POLL: Geno Is Our Franchise QB

[CallMeADawg]

This keeps on getting brought up sans context or acknowledgement that the plays we were running under Waldron were so obvious, most any armchair qb knew what was coming.

When there is little actual in game adjustment happening, the OC goes back to the well too often and fails to do basic things like integrate the run to the degree it at least gives a defense something to defend, DBs who have done any degree of film study know whats coming.

I dont know how many times i sat their white knuckled on a 3rd and 7 or 8, knowing Geno was going to throw the curl route to Tyler on the right hash, just beyond the sticks, because if i knew it, the D did too. And as games went on and one season transitioned to the next, DBs got closer and closer and closer. And the adjustment made? None really, as i think it just became a choice route for Tyler to curl in or run a soft out. Quite a few of those routes were the ones Geno gets dinged on for almost throwing an INT. In reality, it was Geno threading a needle that was getting narrower and narrower... and narrower.

The seam routes under Waldron that were also often 'close calls' were crap routes, especially when they went JSNs way early last year.

That doesnt absolve Geno from his tendency to force balls to DK that force him to become the DB, but i guarantee you that if you account for the ineptitude of Waldron and the fact that our gameplans were 'open book', Geno doesnt lead the league in 'almost INTs'.

IIRC, KJ Wright mentioned on his podcast that even he knew what the plays were watching from his couch. That's how bad Waldron was.

 

[pittpnthrs]

This keeps on getting brought up sans context or acknowledgement that the plays we were running under Waldron were so obvious, most any armchair qb knew what was coming.

When there is little actual in game adjustment happening, the OC goes back to the well too often and fails to do basic things like integrate the run to the degree it at least gives a defense something to defend, DBs who have done any degree of film study know whats coming.

I dont know how many times i sat their white knuckled on a 3rd and 7 or 8, knowing Geno was going to throw the curl route to Tyler on the right hash, just beyond the sticks, because if i knew it, the D did too. And as games went on and one season transitioned to the next, DBs got closer and closer and closer. And the adjustment made? None really, as i think it just became a choice route for Tyler to curl in or run a soft out. Quite a few of those routes were the ones Geno gets dinged on for almost throwing an INT. In reality, it was Geno threading a needle that was getting narrower and narrower... and narrower.

The seam routes under Waldron that were also often 'close calls' were crap routes, especially when they went JSNs way early last year.

That doesnt absolve Geno from his tendency to force balls to DK that force him to become the DB, but i guarantee you that if you account for the ineptitude of Waldron and the fact that our gameplans were 'open book', Geno doesnt lead the league in 'almost INTs'.

Not arguing with you about any of that. Was just making an example of how stats can be used any way you want to when the only stats that matter are wins and losses. Also, it's not just exclusive to Waldron either. I saw Geno throw one up for grabs in the first half of the Patriots game that would have been an easy interception if the up man haden't tipped and knocked it down. Not a knock on Geno either as all QB's do that at times. Just an observation.

 

[pittpnthrs]

IIRC, KJ Wright mentioned on his podcast that even he knew what the plays were watching from his couch. That's how bad Waldron was.

It wasn't just Waldron. It was an obvious pattern with the team under Carroll.

 

[keasley45]

IIRC, KJ Wright mentioned on his podcast that even he knew what the plays were watching from his couch. That's how bad Waldron was.

Yup. He did. So the criticism that Geno just 'got lucky' a lot is at best, a misenterpretation of a stat. In fact, its a credit to the dude that he didnt lead the league in INT's. Though his near league leading sack stat in undeniably tied to the ineffectiveness of Waldron in calling plays that actually help the QB with things like the occassion run, varying tempo, not running 80% long developing routes when your line cant block and its 3rd and 4... you know... stuff like that. And i say its undeniable, because the dude has proven that he can get the ball out not just quickly, but league leading quick.

But this season SHOULD make it pretty obvious the quality of QB that Geno is. But no doubt, his being unleashed in Grubb's scheme and improving on even his 2022 year will be twisted to read something like ' Geno was a JAG until Grubb 'fixed him''.

 

[keasley45]

It wasn't just Waldron. It was an obvious pattern with the team under Carroll.

Cant disagree there. PC died on the 'keep it simple' sword.

 

[SmokinHawk]

I need to see more, but he has been performing like one so far this season.

 

[SmokinHawk]

Cant disagree there. PC died on the 'keep it simple' sword.

What always baffled me was the way that despite a simple offense, we were always getting stupid procedural penalties, false starts, and whiffed blocks.

