Geno and the Super Bowl

[EverydayImRusselin]

Even if Geno falls flat on hos face, that means the record is trash and the Hawks get a top pick. Better yet, Lock comes in a drives the bus off a cliff and the Hawks still get a high pick. There is no bad outcome for Seattle by rolling with Geno

Also, I think Drew Lock is terrible but I get why people dig him. Just don't want this thread to turn in a Lock debate, haha.

Except Pete and John have rebuilt the team enough that Geno falling off a cliff is a 6 or 7 win season. That's not going to get a high pick.

 

[jeremiah]

Let's get to the part about the quarter billion dollar guaranteed contract and the relentless year-to-year roster reshuffle required to maintain it. Let's include the entire story here.
The folks infatuated with quarterbacks always fail to mention it. ALWAYS.

Maintaining a decent roster with that ball and chain hanging around your neck is a bigger hurdle than building a championship defense. The team couldn't sniff the thought of a championship roster if they would have paid Wilson and once you pay for one of these prodigies, you are stuck with them. Just sayin'.

A great defense, a great running game is why we won the SB. Lynch and RW were the driving force for clock chewing drives, some with hardly a pass play of sophisitication. Geno can't run, Russ could and that scared the beejesus out ot teams. They could not game plan for the DL getting to the QB , but he spins out and runs for a first down. We won, because of a mobile QB, who could throw the ball too. Geno is nothing like that. He is a placeholder, it will be a waste if they don't come up with a possible QB with wheels and an arm, in the next year or two.

 

[m0ng0]

Some of the turnovers can be mitigated by improved offensive line play.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

A great defense, a great running game is why we won the SB. Lynch and RW were the driving force for clock chewing drives, some with hardly a pass play of sophisitication. Geno can't run, Russ could and that scared the beejesus out ot teams. They could not game plan for the DL getting to the QB , but he spins out and runs for a first down. We won, because of a mobile QB, who could throw the ball too. Geno is nothing like that. He is a placeholder, it will be a waste if they don't come up with a possible QB with wheels and an arm, in the next year or two.

I like to think Geno is a better pure passer than Wilson.

When have you seen Wilson make great anticipatory throws? He doesn’t.

Wilson waited until the receiver was almost wide open to throw in the pocket.

Geno can throw with better timing and anticipation.

Geno might not be the runner Wilson was but now that Wilson isn’t a threat to run his offensive options are very limited.

Geno, right now, is the better all around QB.

 

[keasley45]

A great defense, a great running game is why we won the SB. Lynch and RW were the driving force for clock chewing drives, some with hardly a pass play of sophisitication. Geno can't run, Russ could and that scared the beejesus out ot teams. They could not game plan for the DL getting to the QB , but he spins out and runs for a first down. We won, because of a mobile QB, who could throw the ball too. Geno is nothing like that. He is a placeholder, it will be a waste if they don't come up with a possible QB with wheels and an arm, in the next year or two.

Completely negate what a qb who could have read a defense back then might have done. His failure at doing so is what ultimately split the team.

Russ ran because he couldn't make the reads and throws on time. Was his dual threat ability something to account for? Absolutley. But a running qb has historically never carried more value than one who can master a passing offense.

 

[Mick063]

No one ever mentions the "ball and chain", quarter billion-dollar guaranteed salary demands of a unicorn quarterback, or how the roster has to be in a perpetual reshuffle to make cap room, and how the pressure of the entire franchise resides on the shoulders of one single player. Talk about all of your eggs in one basket. For every KC Mahomes, there is Denver's Wilson and Cleveland's Watson.

From this point forward, any discussion about quarterbacks that doesn't take into account for how that position taxes roster composition to the extreme, should be considered to be either a deceitful discussion or an uninformed discussion.

 

[Rainger]

Hey all 1 player can not win a SB. But 1 player can certinly lose a SB. ME3 anybody!!!!

 

[Lagartixa]

Get with the program. RW was an overrated game manager. He was just a scrub who played hero ball. We could have gone undefeated with someone like Geno. RW's clutch play didn't really add anything to the team - anyone could have done it.

Ignore those 4th qtr wins. Geno would have had more. Just because it looks like Geno hasn't elevated his game in high pressure situations doesn't mean he won't do it now.

