Maelstrom787
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Aaaaaand back to square one
Unlock Lock?
- Thread starter AROS
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You're essentially saying a descriptive statistic is wrong because of "a very obvious factual observation." Fascinating.
I won't begrudge you for feeling vindicated, even though Geno's percentage is roughly the same. And you'd need some serious mental gymnastics to believe Geno is why the last drive failed, which makes me wonder if you'd have posted this if they scored on the final drive (but I digress). Still, your argument here is silly. My conclusion is supported by objective facts, while yours is entirely subjective. And yet, somehow, you treat your observations as facts and statistics as antiquated.
scutterhawk
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LOL, You be thinkin' he should play Defense too?Right, because Geno is SO good in the 4th quarter or when the game is on the line
Geno was NOT the only reason for this loss; The Defen-sieve missed tackles, and allowing the Falcons Offense to run right through them WAS.
GemCity
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Geno is performing well above my expectations. I don’t see any reason to pull Lock in now.
SoulfishHawk
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I never said Geno was the only reason they lost. He was part of it. And yes I started the day saying he choked, that was a little harsh, and I know it. Defense and horrific play calling was a huge part of it. I said he had a chance to win it, and he didn't. But if you think he has NOTHING to do with them losing, fine (not saying you did)
When did this place become "how dare you say something negative about Geno?"
This is the NFL, the QB is going to take some of the blame. Period.
When did this place become "how dare you say something negative about Geno?"
This is the NFL, the QB is going to take some of the blame. Period.
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scutterhawk
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So hmm, you're thinkin' that Geno didn't play a LOT BETTER than he did in the first two games, and that the Defense didn't shatt the bed in THIS ONE?I never said Geno was the only reason they lost. He was part of it. And yes I started the day saying he choked, that was a little harsh, and I know it. Defense and horrific play calling was a huge part of it. I said he had a chance to win it, and he didn't. But if you think he has NOTHING to do with them losing, fine (not saying you did)
When did this place become "how dare you say something negative about Geno?"
This is the NFL, the QB is going to take some of the blame. Period.
Point is Soulfish, Geno has shown progression, and the Defense has shown that they are winging it and not making the needed plays at crucial times.
Pete Carroll has already stated that the loss had a lot more to do with too many missed Defensive assignments and playing undisciplined football, than any mistakes made by Geno.
Yeah, there's plenty enough blame to go around for this loss, but honestly?, Geno would HAVE TO BE at the tail end on this one.
I guess everybody has their scapegoat and guys to blame for this loss, and most other times I'd be lighting the torches & handing out the pitchforks on the 'Down with Geno' bashing, but Not this time, not for this game.
OP
OP
To me, Geno is who I thought he was. Better than many think in terms of efficiency, solid arm, accuracy, being a field general, et al...
But when it comes to clutch? Winning the game in the 4th? Game winning drives?
But when it comes to clutch? Winning the game in the 4th? Game winning drives?
Maelstrom787
Well-known member
I just think we'd be talking waaaay different right now if the guys name wasn't "Geno Smith." That preconceived notion of "bust" makes it so that he has to be literally perfect to get the amount of praise he deserves.
If he were as clutch as people demand he be, he'd be a top-10 quarterback in the league.
If he were as clutch as people demand he be, he'd be a top-10 quarterback in the league.
hawks85
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Geno is pure garbage. Seattle is his 5th team for a reason. He's not even close to being a starting caliber QB in the NFL. I'm willing to give Lock a go.
nwHawk
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Yup. If a rookie played yesterday then maybe Damien Lewis would have got more grief about his drive / game crushing hold. Geno does need to learn when to arc a long pass rather than always throwing a flat ball. Flat leads to a challenged play and greater risk. He should have learned that from the previous QB.
Maelstrom787
Well-known member
I guess I just don't get why people think this, even as he continues to play really decent football. It just seems like all of this analysis is mostly based on what the guy did 7 years ago on a contender for the worst franchise in pro football.
hawks85
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Geno hasn't progressed on any of the teams he was on. That's why he has been a back up.
Maelstrom787
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But he HAS progressed greatly here. Every analysis points to it, from tape to simple and advanced stats. Great efficiency, solid command, and he's even improving in terms of not taking as many sacks.
You won't see me arguing that he didn't suck ass originally, but he's developed into a decent player along the way and he's proving it every week. He's not a franchise guy, but he's definitely a lot better than he was as a younger player.
Where do you think that puts Geno's long-term value as a starter? Because several QBs have flourished despite supposedly struggling in the clutch, such as Cousins, Prescott, and Garoppolo. And if Geno's numbers continue at this pace, he'll be right in their territory at the end of the season.
