Watching Brees last night....................

[kf3339]

Was a stark contrast to what we've seen out of Russell this year.

I love Russell, and I don't think he's playing terrible this year. But the combo of him getting paid and us not seeing a noticeable progression in his rise to one of the top QB's in the league is disappointing thus far this season.

I know Brees is THE QB Russell models his game after, but last night Brees was confident and didn't hesitate to throw balls into double coverage and tight spaces................and doing it with less talent around him, and a worse defense.

My question is, will Russell get to this point in his career? Or is he going to stay this conservative somewhat tentative QB afraid to make the big mistake. IMO if he's ever going to get into that "Elite" top 2-3 in the league discussion, we're going to have to see a lot more of what we saw Brees do last night.

Breese also doesn't have Pete Carroll telling him to not take chances with those throws, for fear of turning the ball over.
Wilson is probably doing the "Protect The Ball" to a fault.
Another thing that, I Think, is being overlooked with Wilson this Season, and it ain't the money, it's not having Marshawn Lynch in there to HELP give the Defenses some pause with all their blitzes, and I think that with all the sacks he's taken, is proof of that.

The quote about Carroll and Wilson is exactly correct. It annoys the HELL out of me.

As far as Lynch goes it has an affect, but to me far less than your first observation.

 

[rideaducati]

I didn't watch Brees last night but I'll add that Russel Wilson s Russel Wilson and not Drew Breed, regardless of height similarities.
He should have more rolling pocket's for his style of play.

He who? Brees or Russell?

Rolling Brees out works because of his abilities in the pocket have defensive ends coming after him in the pocket. Rollouts don't work with Russell because defensive ends rush to contain Russell and end up standing where Russell would be rolling out to. If Russell ever becomes dangerous from within the pocket on a consistent basis, rollouts would be called and would work. Until then, rolling Russell out won't turn out well a majority of the time.

 

[scutterhawk]

The experience isnt really a factor if you consider how good Brees was in his 3rd and 4th year.He is one of the best in his time.
I doubt Russel will ever become the type of QB Brees is.The guy is fearless. Whether he has thrown 4 interceptions or 1,he has that shooter mentality and confidence he can make the next play.

You cant run a consistent offense without your QB having elite timing and the willingness to let er rip.Playing safe at QB means you are you are relying on D and a running game.

I love Wilson but you have to accept what he is in this offense.

BUNK!
Russell Wilson is quite capable of "Letting It Rip", but Pete Carroll still has him in the "Protect The Ball" mode, and that's why we're all seeing him play with reservations.
Pete Carroll has developed an Offense that he feels, has best chances to succeed, (an two Super Bowl visits backs his theory up) and the two KEY players that made his recipe work, is a ground pounding Marshawn "The Beast" Lynch, and an elusive scrambling Russell Wilson, along with a Top of the Heap Defense.
It sure as hell hasn't been an all World Offensive Line.
Lynch's absence has put an extra load on Wilson to carry the team.

 

[rideaducati]

The experience isnt really a factor if you consider how good Brees was in his 3rd and 4th year.He is one of the best in his time.
I doubt Russel will ever become the type of QB Brees is.The guy is fearless. Whether he has thrown 4 interceptions or 1,he has that shooter mentality and confidence he can make the next play.

You cant run a consistent offense without your QB having elite timing and the willingness to let er rip.Playing safe at QB means you are you are relying on D and a running game.

I love Wilson but you have to accept what he is in this offense.

BUNK!
Russell Wilson is quite capable of "Letting It Rip", but Pete Carroll still has him in the "Protect The Ball" mode, and that's why we're all seeing him play with reservations.
Pete Carroll has developed an Offense that he feels, has best chances to succeed, (an two Super Bowl visits backs his theory up) and the two KEY players that made his recipe work, is a ground pounding Marshawn "The Beast" Lynch, and an elusive scrambling Russell Wilson, along with a Top of the Heap Defense.
It sure as hell hasn't been an all World Offensive Line.
Lynch's absence has put an extra load on Wilson to carry the team.

Rawls did plenty to lighten the load for Russell. Russell didn't have to carry the team, he just needed to make the plays that were there to be made. He didn't.

 

[Largent80]

I didn't watch Brees last night but I'll add that Russel Wilson s Russel Wilson and not Drew Breed, regardless of height similarities.
He should have more rolling pocket's for his style of play.

