Sam

[CouchLogic]

 

[glenwo2]

Let me guess, Soul :


Go Hawks?

 

[sutz]

C'mon guys. We can make 20 pages!

 

[Ad Hawk]

I'm hoping for 30; the season's not over yet.

The draft could shake things up.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Let me guess, Soul :


Go Hawks?

Sure

This topic is tiresome.

 

[bileever]

Since when did someone have to be perfect before you could root for him? I feel that our emotions about players and teams have gone off the tracks. It's fine to be disappointed when your team loses, but those feelings of hatred and disgust is going too far.

 

[keasley45]

Since when did someone have to be perfect before you could root for him? I feel that our emotions about players and teams have gone off the tracks. It's fine to be disappointed when your team loses, but those feelings of hatred and disgust is going too far.

Agree 100%

When Zorn was QB, I pulled for him and thought that on any given Sunday, he could be magic. He was the team's QB, it's leader, and I wanted him to succeed. Zorn was also flawed.

When Kreig took over, I told everybody I could that in any year, he could be a top 5 QB. When he was hot there were only a handful better. When he struggled, he lost games for us - on his own. But I pulled hard for the dude, loved what he did well, cringed at his TOs and tendency to look like he was clueless every now and again.

The next bunch... McGuire, Stouffer, Kemp, Friez... None were ever good long enough to think they good make it for us and all cale at a dark time for the franchise. But as bad as they were, I never hated them.

Kitna - one of my all time favorite Hawks QB for his fight and grit. He was so lacking in almost every key QB metric but he just went out and played hard and won the games he could.

Moon- I was ecstatic when he took over. He ran the offense like a HOFer and although he was definitely on the decline by the time he got here, for the first time in forever, I felt as though if we put a team around him, we could be great. And then he was gone. He was the first QB we ever had who I thought was good enough all around for us to be a contender.

Hasselbeck - streaky. Master of Holmgren's offense. As hot as anyone when the O was clicking. But damn could he make the untimely mistake. And when the offense was off time, so was he. I loved Hass's game, but the dude was never on his own, a game changer. Rooted for him anyway.

Russ - the dude was magic and had a rabbits foot stuck up his ass for the first 5 or 6 years here. THE PLAYS AND HIGHLIGHTS he made are second to none. His ability to win a game on his own, off script, just making stuff up... Amazing. But like the others, he was flawed. Let him play his way, all was good. Need him to play in a way that allowed for balance and schemability... Not so much. I loved what he did when he was great and the league had figured him out. I tired of his play after that and saw him as a liability as much as a piece to build a team around. But again, like the others, he was our QB.

Geno - ultra talented and it's a shame he didn't land in a spot where he could have started before he ended up calling the shots for us. Incredibly underrated. And also maddeningly self destructive. He could make every throw, anywhere on the field and thread the needle. He could also just randomly toss one up to the opposition when he lost his discipline... Or inexplicably scramble out of bounds for a 12 yard loss in a critical moment. But for the first time in a dozen years, we had a QB who could run the offense and who had the XS and OS accumin to do whatever was asked of him. He just didn't have the leadership or maturity of judgement that a QB needs to be elite. Still appreciated everything he did for us when he was here because for almost 3 years, he was the only thing in this team that consistently worked.

sam - he can do most of what every one of his oredecessors could in terms of being able to escape when he has to, diagnosing defenses, making every throw, and hitting the big play. His accuracy, timing, and arm strength all flirt with the elite category. AND he has an uncanny ability to brain fart and forget everything he has learned in the most inopportune moments. But by all accounts the players respect him and believe in his ability to shake if mistakes and keep fighting. That means a lot. And on this team, the combination of his strengths, his flaws and the team he plays for could combine to create a transcendent moment for him and the franchise. Or. He could implode and everything we could have had this season ... Lost. But he is our QB, and I hope to hell his fate is the former and not the latter.