 

[warden]

Russ was very good until he wasn’t

 

[BigMeach]

Yes until we find someone better. I don't know why we would want to switch from him until that happens, he has proven himself in my eyes.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Trent Dilfer, Eli Manning, Nick Foles, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Jeff Hostetler, even Jim McMahon were not what I would call ELITE.

Yes correct. I also said if they are not elite then they must have elite defense In order to win. And those QBs you mention all played for teams with elite defenses. And I would argue that Eli is elite along with Jim McMahon. But all had generational defenses behind them.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Yeah, like that QB, in 2014, who disappeared for 90% of the game against KC. He got benched for Garoppolo, who proceeded to easily drive the field for a nice TD.

It wasn’t enough, though. He put his team into too big a hole for Jimmy G climb out of. Sure looked like JG should have been the starter.

That guy? Definitely not elite. On to Cincinnati.

Though he did look pretty darn good in the last game of that season. I think he even got a trophy of some sort, oh, and a truck too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Definitely not elite. Disappeared for more than half a game. Not the only game of his career where he did that either.

Bro what QB are you talking about in 2014 that got benched for Jimmy G. Onto Cincinnati what are wanking about bro. You ok!

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Except I didn’t go back to look at any stats, I’m not the one who pointed out the year thing, and I’m not a particular Geno fan, though I’m coming around and pointing out why. Must have me mixed up with someone else.

I just did the simple math of how many teams in the NFC made the playoffs, vs how many didn’t. The better argument against me is that, in fact, teams with worse records actually do get into the playoffs all the time, due to the way division champs are guaranteed a spot.

Point stands.

With extremely rare exceptions, like the ‘72 Dolphins, no team “controls their destiny.” Every one of them needs some level of help, at some point in the season, to make the playoffs. The ones at the bottom of the seeding needed more help than those at the top. Some get that help on the last week of the season, some get it earlier. Absolutely no difference.

The whole “doesn’t control their destiny” thing is a dumb canard. W-L record isn’t adjusted due to the time in the season when the games happen. A win or loss in week 1 counts exactly the same as a win or loss in week 18.

First, the year thing i admitted to having my years wrong. I'm not mixing you up with anyone else, you reply to my opinion and that tells other wise of how you feel about Geno.
And you say you did simple math about how many Nfc teams made tha playoffs vs how many didn't. Then say I had a better argument saying worse teams actually do. This tells me you understood what I was getting at.But you seem like a bright dude and I assumed I wouldn't have to spell it all out for so were not taking up multiple post going back and forth.

Point still stands.

And you say teams don't controll their own destiny! Are you saying if they win they don't controll it? There's teams every year atop their conferences that don't play starters because they already know what playoff spot they have. Is that not controlling their own destiny? Is that not a dumb canard

 

[bigskydoc]

Bro what QB are you talking about in 2014 that got benched for Jimmy G. Onto Cincinnati what are wanking about bro. You ok!

I’m fine, thanks for asking.

That QB? Oh, yeah. That was the guy who went on to win the XLIX Lombardi and Rozzelle trophies at the end of that season. Struck me as a pretty elite QB despite disappearing for more than half a game, before being benched.

When asked about the benching, and if Jimmy G would now be the new starting QB, his coach famously replied, “on to Cincinnati.” Seemed like a pretty elite coach, too.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Fresno Hawk]

We can absolutely judge Geno 2 games into the season with the context that 2 prior seasons of play have provided us.

The reason everyone loves Geno now isn't really because he's playing better.

The reason everyone loves Geno right now is that they're excited about the team again. We are winning, and the malaise people felt under Carroll is gone, so they're optimistic again.

The eeyores are getting laughed off the forum because no one wants to hear eeyore stuff currently. That'll swing back around if we're 2-4 in a few weeks.

This is all human nature. Most people are not actually grinding film and compiling advanced data to form an opinion on Geno Smith. Most are having their opinions formed by their general feeling about the team as well as the general tone of team media and experts.

I've been preaching the gospel on Geno for the better part of 2 years. People just are willing to accept it now that they're not pissed off about everything else in the organization. He's doing the same shit - playing excellent

Maybe we can judge Geno off 2 games. If it's the only games he plays this year. Prior season don't count for this year.
And I admitted to Geno getting better in previous post. But do I love him no I don't.

And yes I'm excited about the team this year but it isn't because of Geno. It's because of our new YOUNG head coach, and the possibilities of what our defense could become under him. I've also said it was time for Pete to go he had his time and it's over.