He who? Brees or Russell?

Rolling Brees out works because of his abilities in the pocket have defensive ends coming after him in the pocket. Rollouts don't work with Russell because defensive ends rush to contain Russell and end up standing where Russell would be rolling out to. If Russell ever becomes dangerous from within the pocket on a consistent basis, rollouts would be called and would work. Until then, rolling Russell out won't turn out well a majority of the time.

NO. We have linemen that are too damn tall, they get pushed back consistently. This will not change so what needs to change is to give evey man movement then defenders can't easily collapse a pocket that is almost never there.

 

[scutterhawk]

That play is a classic example of when I said I admit, Wilson has had opportunities he's flat out missed. That is one of them. Take 'em when you got 'em Wilson.

This is the EXACT play that had me pissed off, as Lockett was hit BEFORE the ball got there, and the PI flag didn't come out? piss poor non call by the officials.

 

[rideaducati]

I didn't watch Brees last night but I'll add that Russel Wilson s Russel Wilson and not Drew Breed, regardless of height similarities.
He should have more rolling pocket's for his style of play.

He who? Brees or Russell?

Rolling Brees out works because of his abilities in the pocket have defensive ends coming after him in the pocket. Rollouts don't work with Russell because defensive ends rush to contain Russell and end up standing where Russell would be rolling out to. If Russell ever becomes dangerous from within the pocket on a consistent basis, rollouts would be called and would work. Until then, rolling Russell out won't turn out well a majority of the time.

NO. We have linemen that are too damn tall, they get pushed back consistently. This will not change so what needs to change is to give evey man movement then defenders can't easily collapse a pocket that is almost never there.

Good idea...if you want Russell taking even more hits.

 

[Hasselbeck]

That play is a classic example of when I said I admit, Wilson has had opportunities he's flat out missed. That is one of them. Take 'em when you got 'em Wilson.

This is the EXACT play that had me pissed off, as Lockett was hit BEFORE the ball got there, and the PI flag didn't come out? piss poor non call by the officials.

Sure it was a missed call, but if Wilson steps into the pocket and throws a rope, Lockett jogs into the end zone.

Agree with the other Largent, you'd think our wonderchild of an OC could draw up some passing plays that play to the strength of Wilson.. but nahhhhh

Bevell isn't doing any favors to begin with, then when he has big plays he's not making defenses pay for them.

That's our offense in a nut shell right now.

 

[Largent80]

And why or HOW could or would he take more hits Nostradamus.

 

[rideaducati]

And why or HOW could or would he take more hits Nostradamus.

Defensive ends rush to contain Russell and they usually end up being where Russell would be rolling to. They have done rollouts with Russell this year and almost every time the defensive end has been running free and there immediately forcing Russell to throw the ball away. If Russell had tried to pass to an actual receiver instead of throwing the ball away on those rollouts, the defensive end would have plastered him as he threw the ball. Go back and watch the rollout passes this year and then tell me how Russell WOULDN'T take more hits if they did that more.

The bubble screens to Kearse have been more productive than the rollout passes have been this season.

 

[ZagHawk]

For years I've read people describe how RW is not an elite QB, and I'm finally starting to see it. Yeah we can make claims he does not have the same years as someone like Brees, BUT he's making Elite QB money now. Expectations are different now.

 

[Largent80]

There is no way any defensive player should be running free towards our qb unless they have us outmanned, and those times create the mis matches needed in the passing game.

Sometimes chances need to be taken and this staff needs to come up with some NEW plays incorporating a moving pocket because they are incapable of holding a conventional pocket.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

This forum is almost unbearable to read. Everyone is so critical of RW. Newsflash fans, the Oline is hot garbage. Yes there may be a few plays where he could have hung in the pocket and delivered a pass, but when the pocket is collapsing 75% of the time, there is a good chance you are going to bail early the other 25% of the times.

 

[rideaducati]

There is no way any defensive player should be running free towards our qb unless they have us outmanned, and those times create the mis matches needed in the passing game.

Sometimes chances need to be taken and this staff needs to come up with some NEW plays incorporating a moving pocket because they are incapable of holding a conventional pocket.

