ADB gets real (KJ podcast)

[strohmin]

Pete took accountability for calling that play. However in reality it was Bevell who called the play and set personnel grouping. Then Bevell tried to throw players, specifically Lockette, under the bus. Pete’s mistake was continuing to stick by Bevell. Should have fired him (Bevell) on the spot.

He didnt take any real accoutability other than just blaming it on his philosophy. Yeah he should have fired Bevell then and there

We need to win another super bowl to get this awful taste out of our mouths... Or at the very least make it to another one just to say the Seahawks got back.

I dunno, I feel like we have to win one to get this monkey off our back. Losing another one would just bring back memories of this superbowl.

 

[FlyingGunHawk]

He didnt take any real accoutability other than just blaming it on his philosophy. Yeah he should have fired Bevell then and there

I dunno, I feel like we have to win one to get this monkey off our back. Losing another one would just bring back memories of this superbowl.

Fair enough.

 

[BASF]

@keasley45 thank you for the screen shots.

This picture shows exactly when the ball is supposed to be thrown. A taller QB makes this throw when it is supposed to be and we score. Me3 could have made this throw if the linemen pointed out in my previous post open the passing lane like they were supposed to have done and we score.

That being said, it was a stupid play call. We only ran this route from this formation. If Bevell dialed up a different route getting Lockette to the outside, it is pitch and catch for the walk in touchdown.

 

[pmedic920]

Both. Because little brother will without a doubt become spoiled, entitled, and take advantage of the fact that the rules are skewed to him and that he can leave me out to dangle to save his own ass whenever he wants and be treated as if nothing happened.

I agree, and with that is all the reason I need to understand what happened.
ie where “the Chemistry” went.

I’ve always held to my opinion that a bunch of misfits with great chemistry and brotherhood can beat the hell out of a team full of talent that have none.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

The one thing that perplexes me the most is how it was on 2nd down. Granted if the play call worked in the Seahawks favor and they scored I would be praising it. Ying and Yang

The way I say it was that if they were going to throw it had to be on 2nd down since they had 1 time out left.

And sherm was playing injured as well.. tharold simon.. or Jlane someone got a broken arm.. and avril was removed because of a concussion... in which edelmans bitch as should've been pulled by the NFL as well since the NFL pulled Avril (not pete and co)

Chancellor hurt his knee the day before in the last practice and there was actually a concern if he could suit up. So the big 3 of the LOB were all playing hurt and then the D lost 2 more guys in came.

 

[TwilightError]

The way they torched Tharold Simons side, its no certainty that the Hawks win even if that ball is catched for a touchdown. 20 seconds could have been enough for the Pats with 2 timeouts.

In the discussion with Sherm Pete says the play just happened. And so it did. Impossible to say what the other possibilities could have been.

Maybe it just would have been easier to accept if they had handed it to Lynch, even if the end result would have been the same.

 

[pittpnthrs]

As fans I think it's hard sometimes to give credit where it's due to the other team: The Patriots DB make an incredible play in a pivotal moment. And the rest is history.

It was a great play, but some credit is lost because they knew what the play was before the ball was ever snapped. Browner saw it every day in practice just a year prior. Add the fact that Seattle had the worst possible personnel on the field to execute the play and it loses some bonus points overall.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You are talking about two different things. Complacency is not what killed this team. Complacency or degrees of it can be expected once you achieve a goal. For the conversation everyday NOT to be about winning a championship and proving to the world you are the best is understandable after you've won one.

Doug pretty plainly stated that even in 2018, he was motivated to continue winning more than anything. The pieces that left before him didn't leave and then just collect a huge paycheck. They went where they could win and where the culture was geared toward winning. They left hear, as Doug said, because it had been lost.

I get it's hard to swallow, but the team broke because of how Pete handled Russ. I dint get the need to defend the dude. If you think he was so on the up, then how do you explain Beast Mode on the one hand wanting to reach out, but then saying 'f that' when he was told to go through Russs handler? Staying on him - how do you explain the resentment he felt when he admitted not wanting tonsee Russ succeed in Seattle? Let me guess, it's all about the SB ?

The clamoring to grab onto any shred of alternate narrative that saves you from the truth that Russ was a flawed player who was wrongly given a pass... even though there has never been a player who denied it... is amazing.

