Not even worth the effort. The guy can't win, regardless how well has played his entire career. Let alone on Sunday.
Go Hawks

The problem is tha I dont think Tical or others who might point out weaknesses actually believe that Russell cant win or sucks or isnt a top 5 quarterback.

Again and again I have to remind people that sports, like life, isnt binary. It's not zeros and ones.

Russ is awesome. Russ has flaws. Those two things can coexist and be rationally discussed.

Cant they?

Sure they can be discussed. But when all the facts and statistics are posted, and people ignore or disregard them, that is the point where the "flaws" are being exaggerated and blown out of proportion which is maddening since he is "our QB". Every QB has flaws and statistics compare how he ranks against the field. Problem is there are variables that come into play, but when you look closely at them (historically bad oline pass protection---run or die, scheme, highest priority to not turn ball over, ability to make big plays extending the play....ect), they all add up to favor and explain why what you see is not 100% truth.

 

[McGruff]

I, like Tical, believe statistic dont tell the whole story.

 

[Seymour]

I, like Tical, believe statistic dont tell the whole story.

Neither do most of us, but it is the best place to start!

Please explain your formula to those of us that require more than "your eye test" then.

Then ask yourself if those variables I spoke of are possibly at least part of the problem. Then go look at other QB's that have jail break olines combined with deep route schemes and see if they too have those issues.

If they do, then you are seeing a normal reaction to those conditions...not a "flaw"!!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's one of the best in the league. And his "flaws" outweigh his positives. Even pretty boy Brady and float in mid air Rodgers have flaws. Believe it not.

 

[McGruff]

He's one of the best in the league. And his "flaws" outweigh his positives. Even pretty boy Brady and float in mid air Rodgers have flaws. Believe it not.

I believe it.

But I'm not sure your 2nd sentence says what you want it to . . .

And why put "flaws" in quotes if you can admit that he has them?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I have zero problem saying he has flaws, all QB's do. He sometimes holds on to the ball too long instead of throwing it away. Sometimes has open lanes to run but keeps it instead of running. It happens. But, this is coming from fans in the STANDS or on their COUCHES. I've never said he was a perfect QB, but ok. He's just a lot better than many refuse to admit he is, and/or always seem to have to justify WHY he's so good instead of just admitting that he IS damn good.
He's a QB, they often get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose.
We all have our opinions and that's cool. Go Hawks

 

[John63]

Fact. Holds the ball longer than anyone. Verifiable. Fact. Always near the top of the league in sacks. If you were to try to decipher if someone had trouble reading zone coverages, aren’t those EXACTLY what you would look at?

Where are these FACTS you keep bragging about providing?

Bullshit!

Last year he was 3rd longest at 3.02, mostly due to extending plays and the lack of a short passing game and long developing routes they prefer to run. This year with them opening up the short passing game like most every other QB is being graded with...he has the fastest TT (time to throw) in the NFL!!! :177692:

Just stop with the too short, I'll find something bad in his game BS. :roll:

Against the Bengals in game one, Wilson was 27th by my count in time to throw.

Just saying let's see if this short passing attack is a one game wrinkle or a new development.

You just proved the point I have been trying to make. his TTT is not a Wilson thing but a system thing. Tical is trying to say it is a Wilson thing and in fact he cant throw short which is factually in accurate.

 

[Tical21]

If he's running for his life AND trying to extend plays, isn't that naturally going to add to the time he "holds the ball" though? Just sayin

So would being slow to read zones make it more likely that the pressure gets there forcing him to run.

My perception is similar to Tical based on what I see with my eyes. But there is no way to quantify it.

Scheme effects TTT though.


You can't be honestly pointing to TTT and completely ignore the scheme.

Scheme is the biggest factor in TTT.

If time to throw is a big concern then you need to point the finger at the coaching staff, as RW showed last week, he has no trouble getting the ball out quick against zone if the scheme demands it.

Coach doesn't like dink and dunk. So don't be surprised when his QBs have a high TTT.

In ‘17 our scheme was based on short passing game and he held the ball the second longest behind Watson.

Y’all have an excuse for everything.

I never said he wasn’t incredibly productive. He can certainly play passably well in any offense. But if you want him to play like the best player in the league, he needs a little help in the form of simpler coverages. Someone like Luck, much like Russ was in 16 or 17, had to throw into the teeth of zone defenses in order for his team to have a chance to win. It’s tough to do it that way and only the elite of the elite pocket passers can STILL have elite ratings despite the defense basing their game plan on stopping that kind of passing game. Now, it’s my assertion that this isn’t the best part of Russ’ game, and he to maximize his incredible deep accuracy and playmaking ability, you should give him simpler coverages and time and space that play-action off of a dominant running game creates. Get him out of the junk.

 

[John63]

If he's running for his life AND trying to extend plays, isn't that naturally going to add to the time he "holds the ball" though? Just sayin

So would being slow to read zones make it more likely that the pressure gets there forcing him to run.

My perception is similar to Tical based on what I see with my eyes. But there is no way to quantify it.

It could but it could also be many other things and if you have no fats to show it is his factually inaccurate lack of ability to read zone, then why go that way, it could just as easily be the system, the design, the Wr, the oline etc etc. They only reason to say it is because Wilson cant read zone which again has been proven to be factually in accurate is because you want to. Hence why I asked for facts, I showed facts showing it is wrong, but so far no fact showing it is because he cant read zone.

Thats my stance till you so FACTS that prove he cant read zone, you have nothing, but your desire to show Wilson cant do something that FACTUALLY he can do.