In all the years I have watched this team I have done so as a fan of the team, of the sport, and of the strategies that go into building winning teams and resilient cultures. I always rooted hard and literally cried the first time we made the SB, sobbed when we won in our 2nd appearance - and I won't talk about our 3rd trip, but cried tears of joy 2 weeks prior when we came back to beat the Pack in the NFCCG. Regardless of how I ever felt about any of our QBs capabilities, I never rooted against them. I was never happy when they failed. I never saw the need to drag any of them down based on their character or who they were off the field. I was disappointed with all that came out about Russ and his 'charity work' as well as his he departed. I felt it was anti-team. But when he was here, my honesty in assessing his play (or any of the others that came before him or have played here since) was just honest criticism.

None of the guys who have ever suited up at QB in the history of this franchise has had it all. Maybe Moon would have been the closest in his prime, but we got him well after that. None were above honest and obvious criticism. But never had honest and objective debate been so twisted and taken as offense - as if criticism is slandering the person and discarding the good aspects of their game - anti player, anti Seahawk.

I guess it's a symptom of society overall because you feel and hear the same kind of division everywhere. We have become to quick to draw lines and have forgotten about the value of the word AND... that two things CAN and often Do exist at once. In football terms, that a player can be great and flawed at the same time.

 

[NoGain]

So what I take from this thread is that Sam is good enough to win a divisional round playoff game, but not quite good enough to win a conference championship or Super Bowl. Do I have that right?

 

[keasley45]

So what I take from this thread is that Sam is good enough to win a divisional round playoff game, but not quite good enough to win a conference championship or Super Bowl. Do I have that right?

Sam is good enough to win the SB.

And Sam can play bad enough to put us in jeopardy of losing out before that.

Sam give me vibes of 1983. He is like Dave Krieg in many ways. . That year, after we upset the Dolphins, I thought for sure we would keep it going against the Raiders in the AFC CG. The QB and team that showed up the following week looked nothing like the one that had claimed the Cinderella title the week before. There was blame to go all around, but Krieg just looked lost.

Sam has the potential to do the same thing. That's just a fact.

There is no question that his ceiling is incredibly high. The problem is the potential for his floor to fall out.

 

[Ozzy]

Sam is good enough to win the SB.

And Sam can play bad enough to put us in jeopardy of losing out before that

That's fair but couldnt you say that about almost everyone outside of a couple of guys? I think Darnold isn't in the Allen, Mahomes category obviously but he's in the next group of guys. He outplayed Stafford in the 4th quarter and OT to win against the Rams in a massive game. He did what he needed to on the road against a hot Niners team as well in a massive game. Hopefully he can keep that up.

 

[Chapow]

So what I take from this thread is that Sam is good enough to win a divisional round playoff game, but not quite good enough to win a conference championship or Super Bowl. Do I have that right?

I don't think "is Sam good enough to win a Super Bowl?" is the right question, or even a particularly relevant question, because the answer is, it depends on the rest of the team around him.

I think the right question is "is Sam good enough to win a Super Bowl on this team?". I think the answer to that question is, yes, he absolutely is.

 

[Chapow]

Agree 100%

When Zorn was QB, I pulled for him and thought that on any given Sunday, he could be magic. He was the team's QB, it's leader, and I wanted him to succeed. Zorn was also flawed.

When Kreig took over, I told everybody I could that in any year, he could be a top 5 QB. When he was hot there were only a handful better. When he struggled, he lost games for us - on his own. But I pulled hard for the dude, loved what he did well, cringed at his TOs and tendency to look like he was clueless every now and again.

The next bunch... McGuire, Stouffer, Kemp, Friez... None were ever good long enough to think they good make it for us and all cale at a dark time for the franchise. But as bad as they were, I never hated them.

Kitna - one of my all time favorite Hawks QB for his fight and grit. He was so lacking in almost every key QB metric but he just went out and played hard and won the games he could.