Until Russell starts beating teams from within the pocket, defenses will continue to contain him making a moving pocket next to useless. We have seen the rollout this year and each time the play has Russell running backwards and towards the sideline where he usually throws the ball away. Occasionally, Russell cuts back inside and makes something out of nothing, but relying on the rollout this year has been a losing proposition for the most part and looks like a quick way to get Russell killed.

I think Russell should treat every pass play like he is in the two minute offense and when he hits his drop he should throw the ball immediately. How is it that he only does that in the last two minutes of each half? It is a beautiful thing to see, but we rarely get to see it.

 

[mrt144]

There is no way any defensive player should be running free towards our qb unless they have us outmanned, and those times create the mis matches needed in the passing game.

Sometimes chances need to be taken and this staff needs to come up with some NEW plays incorporating a moving pocket because they are incapable of holding a conventional pocket.

I think Russell should treat every pass play like he is in the two minute offense and when he hits his drop he should throw the ball immediately. How is it that he only does that in the last two minutes of each half? It is a beautiful thing to see, but we rarely get to see it.

You're not going to like this answer:

Maybe because he's doing what he's told to do in those situations.

 

[rideaducati]

There is no way any defensive player should be running free towards our qb unless they have us outmanned, and those times create the mis matches needed in the passing game.

Sometimes chances need to be taken and this staff needs to come up with some NEW plays incorporating a moving pocket because they are incapable of holding a conventional pocket.

I think Russell should treat every pass play like he is in the two minute offense and when he hits his drop he should throw the ball immediately. How is it that he only does that in the last two minutes of each half? It is a beautiful thing to see, but we rarely get to see it.

You're not going to like this answer:

Maybe because he's doing what he's told to do in those situations.

Maybe he isn't and he is looking for a "something better" that doesn't exist to the detriment of the team.

 

[drdiags]

I remember the TD Wilson threw to Rice against the Jaguars before halftime. It was nice anticipation and a throw that required Wilson to trust the Sydney would go after the ball in the endzone coming across the width of the field. It never looked to be in trouble of being intercepted and was a great throw.

The first thing Pete asked Wilson as he came back to the sideline after the play was why did he make that pass? Did he know Rice would make the adjustment. Normal coach stuff but that told me that if Wilson was going to take risks he was going to be called on it and has to be considered whenever he tries to make a play. Not sure that is going to allow Wilson the free reign he might need to progress. Pete was this way with Matt for half the season they were together, so it isn't just a young vs old vet thing. Its just how Pete wants things to be.

Brees did get replaced in San Diego, probably because of his height, but he wasn't the elite QB he has become. And it most likely took a progressive HC in Payton to allow him to prosper.

Wilson may become what Brees is, most likely not but I don't know what the future holds as far as future HCs and OCs. Wonder what he would look like in a Chip Kelly offense or a Norv Turner offense?

 

[mrt144]

Brees got replaced in SD because of his shoulder injury, full stop.

 

[mrt144]

There is no way any defensive player should be running free towards our qb unless they have us outmanned, and those times create the mis matches needed in the passing game.

Sometimes chances need to be taken and this staff needs to come up with some NEW plays incorporating a moving pocket because they are incapable of holding a conventional pocket.

I think Russell should treat every pass play like he is in the two minute offense and when he hits his drop he should throw the ball immediately. How is it that he only does that in the last two minutes of each half? It is a beautiful thing to see, but we rarely get to see it.

You're not going to like this answer:

Maybe because he's doing what he's told to do in those situations.

Maybe he isn't and he is looking for a "something better" that doesn't exist to the detriment of the team.

If RW isn't treating every passing play like he's in the 2 minute offense, you think it's mostly RW just being...selfish? uncaring? lazy? unmotivated?

He's not Jay Cutler.

 

[Hawkpower]

There is no way any defensive player should be running free towards our qb unless they have us outmanned, and those times create the mis matches needed in the passing game.

Sometimes chances need to be taken and this staff needs to come up with some NEW plays incorporating a moving pocket because they are incapable of holding a conventional pocket.

I think Russell should treat every pass play like he is in the two minute offense and when he hits his drop he should throw the ball immediately. How is it that he only does that in the last two minutes of each half? It is a beautiful thing to see, but we rarely get to see it.

You're not going to like this answer:

Maybe because he's doing what he's told to do in those situations.

Says who?

Have we had a coach come out and say: Russ looks like garbage at times because thats what we want?