The Seahawks Need to be Careful (Upcoming Draft)

LeaveLynchAlone

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The Seahawks need to be careful here, this is the biggest haul they will have for a longtime and if they blow these picks on guys like Collier, Brooks, Taylor, McDowell, and Blair, etc again. (Their recent draft history on defense is abysmal. Sold the farm for Adams, too.)

Pete in no normal organization would be allowed to continue to fail at this historic level, in drafting, development, and scheme for this many seasons. They have so many assets thrown at this defense, spending even more picks at it is not going to fix it when their issues are clearly systemic.

The Seahawks have not many 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round players drafted on offense in the previous 5 drafts ('22 they drafted mostly offense) because they've been blowing these picks on their defense as they've been trying to rebuild it for 5 years. Giving them more picks is not the answer until they fix what's going on at the top.

First 3 Rounds All Defensive players selected:
'17 Malik McDowell
'17 Shaq Griffin
'17 Lano Hill
'17 Naz Jones

'18 Rasheem Green

'19 LJ Collier
'19 Marquis Blair
'19 Cody Barton

'20 Jordyn Brooks
'20 Darrell Taylor

'21 (Jamal Adams Trade)


The Seahawks have drafted much better but have made way fewer picks on offense. in the first 3 rounds.

'17 Ethan Pocic

'18 Rashaad Penny

'19 DK Metcalf

'20 Damien Lewis

'21 Penny Hart


How can you trust Pete to pick the players he needs for his defense at this point? It's crazy to think this is even on the table as a possibility.

If Pete is still here going into the next draft, I propose all early picks are offensive players. Better to draft players who can actually play rather than a bunch of busts.

Two 1sts and Two 2nds based on recent draft history gets you -> LJ Collier, Jordyn Brooks, Darrell Taylor, & Marquis Blair.
Your anti Pete Carroll obsession is getting a little cringey. I'm sure Pete Carroll still believes in you!
 

LeaveLynchAlone

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Please allow me to summarize for folks didn't want to read long post, this is the summary:

"With Pete, we shall draft wrong. Fire Pete, sun will rise from East, again."

According to our learned friend, it SUCKS to be 12s with Pete as head coach, it sucks to be us:

There is a negative contingent here that is emboldened with losses.

Fade is emboldened even in wins because Fade sees everything through a worldview of all things Pete Carroll are all bad.

Anything good is in spite of Pete Carroll.

True discourse simply doesn't work this way.

The thinking is extremely simplistic, but with the time put into some of the posts picking information believing it shows authority on the subject only falls flat. Using more words, stats, or opinions doesn't lead to being more correct.

When you build a house on quicksand, the foundation won't support the house for long. Fade keeps moving the location of the house but continues to try building it on quicksand.
 

Natethegreat

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Drafting for need has been the biggest downfall of this F.O. for a while now. Big reaches on guys to fill a need, then we are told they would have been drafted by so and so if they didn't nab him there. Yeah Whatever. The truth is this F.O. has been bad for years in both offseason moves and drafting. This last year gives me some hope for the draft however. It seems like changes were made to no longer reach for need but maybe I'm wrong.
 

Natethegreat

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I can agree with this.
You don't think they had a different approach this year in the draft? Sure seemed like they did. If your talking about F.O. moves the last 8 years or so I don't know how you could argue they haven't had really bad offseason moves, trades, drafts.
 

Maelstrom787

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Drafting for need has been the biggest downfall of this F.O. for a while now. Big reaches on guys to fill a need, then we are told they would have been drafted by so and so if they didn't nab him there. Yeah Whatever. The truth is this F.O. has been bad for years in both offseason moves and drafting. This last year gives me some hope for the draft however. It seems like changes were made to no longer reach for need but maybe I'm wrong.
Sigh.

There's a point to be made about the over-reliance on drafting for need (Collier lol), but I don't see a point in devaluing your argument by denouncing solidly sourced reports of players having been about to go had Seattle not taken them.
 