Who's getting laffed off the board? And why would any Hawk fan want the team to be 2-4 just to come and make a point? Not me I've said it before and I'll say it again I want Geno to do good, BECAUSE IF HE DOES IT MEANS THE HAWKS WIN!.

And that's right most people are not watching film to get their data. ME i don't do crap like that, but most people who can't accept the fact that I AM NOT SOLD ON GENO tend spat out his percentage this, his percentage that, here's the game tape showing this. And media people say what ever they can to get views. Some are positive some negative and some are Meh when talking about the Hawks.
I've been the same for the last 2 years about Geno.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

I’m fine, thanks for asking.

That QB? Oh, yeah. That was the guy who went on to win the XLIX Lombardi and Rozzelle trophies at the end of that season. Struck me as a pretty elite QB despite disappearing for more than half a game, before being benched.

When asked about the benching, and if Jimmy G would now be the new starting QB, his coach famously replied, “on to Cincinnati.” Seemed like a pretty elite coach, too.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your comparing apples to oranges. And i would love for Geno to rozelle some trophies for us.

 

[Lagartixa]

And I would argue that Eli is elite along with Jim McMahon. But all had generational defenses behind them.

I don't think even the Bill Swerski Superfans thought Jim McMahon was even an above-average quarterback, much less "elite."

Eli Manning was never among the top five quarterbacks in the league over a season, so he really doesn't belong in that category either, but he was a whole lot better than McMahon, even after adjusting for how the NFL changed between the 1980s and the aughts.

 

[Mick063]

Maybe we can judge Geno off 2 games. If it's the only games he plays this year. Prior season don't count for this year.
And I admitted to Geno getting better in previous post. But do I love him no I don't.

And yes I'm excited about the team this year but it isn't because of Geno. It's because of our new YOUNG head coach, and the possibilities of what our defense could become under him. I've also said it was time for Pete to go he had his time and it's over.

Who's getting laffed off the board? And why would any Hawk fan want the team to be 2-4 just to come and make a point? Not me I've said it before and I'll say it again I want Geno to do good, BECAUSE IF HE DOES IT MEANS THE HAWKS WIN!.

And that's right most people are not watching film to get their data. ME i don't do crap like that, but most people who can't accept the fact that I AM NOT SOLD ON GENO tend spat out his percentage this, his percentage that, here's the game tape showing this. And media people say what ever they can to get views. Some are positive some negative and some are Meh when talking about the Hawks.
I've been the same for the last 2 years about Geno.

Prior seasons count for this year. They count for evaluating Geno. He led the league in completion percentage. Under Waldron. Statistically, no one has been more clutch in the end game. His cumulative numbers as a starter hold up well. I reject your imposed ruleset. Who made you the administrator of Geno qualifiers?

 

[Fresno Hawk]

I don't think even the Bill Swerski Superfans thought Jim McMahon was even an above-average quarterback, much less "elite."

Eli Manning was never among the top five quarterbacks in the league over a season, so he really doesn't belong in that category either, but he was a whole lot better than McMahon, even after adjusting for how the NFL changed between the 1980s and the aughts.

Jim played in an era that was brutal and was elite for that time. Eli may have not been in the top five for a season but when he got in the playoffs he was cluch and has the rings to prove it.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Prior seasons count for this year. They count for evaluating Geno. He led the league in completion percentage. Under Waldron. Statistically, no one has been more clutch in the end game. His cumulative numbers as a starter hold up well. I reject your imposed ruleset. Who made you the administrator of Geno qualifiers?

Reject all you want it's my opinion, so go get your panties in bunch with someone else Mr sensitive Geno completion percentage guy.

 

[themunn]

He also leads the league in passes that should have been intercepted but were dropped and he's terrible in the red zone. Stats! *shrugs*

One of those is a made up stat and the other simply isn't true - in the last 2 years he ranks 8th for redzone TDs and 9th in yards while 22 other QBs have thrown as many or more interceptions (he's only thrown 2, 13 of those 22 have thrown 3 or more).

His completion percentage is on the low side at 48%, true, but that translates into a higher Yards/Completion rate compared to pretty much everyone, with Josh Allen shading above him (7.45 Y/C vs Geno's 7.41).

When he gets inside the 10 those stats look even better - 21 TDs vs 0 Ints.

Suggests that really the problem is with the play-calling between 10-20 yards which are looking for longer developing routes into the endzone rather than shortening the field with underneath routes (not withstanding the fact that our rushing game genuinely has been one of the worst in the league with Walker avging 2.0 YPC and Charbonnet an abysmal 0.7 YPC last season). But he's certainly not "terrible" in the redzone.

Those are ACTUAL stats. Not throwaway comments.