Watching Brees last night....................

Was a stark contrast to what we've seen out of Russell this year.

I love Russell, and I don't think he's playing terrible this year. But the combo of him getting paid and us not seeing a noticeable progression in his rise to one of the top QB's in the league is disappointing thus far this season.

I know Brees is THE QB Russell models his game after, but last night Brees was confident and didn't hesitate to throw balls into double coverage and tight spaces................and doing it with less talent around him, and a worse defense.

My question is, will Russell get to this point in his career? Or is he going to stay this conservative somewhat tentative QB afraid to make the big mistake. IMO if he's ever going to get into that "Elite" top 2-3 in the league discussion, we're going to have to see a lot more of what we saw Brees do last night.

Fortune favors the bold .at some point he's got a throw the rock with some consistency and aggressiveness to have a long career in this NFL

I did have similar thoughts but our line has been much worse than the Saints and what Brees has had to deal with. Ironically Unger hasn't been very good.

I think Wilson does what the coaches ask and is told to not make mistakes and do not turn the ball over. It has been a perfect script because of how good our defense is. As the defense gets worse he will have to take some chances and trust his arm and decision making. He will be fine imo.

I guarantee you Brees wouldn't have missed Tyler Lockett in OT.

I look at it this way...

How many years has Brees been in this league? How many years has Wilson been in this league? To me it's apples to oranges. While Russell has broken records since he's been in the league, and while we all know the special player he is, I am not expecting Wilson to look - in year 4 - like an All Pro QB does in his 15th season even with the above mentioned lesser talent around him.

Wilson's natural instincts and ability has been somewhat tempered in this system due in part to how much Pete ingrains in him the absolute necessity to not turn the ball over at any cost. This carries over into his tendency to not force balls in tight windows, even when said window has a 6'7" All Pro Tight End behind it. He's at times perplexingly tentative where I would think he wouldn't otherwise be.

Add to the mix an OL that is learning on the job (Wilson's been sacked 22 times, the most in the NFL so far this season) and I can see why he's not lighting up the stat line.

I am more concerned with the coaches not giving him full reign to act instinctively then I am anything else. It has a trickle down effect which I truly believe has been the primary cause of him not taking that next step that we know he has in him.

Hasselbeck":22v7vws2 said:

I guarantee you Brees wouldn't have missed Tyler Lockett in OT.

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He didn't miss him the line collapsed in his face and he had to move giving time for the safety to come across and make a play that should have been PI.

Is Drew's o-line a damn site better than Seattle's at pass pro?

Agree with Aros about experience and add in playing behind this o-line and it's no wonder Russ isn't Drew. If this team is going to switch to more passing as it appears they are trying to do, they are going to have to do a better job of drafting o-linemen. What would this offense look like if Carpenter, Moffit, Britt, et. al. had played to their draft status?

Aros":2hb842dd said:

I am more concerned with the coaches not giving him full reign to act instinctively then I am anything else. It has a trickle down effect which I truly believe has been the primary cause of him not taking that next step that we know he has in him.

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I do think that's part of it. Pete's philosophy has always been run first, protect the ball, make a couple explosive plays and put the game in the hands of the defense.

But that still doesn't mean we shouldn't be seeing more of a progression out of Russell, especially late in these games.

He's had how many opportunities this season to win games late or in overtime? 5 drives? 6 drives?..........and hasn't been clutch. That's the progression, lack of aggression, and lack of willingness to take risks that all the great QB's possess.

randomation":2xqjossh said:

Hasselbeck":2xqjossh said:

I guarantee you Brees wouldn't have missed Tyler Lockett in OT.

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He didn't miss him the line collapsed in his face and he had to move giving time for the safety to come across and make a play that should have been PI.

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Huh? When did the safety make a play? Didn't Lockett catch the ball?

Sgt. Largent":2pg04xlx said:

I do think that's part of it. Pete's philosophy has always been run first, protect the ball, make a couple explosive plays and put the game in the hands of the defense.

But that still doesn't mean we shouldn't be seeing more of a progression out of Russell, especially late in these games.

He's had how many opportunities this season to win games late or in overtime? 5 drives? 6 drives?..........and hasn't been clutch. That's the progression, lack of aggression, and lack of willingness to take risks that all the great QB's possess.

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I admit, Wilson has had opportunities he's flat out missed but I still put a lot of the problem on the things I mentioned as to be considerable factors in his lack of clutch performances this season. OL weighs heavily into that. Give this man time to throw and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I don't how you can compare QBs that have been in the league for more than a decade, plus Saints value O-line and offense more than this team. The only thing I envy is having a play caller like Payton or Shanahan.

I don't think Russ is ever going to match Brees as a pure passer. Not many will. Brees is so accurate, has such a quick release, and is so good in the pocket despite his height. Russell just does not have the stellar combination of those particular gifts, at least not close to the extent that Brees does. He has other, different skills that make him a good player, but we are all seeing his limitations as a passer. He's not great in the pocket, misses open receivers, and appears to be too short to see or throw to the short middle of the field from the pocket. And for whatever reason, he either is not good enough or not brave enough to gun it to those tight windows to WRs that are only partially open. For these reasons I don't think he will ever be an elite passer like Brees.