Sun Tzu

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The Seahawks need to be careful here, this is the biggest haul they will have for a longtime and if they blow these picks on guys like Collier, Brooks, Taylor, McDowell, and Blair, etc again. (Their recent draft history on defense is abysmal. Sold the farm for Adams, too.)

Pete in no normal organization would be allowed to continue to fail at this historic level, in drafting, development, and scheme for this many seasons. They have so many assets thrown at this defense, spending even more picks at it is not going to fix it when their issues are clearly systemic.

The Seahawks have not many 1st, 2nd, & 3rd round players drafted on offense in the previous 5 drafts ('22 they drafted mostly offense) because they've been blowing these picks on their defense as they've been trying to rebuild it for 5 years. Giving them more picks is not the answer until they fix what's going on at the top.

First 3 Rounds All Defensive players selected:
'17 Malik McDowell
'17 Shaq Griffin
'17 Lano Hill
'17 Naz Jones

'18 Rasheem Green

'19 LJ Collier
'19 Marquis Blair
'19 Cody Barton

'20 Jordyn Brooks
'20 Darrell Taylor

'21 (Jamal Adams Trade)


The Seahawks have drafted much better but have made way fewer picks on offense. in the first 3 rounds.

'17 Ethan Pocic

'18 Rashaad Penny

'19 DK Metcalf

'20 Damien Lewis

'21 Penny Hart


How can you trust Pete to pick the players he needs for his defense at this point? It's crazy to think this is even on the table as a possibility.

If Pete is still here going into the next draft, I propose all early picks are offensive players. Better to draft players who can actually play rather than a bunch of busts.

Two 1sts and Two 2nds based on recent draft history gets you -> LJ Collier, Jordyn Brooks, Darrell Taylor, & Marquis Blair.
You do realize that of the 10 picks you listed (not counting Adams), 7 are still NFL players, 4 are starting, 1 is a rotational player, 1 is on IR, and 1 is on a PS. You could argue that of those starting, 2 should not be starters but situational or special teams players. I am guessing that maybe 2 will no longer be in the league for a second contract. So that means that of 10 guys drafted in the first 3 rounds over a 5-year period (hardly a massive investment), 50% of the picks stick and 20% are starting caliber players.

So...just curious if you happen to know the hit rate of late first-round picks (2 of the picks you listed), or second-round picks (3 of the picks), or third-round picks (5 of the picks). Because that might lend some useful context here. If you'd like a hint...the data does not support your narrative.
 

LeaveLynchAlone

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You don't think they had a different approach this year in the draft? Sure seemed like they did. If your talking about F.O. moves the last 8 years or so I don't know how you could argue they haven't had really bad offseason moves, trades, drafts.
What I would say is that using hindsight to make any point is easy but disingenuous and often not effective or based in factual truth.

Every team has hits and misses. Every team has injuries. Every team has long-shot success and blue-chip failures.

Being freed of the former QB, Bobby, Brown and other leadership gave us the draft capital, future cap space, and a leadership void that is allowing for a positive transition focused upon a youth movement.

It seems obvious to me that such significant changes in core pieces of the team, coupled with the significant offensive and defensive scheme changes will lead to heavy learning, ugly mistakes, and ongoing confusion. I also believe with time and experience things are going to naturally improve.

The culture here is also benefitted by younger-minded players who are team focused more so than me focused. So the recent draft was obviously benefited by the positioning and numbers leading to more successes this year and ideally next.

The fact that certain positions QB, LB, CB, OL are positions that have been in an open competition have allowed for the cream to begin rising and in the case of LB, we seem to have sour milk at the moment.

What happens here, complaining about the Seahawks players, coaches, front office, draft is happening with every fanbase for every team - successful or not. More so after losses but also after wins for some.

People over emphasize that which has happened recently but also over exaggerate events of the past that they identify as important or significant that fit the narrative they believe.