The idea that it was jealousy or laziness on the part of those speaking out now? I get it if Russ has shown to be a solid, stand up guy who can play the position really well, but each of those characteristics that should be vindication for him in hindsight and the years that followed the break up of the dynasty, actually substantiated everything being said.

He isn't a stand up guy. Making former teammates talk to your secretary?? Skimming cash from a charity? Lying about being blindsided by the trade? Throwing former teammates under the bus? Lobbying to get your coach and GM fired??

In terms of his play - other than stats, or claiming tape showing Russ blatantly missing plays over and over again that killed drives is cherry picking and just hate, you can't show solid evidence that the guy can read defenses at a level that remotely parallels his experience. He puts years of tape out there as evidence that his LOB teammates were absolutkey justified in being upset at mistakes that have now run 10+ years not bring fixed... and Pete never openly criticized him for it.

It's all exactly as has been stated. There's no mystery. Charades only ever last but so long.

For Russ, good for him that it got him his huge payday. But he will for certain never sniff the HOF. Anybody who knows football can look at who and what he is as a player and see, like his teammates did, that his holes are too many. And now, when gifted with the coach he always wanted and who was certain to be able to help him over the handcuff that was Nat Hackett (and before that, Pete), he put the nails in his own coffin and removed all doubt.

Except that he and his fans will claim that Pete ruined him with all the hits he forced him to take.

Can't wait until the next teammate from that period comes on KJs podcast. Hoping one day Earl gets his sh!+ together and can offer his perspective.

You are so hung up on Wilsons personality rather than his play. I dont get it. The guy played lights out for years, but yet your blaming him for the teams demise why? Because he didnt kiss everybodys @ss and wasnt best friends with some of his teammates? Talent wise, yes he had some flaws, but who doesnt? No player is perfect. The truth is, his plusses far outweighed his negatives. As far as players leaving to go to other teams that had a better chance to win, hell Russell Wilson did the samething. Whats the common denominator with that? They all knew what the writing on the wall was. There's a reason Wilson lobbied to get the coach canned that supposedly coddled him as you put it.

 

[sc85sis]

He didnt take any real accoutability other than just blaming it on his philosophy. Yeah he should have fired Bevell then and there

I dunno, I feel like we have to win one to get this monkey off our back. Losing another one would just bring back memories of this superbowl.

I heard somewhere (can’t recall where—might have been a podcast) that Pete took responsibility in the locker room after the game by saying it was on him.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Can someone point me to a video of ANY of the defensive players from that team "taking accountability" for squandering that (10 point?) lead? I'm sure it exists, I just don't recall ever seeing it.

I dont think they have any accountability to take. The entire secondary was hurt to the point that they shouldnt have even played yet they left it all out on the field as best they could. Yeah they squandered a 10 point lead in a game Seattle had no business even having a 10 point lead. They played their hearts out and Seattle should have won the game. That makes the play and the outcome all the more worse.

 

[pittpnthrs]

@keasley45 thank you for the screen shots.

This picture shows exactly when the ball is supposed to be thrown. A taller QB makes this throw when it is supposed to be and we score. Me3 could have made this throw if the linemen pointed out in my previous post open the passing lane like they were supposed to have done and we score.

That being said, it was a stupid play call. We only ran this route from this formation. If Bevell dialed up a different route getting Lockette to the outside, it is pitch and catch for the walk in touchdown.

Look at the picture again. Even if he makes the catch, he isnt scoring. Butler is right there. Butler is either intercepting the pass or knocking him on his @ss. It was a horrible play call.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Maybe it just would have been easier to accept if they had handed it to Lynch, even if the end result would have been the same.

Of course it would be. Lynch or Ricardo Lockette? Lynch is a strength. Lockette is a weakness.

 

[keasley45]

You are so hung up on Wilsons personality rather than his play. I dont get it. The guy played lights out for years, but yet your blaming him for the teams demise why? Because he didnt kiss everybodys @ss and wasnt best friends with some of his teammates? Talent wise, yes he had some flaws, but who doesnt? No player is perfect. The truth is, his plusses far outweighed his negatives. As far as players leaving to go to other teams that had a better chance to win, hell Russell Wilson did the samething. Whats the common denominator with that? They all knew what the writing on the wall was. There's a reason Wilson lobbied to get the coach canned that supposedly coddled him as you put it.

Are you serious? I have threads pages long about his play. Isolating his deficiencies in different areas. Third down efficiency, reading coverages, etc.