I think 4th quarter comebacks are more about the team than anything. And determining which QB is clutch or not is hard to quantify and seems to be more about performances that stand out (Brady vs. the Falcons) than anything concrete. For example, Brady had five combined game-winning drives over three seasons (2017-19), while Geno had five in his rookie season. Similarly, Aaron Rodgers has fewer career game-winning drives than guys like Derek Carr, Matt Ryan, and Andy Dalton. From my vantage point, winning games in the clutch seems pretty random.
OP
OP
Perhaps, however, we all know what "clutch" looks like. We all have watched football long enough to know when we see a "clutch" QB just in general. Geno is better than a lot of people want to give him credit for but would I ever call him "clutch"? Nope. In fact, it seems the opposite. He tends to fold or turn the ball over when it matters most, i.e. the 4th quarter. He did it again last Sunday. Throwing a flat dart into triple coverage when he had wide open receivers in the end zone? Not clutch.
Not even Brady or Rodgers are "clutch" every single game. I get that. But looking at the entirety of these player's careers, you can easily see enough sample size to make an informed decision.
Geno is serviceable. Maybe even starter potential for some teams. I just think we have all seen his ceiling. He is a .500 QB. I'm neither Pro Geno or Anti Geno. I have no agenda there but my eyes see what my eyes see.
.500 at best.
Not even Brady or Rodgers are "clutch" every single game. I get that. But looking at the entirety of these player's careers, you can easily see enough sample size to make an informed decision.
Geno is serviceable. Maybe even starter potential for some teams. I just think we have all seen his ceiling. He is a .500 QB. I'm neither Pro Geno or Anti Geno. I have no agenda there but my eyes see what my eyes see.
.500 at best.
m0ng0
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I think .500 is a big stretch at this point,. I mean we are worried about the Lions
Best case is the team grows around Geno and they start to play better more rounded ball by the end of the season and that will make Geno look better, however he really isn't.
He cannot be counted on to do much more than not make too many mistakes. However I think things are going to get worse before they get better. No defense in the league is scared of Smith and every team will force Smith to beat them by stacking the box against the run.
It's going to be a rough year for Penny, Walker, Dallas and Homer. Deep down in my heart I think Lock with his more gunslinger style might make defenses more honest...pure speculation of course.
Best case is the team grows around Geno and they start to play better more rounded ball by the end of the season and that will make Geno look better, however he really isn't.
He cannot be counted on to do much more than not make too many mistakes. However I think things are going to get worse before they get better. No defense in the league is scared of Smith and every team will force Smith to beat them by stacking the box against the run.
It's going to be a rough year for Penny, Walker, Dallas and Homer. Deep down in my heart I think Lock with his more gunslinger style might make defenses more honest...pure speculation of course.
SoulfishHawk
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Better than expected, but not in the clutch. Not really much else I can say. I'll just blasted for having an opinion anyway. And I'm very aware that my "choke" comments were a little harsh. However, welcome to over reaction Monday. They had the game right in front of them and didn't get it done. It pissed me off. Welcome to NFL football
Maelstrom787
Well-known member
The fact that we're getting very good third down production, very good passing EPA/play (elevated by late down passing), very good CPOE, etc. from a cheap stopgap, all of which are exceeding that of the quarterback we JUST traded away for A LOT OF RETURN, is an awesome development.
He's outplayed Russell Wilson this year.
Significantly.
In fact, he's outplayed most quarterbacks this year in every single stat I made mention of.
Even PFF is giving him good grades, and they have a notable tendency for bias against players that are seen as bad by the public.
If he were doing these crazy comebacks that people want to overcome the worst Seahawks roster in a overcome decade, his play would be legitimately top-5 in the league right now.
Regardless of he absence of late game heroics, if the team can't succeed with this level of play from the quarterback position, then hardly any rookie is going to fix any of this. The overall roster talent, namely the defense, is the issue.
Geno's just easy to point a finger at. By no measure has he been a bottom feeder this year at QB... the same can't be said for his defense. They deserve the scorn, not Geno for overperformimg.
He's outplayed Russell Wilson this year.
Significantly.
In fact, he's outplayed most quarterbacks this year in every single stat I made mention of.
Even PFF is giving him good grades, and they have a notable tendency for bias against players that are seen as bad by the public.
If he were doing these crazy comebacks that people want to overcome the worst Seahawks roster in a overcome decade, his play would be legitimately top-5 in the league right now.
Regardless of he absence of late game heroics, if the team can't succeed with this level of play from the quarterback position, then hardly any rookie is going to fix any of this. The overall roster talent, namely the defense, is the issue.
Geno's just easy to point a finger at. By no measure has he been a bottom feeder this year at QB... the same can't be said for his defense. They deserve the scorn, not Geno for overperformimg.
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SoulfishHawk
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He's playing fine. I just want him to produce more in the 4th quarter. I don't think that's too much at ask. But it just becomes some huge argument and freak out because someone dares to ask more of the QB.
Maelstrom787
Well-known member
You're asking for top-5 caliber play from Geno Smith. It's a pretty unreasonable expectation to have.