Every day, we all comment on the information that we deem important and discount those things that counter our beliefs, some don't move from what they believe even when the facts counter those beliefs. This has always been the case, yet nowadays there are plenty of people to agree with every opinion regardless of the veracity.

Do I believe the approach in the draft was somewhat different in recent years? Yes, based upon what Pete Carroll and John Snyder stated about their draft approach in recent years being different.

I won't presume to know what the differences are specifically and those who claim to know are only guessing unless they were given a detailed brief outlining the draft and how they evaluate players from the source (Pete and John).

The team already has 2 wins after 5 games. For many, this was nearing the peak for the season. This year is working out to be competitive and fun and we have a great deal of draft capital to look forward to next spring.
 
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Seahawker

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Pete needs to let John orchestrate the first 4-5 picks, like the thread title says this is a big one.
I would only support one (1) SMALL trade down in the first 4 picks, hopefully none. Defense (front 7) a safety, QB and an interior O-Lineman through round 4. WE NEED TO FIX WhAtEveEeR... is causing these piss-poor high pick draft busts!
Through the draft & free agency we should be able to (bigtime) upgrade at least 8 starters and turn this into a playoff team.

Teams with 2 first rounders, Texans, Dolphins, Eagles, Seahawks... Lions forfeit their 23' 1st round pick for violating league policies pertaining to the integrity of the game. 31 selections in the 1st round.
Teams with no first round pick, Cleveland, Denver, Ram's, 9ers, Saints.
Could be a lot of movement/trades in this draft.

Full disclosure: Because of day drinking & other factors I make no claim to the accuracy of the above statement. lol ;)
 
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Ozzy

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It’s hilarious people are defending how we’ve drafted over the past few years. I was told as late as this year that our drafting has gotten much better and the shining examples are Lewis, Taylor, Brooks. None of them are playing good at all. Lewis I like but wish he would move back to the right side. I get it a lot of people adore Pete and that’s fair he helped bring us the best moments in franchise history, but it’s also ok to admit he just hasn’t done well in this area the past few years and that is worrisome as fade pointed out in a year where we have a ton of high leverage capital.
I do think this rookie class this year is a good class and the best by far over the past few years which is encouraging. But I’m still worried as hell they will blow it next year. I hope not
 

DarkVictory23

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You do realize that of the 10 picks you listed (not counting Adams), 7 are still NFL players, 4 are starting, 1 is a rotational player, 1 is on IR, and 1 is on a PS. You could argue that of those starting, 2 should not be starters but situational or special teams players. I am guessing that maybe 2 will no longer be in the league for a second contract. So that means that of 10 guys drafted in the first 3 rounds over a 5-year period (hardly a massive investment), 50% of the picks stick and 20% are starting caliber players.

So...just curious if you happen to know the hit rate of late first-round picks (2 of the picks you listed), or second-round picks (3 of the picks), or third-round picks (5 of the picks). Because that might lend some useful context here. If you'd like a hint...the data does not support your narrative.
I very much appreciate this post because it seems every 'Pete can't draft!' thread has no context provided. I don't know the success rate for draft picks and really am not interested enough to do the research.

So, if Fade or any other member of the Pete-sucks brigade want to prove something to me, show me some context, not just a list of 'busts' because every coach in the league has busts on their drafting resumes.
 

BASF

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Pete needs to let John orchestrate the first 4-5 picks, like the thread title says this is a big one.
I would only support one (1) SMALL trade down in the first 4 picks, hopefully none. Defense (front 7) a safety, QB and an interior O-Lineman through round 4. WE NEED TO FIX WhAtEveEeR... is causing these piss-poor high pick draft busts!
Through the draft & free agency we should be able to (bigtime) upgrade at least 8 starters and turn this into a playoff team.