He played lights out highlight reel football on improvisation.

You're arguing with me and there's literally a team of men who played with him who themselves say he was permitted to fail and that he didn't uphold the standard of performance the rest of the guys did... and got away with it.

Kurt Warner did two extensive videos on his inability to read basic defenses while he was hear and 'cooking'. Somebody in Denver last year did another extensive video on his inability to run standard stuff and his adherence to his own specific set of plays for success. That was before the season started and by a fan.

Warner broke down his play last year again in Denver showing in great detail how he simply makes the wrong reds.

Sean Payton in an interview after their loss Sunday was asked about the non PI call. His response stated that Russ wasn't even supposed to throw the ball there. it was suppose to go to Jeudy who was breaking open.

He perennially since 2017 (stats only tracked back that far) was between 29 and 31st throwing to thr middle of the field.

We were perennially one of the leagues worst at throwing to TEs whike he was here.

And now guess who is at or near the bottom? Denver.

Russ succeeded doing what HE did. But what he couldn't do is virtually invisible if you only watch the game from a purely fan perspective. You can say hebthrew the light out all you want. We were also bad at 3rd down conversions. That necessitates comebacks and close games. We were perennially bad at sustaining offensive drives which necessitates comeback as close games. We were perennially bad at TOP which necessitates comeback and Close games.

What is Russ good at ? Throwing the playbook aside and bombing away / scrambling when he's off script to win close games or games we were behind in.

His plusses outweighed his minuses? You do understand the guy who's inept in Denver is the same guy who played here, right? He just doesn't have a coach creating a playground for him to run round in. What he can't do in Xenver he wasn't doing here either. So I can't say what a qb who could have just lined up and done what he wqs supposed to do would have accomplished. Oh, wait, I do have a sense of it. A perennial backup just came in and broke multiple franchise records just running the plays the OC sent in. In his first year starting in the system.

But go ahead and show me the evidence that the dude is actually competent and reading defenses, beating certain coverages, etc. Etc. Etc. Without just defaulting to stats. Because his stats are a product of his specific style of okay. Not playing In a way that actually makes the most of the players around him.

Just ask Doug, Luke and the rest.

 

[keasley45]

Look at the picture again. Even if he makes the catch, he isnt scoring. Butler is right there. Butler is either intercepting the pass or knocking him on his @ss. It was a horrible play call.

It was one of the most successful play designs of the era and made illegal by the rules committee because of it. The play shoukd have and would have scored if executed better by the QB. The throw shoukd have been earlier or lower on the body where the WRs body can shield the defender and force a PA. Instead, it was high and inside to the point the wr had to leave his feet to catch it.

That's NOT how that play is thrown.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Are you serious? I have threads pages long about his play. Isolating his deficiencies in different areas. Third down efficiency, reading coverages, etc.

He played lights out highlight reel football on improvisation.

You're arguing with me and there's literally a team of men who played with him who themselves say he was permitted to fail and that he didn't uphold the standard of performance the rest of the guys did... and got away with it.

Kurt Warner did two extensive videos on his inability to read basic defenses while he was hear and 'cooking'. Somebody in Denver last year did another extensive video on his inability to run standard stuff and his adherence to his own specific set of plays for success. That was before the season started and by a fan.

Warner broke down his play last year again in Denver showing in great detail how he simply makes the wrong reds.

Sean Payton in an interview after their loss Sunday was asked about the non PI call. His response stated that Russ wasn't even supposed to throw the ball there. it was suppose to go to Jeudy who was breaking open.

He perennially since 2017 (stats only tracked back that far) was between 29 and 31st throwing to thr middle of the field.

We were perennially one of the leagues worst at throwing to TEs whike he was here.

And now guess who is at or near the bottom? Denver.

Russ succeeded doing what HE did. But what he couldn't do is virtually invisible if you only watch the game from a purely fan perspective. You can say hebthrew the light out all you want. We were also bad at 3rd down conversions. That necessitates comebacks and close games. We were perennially bad at sustaining offensive drives which necessitates comeback as close games. We were perennially bad at TOP which necessitates comeback and Close games.

What is Russ good at ? Throwing the playbook aside and bombing away / scrambling when he's off script to win close games or games we were behind in.