Aros":13tmp4ad said:

I look at it this way...

How many years has Brees been in this league? How many years has Wilson been in this league? To me it's apples to oranges. While Russell has broken records since he's been in the league, and while we all know the special player he is, I am not expecting Wilson to look - in year 4 - like an All Pro QB does in his 15th season even with the above mentioned lesser talent around him.

Wilson's natural instincts and ability has been somewhat tempered in this system due in part to how much Pete ingrains in him the absolute necessity to not turn the ball over at any cost. This carries over into his tendency to not force balls in tight windows, even when said window has a 6'7" All Pro Tight End behind it. He's at times perplexingly tentative where I would think he wouldn't otherwise be.

Add to the mix an OL that is learning on the job (Wilson's been sacked 22 times, the most in the NFL so far this season) and I can see why he's not lighting up the stat line.

I am more concerned with the coaches not giving him full reign to act instinctively then I am anything else. It has a trickle down effect which I truly believe has been the primary cause of him not taking that next step that we know he has in him.

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100% agree. We are comparing year four Russell with year 15 Drew

Just for some perspective - it was not until year 4 for Brees with San Diego that he "broke out" and had anything more than an average season. He did not emerge as an elite, consistent QB until years 6, 7, and 8 with NO. Russ is considerably ahead of where Brees was at this point in his career. Everything that is currently a struggle, should be correctable as he continues to grow and learn

bandiger":2bv140xf said:

I don't how you can compare QBs that have been in the league for more than a decade, plus Saints value O-line and offense more than this team. The only thing I envy is having a play caller like Payton or Shanahan.

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I thought Russell was suppose to be entering his prime.

I liken some of this to how I look at Michael Jordon, Larry Bird or Magic Johnson to name a few NBA greats. How many times did their teams and head coaches tell them to take the game over and win it for them. How many times did they take the last shot themselves to win or lose the game.

Now ask yourself how many times do you think a HC or assistant coach told them to not take the shot unless you have an absolutely clear line of site because they don't want a turnover when the game was on the line?

This is how I look at our situation with RW and his lack of progression. I see a QB who has just immense ability that can take him to the absolute best not only for today, but potentially of all time. He could be that good!

But unless PC and DB allow him to take that next step and not knock him on the head then we may have seen his peak. At least with this coaching team and/or team. No I'm not saying I want us to get rid of RW to make it clear.

What I do want is for PC and DB to allow that progression this season. This is his 4th year in the NFL so he is not a rookie any longer. We should be seeing a confident and aggressive leader who takes risks because "HE" believes it's the right thing to do. Put the game in his hands and let him win it for us on his terms!

That is what Drew Brees did last night. It was a great thing to see!

Sgt. Largent":1kbe0ctq said:

bandiger":1kbe0ctq said:

I don't how you can compare QBs that have been in the league for more than a decade, plus Saints value O-line and offense more than this team. The only thing I envy is having a play caller like Payton or Shanahan.

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I thought Russell was suppose to be entering his prime.

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There's are lots of 'suppose tos' in football. What if he's not? Better figure out how to deal with it for the next 3 seasons.

randomation":92mdvu6q said:

Hasselbeck":92mdvu6q said:

I guarantee you Brees wouldn't have missed Tyler Lockett in OT.

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He didn't miss him the line collapsed in his face and he had to move giving time for the safety to come across and make a play that should have been PI.

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OR...

He had a pocket, and ran into a rush that wasn't there... missing 3 wide open guys in the process.

Brees would do that though right?



Face it, Wilson does this a lot.. I agree the protection is abysmal.. but a lot of times he compounds the issue, unlike Brees who has pocket presence, less weapons in the passing attack, and a bum shoulder to boot - and he still gets it done.

That's what Sgt. Largent is alluding to. Yeah there's something to be said for experience, but at some point.. Russell needs to show glimpses of these traits too.

On that play if he went one, two, three and throw he did have three open guys. I will agree he needs to take first look and hit the guy, hoping for the big play with his line as it is will get him in more trouble at this point.

mrt144":3n42vria said:

Sgt. Largent":3n42vria said:

bandiger":3n42vria said:

I don't how you can compare QBs that have been in the league for more than a decade, plus Saints value O-line and offense more than this team. The only thing I envy is having a play caller like Payton or Shanahan.

Click to expand...

I thought Russell was suppose to be entering his prime.

Click to expand...

There's are lots of 'suppose tos' in football. What if he's not? Better figure out how to deal with it for the next 3 seasons.

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Well it's obvious he's not. I don't see any improvements over last year..............in fact due to him not being clutch late in any games this year, you could argue he's regressed a little.

Not all his fault, I understand. He's playing behind a all time bad pass pro line. But still, no progression towards what we all thought he could be, and MORE importantly what we're now paying him to be.

Hasselbeck":j5os8hw5 said:

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That play is a classic example of when I said I admit, Wilson has had opportunities he's flat out missed. That is one of them. Take 'em when you got 'em Wilson.