I showed facts showing he can.

 

[John63]

Not even worth the effort. The guy can't win, regardless how well has played his entire career. Let alone on Sunday.
Go Hawks

The problem is tha I dont think Tical or others who might point out weaknesses actually believe that Russell cant win or sucks or isnt a top 5 quarterback.

Again and again I have to remind people that sports, like life, isnt binary. It's not zeros and ones.

Russ is awesome. Russ has flaws. Those two things can coexist and be rationally discussed.

Cant they?

Yes but if we are going to point out a flaw lets one make sure it really is his flaw and not a flaw of the system and 2 have proof not just an opinion. NOt that you cant have yoru own opinin but without facts to suppor tit it is worthless.

 

[Fade]

If he's running for his life AND trying to extend plays, isn't that naturally going to add to the time he "holds the ball" though? Just sayin

So would being slow to read zones make it more likely that the pressure gets there forcing him to run.

My perception is similar to Tical based on what I see with my eyes. But there is no way to quantify it.

Scheme effects TTT though.


You can't be honestly pointing to TTT and completely ignore the scheme.

Scheme is the biggest factor in TTT.

If time to throw is a big concern then you need to point the finger at the coaching staff, as RW showed last week, he has no trouble getting the ball out quick against zone if the scheme demands it.

Coach doesn't like dink and dunk. So don't be surprised when his QBs have a high TTT.

In ‘17 our scheme was based on short passing game and he held the ball the second longest behind Watson.

Y’all have an excuse for everything.

I never said he wasn’t incredibly productive. He can certainly play passably well in any offense. But if you want him to play like the best player in the league, he needs a little help in the form of simpler coverages. Someone like Luck, much like Russ was in 16 or 17, had to throw into the teeth of zone defenses in order for his team to have a chance to win. It’s tough to do it that way and only the elite of the elite pocket passers can STILL have elite ratings despite the defense basing their game plan on stopping that kind of passing game. Now, it’s my assertion that this isn’t the best part of Russ’ game, and he to maximize his incredible deep accuracy and playmaking ability, you should give him simpler coverages and time and space that play-action off of a dominant running game creates. Get him out of the junk.

He held the ball a lot of the time because all of the underneath defenders where squatting/sitting on the short routes (with safety help over the top) because they knew the ball had to come out quick because Seattle's O-Line couldn't protect.

Wilson's response to this tactic was to hold the ball, extend the play, buy time, stretch out their zones, and punish them.

I don't think you fully grasp how bad the situation was those years. Pete doesn't like firing coaches. Cable & Bevell gave him no choice.

 

[Seymour]

Oh look!!! Tom Brady hits his back foot and doesn't get rid of the ball and takes a strip fumble! My eyes tell me he holds the ball too long!!
Forget the fact his oline is being steamrolled into him before the play develops....that has nothing to do with what happened!
Gee...I wonder what Brady would look like if he dealt with this every game in his NFL career because his coach only concerned himself with finding run blockers and ignored the quick passing game to combat this?? :roll: ukeface:

 

[John63]

So would being slow to read zones make it more likely that the pressure gets there forcing him to run.

My perception is similar to Tical based on what I see with my eyes. But there is no way to quantify it.

Scheme effects TTT though.


You can't be honestly pointing to TTT and completely ignore the scheme.

Scheme is the biggest factor in TTT.

If time to throw is a big concern then you need to point the finger at the coaching staff, as RW showed last week, he has no trouble getting the ball out quick against zone if the scheme demands it.

Coach doesn't like dink and dunk. So don't be surprised when his QBs have a high TTT.

In ‘17 our scheme was based on short passing game and he held the ball the second longest behind Watson.

Y’all have an excuse for everything.

I never said he wasn’t incredibly productive. He can certainly play passably well in any offense. But if you want him to play like the best player in the league, he needs a little help in the form of simpler coverages. Someone like Luck, much like Russ was in 16 or 17, had to throw into the teeth of zone defenses in order for his team to have a chance to win. It’s tough to do it that way and only the elite of the elite pocket passers can STILL have elite ratings despite the defense basing their game plan on stopping that kind of passing game. Now, it’s my assertion that this isn’t the best part of Russ’ game, and he to maximize his incredible deep accuracy and playmaking ability, you should give him simpler coverages and time and space that play-action off of a dominant running game creates. Get him out of the junk.

He held the ball a lot of the time because all of the underneath defenders where squatting/sitting on the short routes (with safety help over the top) because they knew the ball had to come out quick because Seattle's O-Line couldn't protect.

Wilson's response to this tactic was to hold the ball, extend the play, buy time, stretch out their zones, and punish them.

I don't think you fully grasp how bad the situation was those years. Pete doesn't like firing coaches. Cable & Bevell gave him no choice.

Dude it is not that he does not understand, he does not want to, all he wants is to be right and be able to say Wilson is not good. Again he mentions 2017 but no facts to support them. He started this saying he cant read zone defenses. A thing that has been factually proven to be wrong. Then he tried moving on to he cant do a short passing game, which again has been proven to be factually incorrect. so now he is moving on to something else, and again no facts just his opinion. We are not going to change his opinion, he will not change ours. He knows PC has said he doe sot like short passing, he knows PC has said he likes taking alot of shots down field, and he knows taking shots mean taking time. But it does not matter, he needs to blame Wilson for anything he can.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Most QB's are guilty of holding the ball too long. So what? He has made some of the most incredible plays while scrambling. Among the best we have ever seen. In fact, it's scary to think what their win totals would be w/out that guy under center. ukeface: