Sam

[keasley45]

The question isn't whether there have been really good / great QBs who have had bad games during their career. The question is whether a QB who in 8 seasons has had 2 that have been good, can definitively elevate his game to a place where you can watch him play game in and game out, year in and year out and with confidence, say that he is a player who will come up big in the biggest moments and not create disaster from nothing.

Knowing that your QB is the guy that when opponents ganeplan against your offense say that HE is the piece they can exploit isn't the hallmark of a great player who has occasional bad games.

Nor is the QB who the OC and HC have to ganeplan around to limit his errors.

Great QBs who have bad games require the opposition to scheme specifically for them. Opposing defenses HAVE to account for whatever that guy might do to beat them.

With Sam, until he shows otherwise, defenses know how to stop him, our HC and OC know defenses can confuse him and force him into TOs, and our offense is constrained as a result.

If Sam was a great QB now, the gameplan would be placing more responsibility in his hands. Since his game has been figured out, Kubiak has been calling games that limit Sam's potential to make a major error... until he HAS to let him just play. You don't think Kubiak and MM aren't looking at the tape of situations like the miss to Charbs against the 9ers and saying 'wtf'?

Of course they are.

Sam has the potential to be a really good, franchise QB. By his own hands, he has shown he is not there yet.

 

[IndyHawk]

The question isn't whether there have been really good / great QBs who have had bad games during their career. The question is whether a QB who in 8 seasons has had 2 that have been good, can definitively elevate his game to a place where you can watch him play game in and game out, year in and year out and with confidence, say that he is a player who will come up big in the biggest moments and not create disaster from nothing.

Knowing that your QB is the guy that when opponents ganeplan against your offense say that HE is the piece they can exploit isn't the hallmark of a great player who has occasional bad games.

Nor is the QB who the OC and HC have to ganeplan around to limit his errors.

Great QBs who have bad games require the opposition to scheme specifically for them. Opposing defenses HAVE to account for whatever that guy might do to beat them.

With Sam, until he shows otherwise, defenses know how to stop him, our HC and OC know defenses can confuse him and force him into TOs, and our offense is constrained as a result.

If Sam was a great QB now, the gameplan would be placing more responsibility in his hands. Since his game has been figured out, Kubiak has been calling games that limit Sam's potential to make a major error... until he HAS to let him just play. You don't think Kubiak and MM aren't looking at the tape of situations like the miss to Charbs against the 9ers and saying 'wtf'?

Of course they are.

Sam has the potential to be a really good, franchise QB. By his own hands, he has shown he is not there yet.

All we need at QB is a game manager like Sam has been doing lately, the defense
takes care of the rest.
I don't care about a flashy QB with wow stats.. Hand the ball off and make a few key
throws without killer TOs.

 

[SmokinHawk]

All we need at QB is a game manager like Sam has been doing lately, the defense
takes care of the rest.
I don't care about a flashy QB with wow stats.. Hand the ball off and make a few key
throws without killer TOs.

It's a time-honored formula. Run the ball, pass off play-action, crush them with defense.

 

[keasley45]

21 pages. Do I hear 22?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

No, they didn't at all. NO way the Niners were coming back. FFS.
My god. 14-3 and you act like they're the Raiders. Is it EVER a good thing to be 14-3, Division Champs and a 1 seed? Niners had 9 first downs. Hawks missed 2 field goals. That game was never in doubt.

 

[hox]

Montana was accused of having a noodle arm too. No, I am not comparing Purdy to Montana, but you don't have to have a cannon to win.

And there isn't a particular style of defense that will beat him. It's not like he can't throw the ball deep and even if he couldn't, he is pretty damn good at hitting the intermediate and short routes. Shanahan's offense isn't ABC and 123. Purdy is a smart QB.
Sam can make all the throws and also make them to the other team. I don't know why this is debatable, outside of the desire to elevate your dude because he is playing in your team

MM just showed how you beat him. You take away the short routes and intermediate over the middle because he's not going to threaten deep. Not every D can do this though.

And it's debatable because Purdy has a higher INT rate than Sam this season. Yet Purdy (and Herbert) gets a pass, while every bad Sam play is nitpicked.

 

[Torc]

The question isn't whether there have been really good / great QBs who have had bad games during their career. The question is whether a QB who in 8 seasons has had 2 that have been good, can definitively elevate his game to a place where you can watch him play game in and game out, year in and year out and with confidence, say that he is a player who will come up big in the biggest moments and not create disaster from nothing.

Knowing that your QB is the guy that when opponents ganeplan against your offense say that HE is the piece they can exploit isn't the hallmark of a great player who has occasional bad games.

Nor is the QB who the OC and HC have to ganeplan around to limit his errors.

Great QBs who have bad games require the opposition to scheme specifically for them. Opposing defenses HAVE to account for whatever that guy might do to beat them.

With Sam, until he shows otherwise, defenses know how to stop him, our HC and OC know defenses can confuse him and force him into TOs, and our offense is constrained as a result.

If Sam was a great QB now, the gameplan would be placing more responsibility in his hands. Since his game has been figured out, Kubiak has been calling games that limit Sam's potential to make a major error... until he HAS to let him just play. You don't think Kubiak and MM aren't looking at the tape of situations like the miss to Charbs against the 9ers and saying 'wtf'?

Of course they are.

Sam has the potential to be a really good, franchise QB. By his own hands, he has shown he is not there yet.

That's the thing. opponents HAVE been game planning to stop Darnold.

38 points in the first half against the Saints.
38 in the first half against the Cardinals.
31 in the second half against the Falcons
4 passing TDs against the Bucs.
Eight games scoring over 30 points this season.
The league's leading receiver by yardage - who has been throwing to him?

All the while, being one of the teams leaning heavily on the run even though we had a low YPC and it really wasn't working well. Why?

The end result is that teams are game planning to stop our passing game (ie, Darnold) and it is opening up the run.

Macdonald doesn't WANT Darnold throwing for 400 yards a game and scoring 30+ points every week. He wants what he got against the Whiners. Oh, he wants the drives to finish with scores, obviously. But he wants to ram the ball down their throats and have a QB who can punish opponents if they start to load up the box to stop the run. He wants a 38 minute time of possession, with his defense only on the field for 42 plays.

He also wants a QB who can get the ball in his hands, down by 2 points, with 40 seconds and no timeouts, and move the ball into field goal range. A QB who can crank it up at the end of a game and lead game winning drives vs the Cards, Rams and Colts.

Mission accomplished. Macdonald has exactly the QB he wants....

 

[glenwo2]

Wow. The force is strong with you. Lol.

All good brother.

And the skepticism is strong with you as well.



Cheers regardless.

And Go Hawks!

 

[glenwo2]

That's why I'm uncomfortable here even if he wins next week. It's why I'll even be a little anxious even if he wins a Super Bowl, though believe me, I'll still be stoked and whooping and giving Darnold his full due, the rarefied air of Guys Who Have Gone All the Way. Can we really get a dynasty out of the guy? What happens next? Who are we passing up in the draft while we wait for him to repeat, or worse, while he wait for him just to get us a ring?

'WTF"-comment bolded aside, I couldn't give two shits about Dynasties.

Just give me one f--king SuperBowl win and I'm good, dawg.

 

[glenwo2]

It's a time-honored formula. Run the ball, pass off play-action, crush them with defense.

 

[keasley45]

Yeah I think someone is a little biased when it comes to Geno, Darnold etc and excuses Geno were given are not given to Sam at all. Which again everyone is free to view players how they want, its what makes sports fun it just feels like Darnold isnt given the same leeway every other player is and its not a consistent approach when applied.

Either way go Seahawks

There isn't a bias on my part. Tell me why I would 'root' for one over the other.
Bud, everyone in the league sees the issue with Darnold. Literally everyone. When you have to qualify his success by saying that he plays on a team that can limit his propensity for mistakes, that should tell you something. And no. It's not something that is said about every QB. On the flip. Even outside of Seattle, when folks assessed our offense. Nobody ever said Geno was the liability. Geno was literally the only thing that worked.

What's happening is that peoples personal dislike for one player and adoration for another are affecting their perspectives. Geno had to endure the wrath of the Russ fans who wouldn't accept at any cost the idea that a former washup could replace their favorite player and Seahawk savior so quickly. That same wrath was pointed at anyone who dare say the problem with the team from 2018 on was more Russ than anything else for his inability to run a consistent offense and beat basic 2 high looks. - sound familiar?

Ozzy - even you admitted to carrying over a bit of bias in the situation because of how much you liked Russ.

You wanna talk about unequal judgement...

THE supposed sticking point with Geno for the GeNOs was his tendency to turn the ball over. In comes Sam and and proceeds to not only basically equal Genos highest INT total, but he adds 6 fumbles to boot. And there is ZERO talk about it being unacceptable and that (as with Geno) he won't get us anywhere. And Sam does with one of the best all around supporting casts in the league.

THE ONLY reason are record hasn't imploded in the face of the most TO prone qb in the league is because his coaches, his D and his running game protect him.

Geno had no such scheme protection from the OC. No such D to lean on. And was in fact thrown to the wolves in an offense that was (outside of what he made of it) a joke. A joke to the degree his OC (s) was fired.

As to his INTs, guys like daniel Jeremiah pointed out pretty clearly that they had to be taken with a grain of salt for how inept the offense was and how many of them weren't a result of poor reads, but inopportune bounces. That's not my take, that's DJ. The same guy has come out and while praising Sam has taken quite a different take on the INTs calling them consistently bad decisions and play.