Moon- I was ecstatic when he took over. He ran the offense like a HOFer and although he was definitely on the decline by the time he got here, for the first time in forever, I felt as though if we put a team around him, we could be great. And then he was gone. He was the first QB we ever had who I thought was good enough all around for us to be a contender.

Hasselbeck - streaky. Master of Holmgren's offense. As hot as anyone when the O was clicking. But damn could he make the untimely mistake. And when the offense was off time, so was he. I loved Hass's game, but the dude was never on his own, a game changer. Rooted for him anyway.

Russ - the dude was magic and had a rabbits foot stuck up his ass for the first 5 or 6 years here. THE PLAYS AND HIGHLIGHTS he made are second to none. His ability to win a game on his own, off script, just making stuff up... Amazing. But like the others, he was flawed. Let him play his way, all was good. Need him to play in a way that allowed for balance and schemability... Not so much. I loved what he did when he was great and the league had figured him out. I tired of his play after that and saw him as a liability as much as a piece to build a team around. But again, like the others, he was our QB.

Geno - ultra talented and it's a shame he didn't land in a spot where he could have started before he ended up calling the shots for us. Incredibly underrated. And also maddeningly self destructive. He could make every throw, anywhere on the field and thread the needle. He could also just randomly toss one up to the opposition when he lost his discipline... Or inexplicably scramble out of bounds for a 12 yard loss in a critical moment. But for the first time in a dozen years, we had a QB who could run the offense and who had the XS and OS accumin to do whatever was asked of him. He just didn't have the leadership or maturity of judgement that a QB needs to be elite. Still appreciated everything he did for us when he was here because for almost 3 years, he was the only thing in this team that consistently worked.

sam - he can do most of what every one of his oredecessors could in terms of being able to escape when he has to, diagnosing defenses, making every throw, and hitting the big play. His accuracy, timing, and arm strength all flirt with the elite category. AND he has an uncanny ability to brain fart and forget everything he has learned in the most inopportune moments. But by all accounts the players respect him and believe in his ability to shake if mistakes and keep fighting. That means a lot. And on this team, the combination of his strengths, his flaws and the team he plays for could combine to create a transcendent moment for him and the franchise. Or. He could implode and everything we could have had this season ... Lost. But he is our QB, and I hope to hell his fate is the former and not the latter.

In all the years I have watched this team I have done so as a fan of the team, of the sport, and of the strategies that go into building winning teams and resilient cultures. I always rooted hard and literally cried the first time we made the SB, sobbed when we won in our 2nd appearance - and I won't talk about our 3rd trip, but cried tears of joy 2 weeks prior when we came back to beat the Pack in the NFCCG. Regardless of how I ever felt about any of our QBs capabilities, I never rooted against them. I was never happy when they failed. I never saw the need to drag any of them down based on their character or who they were off the field. I was disappointed with all that came out about Russ and his 'charity work' as well as his he departed. I felt it was anti-team. But when he was here, my honesty in assessing his play (or any of the others that came before him or have played here since) was just honest criticism.

None of the guys who have ever suited up at QB in the history of this franchise has had it all. Maybe Moon would have been the closest in his prime, but we got him well after that. None were above honest and obvious criticism. But never had honest and objective debate been so twisted and taken as offense - as if criticism is slandering the person and discarding the good aspects of their game - anti player, anti Seahawk.

I guess it's a symptom of society overall because you feel and hear the same kind of division everywhere. We have become to quick to draw lines and have forgotten about the value of the word AND... that two things CAN and often Do exist at once. In football terms, that a player can be great and flawed at the same time.

I'm very disappointed in you. How could you forget about this Seahawks legend and absolute beefcake of a man?

 

[soxhawk]

Yeah Sam can't carry a team to a super bowl alone but neither can Allen or mahomes.

 

[NoGain]

I was actually just kidding around. We were so close to 20 pages. LOL

 

[soxhawk]

I'm very disappointed in you. How could you forget about this Seahawks legend and absolute beefcake of a man?