Teams with 2 first rounders, Texans, Dolphins, Eagles, Seahawks... Lions forfeit their 23' 1st round pick for violating league policies pertaining to the integrity of the game. 31 selections in the 1st round.
Teams with no first round pick, Cleveland, Denver, Ram's, 9ers, Saints.
Could be a lot of movement/trades in this draft.

Full disclosure: Because of day drinking & other factors I make no claim to the accuracy of the above statement. lol ;)
It is the Dolphins who lose their first pick next season:

 

onanygivensunday

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Teams with 2 first rounders, Texans, Dolphins, Eagles, Seahawks...
Teams with no first round pick, Cleveland, Denver, Ram's, 9ers, Saints.
The beauty of the Hawks having two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks in 2023 while the Rams and the 9ers don't have 1st rounders and the Rams also don't have their 4th and 5th round picks, is the Hawks are making hay talent-wise while the sun is shining and the Rams and 9ers aren't, which bodes well for the Hawks in 2023 through 2028 or so.
 

Ozzy

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What I would say is that using hindsight to make any point is easy but disingenuous and often not effective or based in factual truth.

Every team has hits and misses. Every team has injuries. Every team has long-shot success and blue-chip failures.

Being freed of the former QB, Bobby, Brown and other leadership gave us the draft capital, future cap space, and a leadership void that is allowing for a positive transition focused upon a youth movement.

It seems obvious to me that such significant changes in core pieces of the team, coupled with the significant offensive and defensive scheme changes will lead to heavy learning, ugly mistakes, and ongoing confusion. I also believe with time and experience things are going to naturally improve.

The culture here is also benefitted by younger-minded players who are team focused more so than me focused. So the recent draft was obviously benefited by the positioning and numbers leading to more successes this year and ideally next.

The fact that certain positions QB, LB, CB, OL are positions that have been in an open competition have allowed for the cream to begin rising and in the case of LB, we seem to have sour milk at the moment.

What happens here, complaining about the Seahawks players, coaches, front office, draft is happening with every fanbase for every team - successful or not. More so after losses but also after wins for some.

People over emphasize that which has happened recently but also over exaggerate events of the past that they identify as important or significant that fit the narrative they believe.

Every day, we all comment on the information that we deem important and discount those things that counter our beliefs, some don't move from what they believe even when the facts counter those beliefs. This has always been the case, yet nowadays there are plenty of people to agree with every opinion regardless of the veracity.

Do I believe the approach in the draft was somewhat different in recent years? Yes, based upon what Pete Carroll and John Snyder stated about their draft approach in recent years being different.

I won't presume to know what the differences are specifically and those who claim to know are only guessing unless they were given a detailed brief outlining the draft and how they evaluate players from the source (Pete and John).

The team already has 2 wins after 5 games. For many, this was nearing the peak for the season. This year is working out to be competitive and fun and we have a great deal of draft capital to look forward to next spring.
But even looking at it objectively they've been below average draft wise even when factoring in all the moving parts for a draft. It's ok to admit they were flat out bad at drafting for a few years. This years rookie class looks fantastic and they deserve credit for it as well. All of it can be true and while I'm skeptical of handing them a ton of high draft capitol the optimistic side of me is hoping a change in this years class means they will get this one right.
 

Vesuve

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First 3 Rounds All Defensive players selected:
'17 Malik McDowell
'17 Shaq Griffin
'17 Lano Hill
'17 Naz Jones

'18 Rasheem Green

'19 LJ Collier
'19 Marquis Blair
'19 Cody Barton

'20 Jordyn Brooks
'20 Darrell Taylor

'21 (Jamal Adams Trade)
This is a sad list.....this is not "hate" by the OP, here....he's just stating the FACTS.
 

KinesProf

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This most recent draft, and the stellar early returns on it, has JS's fingerprints all over it. Though to be fair to Pete, K9 and Woolen feel very much like "Pete" picks.

Maybe coming out of the meeting with ownership this offseason John was granted more draft autonomy. I hope they can duplicate this class.
 
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