The OC before him... GeNos claimed JSNs complete diss of Waldron when asked after he was let go, what he did well, was excused as a 'nervous response'. It's was exactly what it actually was intended to be - an indictment of the dude's ability. By one of the best WRs in the game -a player who should know whether his coaches are good or not.

I don't have a horse in the race when it comes to who our QB is. I am not going to root more or less because of how he acts, what he looks like, or how he carries himself in his personal life.

I will judge them regardless on their play and the context in which they play the position. It's literally comical the way all the blatantly poor aspects of the team that Geno played on were dismissed as if they didn't matter. 32 ranked O line? Doesn't matter. He needs to win a playoff game. 29the ranked run game? Doesn't matter. He can't get it done when it matters. 29th ranked defense? Blah blah blah .. excuses. OC incompetence? Says who? Keasley? (Actually. No. None of the ocs that were here when Geno played are even employed either in the league or in that capacity. No matter. He should have done better.

Now Sam is throwing darts to other teams on the regular on just blatantly poor plays and the same guys who gave Geno grief try to shuck blame to Kubiak, they have made Bradford their personal whipping boy and Sam's get out of jail free card and all of a sudden want to acknowledge the importance of the rest of the team performing well.

You're right. There is a double standard. Just not in the direction you claim.

And for the 200th time, I am pulling for Sam to the same degree I pulled for every other QB who has suited up for the team. I'm just not going to let personal feelings about him cloud my judgement about him.

There is a reason why he is seen as out of team's achilles heal. Hopefully he proves he isn't the piece that can ultimately be our undoing.

 

[keasley45]

View attachment 77291

'WTF"-comment bolded aside, I couldn't give two shits about Dynasties.

Just give me one f--king SuperBowl win and I'm good, dawg.

Ah. So now we are ok with winning one, say because our defense and the rest of the team bailed out the QB, and foregoing our chances to do so again, despite the rest of the team being capable, because the QB need to constantly be schemed for and saved from himself in future years?

You do understand how hard it is to keep a top flight team together over multiple years. Right? Our D, special teams and running game won't always be there to make the plays that win us games because the QB is hurting us. It would be a shame to fall short of what this team could be because of our QBs mistake prone nature, whether this year or in future years.

It would be the definition of a waste.

 

[keasley45]

MM just showed how you beat him. You take away the short routes and intermediate over the middle because he's not going to threaten deep. Not every D can do this though.

And it's debatable because Purdy has a higher INT rate than Sam this season. Yet Purdy (and Herbert) gets a pass, while every bad Sam play is nitpicked.

An onslaught od pressure and an all world defense isnt a formula. Its a gift.

 

[sutz]

Keasley45, the king of the TL/DR post.

 

[hox]

An onslaught od pressure and an all world defense isnt a formula. Its a gift.

Well we'll see what Fangio does on Sunday. If he's not studying MM's game tape, then he's doing it wrong.

Purdy is like Russ in a way. Take away Russ' deep shots with 2-high safety, and you limit Russ since he didn't throw over the middle. Take away Purdy's intermediate middle and he won't beat you deep. In fact, he missed a wide-open Sky Moore deep on the left sideline that would have been a TD. But no one noticed.

 

[Biscanebay12]

I love how biscayne responds with a laugh emoji on this.

I guess actual facts are "funny" to him.

I laughed because its a ridiculous response. We don't have to share the same opinion, its okay the world isn't going to end if we don't agree.

 

[glenwo2]

Ah. So now we are ok with winning one, say because our defense and the rest of the team bailed out the QB, and foregoing our chances to do so again, despite the rest of the team being capable, because the QB need to constantly be schemed for and saved from himself in future years?

You do understand how hard it is to keep a top flight team together over multiple years. Right? Our D, special teams and running game won't always be there to make the plays that win us games because the QB is hurting us. It would be a shame to fall short of what this team could be because of our QBs mistake prone nature, whether this year or in future years.

It would be the definition of a waste.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Ah. So now we are ok with winning one, say because our defense and the rest of the team bailed out the QB, and foregoing our chances to do so again, despite the rest of the team being capable, because the QB need to constantly be schemed for and saved from himself in future years?

You do understand how hard it is to keep a top flight team together over multiple years. Right? Our D, special teams and running game won't always be there to make the plays that win us games because the QB is hurting us. It would be a shame to fall short of what this team could be because of our QBs mistake prone nature, whether this year or in future years.

It would be the definition of a waste.

Damn dude. You're complaining about stuff that hasn't happened. You do realize we haven't actually lost yet, right????

 

[ccla]

Damn dude. You're complaining about stuff that hasn't happened. You do realize we haven't actually lost yet, right????

I am thinking he is talking about the past.

 

[keasley45]

Damn dude. You're complaining about stuff that hasn't happened. You do realize we haven't actually lost yet, right????

I was responding to another post talking about future years. Pretty easy to see its a reply.