View attachment 77279

Can someone remake that to have Sam and Drew instead?

 

[keasley45]

That's fair but couldnt you say that about almost everyone outside of a couple of guys? I think Darnold isn't in the Allen, Mahomes category obviously but he's in the next group of guys. He outplayed Stafford in the 4th quarter and OT to win against the Rams in a massive game. He did what he needed to on the road against a hot Niners team as well in a massive game. Hopefully he can keep that up.

Not really to the same degree as Sam. No.

You could insert a handful of the remaining QBs as our QB that wouldn't bring with them the narrative that our only question mark in winning the whole thing might be them.

Stafford - we are a lock
Purdy - he wouldn't be the reason we lost if we didn't make it. He is solid and can play with the best of them when given time. He doesn't single handedly lose games.
Williams? Sure. But he also hasn't shown the tendency to just implode this year.
Love? Again, maybe not elite, but how many times has he just completely let the team down and been the reason they lost?
Hurts? Solid. If not spectacular, and has the ability to turn a game with his legs.
Bryce Young - huge question mark but his flaw is consistently not having the skill to be good enough more than it is him just falling apart suddenly in a big moment.

In the AFC Nix and Lawrence are the biggest risk to their teams IMO. Nix for his low ceiling as a passer (though he has that knack to just be able to win regardless) and Lawrence because he can lose accuracy at any given moment. Not to the degree he tossed INTs like Sam, but certainly to the point he stalls drives.

Allen? Superstar. Streaky at times but usually because the overall team is lacking.
Herbert? Superstar and has no record of imploding and causing his team to lose.
Houstons dude is also solid and a bonafide qbotf. Also not apt to lose a game for his team on his own. His issue is being good consistently.
Rodgers is Rodgers.
Maye? Any young player has the potential to royally screw up in a big moment, but Maye is garnering MVP talk and has shown an uncanny steadiness at the position.

So no, I don't think, outside of Lawrence and Nix, Young and Williams, that just any of the other QBs have the track record that would give one reason to believe they would be the obstacle to ultimate success.

It just is what it is. I haven't heard one single analysis of the playoffs and our team specifically that hasn't said that THE question mark as to whether we can win it all is Darnold. That's not hate speak or dislike - although he does have some haters out there in the media that won't give him credit for anything.

Sam has had 2 good season in his career. The rest have been as bad or worse than the resume Geno waltzed in here with and many of the same folks who said Geno would never get it done are all over the Sam bandwagon and get all worked up when anyone justifiably speaks negatively about him.

Sure, he played really well on a pretty good team last year and helped them win a lot of games. And then, he proceeded to toss it all away when his last 2 opponents figure out how to beat him.

This year, he has also won a lot of games and he has also been on arguably the best all-around team in the league. He played very very well through 10 week. Since then, like the last two games he played last year, teams have figured out how to stop him. Through the last 8 weeks, he has thrown as many TDs as INTs and has captained an offense that disappears for large stretches of games OR can't finish drives in the EndZone. And the reason why those drives aren't extended or we don't score is too often squarely on his shoulders. That is a trait fairly unique to a QB on a team as good as ours. That's why his ability and our fate is questioned.

Nix, Lawrence, Young, Williams. Those are the guys that I think would give as much pause as Darnold if they were on our team. The rest? We would be seen more as a lock.

 

[keasley45]

I'm very disappointed in you. How could you forget about this Seahawks legend and absolute beefcake of a man?

View attachment 77279

Hahaha... Dilfer. Of all of us, I should remember him because he was the QB of my hometown Ravens when they won it all.

He did have me pretty fired up for a bit though when Holmgren got a hold of him and had him looking like Joe Montana for a few games.

That poster is a classic. Has milli vanilla vibes... Or better yet that 90s one hit group, Extreme .

 

[sutz]

Can I remind everybody that Tom Brady LOST 3 Super Bowls. Maybe not his fault directly, but he wasn't perfect.