Am I doing it right?

Setting up a strawman?

Perfectly. Textbook.

When @keasley45 and @Maelstrom787 were saying before the 2022 season started that based on what we had seen from Smith as the Seahawks QB in his stint replacing Wilson during Wilson's absence due to his finger injury and in the 2022 preseason, there was a good chance Smith would play reasonably well, I was skeptical, but they made good arguments. Those arguing against them basically set up strawmen like this (stuff like "yeah, Geno's a HoFer," which was not at all what @keasley45 and @Maelstrom787 were saying).

Getting back to @renofox getting upset about me saying Wilson was "just such a QB" in 2012-2014, the fact remains that if you look at 2012-2013, Wilson was a game manager, and in 2012-2021, he was a "system QB," one who had a lot of success within the system built for him. Further, 2022 showed us that once he was removed from the system that made him much more effective than just a game manager in 2014-2021, things went off the rails for him. I'm on record reminding people around here (frequently) that through his 20s, Brady was also a "game manager," and the debate was about Manning's sport-altering performance vs. Brady's game management and titles. It was only when he was over 30 that Brady started having seasons with Manning-level performance. The point here is that when I say Wilson was a game manager and a "system quarterback" in 2012-2013, that shouldn't be controversial. We can debate how much of Wilson's success in 2014-2021 was because of the system and how much was Wilson, but Wilson was asked to do relatively little in 2012-2013, and he did what the team needed within Pete Carroll's system.
This does not mean Wilson didn't, within Pete Carroll's system, produce a lot more than just game management in his time with the Seahawks. He had one season as one of the top three QBs in the NFL and several as one of the top ten. I understand that there are other positions on this, but I say Wilson was a "system QB" in 2014-2021 because he produced so much in those years and once he was removed from Pete Carroll's system, Wilson was one of the three worst starting QBs in the league, and that was on a team Wilson himself said was strong enough that he wouldn't have to "carry" it, and one that everyone told us had a much-better OL, a spectacularly better defense, and better weapons than the Seahawks had. Other opinions are perfectly valid and I've even seen decent arguments about some of Wilson's contributions in 2014-2021. But for 2012-2013? Wilson was clearly a game manager and a system QB.

 

[rcaido]

Hawks were top ten in QB pressure rate and sacks last year so not sure what you are smoking. Our run defense is what killed us...the problem is that I don't know that we have solved that with our current roster. I am sure that we will be better and maybe that will be enough if our pass defense steps up and gives us that extra second to turn a pressure into a sack. Maybe we can stack the box to stop the run and trust our secondary to shut it down. Going to be an interesting tear to be sure but I am excited to watch it.

Yes they were top 10 in sacks but they were ranked 28th in Pass Rush Win Rate (34%)
29th in Rushing Yards allowed (151.9)
28th in total yard (369.7)
25th in points allowed (24.6)
29th in average team plays per game (65.7)
In terms of time of possession, they were ranked 31st, because they couldn't just get the other teams off the field. (31.8 min)

 

[scutterhawk]

Why is it that everyone thinks we can’t win a Super Bowl with Geno. He played very well last year. With all the additional offensive weapons he will have even less pressure to "do it all”. He is more than capable. People think you need a Brady or Mahomes in order to win. That is just BS. We won when Russ was still budding and not “elite”. Plenty of others have been won without an elite QB. Geno may be elite (time will tell) but many have already written his narrative for him. Lame. I am not saying he is the second coming of Brady or anything like that but he has proven he can play at a high level. Let’s root for him and at least not write him off. Jeez. Some fan base we are.

You do know that you're going to get some blowback on Genos Competency, right?
I mean there's no way in hell that he can IMPROVE with a hell of a lot better O-Line play,, never mind maybe having added THE #3 WR in Jaxon Smith Njigba, a possible UPGRADED IN THE RUN ATTACK (like Purdy had last Season), AND maybe a LOT BETTER PLAY from the DEFENSE (that sucked BAAAAD last year)
You're even going to get some "I Like Geno Smith BUTTTTT" feedbacks, because SOME of the fans here aren't sold on him because he COULDN'T CARRY the CRAP DEFENSE to more wins last season.
Had Penny STAYED HEALTHY and the Defense not sh*t the bed in Germany by letting the Buc's run all over their asses, and then the 49rs doing exactly the same sh*t in ALL THREE games against them....Geno should have "Carried The Team" by going out there playing Defense too?? LOLOLOL Some Seahawks fans are just wtf's