His plusses outweighed his minuses? You do understand the guy who's inept in Denver is the same guy who played here, right? He just doesn't have a coach creating a playground for him to run round in. What he can't do in Xenver he wasn't doing here either. So I can't say what a qb who could have just lined up and done what he wqs supposed to do would have accomplished. Oh, wait, I do have a sense of it. A perennial backup just came in and broke multiple franchise records just running the plays the OC sent in. In his first year starting in the system.

But go ahead and show me the evidence that the dude is actually competent and reading defenses, beating certain coverages, etc. Etc. Etc. Without just defaulting to stats. Because his stats are a product of his specific style of okay. Not playing In a way that actually makes the most of the players around him.

Just ask Doug, Luke and the rest.

Lol. You make the teams best QB ever sound like he couldnt start for a high school team. The guy was one of the best QB's in the league for years and won a crap ton of games and yet in your eyes, all you can see are flaws. Was he a conventional QB? Nope. Was he a winner. Yep. Whats so wrong with that?

Umm no, the Russell Wilson that played for Seattle is not the same Russell Wilson that plays in Denver and you cant seem to understand that. You need to try.

Lolol. So stats arent going to fly with you huh? Just disregard those right? Here's something for you, what Russell Wilson accomplished in Seattle, not many other QB's in the league could replicate. If you think or dream a game managing QB would have had the same success, I dont know what to tell you. Geno is a game manager. Enjoy all the 7 to 9 win seasons coming up.

 

[strohmin]

I heard somewhere (can’t recall where—might have been a podcast) that Pete took responsibility in the locker room after the game by saying it was on him.

Really? Every interview from players I heard was him giving just a half ass excuse. Not one player still understands what the hell went on in that huddle. I really wish I could have been apart of that locker room to see what really went on.

 

[strohmin]

It was one of the most successful play designs of the era and made illegal by the rules committee because of it. The play shoukd have and would have scored if executed better by the QB. The throw shoukd have been earlier or lower on the body where the WRs body can shield the defender and force a PA. Instead, it was high and inside to the point the wr had to leave his feet to catch it.

That's NOT how that play is thrown.

Yer no one blames Russ as usual. Its really odd how he gets away with not executing basic qb things.

 

[pittpnthrs]

It was one of the most successful play designs of the era and made illegal by the rules committee because of it. The play shoukd have and would have scored if executed better by the QB. The throw shoukd have been earlier or lower on the body where the WRs body can shield the defender and force a PA. Instead, it was high and inside to the point the wr had to leave his feet to catch it.

That's NOT how that play is thrown.

Good lord. The entire play was a disaster before the huddle even broke. Browner knew the play and told Butler to be ready. Kearse had the job of picking Browner who is twice his size and got blown up. Lockette made a lazy break on the play and didnt fight for the ball at all, plus he's the teams worst receiver. The Oline got blown up on the play. It was a play in which your short QB is asked to throw in a congested area near the goal line. The Oline gets blown up and Lockette runs a lazy pattern and you blame Wilson for throwing the pass late. Classic.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

It was a great play, but some credit is lost because they knew what the play was before the ball was ever snapped. Browner saw it every day in practice just a year prior. Add the fact that Seattle had the worst possible personnel on the field to execute the play and it loses some bonus points overall.

That's the only opinion I have of it today. I have no idea what the coaching staff was thinking when Browner (who played with the Hawks for multiple years prior to that one) was there in the Patriots defense that year and was on the field at that moment and they STILL chose to use that play. How cocky/arrogant/stupid are you to risk a potential Superbowl victory with that play that Browner had experience seeing/covering? Why would you do such a thing?

 

[rcaido]

Yet John & Pete re-signed Wilson 3 times. Not sure why you have narrative that Wilson was not good here. LOB/Lynch left less then half of his career and they still kept winning. To say Wilson was the only player to want to further his pocket/career is very laughable. All the players did it. You got two guys trying to promote their broadcast and ADB who is mad at everyone. I dont recall Bennett, Mebane, Tate, Red, Kearse, or Avril talk crap about Wilson in terms of play. Even Lynch himself said “I played with Russ, and that little (expletive) is good, do you know what I'm saying? I watched [him] come through and make plays make throws, and I watched him make sacrifices. Yeah, I'm hot because we didn't win the second Super Bowl, but at the end of the day, I really watched his sacrifice.”

As for Luke Willson, who knows where his head was at the final year. He was already contemplating in retiring. The team previously was 12-4 and won the conference, its possible he was done with football. He also thought he was going to die. They also cut him previously.