 

[keasley45]

Can I remind everybody that Tom Brady LOST 3 Super Bowls. Maybe not his fault directly, but he wasn't perfect.

Seriously?

 

[Ozzy]

Not really to the same degree as Sam. No.

You could insert a handful of the remaining QBs as our QB that wouldn't bring with them the narrative that our only question mark in winning the whole thing might be them.

Stafford - we are a lock
Purdy - he wouldn't be the reason we lost if we didn't make it. He is solid and can play with the best of them when given time. He doesn't single handedly lose games.
Williams? Sure. But he also hasn't shown the tendency to just implode this year.
Love? Again, maybe not elite, but how many times has he just completely let the team down and been the reason they lost?
Hurts? Solid. If not spectacular, and has the ability to turn a game with his legs.
Bryce Young - huge question mark but his flaw is consistently not having the skill to be good enough more than it is him just falling apart suddenly in a big moment.

In the AFC Nix and Lawrence are the biggest risk to their teams IMO. Nix for his low ceiling as a passer (though he has that knack to just be able to win regardless) and Lawrence because he can lose accuracy at any given moment. Not to the degree he tossed INTs like Sam, but certainly to the point he stalls drives.

Allen? Superstar. Streaky at times but usually because the overall team is lacking.
Herbert? Superstar and has no record of imploding and causing his team to lose.
Houstons dude is also solid and a bonafide qbotf. Also not apt to lose a game for his team on his own. His issue is being good consistently.
Rodgers is Rodgers.
Maye? Any young player has the potential to royally screw up in a big moment, but Maye is garnering MVP talk and has shown an uncanny steadiness at the position.

So no, I don't think, outside of Lawrence and Nix, Young and Williams, that just any of the other QBs have the track record that would give one reason to believe they would be the obstacle to ultimate success.

It just is what it is. I haven't heard one single analysis of the playoffs and our team specifically that hasn't said that THE question mark as to whether we can win it all is Darnold. That's not hate speak or dislike - although he does have some haters out there in the media that won't give him credit for anything.

Sam has had 2 good season in his career. The rest have been as bad or worse than the resume Geno waltzed in here with and many of the same folks who said Geno would never get it done are all over the Sam bandwagon and get all worked up when anyone justifiably speaks negatively about him.

Sure, he played really well on a pretty good team last year and helped them win a lot of games. And then, he proceeded to toss it all away when his last 2 opponents figure out how to beat him.

This year, he has also won a lot of games and he has also been on arguably the best all-around team in the league. He played very very well through 10 week. Since then, like the last two games he played last year, teams have figured out how to stop him. Through the last 8 weeks, he has thrown as many TDs as INTs and has captained an offense that disappears for large stretches of games OR can't finish drives in the EndZone. And the reason why those drives aren't extended or we don't score is too often squarely on his shoulders. That is a trait fairly unique to a QB on a team as good as ours. That's why his ability and our fate is questioned.

Nix, Lawrence, Young, Williams. Those are the guys that I think would give as much pause as Darnold if they were on our team. The rest? We would be seen more as a lock

The guys you you list as massive upgrades over Darnold haven't proven anything either though. Darnold has made massive plays in key moments every time this year he's needed to and there are a bunch of them. Herbert, Love, Stroud, Maye haven't proven anything yet in the playoffs just like Darnold. The only guys in the playoffs I think are automatically better than Darnold are Allen and......well that might be it. I do like Purdy a lot but he completely fell apart against Seattle right? I think Herbert has a bright future but he did fall apart in the playoffs I think in his only appearance(I could be wrong) and even if not he hasn't won anything. Stroud is inconsistent. Rogers is an all timer for sure.
Maye has one win against a .500 team or something crazy like that. How can you trust Maye and not Darnold who has beaten 6 playoff teams this year? that makes zero sense. Hurts has played well in the playoffs but has been a mess this year for large stretches.