 

[scutterhawk]

Yes they were top 10 in sacks but they were ranked 28th in Pass Rush Win Rate (34%)
29th in Rushing Yards allowed (151.9)
28th in total yard (369.7)
25th in points allowed (24.6)
29th in average team plays per game (65.7)
In terms of time of possession, they were ranked 31st, because they couldn't just get the other teams off the field. (31.8 min)

And actually MUCH WORSE when Me3 was here....Wasn't Wilson supposed to CARRY TEAM SEAHAWKS? TEAM Broncos'??? lolololololol

 

[pittpnthrs]

Completely negate what a qb who could have read a defense back then might have done. His failure at doing so is what ultimately split the team.

BS. The worst play call of all time and the failure of Carroll firing Bevell led to the split of locker room.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I don’t think Geno can or will win a Super Bowl., unless everything runs perfect, see Dilfer winning a SB.

I’d love for Geno to prove me wrong and cause me to shut my big fat yapper though.

 

[James in PA]

I agree that if any of the guys below can win a SB, Geno can certainly win one:

Joe Flacco
Trent Dilfer
Nick Foles
Brad Johnson
Jeff Hostetler
Doug Williams
Russell Wilson

 

[CPHawk]

I agree that if any of the guys below can win a SB, Geno can certainly win one:

Joe Flacco
Trent Dilfer
Nick Foles
Brad Johnson
Jeff Hostetler
Doug Williams
Russell Wilson

Troy Aikman. Most overrated SB QB ever. Give him last years Seahawks, and they win 6 games. He was a game manager

 

[keasley45]

BS. The worst play call of all time and the failure of Carroll firing Bevell led to the split of locker room.

Tell that to KJ, ADB, Sherm and everyone else who's come out and stated the opposite.

The SB fail was just the ultimate last straw.

It wasn't the worst playcall of all time. It's a route that led to the rulebook being rewritten because it was so incredibly effective, and we screwed it up.

And it's well documented that PC not holding Russ accountable, ... ever is what led to the split. The entire LOB didn't show up on week 1 of the 22 season to support Russ for surviving Pete. They showed up to support PC and the Hawks against Russ.

 

[Rainger]

Yes they were top 10 in sacks but they were ranked 28th in Pass Rush Win Rate (34%)
29th in Rushing Yards allowed (151.9)
28th in total yard (369.7)
25th in points allowed (24.6)
29th in average team plays per game (65.7)
In terms of time of possession, they were ranked 31st, because they couldn't just get the other teams off the field. (31.8 min)

Change you avatar PLEASE!!!!!!!

 

[Rainger]

Yes, I hope he proves me and others with the same skepticism wrong. Go Hawks!

HMMM he doesn't turn it over any more than ME3 does

 

[Rainger]

Tell that to KJ, ADB, Sherm and everyone else who's come out and stated the opposite.

The SB fail was just the ultimate last straw.

It wasn't the worst playcall of all time. It's a route that led to the rulebook being rewritten because it was so incredibly effective, and we screwed it up.

And it's well documented that PC not holding Russ accountable, ... ever is what led to the split. The entire LOB didn't show up on week 1 of the 22 season to support Russ for surviving Pete. They showed up to support PC and the Hawks against Russ.

The play was the right call for that down the execution was abysmal!

 

[Rainger]

Yes there were some anti-clutch moments from Geno last year. The strip fumble by the 49ers defender in the redzone is one such example. But just imagine if we had a back like Charbonnet in that situation, or an interior lineman who could block...

Regarding fumbles, look at these QBs who had more fumbles than Geno last season:

View attachment 58996

And also these highly-paid "top tier" QBs, who had more or the same number of picks:

View attachment 58997

With an improved WR group, RB room, and lineman who can protect, Geno won't have to "carry" the team. I expect the turnover rate to go down, and the points to go up.

Don't give logic to these people their heads will explode. RW was great Geno is shit, just listen to the prevailing wisdom and fall in line please!